I would appreciate some help in understanding the college DH rules and how it differs from MLB (American League) rules. Specifically on how it applies to the use of a two-way player who might come off the field and pitch.
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quote:Originally posted by birdman14:
I would appreciate some help in understanding the college DH rules and how it differs from MLB (American League) rules. Specifically on how it applies to the use of a two-way player who might come off the field and pitch.
Not enough time this morning. The MLB rule takes a paragraph. The NCAA rule takes two pages. In college the pitcher can DH for himself...it goes on from there.
You need a whole college semester to really learn the NCAA DH rule...
I understand what you are both saying (perhaps the same reason I am asking the question). So, I will ask specific questions.
My son is a two-way player who typically starts in the field at a position and comes in and closes games. There are times when he is pressed to get properly warmed up coming into games. I wanted to explain a scenario that I thought I saw the other day that could help him with this (not sure I got all the details correct).
He was playing against another college team and in the top of the 8th inning, the 2B (who is also their closer) came out of the game and was announced as the DH, while the DH went in and played 2B. The "new" DH warmed up in the bullpen and came into the top of the 9th as a pitcher. Now, maybe I missed something, but is this a correct use of the college DH?
In another situation, my son is not in the starting line up and comes into the game in the 4th inning, as a pitcher, in a game where the DH is being used. He pitches through the 9th inning and during the time he is in the DH comes to bat for him twice. In the bottom of the 9th the team he is playing against, removes the starting pitcher, a lefty, and brings in a right-handed pitcher. Son bats lefty and is announced as a pinch hitter for the 3B in the bottom of the 9th, as he comes up 2nd that inning. DH goes to 3B. Does this sound correct? I thought this was odd. How can you have it both ways?
My son is a two-way player who typically starts in the field at a position and comes in and closes games. There are times when he is pressed to get properly warmed up coming into games. I wanted to explain a scenario that I thought I saw the other day that could help him with this (not sure I got all the details correct).
He was playing against another college team and in the top of the 8th inning, the 2B (who is also their closer) came out of the game and was announced as the DH, while the DH went in and played 2B. The "new" DH warmed up in the bullpen and came into the top of the 9th as a pitcher. Now, maybe I missed something, but is this a correct use of the college DH?
In another situation, my son is not in the starting line up and comes into the game in the 4th inning, as a pitcher, in a game where the DH is being used. He pitches through the 9th inning and during the time he is in the DH comes to bat for him twice. In the bottom of the 9th the team he is playing against, removes the starting pitcher, a lefty, and brings in a right-handed pitcher. Son bats lefty and is announced as a pinch hitter for the 3B in the bottom of the 9th, as he comes up 2nd that inning. DH goes to 3B. Does this sound correct? I thought this was odd. How can you have it both ways?
quote:He was playing against another college team and in the top of the 8th inning, the 2B (who is also their closer) came out of the game and was announced as the DH, while the DH went in and played 2B. The "new" DH warmed up in the bullpen and came into the top of the 9th as a pitcher. Now, maybe I missed something, but is this a correct use of the college DH?
No it's not. Once the DH went in to play 2nd, the DH is terminated. The DH, now F4, remains in his batting slot. The pitcher now bats in the former F4 batting slot. The former F4 cannot reenter the game. He's done. I haven't read the 2nd scenario yet. I'll get back to you on that.
quote:Originally posted by birdman14:
In another situation, my son is not in the starting line up and comes into the game in the 4th inning, as a pitcher, in a game where the DH is being used. He pitches through the 9th inning and during the time he is in the DH comes to bat for him twice. In the bottom of the 9th the team he is playing against, removes the starting pitcher, a lefty, and brings in a right-handed pitcher. Son bats lefty and is announced as a pinch hitter for the 3B in the bottom of the 9th, as he comes up 2nd that inning. DH goes to 3B. Does this sound correct? I thought this was odd. How can you have it both ways?
This one is almost the same scenario as the first one I described. It's also illegal in your game. The DH enters defense as F5 and remains in the same batting slot. The DH is now terminated. Your son now bats in F5's slot. With that said, this move is not allowed while on offense. The pitcher cannot pinch hit for a defensive player. It would be a projected substitution. I could be wrong. What say you senior guys? I just started college ball this year and I'm still trying to figure out the DH rule.
Forest has it.
What level of college ball was this? It's hard to believe experienced conference umpires allowed these situations to occur.
It's equally odd that experienced NCAA coaches didn't know better.
What level of college ball was this? It's hard to believe experienced conference umpires allowed these situations to occur.
It's equally odd that experienced NCAA coaches didn't know better.
quote:Originally posted by birdman14:
He was playing against another college team and in the top of the 8th inning, the 2B (who is also their closer) came out of the game and was announced as the DH, while the DH went in and played 2B. The "new" DH warmed up in the bullpen and came into the top of the 9th as a pitcher. Now, maybe I missed something, but is this a correct use of the college DH?
I'm reading that the opposing team was visiting. Is that correct?
quote:Originally posted by birdman14:
In another situation, my son is not in the starting line up and comes into the game in the 4th inning, as a pitcher, in a game where the DH is being used. He pitches through the 9th inning and during the time he is in the DH comes to bat for him twice. In the bottom of the 9th the team he is playing against, removes the starting pitcher, a lefty, and brings in a right-handed pitcher. Son bats lefty and is announced as a pinch hitter for the 3B in the bottom of the 9th, as he comes up 2nd that inning.DH goes to 3B. Does this sound correct? I thought this was odd. How can you have it both ways?
The pitcher can pinch-hit for the DH and become the DH. Your son could not have legally hit for F5.
quote:Originally posted by Jimmy03:
Forest has it.
What level of college ball was this? It's hard to believe experienced conference umpires allowed these situations to occur.
It's equally odd that experienced NCAA coaches didn't know better.
Jimmy, this is D1 Atlantic 10 baseball. Just as you stated you cannot believe it, I can't either.
I'll give you another one that occurred this year. Son starts the game as the DH. His team makes 3 pitching changes during the game. In the bottom of the 8th, he becomes the 4th pitching change, and as the DH, enters the game as the pitcher (going from a 10 man lineup to a 9 man or back to P/DH). As the P/DH he gets one out, then the coach decides to make another pitching change. He wants to keep the DH (going back to a 10 man lineup), but is told he CANNOT do this and the entering pitcher must bat in the spot.
Son"s team later loses the game in extra inning and his spot comes up in the top of the 10th with the pitcher forced to bat.
After the game the coach receives an apology phone call from the umpire association about the situation.
Mistakes are made... From the lowest levels to the highest.
quote:Originally posted by birdman14:
I'll give you another one that occurred this year. Son starts the game as the DH. His team makes 3 pitching changes during the game. In the bottom of the 8th, he becomes the 4th pitching change, and as the DH, enters the game as the pitcher (going from a 10 man lineup to a 9 man or back to P/DH). As the P/DH he gets one out, then the coach decides to make another pitching change. He wants to keep the DH (going back to a 10 man lineup), but is told he CANNOT do this and the entering pitcher must bat in the spot.
Son"s team later loses the game in extra inning and his spot comes up in the top of the 10th with the pitcher forced to bat.
After the game the coach receives an apology phone call from the umpire association about the situation.
Mistakes are made... From the lowest levels to the highest.
When a P/DH is removed as pitcher, the coach is required to tell the umpire if the pitcher will remain as DH before the coach reaches the dugout, otherwise the P/DH is removed as both. Sounds like your son's coach knew the rule.
quote:Originally posted by dash_riprock:quote:Originally posted by birdman14:
I'll give you another one that occurred this year. Son starts the game as the DH. His team makes 3 pitching changes during the game. In the bottom of the 8th, he becomes the 4th pitching change, and as the DH, enters the game as the pitcher (going from a 10 man lineup to a 9 man or back to P/DH). As the P/DH he gets one out, then the coach decides to make another pitching change. He wants to keep the DH (going back to a 10 man lineup), but is told he CANNOT do this and the entering pitcher must bat in the spot.
Son"s team later loses the game in extra inning and his spot comes up in the top of the 10th with the pitcher forced to bat.
After the game the coach receives an apology phone call from the umpire association about the situation.
Mistakes are made... From the lowest levels to the highest.
When a P/DH is removed as pitcher, the coach is required to tell the umpire if the pitcher will remain as DH before the coach reaches the dugout, otherwise the P/DH is removed as both. Sounds like your son's coach knew the rule.
Unfortunately the umpires did not...
At a decent level of D1 the umpires should know the rule, but I can't fault them too much. The NCAA DH rule is one of the most convoluted pieces of **** ever written.