Dirty Baseball

Somewhere a long time ago...

Is that Cobb?

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Get him a Heavy Duty Equipment operator's license and teach how to come back into first with authority...






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standball- I am very surprised to hear about this happening at the 13u level. When I was that age, I don't think I even knew how to intentionally spike someone, let alone have the physical coordination to be able to maintain that kind of foot position while still catching/tagging. However now that I am playing in college, things like this happen on a daily basis. It is not necessarily morally right or justifiable in any circumstance, but "dirty baseball" as you call it is part of the game. If I were your son, I'd have done the exact same thing.

quote:

Originally posted by standballdad:
If these were older kids, that first baseman would get a baseball in the earhole next at bat.

Guys that do that stuff in football get a fist to the &*%$#.

Understand its part of the game, just hard to swallow seeing 13 yr olds trying to maim other 13 yr olds.

Instead of diving, go back feet first. Oops, was that your foot? Sorry.

quote:

Originally posted by standballdad:
I saw a particular play in my sons 13U travel game this past weekend that infuriated me. Son is on first base for the third time and the game is close. He had stolen 2nd and 3rd earlier in the game so they knew he was running. Pitcher attempts to hold my son at first with pick off throw. Son dives back and I see him rubbing is right forearm. I figured he had scraped in on the ground. They threw there 6 times in the scenario before he stole 2nd. after the game I asked how his arm was and he showed my several deep scratches on his forearm some were bleeding. He told me the first baseman was putting his right foot in front of the bag with his spikes up so that my son could not get to the bag without running into his spikes. Son tells him to keep his foot down, player responds with a no. Son on other 5 attempts comes back hard with helmet in players knees. Has anyone else experienced this? I understand playing the game hard, but too me this stuff does not belong in the game. If these were older kids, that first baseman would get a baseball in the earhole next at bat.

He stole base twice so they are going to be on him like white on rice.

If he was encountering a problem why didn't he tell his base coach what was going on.

Did anyone take care of his injuries when he returned to dugout?

Yes, 13 year olds can play dirty but that pitcher who threw to first 6 times is probably not going to make it to 15.

My son is pretty tough, did not mention it to the coach, he had on Under Armour with the long sleeves since it was a cold late afternoon game. Did not realize what had taken place until other team was gone and we were walking to the car.

quote:

Originally posted by standballdad:
My son is pretty tough, did not mention it to the coach, he had on Under Armour with the long sleeves since it was a cold late afternoon game. Did not realize what had taken place until other team was gone and we were walking to the car.

It's not unusual if you are playing a higher level of travel ball. Just shy of 14 my son was catching, while protecting the plate spiked on purpose, the player was ejected.
Again why didn't he tell his first base coach what was going on?

Coach was shorthanded that day and dads are not allowed on the field so another player was the first base coach. My son is not one to complain or wine during the game. He probably did not really understand how dirty of a play this was, he was just ticked off it was happening to him.

You are saying that they would not allow a dad to stand in as coach but allowed a 13 year to coach first base? Where was the umpire?

I am just finding some of this hard to understand.

Perhaps it's just not as bad as it appears.

The team he plays on is coached by paid coaches, that is why I have him on this team. The organization he plays for has several teams of various ages. There policy is to not allow dads on the field for games or practices. Trying to remove the "DaddyBall" issue. All parents on this team pay for coaches to coach our kids, not one of the other dads. Only one plate umpire, like I, he probably could not tell what was going on at first other than there were a lot of pick off attempts. Like you I found this hard to believe but trust me it is exactly what happened.

standballdad,

You pay, yet not enough coaches for a game and only one umpire? Did the 13 year old get paid for coaching first base?

No wonder it was dirty, no one was minding the game!!!

What exactly are you paying for?

I don't mean to get on you, but I just don't understand some of what goes on these days.

Dang TPM, do you have to call every single poster out. Do you have to question everything a poster says on here. You seem to be doing that a lot lately.
Enough already!

Have him go back feet first. It will stop it after the 1B gets spiked in the shin.

As 3B coach, I always announce it so the umpires will expect it.

quote:

Originally posted by Danny Boydston:
Dang TPM, do you have to call every single poster out. Do you have to question everything a poster says on here. You seem to be doing that a lot lately.
Enough already!

I am asking him some questions, am I am not allowed to do that? I don't get some of this stuff. I am not asking questions that will benefit me so what's your problem. Would you pay for someone to coach your son and then not have the coaches at a game? People say the travel ball fees are high, but there is one umpire?
Come on now, explain this to me. redbird gave a great suggestion, for free, yet this parent is paying for coaching?

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
standballdad,

You pay, yet not enough coaches for a game and only one umpire? Did the 13 year old get paid for coaching first base?

No wonder it was dirty, no one was minding the game!!!

What exactly are you paying for?

And yea..he could've gone back feet first to send a message.

I don't mean to get on you, but I just don't understand some of what goes on these days.

If I were paying for big bucks for travelball, I'd want to know where those paid coaches are too. And why only one umpire. This sounds more like a typical HS JV baseball game where there's only one head coach who is typically a varsity assistant coach and one umpire.

quote:

Originally posted by Danny Boydston:
Dang TPM, do you have to call every single poster out. Do you have to question everything a poster says on here. You seem to be doing that a lot lately.
Enough already!

Well, if it wasn't TPM I would have asked the same question!

Wow, just asking a simple question, this organization is extremely well run by some very good coaches, just happens that we were short one coach on that particular day. In addition there is nothing wrong with having a player coach 1B. This is not a bad thing as it teaches young players to stay involved in the game. The game was a league game not a tournament so only one umpire assigned. The posting here has Segwayed into a whole different topic. Not sure what the confusion is here. Another kid pulls what I call a dirty play and ask what others think about it. I am not criticizing the coaching staff or the umpire. It is so easy to blame everyone else for these things but in the end it was the kid at 1B that should be scrutinized, not the absent coach, not the 13 yr that was coaching, not the umpire not the league for only providing one (1) umpire and especially the organization my son plays for. I pay coaches to keep dads off the field from trying to coach my son. Not that all dads are bad (there are many excellent coaches that are dads) but many have agendas because there son is on the team. I find it well worth my money to pay a coach that has a more objective and neutral view on a players ability, thus all players earn the spots on what they have done on the field and practice. Before all you dads jump on me, I am a dad that coached my son through LL (12) and thought it was time to hand him over to someone else to further his development. In all those years I saw my share of Daddy ball and wanted to get away from that environment.

Standball, nobody is questioning why you are on a team where no dads are coaching. A lot us are in that position as well, myself included. The point is, if it is high dollar travel, why not two umpires. Rarely has my son played a game with one umpire and he is 16. This includes going back to the first year of kid pitch.

I dont think your son thinks this is as a big of a deal as you do, but as parents we always blow things out of porportion. I would just tell him to keep playing his game. Stealing second and third was retalliaton enough. Or like someone said, just go in feet first and catch some shin. Should solve the problem.

Yeah, I was more upset than my son was. He has moved on. I was just curious as to what others thought and have experienced. The team he plays on, plays a couple of tourneys a month where they do provide 2 umpires, but they also play in a competitive youth league that they play on Sundays to supplement the weekends where there is no tourney. I'm cool.

We have played high level high cost travel ball on teams just as you say. Sometimes everyone is shorthanded and it may be because the team needs to play to work some kinks out, even short an ump or a coach, better than sitting at home. Not worth getting worked up over.
I think your son will figure this one out for himself, like character developement. Maybe he will think not such a big lead next time after 2-3 base steals so he doesnt have to dive??? Sounds like a quick smart player, he'll work it out. We've seen dirty ball in 13U before, kids will be kids.

Sorry for all the questions, however, often times there is much more info to the story than what is posted and in this case there was.
If there was a store full of candy and the owner left the door unlocked, whose fault would it be if kids came into the store and took the candy? You blamed the other player but I don't see it that way, it was the lack of supervision that was at fault. Kids are kids.
My suggestion to anyone, just because you are paying someone to coach your son, make sure they know how to coach and instruct (regardless of being a dad or not). Sometimes we accept mediocrity because we think that is the right thing to do.

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"Sometimes we accept mediocrity because we think that is the right thing to do."

I agree TPM, but the question is: "Did we learn from our mistake?"






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No problem TPM, the coaches are excellent, I have been in the game along time both as a player and a coach and from what I have seen they know what they are doing. I do not think additional supervision would have prevented this. Maybe it would have prevented it the next time around but not the initial contact. Even though I get a little testy at times, I still appreciate all the comments.

Oh no problem here too, I had seen that you mentioned that your son's coaches are former D1 players.
Not sure that always means better.

JMO.

I grew up playing in the sandlots of queens and brooklyn where actions like this were everygame events--since no major blood seems to havebeen spilled here so le
ts play on

Yes playball it is, got a double header today down in south Cal. Life is good!

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
I grew up playing in the sandlots of queens and brooklyn where actions like this were everygame events--since no major blood seems to havebeen spilled here so le
ts play on

You got that right, interesting that some of MLB best players didn't even play organized ball (as we know it) as kids.

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Yes indeed! Let's go! Throw your stuff in the back!






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I'm having a hard time picturing the first baseman with his foot in front of the bag with the spikes up? How does one accomplish this?

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I'm having a hard time picturing the first baseman with his foot in front of the bag with the spikes up? How does one accomplish this?

I had the same question. Unless you stand with your heel on the bag and your sole off the ground, I don't see how the first baseman could be doing what is described. Unless he is deliberately stepping on the returning runner's arm.

Woody, leave the Vega alone! I had a 1972 Chevy Vega GT in 74 that I drove all the way to California and back. I loved that car! Mediocrity would be the Chrysler K cars!

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They were beauts alright! Ask George Costanza, he'll tell you...



...this one was owned by John Voight!




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LOL!!!

We played a team at 14u who had a first baseman that would catch the ball and then hit the runner with a very hard tag, I'm not talking about a quick tag but blows to the head and face. At one point my son was on first and on throws to first he got whacked on the head first, the next throw and tag was more like a punch to the face that drew blood under the eye. So on the next throw to first, (Still the same batter) my skinny little runt of a son came in so hard he knocked down the first baseman who was twice his size, first baseman missed the ball and he advanced to second. I was a little surprised that the Umpires didn't say anything about their player or my son coming in hard.

Since this is a message board, here's my message.
1. Woody, my high school girl friend had a green 74 vega and when my 65 dodge coronet wasn't in top form that vega rocked.... I mean it was awesome.
2. You can't help it if you show up and they are using one ump.
3. Sounds like a good organization with paid coaching, enjoy.
4. Your kid got a lesson that there are jerks out there... Focus on how good you can do and be and not on how bad they can be.

quote:

I'm having a hard time picturing the first baseman with his foot in front of the bag with the spikes up? How does one accomplish this?

Instead of having his right foot next to the side of the bag that faces home plate, he had it in front of the bag that faces 2b and when my son dove back he lifted his foot up blocking the bag with his spikes. I can show you the scabs along his right arm where he scratched and cut him.