Did I make a mistake?

quote:

Originally posted by INshocker:
95% of coaches do not care about grades. If you can be eligible in college, then you are good to go. I believe an honors program is great for your son. Academics are important for life after baseball, but they have little effect on a college career.

When my son sat down for the first time with a college coach the first thing out of his mouth was "what are your grades? We have limited time to follow kids and we are not going to take a risk on you not making it, keep your grades up" It was a D1 school ranked between 25-50. The top kids don't need to worry about them but everyone else does.

BOF: My point was that if you are a blue chip player (you throw 95+, etc.) the coaches could care less what you do in the classroom as long as you are eligible. For the "average" college baseball player, yes, it is important that you maintain a decent GPA although a great one is not necessary. The coaches just want as little headaches as possible.

quote:

Originally posted by INshocker:
BOF: My point was that if you are a blue chip player (you throw 95+, etc.) the coaches could care less what you do in the classroom as long as you are eligible.

Not sure where you draw that conclusion. I know of an eligible blue chip 95+ pitcher who no one would sign, he got drafted, attended JUCO and then signed as a draft and follow.

My son threw 90's and the first thing they asked for was his GPA, not ERA. Coaches can't afford any longer to sign players who may not remain eligible. Things have changed even since he was in school a year ago with the new APR. The reason being, once you get there, they have more important things to do than watch over you like a babysitter, that's the problem. They want responsible players who can manage their time well, attend class and make good academic decisions. This is even harder to achieve if the school doesn't have academic support. You do not have to be an A+ student, but you do have to have a competitive GPA to get the scholarship.

Besides most throwing 95+ aren't going to set foot on campus anyway.

SAT and ACT tests are flawed. Just like any test of that nature, it's not about what you know, but how good you are at taking those types of tests. Some parents spend years and lots of $$ (as in the article) sending their children to classes on how to prepare for the test, that gives those with limited means less of an advantage.

I was just stating....I do personally know many blue chippers that ended up going to big schools despite their academics. The whole point behind my argument is that these players have to be eligible coming out of high school. If they aren't eligible, then I agree with you and few colleges will take a chance on them as I suppose the pitcher you know was.

INshocker,
IMO, those were the days when a coach could take a chance and give little money. Eligibility for D1 schools meant that you had to be eligible for the clearinghouse, you didn't have to be eligible for admission requirements.

With 25% minimum scholarship for most of his players and set roster limits, I doubt that many coaches (especially at the larger programs) will now take in a player who might barely sneak in, or struggle to stay eligible. I have known some players who signed with top programs, by draft time, now with lower grades, had been advised to sign rather than come to school or took the JUCO route.

As far as the coach having two players who are equal in talent the player with the better grades may or may not get the spot. Lot of it now has to do with awarding scholarship money. It's now like trying to buy a home, one house may be more expensive or nicer than the other, but the financial terms and final offer will determine which one you will buy.

The post was about a parent asking if he/she had given bad advice to their player regarding taking more difficult classes in HS but having a lower GPA. Absolutely no way was this bad advice. The coach is looking for a player who can prove himself on the field and in the classroom. There is more weight, IMO, put on his decision to go with a player who accepts challenges on and off the field.

The bottom line for a player looking to play college ball is academics first, particularly with the new rules---the safer the player is academically the better off he is

TPM: You don't have to tell me the rules. I was actually the student athletic advisory rep for our baseball team, so I am familiar with all of the requirements.

I am still telling you that if you have a guy that is eligible going into college, a coach will gamble because if he stays eligible the player has a chance to be an all-american type player. He can do more good than bad.

If you read my reply to the parent I told him to put his kid in the honors classes. I was in honors classes in high school and there is a real benefit, I believe, in it if you can handle it.

I am not giving the rules, am giving my opinion based on how things have changed even the last few years.
What does being the student advisory rep have to do with it? Did you help in the recruiting process?

I was just wondering about the statement that college coaches WILL gamble on a player on the bubble (maybe some will and some won't) and that they could care less what a player does in the classroom. I never found that to be the case in son's recruiting, ever, all cared VERY much how he performed in the classroom and we as parents would never advise him to bite off more than he could chew. His GPA was just as important as his velo and performance in the process.

A parent's opinion only, the ideal situation is to match one with another. I see no value in placing a player in a program where he might have to struggle academically or struggle in the field.

Sometimes when a player knows it will be tough his game both in the classroom and on the field improves because of more effort being put into it

Each school has to be certified by the NCAA every x number of years and as a rep, we had to be able to answer questions about all kinds of different rules and topics related to the NCAA and our athletic department. I was just stating I know about the new set of rules.

That may be true with your son, but do you think players like Mike Pelfrey were in college to get grades? I can tell you with my experience they weren't. They were there to up their draft status and that is it.

That is like telling me somebody like Eric Gordon and OJ Mayo went to college to get an education. If you believe that you are crazy.

Coaches are paid to win, and if they can get a player that almost guarantees them wins, you better believe they will be on the roster.

Inshocker.
I happen to know of a player who went to college to help up his draft status and grow up in college. He also went to college to get most of his education and worked real hard on and off the field. He cared just as much about how he did in class as on the field and he knew he would be eventually drafted. Don't make assumptions that all players motives are the same and don't make assumptioms that college coaches don't care how their players do in the classroom.

This is NOT what the discussion was about. It is about coaches caring about a players grades and being eligible and remaining eligible. If their players don't, they lose scholarships. I know more players that went in caring more about baseball than school and came out academic scholars, and drafted.

Most learn and realize that going to school is very important, it's called reality.

TPM: When did I EVER say all player don't care about their academics? Do some? Yes...Do some also not? Of course.

I am not making assumptions that coaches don't care about how their players do in the classroom. Do some want to see their kids succeed? Yes Do some mostly care just because it keeps their players eligible? Yes

Most do realize schools is important, but there are those players that have been fed their entire life they are going to be big time baseball players (or basketball or football) and some of those kids could honestly care less about school. That is reality.

quote:

Originally posted by INshocker:
BOF: My point was that if you are a blue chip player (you throw 95+, etc.) the coaches could care less what you do in the classroom as long as you are eligible.

Ok let's go back to wehat I addressed as we are getting off track here.

I do not agree with the above statment.

I'm sorry TPM if you don't believe it, but it is true. College sports are a business and that is how these coaches make their livelihood. If they lose, they get fired. That's as simple as it can be put. Having a player that is great and barely eligible is going to help them keep their job.

I never said I didn't beleive it. I said I don't agree.
I'll bet if you asked most parents of college players they will tell you that coaches DO CARE about their grades. They have to care, not only will they get fired if they don't win they will get fired if the NCAA takes away scholarships.

I wouldn't let my player go play for a coach who didn't care about how he did in the classroom. JMO.

BTW, thank you for educating me regarding college sports being a business, I had no idea!

TPM: I am a big advocate of getting the most out of your education. I always did well in school and my advice to this post was to continue with the honors programs. I forget what led us to the path we are on now, but I just wanted to point out that some people just don't care about their grades, they are just there to play sports; same with coaches. That was my only goal. Just like, as I'm sure you know, in the recruiting process some coaches don't always tell the truth. Being the business that it is, people will do almost whatever it takes to win.

Inshocker,
I was only responding to your statement.

The HSBBW is for sharing information regarding making your HS team, getting a scholarship to college and perhaps pro ball. As a member for many years, I always advocate going to college for your education first, if perhaps you increase your chances to be drafted, that's a bonus.

In reality everything you have said may be true, but the reality is that in order to increase your chances of gaining a scholarship to any school (no matter the talent level) doing well in the classroom is very, very important.

In my own players situation, being a prospect at the time of recruiting, I do beleive that his talent AND his high GPA gave him more opportunities than those of his friends who had talent but always put baseball first and didn't fair as well in the classroom. The first thing asked when coaches called was how he did as a student. So in making that statement, it shows that it is an important to them, as they need to know if getting that player in and helping him stay eligible is going to be a struggle. Most don't want the hassle anymore, because there are very many fine players out there that can help them win, without the hassle. More and more talented players opt for college first. I do beleive that our baseball players of today are much more aware of the need to perform in the classroom and that is because their parents are more aware of the fact that their superstar MAY not end up on a milb or MLB roster.

This is not to take away from any player that decided to give up school and to go play pro ball first. That was their decision but in reality MOST players in HS do not have that opportunity to choose. So for here, it's our responsibility for those who have been down the path (player or parent) to encourage the importance of doing well in the classroom.

As far as playing for a coach who has a winning program, my son's head coach is adament about school. In fact the first words out of his mouth during his yearly first day speech is that you are there to gain a degree. He has this thing for beleiving that doing well off the field brings you success on the field. Every 3 weeks he reviewed reports regarding your classwork, class attendance and if you missed required study hall. One year almost half of the team made the ACC academic honor.

But despite all of that, most players who enter college, whether just to extend their baseball playing days, to pay for their education, or try to improve their draft slot, realize that there is life after baseball and they do begin to seriously think about what they might do OTHER than play baseball. Even those who know they will end up with lots of bucks after 4 years, do very well in school (I think David Price was an honors student). My son's teammate was 4th overall pick last year and he left with a 4.0+, highest on the team. He knew he would be drafted and drafted well, why did he bother to work so hard in the classroom?

TPM's comments are very well put. In fact, let's take this one step further. Consider how important college is, consider all of those players, drafted as juniors out of college, who elect to return during the off season to obtain their degrees. Those numbers are increasing rapidly. In today's world, a college education and degree mean everything, even if you make it to the big leagues and have the opportunity to play for several years. You still need to have the business acumen (translation: education) to manage/invest all of your money wisely.

no11,
The reason for returning in the off season, it's sometimes pretty easy to figure out once you are in the situation where you might be headed. Although players do not want to give up that opportunity, unless they hit the bonus jackpot or make ML salary, they realize they will need to be ready to compete and live in the real world if necessary. Most of son's teammates drafted have gone back and graduated. And I think that good coaches realize this, most of their players will not be the Mike Pelfry's of the world. Bad example, IMO so they need to make sure they accomplish what they came for, a degree. If that doesn't happen, the coach wasn't doing his job. It's about winning, yes, but also about winning AND having your charges get educated.

Even being a good student, not sure what would have occured if he didn't have a HC who cared about him on the field and off.

BTW, many HC's get bonus' from their bosses if their team GPA is a certain average as well as games won and post season play, or going to Omaha. That must be important if given that option.

I work with 3 young boys (yes boys) age 19-20. All three didn't do well in HS and now making a few bucks a week. One played a sport but his grades prevented him from a scholarship. I am on their case everyday to go to the local JUCO or trade school to at least start their education. They are realizing they really won't have too many options if they don't.

I told my husband whatever happens, we are lucky, our son got most of his education paid for and a nice cushion if things don't work out to finish one year of school (plus that is paid for by MLB). No matter what the future holds (a college program paying for it or MLB) he has great options.

TPM and no11: I agree with both of your statements and I am a college graduate with a overall 3.7 G.P.A. Believe me, I understand the importance of an education. I also believe it is important to do well in high school to increase your chances. How you do in school reflects a lot of time what kind of person the player is...it says a lot about a person that takes great pride in the classroom.

My only point was there are those people out there that are just there to up draft status (in all 3 big sports).

I don't want anybody taking what I say and translating it into "school doesn't matter" because I believe it does.

Thanks for the clarification as to your statment.