Digital Video Camera Suggestions

Baseballguy,

I'm no expert however I would suggest that you find a video camera that can shoot in 30 to 60 frames per second. This will alow you to break down just about anything frame for frame.

A good place to start looking is with the CNET Camcorder Reviews

Hope this helps

A serious question to ask yourself is how do you intend to use the video. If you eventually want to seek out software such as RVP (Rightveiw Pro) for analysis of the swing then I'd take those requirements into consideration. I just purchased that program and along with a good video camcorder, it can be amazing what you can do. JMHO!

FlippJ (a webster here on the HSBBW) would be a good person to talk to about the video. You probably know all this but generally speaking the "digital video camera" will also be used to play back your video until you transfer it to another medium (like a DVD or a computer hard drive). Unlike the old VHS units where you would use the camera to record on a tape and then “pop” the tape into a VHS player, the digital camcorders today use a variety of digital storage mediums. They use mini disks to mini DV tapes to self contained hard drives to memory cards. There are some exceptions but for the most part the unit is also used to play back your stored images until you go through what can be a time consuming transfer process. I use a Sony Handycam mini DV digital camcorder that does a good job for me. It comes with a small hand held remote that allows me play back at varying speeds or slow to a frame at a time. I can record the image, hook a USB cable to a computer or A/V to a TV and then play back frame by frame. I think the cost was about $300.00
Fungo

Thanks to everyone so far. Great info and lots for me to think about.

CoachB - thansk for the info on Rightview Pro. I checked out their website....which version did you go with?

Fungo....as always, great info.

JerseyDad - thanks for the info on where to read reviews on the various cameras!

New question: What kind of zoom would I need to shoot from...let's say, 70-100 feet away (some fields don't allow for great photog positioning)?

To answer the zoom question first. I would try to find one with a 10x to 20x OPTICAL zoom. The high powered "digital zooms" create a lot of distortion in the picture. My Sony D-8 has a 20x optical that works just fine.
Now, for your original question...
...there are also options like those that record straight to the DVD media (mini DVD camcorders). Once you "finalize" the disc, it can play right in a DVD player, but they can be a pain to edit with, if you plan on compiling highlights.

Fungo

quote:

There are some exceptions but for the most part the unit is also used to play back your stored images until you go through what can be a time consuming transfer process.

That's my problem, I can get the equipment.
But don't alway's have the time to transfer.
So I have a lot of MiniDV tape's that need to be put on DVD.
and I can see many more in my future.
Someday I'll have to make the time, Are should I say a week are 2.
EH

JT,
These are the "exceptions" I was talking about. Are the Mini DVDs re-recordable? Do you have to finalize them in order to play them in a DVD player and does that "finalization" make them to where you cannot re-record?

TheEH,
I bought a stand alone DVD burner (Sony VRD-VC20) unit last year that makes transferring your VHS, or digital video to DVD a snap without a computer. You simply hook up your camcorder, or VHS player, directly to this unit. It has a variety of different hook-ups --- USB, S-Video, ilink, and A/V ports. It burns the DVD in real time so a 1 hr tape will transfer to DVD in 1 hr. You cannot edit your material during transfer but it does allow a speedy means of dumping your digital videos and old VHS tapes to DVD.

I've got the same DVD burner that Fungo has and it works just great! My video camcorder is a Sony Handycam Digital 8 DCR-TRV480.It has a 20X optical zoom and a maximum 990X digital zoom which has worked great for all of the many types of videos that I have made with this camera.

I chose this particular model because it both plays and records on Hi8 tapes (since it records digitally the recording time is reduced to 1 hour on each tape rather than the 2 hours that are standard on Hi8 tapes.) It allows me to not only play back my vast collection of Hi8 tapes recorded on my old Hi8 camcorder, but I can also use this camcorder to transfer my old Hi8 and my new digital8 tapes to DVD using my Sony stand alone burner. This combo has worked great for me for a couple of years now.

It came with software to use with my computer but I haven't seen the need to try to go that "high tech" as yet. I consider myself somewhat "technically challenged" and I have not had any problem using this camera or DVD burner. I would recommend them to anyone.


Ann

There is a big advantage to using a camera that records directly to a dvd. I have a SOny Digital 8 and Sony mini DVD. I prefer to use the mini dvd camera as long as I am not recording something that won't fit on one disc.


DVD, mini DVD advantages:

1. Don't need to download the video via firewire to make a copy or edit, you just pop the disc into the computer to download. (with the digital 8 I have to find the "end time", rewind, then play at real time speed to download)

2. When using the camera for playback, DVD "scenes" are much quicker to access/search then "scenes" on a digital tape in the camera.

3. Don't need to hassle with editing software to create "scenes" if you are taping a game for a coach etc, you just pull the disc out of the camera and hand it to the coach, saves a lot of time. (i.e. its very helpful to be able to use the skip scene button on a dvd player remote)

4. Rewriteable Mini DVD's are available and all dvd's can be re/viewed on the camera before "finalization."

If I were buying another camera I might consider a full size dvd as the quality mini dvd recording times are about 30 minutes while full size recordable dvd's are about 1 hour. Of course the mini dvd camera is much smaller and uses less power then a full size camera.

Typical Recording times needed:

Freshman football game 15-20 minutes
Varsity basketball game 30 - 40 minutes
S****r games 60 - 90 minutes

just like full size dvd formats not all computers or dvd players will recognize every mini dvd format. However I have only run into a few compatability problems with rewriteable mini dvd disc playback on dvd players or computers.

CollegeParent,
Good post and some good points to ponder. Do we go with hi8 tape, miniDv, large DVD or miniDVD??

I was faced with that before I bought and did some research. Most reviews I read were not high on the DVD camcorder. Most saw them as more trendy and somewhat as a gimmick. Of course I also understand these critics are professional photographers and they like to control the camera from the time they turn it on until the final edit. David Kender, managing editor of camcorderinfo.com, points out that DVD camcorders are designed for convience and not control. As he put it and I quote: DVD camcorders are, let’s face it, designed for convience, if you set aside the gimmick factor. DVD camcorder buyers shouldn’t be looking for lots of control, as the medium, with its editing constraints, fundamentally works against control.
Besides I still have a bad taste in my mouth from my old Sony Mavica that recorded directly to the floppy disk. While it did record an image on a disk, it was a far cry from “photography”. More like just “taking pictures”.
Fungo the Fotographer

I, too, have the D-8 Sony and love it. Seamless transfer to the computer via the firewire cord. I have also used the mini-DVD and it is a chore to edit, as you have to have a couple of special programs to convert the files so you can edit.

Although not directly mentioned, I would definatly NOT base my video camera purchase based upon the camera's ability to take still pictures. If you want to take quality digital stills buy a decent Nikon or Cannon digital SLR that has a quality autofocus motor. You won't ever get high quality stills from a video camera no matter how good the sensor

CollegeParent,
I agree with you 100%! Stills and video are like apples and oranges and I didn't really base my video purchase decision on my past bad experiences on a still camera. I do use (as you recommend) a Canon digital SLR, the Rebel XT. I also carry around on a daily basis a little Nikon Coolpix that is a fantastic mini digital still camera. I seldom use the video function on the Coolpix but in a pinch it will store about 1 hour of video on a 2GB SD card.
Fungo

This thread is well-timed, as I've just begun my search for a new camcorder. Has anyone been using one of the newer 30GB hard drive, high definition cameras from Sony?

College Parent,
I appreciate your comments on the Sony Mini DVD camcorder. I bought one also, and have recorded dozens of baseball and softball games. I can easily replay the DVD disc prior to "finalizing", but after finalizing, neither my Sony DVD player or my Mac computer recognize the disk. Oh and the camera playback doesn't work after finalizing either!
So I have hours of unfinalized DVD's and would love to edit them and record to full sized DVDs. Any software and hardware suggestions?
Many Thanks
Trainscout

Wow! Thanks to all who have offered opinions, info, etc. My head will be spinning for a while! Now, I am beginning to realize just how little I know about video cameras!

Guess I better print out everyone's responses and take them with me to my local electornics store!

Thanks, everyone!

I haven't seen any mention of frame rate. Does that mean everyone thinks the standard (30 or 32 fps?) is adequate? Is that adequate for doing video analysis? Personally, I'd like a higher frame rate. But I don't want to pay the high price of a professional camera. Anyone know of an end consumer camera with a little bit higher frame rate?

Fungo, stupid question here, but can you save the mini DV's onto your computer's hard drive to save them for possibe editing and such very easily?

This topic comes up at a great time for me, too, because I'm now in the market for a new digital camera after my house was broken into this afternoon. Fortunately all that was taken was 2 digital cameras, an mp3 player, and very little cash. The idiot(s) were dumb enough to pass up 2 laptops and numerous other small valuables. The thief(s) were nice enough to even lock the door on their way out after coming in from a window somehow.

Anyhow, I'm thinking of forgeting about getting another digital camera since many or most camcorders take stills and I'm just starting high school coaching this spring after finishing school last spring.

What would anybody else here suggest for a guy on a tight budget (as close to $300 as possible) and a year old lap top computer? I'm looking for something that will allow me to easily transport video/images from camcorder to computer at as low as a cost as possible.

quote:

Originally posted by trainscout:
College Parent,
I appreciate your comments on the Sony Mini DVD camcorder. I bought one also, and have recorded dozens of baseball and softball games. I can easily replay the DVD disc prior to "finalizing", but after finalizing, neither my Sony DVD player or my Mac computer recognize the disk. Oh and the camera playback doesn't work after finalizing either!
So I have hours of unfinalized DVD's and would love to edit them and record to full sized DVDs. Any software and hardware suggestions?
Many Thanks
Trainscout

I am not a computer expert but I'd first make sure that I am using the right dvd discs and that the format that will play on your other equipment. I have not had any trouble replaying -R format mini dvd's on my e-machine or DVD player (a recent purchase)but it it didn't work on my really old dvd player.

I would guess that you need an upgrade to your DVD drive and player however the fact your finalized discs won't play on the camera is odd. If the disc's aren't the problem perhaps your camcorder is defective or you missed a step on the finalization?

I would get out the manual and make sure you have purchased the proper discs. -R is a far more popular format then rewriteable and should be compatible with more dvd players.

My brother bought a high-end Sony DVD camcorder a little over a year ago, just before Christmas, and he video'd for hours. All those great memories were lost when he tried to finalize the video. He has a different video camera now. I bought a low-end Sony mini-camcorder and have been very satisfied. I think the camcorders are designed to match the frame rate that TV's are designed to operate with - around 27-30 frames per second. Frankly, I never re-use a tape again. They aren't that expensive and you can just save them and go buy yourself another value pack. I have not looked at batting frame by frame, but you can see all you need to see with the pitching at 30 frames per second. The only thing that will not be caught is the final accleration of the hand down and through. You can usually catch the last moment with the ball in the hand up above the shoulders - and the next thing you see is the hand way down. However, you can see everything else.

While HSBBW sometimes serves up goofy baseball advice, this may be the best place on the web to learn about sports photography. Every six months one of these threads springs up and before I know it, I'm going for the Mastercard to buy new equipment.

I too would like to learn more about frames per second rate of video equipment. My cameras have all recorded at 30 fps. 60 fps would make it possible to measure pitching speed by counting the number of frames a pitch takes.

Would also like to hear more about HD cameras (Oh, my aching credit card)

By all means, continue...

Just did a very cool thing with video of a couple of son's at bats from last HS season. I downloaded software that will take my video and converts it to a format for his video ipod. He know can view his at bats, we can share them with his hitting coach, etc. We plan to add at bats from each game this season. If nothing else it is fun to see at talk about each at bat with him.

gimages -
What software did you download to format for the iPod?

Problem with the hard-drive cameras...
...apparantly you have to use their proprietary software to edit, as the files are in a different extension (.mod). Here is some information I found on the JVC model:
http://www.videohelp.com/forum/archive/t314663.html

Thus, you may be better off using a DV Tape-based model to bring your files into your computer and edit.

quote:

proprietary

When I see that word associate with a tech product, I usually find myself out on a limb at the mercy of the manufacturer.

After playing around with the JVD hard drive unit today, you CAN save the file with their software as an mpg1 file, then load the saved file into whatever editing software you want. It works, but it is a shame to have to use the extra step.

baseballguy,

Here is the site

http://www.download.com/AVS-Video-Converter/3000-2194_4-10193885.html

You can download a trial version. I am still playing around with the software. It is tons of phone to add the video to the ipod. Let me know what you think.

With the strides high definition has made recently, anyone use a HD camcorder successfully to make good analysis videos?

Software suggestions?

Thanks!

I have a sony mini-DV camera the 500 series and It has been a great buy. Along with this free software I capture many clips of my son and also use the V home edition. But this is a great free program to use capture clips and very esy to use. WINDV at WINDV

Good luck and make sure that your camera has a firewire connection. Probably one of the most important features for video transferring. Good luck!

quote:

Originally posted by Roll-it-up:
With the strides high definition has made recently, anyone use a HD camcorder successfully to make good analysis videos?

Software suggestions?

Thanks!

I just picked up a Sony HDR-SR5 without really doing a lot of homework. That might have been a big mistake. It has an internal hard drive, but getting the video onto other media seems to be cumbersome. A Blue Ray DVD player will be needed.

That said, the picture quality is awesome! The 10X zoom could be improved on, though. Unless you really need a new camera, you might want to wait until they come out with stronger lenses.

Remember, this is a first impression.

Thanks for the input. I don't have a camcorder currently but don't want to be immediately behind the times since HD is coming on so strong.

Infidel - you indicated 10x zoom is not enough. Do others have that experience? I think all the HD camcorders I've looked at have 10x.

Having fun!

quote:

Originally posted by Roll-it-up:
Thanks for the input. I don't have a camcorder currently but don't want to be immediately behind the times since HD is coming on so strong.

Infidel - you indicated 10x zoom is not enough. Do others have that experience? I think all the HD camcorders I've looked at have 10x.

Having fun!

I haven't used the camera at the ballfield, yet. I have an older camera that had 20X optical zoom. I like to max out the zoom when I can.