Lets us all dial it back a bit.
That article is very vague as to why the kid didn't make the team. If the kid tried out and was rejected because he simply didn't perform as well as the kids that made the team then I don't see any problem with the coach cutting him. If the parents are suing for that reason then it is frivolous and teaches their kid absolutely nothing. But the article doesn't really say that.
If the kid was rejected out of hand simply because he has a disability and that disability won't affect his play on the field then there is grounds for a suit under the Americans with Disability Act.
Overcoming these conditions is inspiring as long as the kid actually earns the spot. Giving it to him for no other reason other than that he is disabled is as wrong as excluding him for the same reasons.
Here's a local story that ran yesterday. The girl is a swimmer who set a personal best in the 50 yard freestyle, as the cameras rolled. The others in the race were 4X faster than she was. Some would think she doesn't belong in the same pool with them. 
(yes, that's Beesley Reese, former Seahawk)
NJ Swimmer Inspires Others
For disadvantaged athletes, it can be a struggle just to compete on the same level as your peers. But, a senior swimmer is defying the odds in South Jersey, inspiring others with her positive attitude and unmatched resolve. Kathlyn Walker entered this past weekend’s Gloucester County Championship swim meet with one goal in mind. “My fastest time is a 1:20:02, so I’d like to beat that,” said Kathlyn Walker, Delsea High School Swimmer.
(yes, that's Beesley Reese, former Seahawk)
NJ Swimmer Inspires Others
For disadvantaged athletes, it can be a struggle just to compete on the same level as your peers. But, a senior swimmer is defying the odds in South Jersey, inspiring others with her positive attitude and unmatched resolve. Kathlyn Walker entered this past weekend’s Gloucester County Championship swim meet with one goal in mind. “My fastest time is a 1:20:02, so I’d like to beat that,” said Kathlyn Walker, Delsea High School Swimmer.
I personally don't think there is a problem if there is an open slot and no one else gets hurt by bringing a kid on board. It is inspirational that someone with a disability overcomes that disability to compete.
But......
If a kid bumps another kid off the team specifically because of that disability that isn't right. As I said earlier I simply don't have enough information from that article to decide what the reasons actually were for that kid not making the baseball team. At the high school level ballplayers should earn their spot on the team and to my you don't earn that spot by kicking someone else to the curb.
But......
If a kid bumps another kid off the team specifically because of that disability that isn't right. As I said earlier I simply don't have enough information from that article to decide what the reasons actually were for that kid not making the baseball team. At the high school level ballplayers should earn their spot on the team and to my you don't earn that spot by kicking someone else to the curb.
[quote]If the kid tried out and was rejected because he simply didn't perform as well as the kids that made the team then I don't see any problem
what a novel idea
what a novel idea
In a situation like this why not make the kid a manager? There are many ways to keep a kid around even though he can't help your team win on the field. Think of the great lessons your other players can learn from a situation like this? Think about what it would mean to this young man? Your not keeping him and cutting someone else. Your cutting the players that can not help you. Your keeping a young man for a bigger purpose. There are some things more important than baseball. In fact there are many things more important than baseball. There is nothing more important than helping a young man in a situation like this. JMO
I don't think the issue is making him part of the team in some capacity. The suit is about being on the roster. The parents pulled the "he's been playing since he was nine" card.
Bottom line is if you weren't good enough to make the team or physically or mentally unable to hack it, you should get cut. If it's because of a disability, don't be stupid enough to say it was a disability but rather he couldn't do the things on the field to make the cut. It won't be necessary to bring up a disability that will hinder his chances to be good enough to make the cut. Of course the catch-22 would be a coach getting sued for putting a disabled kid in a position to get injured knowing he has a dsability even if he doesn't mention it in fear that a disability act suit would be started. I just don't get it., With programs like special olympics and buddy ball, this stuff should never be an issue.
Our high school roster has 25 kids on it. How many do you think are going to see game time? Maybe 14 or 15. How would it have hurt to allow him on the team? Sometimes doing the right thing means teaching more then baseball in the dug out. How could that ever be wrong?
Trade, why didn't you just ask the Tourettes player's father to help you coach and stick with his kid in the dug out so that every one won? With your strong religious beliefs I would think they might include some kindness towards the less fortunate. It's not just your written words I object to but the window into who you are that you show us too.
Trade, why didn't you just ask the Tourettes player's father to help you coach and stick with his kid in the dug out so that every one won? With your strong religious beliefs I would think they might include some kindness towards the less fortunate. It's not just your written words I object to but the window into who you are that you show us too.
quote:Originally posted by calisportsfan:
Our high school roster has 25 kids on it. How many do you think are going to see game time? Maybe 14 or 15. How would it have hurt to allow him on the team? Sometimes doing the right thing means teaching more then baseball in the dug out. How could that ever be wrong?
Trade, why didn't you just ask the Tourettes player's father to help you coach and stick with his kid in the dug out so that every one won? With your strong religious beliefs I would think they might include some kindness towards the less fortunate. It's not just your written words I object to but the window into who you are that you show us too.
You ever heard of "3 strikes your out?". Father was given 3 chances to make it right. I was the only coach on the team and I had to be on the field, make the line up. I didn't have time for some possessed kid whose father and mother (now divorced) couldn't raise their kid right.
I also worked the mounds, made sure the field was chalked and one year my wife and I ran the concession stand. I was more than happy to donate my time and effort to the league and had all the patience in the world for kids who wanted to learn and were well mannered.
The good thing is that I'm done with league ball. (At least I hope.)
quote:Originally posted by tradosaurus:
You ever heard of "3 strikes your out?". Father was given 3 chances to make it right. I was the only coach on the team and I had to be on the field, make the line up. I didn't have time for some possessed kid whose father and mother (now divorced) couldn't raise their kid right.
I also worked the mounds, made sure the field was chalked and one year my wife and I ran the concession stand. I was more than happy to donate my time and effort to the league and had all the patience in the world for kids who wanted to learn and were well mannered.
The good thing is that I'm done with league ball. (At least I hope.)
Geez, how on earth did you end up doing ALL of that, not one parent offered to help you with the team? Did you keep the book too? The league is probably better off.
Trad - I think your local Little League owes you a huge debt of gratitude - I cannot fathom why no one would help you - either coach, groom the field, or work the concessions. Not very neighborly of your neighbors.
Sorry the child with the affliction he couldn't control was so poorly mannered. Also, I'm sure the community is also sorry that the 10 year old boy who was afflicted with tourettes was so poorly mannered that he was run off his team by the sole coach who volunteered to work with the team - must be a shortage of dads who want to spend time teaching baseball to the kids in your part of the country.
Did you win the league that year?
Too bad his baseball experience ended because you were overworked or because you couldn't hear yourself think or because he didn't mind his manners.
I suspect, however, that most of what you espouse is made up to get a rise out of me. No one could be such a perfect caricature of an ignorant, mean-spirited, narrow minded person.
Sorry the child with the affliction he couldn't control was so poorly mannered. Also, I'm sure the community is also sorry that the 10 year old boy who was afflicted with tourettes was so poorly mannered that he was run off his team by the sole coach who volunteered to work with the team - must be a shortage of dads who want to spend time teaching baseball to the kids in your part of the country.
Did you win the league that year?
Too bad his baseball experience ended because you were overworked or because you couldn't hear yourself think or because he didn't mind his manners.
I suspect, however, that most of what you espouse is made up to get a rise out of me. No one could be such a perfect caricature of an ignorant, mean-spirited, narrow minded person.
quote:Originally posted by bballdad2016:quote:Originally posted by tradosaurus:
You ever heard of "3 strikes your out?". Father was given 3 chances to make it right. I was the only coach on the team and I had to be on the field, make the line up. I didn't have time for some possessed kid whose father and mother (now divorced) couldn't raise their kid right.
I also worked the mounds, made sure the field was chalked and one year my wife and I ran the concession stand. I was more than happy to donate my time and effort to the league and had all the patience in the world for kids who wanted to learn and were well mannered.
The good thing is that I'm done with league ball. (At least I hope.)
Geez, how on earth did you end up doing ALL of that, not one parent offered to help you with the team? Did you keep the book too? The league is probably better off.
Usually I could find a parent to keep the book when we were home team. Oh, did I also mention I was on the baseball board?
Actually that one year was the most hectic. The next two years I had coaching help. And no to the goosyegg I think I won 4 games that year but at least everyone got to play (except the possessed kid).
tradosaurus- The young man had a neuropsychiatric disorder. He was not possessed. I am a college athlete who is an epileptic. If I were to suddenly have a seizure in the dugout, would you as the coach deem me unable to cope with my peers because of such an incident? Is that the work of the Devil? Or is it a legitimate disorder, much like Tourette's, that is controlled medicinally?
As for the OP, in my opinion there is most likely much more involved in this particular situation. I absolutely 100% wholeheartedly agree that a young man should never be cut from a team just because of a disability. But if he is unable to physically perform to the coach's desires, if given a fair opportunity to showcase his skills, then in my mind there is no discussion and certainly no lawsuit.
As for the OP, in my opinion there is most likely much more involved in this particular situation. I absolutely 100% wholeheartedly agree that a young man should never be cut from a team just because of a disability. But if he is unable to physically perform to the coach's desires, if given a fair opportunity to showcase his skills, then in my mind there is no discussion and certainly no lawsuit.
The Americans with Disabilities Act provides that persons with disabilities are not to be discriminated against, and that if accomodations can be made to allow such persons to perform the "essential functions" of the position, (without an "undue burden" on company), then they must be made. The law does not require a company to give preferential treatment, nor does it require significant and necessary rules to be changed to accomodate someone with a disbility.
As a lawyer that practices in this area, (on both sides of the docket), I do not see how the player has a legal basis for case as no accomodation will make him a player better than others selected, and he has no right to preferential treatment.
As a lawyer that practices in this area, (on both sides of the docket), I do not see how the player has a legal basis for case as no accomodation will make him a player better than others selected, and he has no right to preferential treatment.
quote:Originally posted by calisportsfan:
Our high school roster has 25 kids on it. How many do you think are going to see game time? Maybe 14 or 15. How would it have hurt to allow him on the team? Sometimes doing the right thing means teaching more then baseball in the dug out. How could that ever be wrong?
Trade, why didn't you just ask the Tourettes player's father to help you coach and stick with his kid in the dug out so that every one won? With your strong religious beliefs I would think they might include some kindness towards the less fortunate. It's not just your written words I object to but the window into who you are that you show us too.
Several reasons:
a. If there are 25 spots that means there is a finite number and that means that another kid is going to get cut from the squad. Now all this feel good stuff is fine as long as it isn't your kid getting cut but what would you say to your son if he was cut from the team to make a place for a 'feel good' story.
b. What does it tell the kid that has the disability? That if you don't get your way throw a fit, threaten a lawsuit and people will automatically cave to accomodate you? How does that teach this kid anything? All it teaches is that you don't really have to work for your future, all you have to do is whine and complain about a disability and people will make excuses for you.
c. That kid knows that he wasn't good enough to play but was stuck on the roster to prevent some kind of lawsuit. How do you think his teammates will treat him? Teenagers are much more perceptive than a lot of us give them credit for and they have an intense sense of what is fair and what isn't fair and will treat this kid accordingly. They may say he is on the team but they wouldn't treat him like a teammate.
Look, if there is an open spot on the roster and no one is there to take it then by all means offer it to the kid. If he is the 25th best player trying out for a roster spot on a 25 man team then he makes the team. but under no circumstance should another boy be bumped off the team because someone thinks a kid's disability trumps the ability he should show on the field.
More info pulled from multiple news stories:
"While Barker was willing to accept that he not participate in games during the traditional spring season, he and his lawyer claim that the program's unwillingness to let him participate in practices, and summer and winter games violates the Americans With Disabilities Act."
"Coaches told him more than a year ago that he was barred from playing on the junior varsity team because of his disabilities."
I can understand not letting him practice with the team during the season if he didn't make the team. The issue is what are the stated rules of the program for summer and winter? Does the kid have physical limitations creating a danger for him?
Here's a key phrase we would need more information regarding:
"Despite his physical limitations he's played baseball since he was 9, according to court documents."
What are the limitations? Is he in danger of getting injured?
The court date is February 29.
"While Barker was willing to accept that he not participate in games during the traditional spring season, he and his lawyer claim that the program's unwillingness to let him participate in practices, and summer and winter games violates the Americans With Disabilities Act."
"Coaches told him more than a year ago that he was barred from playing on the junior varsity team because of his disabilities."
I can understand not letting him practice with the team during the season if he didn't make the team. The issue is what are the stated rules of the program for summer and winter? Does the kid have physical limitations creating a danger for him?
Here's a key phrase we would need more information regarding:
"Despite his physical limitations he's played baseball since he was 9, according to court documents."
What are the limitations? Is he in danger of getting injured?
The court date is February 29.
You either can play or you can not. sooner or later that concept will kick in. Unfortunately today it is getting later and later because of what is going on.
quote:Originally posted by Aleebaba:
The Americans with Disabilities Act provides that persons with disabilities are not to be discriminated against, and that if accomodations can be made to allow such persons to perform the "essential functions" of the position, (without an "undue burden" on company), then they must be made. The law does not require a company to give preferential treatment, nor does it require significant and necessary rules to be changed to accomodate someone with a disbility.
As a lawyer that practices in this area, (on both sides of the docket), I do not see how the player has a legal basis for case as no accomodation will make him a player better than others selected, and he has no right to preferential treatment.
Maybe I’m just some kind of a dummy, but I don’t see what this kid is asking for that would be considered preferential treatment. From what I can see, he isn’t asking to play games, which is the entire purpose of trying out. In essence, he’s only asking to practice with the team. If that’s in fact the case, what would he be getting that was considered preferential treatment, since there was no chance he’d ever be given playing time over another player.
quote:Originally posted by Wklink:
..a. If there are 25 spots that means there is a finite number and that means that another kid is going to get cut from the squad. Now all this feel good stuff is fine as long as it isn't your kid getting cut but what would you say to your son if he was cut from the team to make a place for a 'feel good' story.
…
As far as I know, there’s no limit on the number of players on a HS roster, so why would it mean another kid had to be cut?
quote:Originally posted by Stats4Gnats:
Maybe I’m just some kind of a dummy, but I don’t see what this kid is asking for that would be considered preferential treatment. From what I can see, he isn’t asking to play games, which is the entire purpose of trying out. In essence, he’s only asking to practice with the team. If that’s in fact the case, what would he be getting that was considered preferential treatment, since there was no chance he’d ever be given playing time over another player.
If he's only asking to practice with the team and gets injured, who's liable? Potential student athletes take physicals every year so they need to be cleared to tryout and make the roster. To just practice with the team would be some sort of preferential or different treatment if the purpose is to make the team thru a regular tryout like every other player has to go thru.
If he wants to be part of the team, why not a team manager where they can do the stats and help out the coach without being on the field. They get a varsity letter and they're part of the team.
quote:As far as I know, there’s no limit on the number of players on a HS roster,
Until they change the game only 9 can play at one time. As a coach there is a number where you should limit your roster. that is just common sense. what is really interesting is the title of this forun
Disabled student sues for right to play high school baseball
Is playing baseball a right of every high school student?
CAN THIS KID PASS THE REQUIRED, FOR ALL, PHYSICAL
EXAM--- ALL OF THE FUSS MAY NOT BE NEEDED
EXAM--- ALL OF THE FUSS MAY NOT BE NEEDED
quote:Originally posted by zombywoof:
If he's only asking to practice with the team and gets injured, who's liable? Potential student athletes take physicals every year so they need to be cleared to tryout and make the roster. To just practice with the team would be some sort of preferential or different treatment if the purpose is to make the team thru a regular tryout like every other player has to go thru.
If he wants to be part of the team, why not a team manager where they can do the stats and help out the coach without being on the field. They get a varsity letter and they're part of the team.
If the kid is sitting in class and falls off his chair and gets injured, who’s liable. And how do you know he wouldn’t pass the physical? You people want to make this to be something about preferential treatment, and that’s not at all apparent to me. Everyone’s just guessing.
Please tell me how many HS baseball teams you have direct knowledge of have “managers”. I’ve been pushing for that for about 15 years as a way to get better scoring and statistics, but I’ve never yet heard of a coach doing it. I’d love to communicate with any HS baseball coach who’s done it.
quote:Originally posted by Will:…
Is playing baseball a right of every high school student?
It is if the only reason s/he’s not allowed to is because of his/her disability.
quote:Originally posted by Stats4Gnats:
"Maybe I’m just some kind of a dummy, but I don’t see what this kid is asking for that would be considered preferential treatment. From what I can see, he isn’t asking to play games, which is the entire purpose of trying out. In essence, he’s only asking to practice with the team. If that’s in fact the case, what would he be getting that was considered preferential treatment, since there was no chance he’d ever be given playing time over another player."
I am sympathetic to this view, but what Wklink and other have pointed out is a very real concern too. IF there is a finite number of roster spots (maybe only X number of uniforms, or only so much bus space, whatever), this young man's presence necessarily comes at the expense of somebody else. Likewise, even with "just" practice time at issue, there are only so many reps, and so much of the coaches' time that can be spent with each player, so time spent with this young man also diminishes the time left to be spent with the kids who do play in the games. It is foolish to deny that there is a cost to adding this kid to the roster, even just for practice time.
However, it is also foolish to deny that there may be a very real benefit to adding a kid like this, depending on the kid, and his attitude and effort. I think the downside of giving this kid a position has been overplayed a bit, and the other side of the coin has been underplayed. At most schools, there aren't a lot of real costs to adding a 21st (or whatever, +1 to the normal roster) player to the roster, and there are lots of reasons a coach might pick a "disabled" kid as a 21st or 25th man. Regardless of the "disability" or who might otherwise be picked for that spot, neither is very likely to get into any game, yet the chance of the "disabled" kid setting a good team example for hard work, persistence, and passion for the game is probably a lot greater.
Of course, all of this is fact-less speculation, and it all depends on the program and the kid(s) in question. The fact that this kid's family chose to sue is a pretty big red flag to me indicating he might not be the kind of asset I'm talking about. But, IN GENERAL, I would be looking for ways to be inclusive, not exclusive.
And by the way, I do not think this kid (or any other kid) has a "right" to play baseball, and I thank Aleebaba for providing the forum with the benefit of his legal experience with the Americans with Disability Act.
That said, just because the kid has no "right" to play doesn't mean the discussion should be over. There is a cost/benefit equation here, and one of the "benefits" that should be considered is not all that related to baseball. Allowing this kid to play is a compassionate decision, one that provides him with the opportunity to live a more "normal" life and allows other kids to see him (and others like him) in a more complete, whole, and humane way. It is not all about baseball, all the time.
That said, just because the kid has no "right" to play doesn't mean the discussion should be over. There is a cost/benefit equation here, and one of the "benefits" that should be considered is not all that related to baseball. Allowing this kid to play is a compassionate decision, one that provides him with the opportunity to live a more "normal" life and allows other kids to see him (and others like him) in a more complete, whole, and humane way. It is not all about baseball, all the time.
I'm with you EdgarFan. Baseball should be a vehicle to teach our kids lasting life lessons as not many of them will make their living in the sport.
There is no cap on a high school roster and they usually change year to year. It's a shame for everyone this blew up like it did as the very simple solution would have been for the coach to decide to be inclusive and find things the boy COULD do and focus on that. Let him practice and ask him to do stats from the bench during games...it's not that hard to walk through life seeking to be kind.
Additionally as a parent, I would have much more respect for the coach and appreciate the lesson he was teaching my son about finding ways for everyone to be successful. If my non disabled son got cut and the other boy did not, I would NEVER complain about someone being kind to a kid who will face many more difficulties in life then my own and I would be ashamed of myself if I had raised a son to high school age and he complained.
There is no cap on a high school roster and they usually change year to year. It's a shame for everyone this blew up like it did as the very simple solution would have been for the coach to decide to be inclusive and find things the boy COULD do and focus on that. Let him practice and ask him to do stats from the bench during games...it's not that hard to walk through life seeking to be kind.
Additionally as a parent, I would have much more respect for the coach and appreciate the lesson he was teaching my son about finding ways for everyone to be successful. If my non disabled son got cut and the other boy did not, I would NEVER complain about someone being kind to a kid who will face many more difficulties in life then my own and I would be ashamed of myself if I had raised a son to high school age and he complained.
Nicely stated calisportsfan.
I find it funny when people say they have the "right to..." when in reality they don't. If you want to know what you're rights are then read the Constitution and you will find out what your rights are. In this situation you have the "right" to try out and have the opportunity to prove yourself worthy. IF this kid was given the opportunity to go through a tryout and was cut I don't have a problem with it. IF he wasn't allowed to tryout then there is a problem.
All that being said finding this kid a spot on the team isn't a big deal. Give him a uniform to make him happy, give him a stat book, pick up equipment - whatever. That should be left up to the coach and this kids parents as to what he can / cannot do. It's not that big of deal and it shouldn't be. Allow a kid to be part of something he will never do in their life and teach the other kids something that will hopefully make them better people.
But it's not always an easy thing either. Not every parent of a child with a disability is of the calibur as igball. I've been on many teams where we allowed a child with disabilities be part of us in some capacity. It's never been a bad situation but sometimes parents see this as an opportunity to get a break from their child and leave us with complete responsibility. Or they aren't very dependable themselves and pick their kid up when it's time. Between myself and other coaches I cannot even begin to tell you how many times we have bought these kids meals, gave them rides home or even bought them clothes. I don't think any of us cared one bit nor wouldn't do it again but it can be cumbersome at times.
Overall it's not that big of deal to help out a kid in some way.
All that being said finding this kid a spot on the team isn't a big deal. Give him a uniform to make him happy, give him a stat book, pick up equipment - whatever. That should be left up to the coach and this kids parents as to what he can / cannot do. It's not that big of deal and it shouldn't be. Allow a kid to be part of something he will never do in their life and teach the other kids something that will hopefully make them better people.
But it's not always an easy thing either. Not every parent of a child with a disability is of the calibur as igball. I've been on many teams where we allowed a child with disabilities be part of us in some capacity. It's never been a bad situation but sometimes parents see this as an opportunity to get a break from their child and leave us with complete responsibility. Or they aren't very dependable themselves and pick their kid up when it's time. Between myself and other coaches I cannot even begin to tell you how many times we have bought these kids meals, gave them rides home or even bought them clothes. I don't think any of us cared one bit nor wouldn't do it again but it can be cumbersome at times.
Overall it's not that big of deal to help out a kid in some way.
quote:Originally posted by coach2709:
"All that being said finding this kid a spot on the team isn't a big deal...and it shouldn't be. Allow a kid to be part of something he will never do in their life and teach the other kids something that will hopefully make them better people.
"But it's not always an easy thing either. Not every parent of a child with a disability is of the calibur as igball. I've been on many teams where we allowed a child with disabilities be part of us in some capacity. It's never been a bad situation but sometimes parents see this as an opportunity to get a break from their child and leave us with complete responsibility. Or they aren't very dependable themselves and pick their kid up when it's time. Between myself and other coaches I cannot even begin to tell you how many times we have bought these kids meals, gave them rides home or even bought them clothes. I don't think any of us cared one bit nor wouldn't do it again but it can be cumbersome at times."
This is true not only of some parents of kids with disabilities, but of some parents of kids of all stripes. Coaching is hard, and those who choose to do it should see way more gratitude - they have big hearts. But if having an undependable parent is not a reason to exclude the able-bodied, then it shouldn't (by itself) be a reason to exclude the disabled, either.
In the end, Coach, we agree on this one though. Go in with your eyes open to both the good and bad that might come of this, and try to make an inclusive decision. It's not that big a deal to do that.
Maybe its part of his IEP that he should play a sport
quote:Originally posted by Stats4Gnats:quote:Originally posted by Wklink:
..a. If there are 25 spots that means there is a finite number and that means that another kid is going to get cut from the squad. Now all this feel good stuff is fine as long as it isn't your kid getting cut but what would you say to your son if he was cut from the team to make a place for a 'feel good' story.
…
As far as I know, there’s no limit on the number of players on a HS roster, so why would it mean another kid had to be cut?
I don't know if there is a hard and fast rule but space and cost are always considerations when it comes to fielding a team. You can only have so many places available on the bench for the rumps to rest. Uniforms, equipment and such cost the school district. Our teams are limited to 20-25 boys simply because there is limited space and funds available.
I understand the desire to put the kid on the team and as long as there is no physical reason for him not to practice with the team. I don't know, I have no idea what his athletic physical showed.
I really believe that if one desires to play the game of baseball, no matter what his abilities, he should be allowed to play.
I don't think it's fair for someone to be excluded from anything just because there is a perception by society that there needs to be a certain level of understanding and expertise to be able to function properly in a certain venture.
I would hope that professional sports would include people of all disabilities. We broke the race barrier with Jackie Robinson. I think it's time we broke the disability barrier.
I don't think it's fair for someone to be excluded from anything just because there is a perception by society that there needs to be a certain level of understanding and expertise to be able to function properly in a certain venture.
I would hope that professional sports would include people of all disabilities. We broke the race barrier with Jackie Robinson. I think it's time we broke the disability barrier.
quote:Originally posted by baseballexpert:
I really believe that if one desires to play the game of baseball, no matter what his abilities, he should be allowed to play.
I don't think it's fair for someone to be excluded from anything just because there is a perception by society that there needs to be a certain level of understanding and expertise to be able to function properly in a certain venture.
I would hope that professional sports would include people of all disabilities. We broke the race barrier with Jackie Robinson. I think it's time we broke the disability barrier.
Could you explain this a little more? I'm not sure I'm following you.
***************EDITED TO ADD**********************
Nevermind - I just read your profile and I have a feeling there is very little you can actually add to the conversation.
I don't pretend to know this situation and what the right answer might be (if there is one), but I have been in countless meetings on one side of table across from teachers and educators on the other, discussing special need arrangements.
Thanks to my son I am able to see things very clearly with regards to these type of circumstances. I view the world now as a simple place where you have many people who "get it" and are focused on helping these young people go through life a bit easier and those who dont care and simply have no clue. When I would walk into a meeting to discuss a circumstance if I didnt know who in the meeting was one type or another prior to the meeting, I could pretty much figure it out almost as soon as I sat down.
Ultimately in matters related to education, with all students no matter their circumstance, the conversation leads to discussions about limitations based on scarce resources. A clue to as what type of person you're dealing with is how quickly your conversation focuses on this area.
At the end of the day, for me and my wife, our goal was to find the "diamonds in the rough" who "got it" and with their help build a postive program for our son centered on doable activities and programs.
Others choose to take on the system in almost an obsessed matrydom approach and this road almost always leads to places that include legal threats and letters to the local editor.
No matter how you may feel about this particular situation and its possible affects across our society, my hope is that everyone who comes into contact with a young adult with a disability, is someone who in their heart "gets it" and in their own way, helps makes the road these people travel a bit easier.
Thanks to my son I am able to see things very clearly with regards to these type of circumstances. I view the world now as a simple place where you have many people who "get it" and are focused on helping these young people go through life a bit easier and those who dont care and simply have no clue. When I would walk into a meeting to discuss a circumstance if I didnt know who in the meeting was one type or another prior to the meeting, I could pretty much figure it out almost as soon as I sat down.
Ultimately in matters related to education, with all students no matter their circumstance, the conversation leads to discussions about limitations based on scarce resources. A clue to as what type of person you're dealing with is how quickly your conversation focuses on this area.
At the end of the day, for me and my wife, our goal was to find the "diamonds in the rough" who "got it" and with their help build a postive program for our son centered on doable activities and programs.
Others choose to take on the system in almost an obsessed matrydom approach and this road almost always leads to places that include legal threats and letters to the local editor.
No matter how you may feel about this particular situation and its possible affects across our society, my hope is that everyone who comes into contact with a young adult with a disability, is someone who in their heart "gets it" and in their own way, helps makes the road these people travel a bit easier.
Sports can be important to a students self esteem,health,or a incentive. It may be written in a students IEP that they should play a sport or be a part of a sports team.
I know of a student with a learning disability that could not be benched for getting a poor grade.
Because sports were his ticket to 4 yr school He was given excused absent from school for tavel to out of state weekend showcases and tournaments.
May be this student is being denied a part of his required IEP.
I know of a student with a learning disability that could not be benched for getting a poor grade.
Because sports were his ticket to 4 yr school He was given excused absent from school for tavel to out of state weekend showcases and tournaments.
May be this student is being denied a part of his required IEP.
quote:No matter how you may feel about this particular situation and its possible affects across our society, my hope is that everyone who comes into contact with a young adult with a disability, is someone who in their heart "gets it" and in their own way, helps makes the road these people travel a bit easier.
igball, if I might add just slightly to your wonderful thoughts and expressions, it would be to add our ability to make the road more "fair" also.
In my business life, I actually represent and advise employers on the many of the issues of disability accommodation in the work place.
Over many years of doing this, my observation is that what happens in the work place often reflects what exists within this thread. We make assumptions, and use those assumptions to determine what someone with a medical condition/disability "cannot do."
My experience comes from the work place, and having coached in little league with a player who had plenty of things he "could not do" on a baseball field.
As I have posted before, I learned from a HS coach and his team as they assimilated, supported, and learned from and with a player who's heart attack at age 3 left him severely impaired in the use of his left arm and left leg, but never dampened his love for baseball.
What often is so remarkable and inspiring is what a person with a disability "can" do!!
When Greg, my wife and myself finished 26.2 miles and the San Diego Marathon in 2002, Greg taught us, just as he showed his HS baseball coach and teammates, that his damaged heart, arm and leg were not the measures of what he could do and accomplish, when supported by others who believed in him.
igball, your thoughts are inspiring!
Thank you.
I think the thing that gets lost in all of this is the value that someone can bring to others on the team.
Granted we don't know all of the details pertaining to this issue. However, there have been several cases where teams and people have grown tremendously because they became involved in situations like this. It's not just the person who is disabled, everyone benefits when they figure out a way to help, IMO.
When I do good... I feel good
When I do bad... I feel bad
And thats my religion.
Abe Lincoln 1860
Granted we don't know all of the details pertaining to this issue. However, there have been several cases where teams and people have grown tremendously because they became involved in situations like this. It's not just the person who is disabled, everyone benefits when they figure out a way to help, IMO.
When I do good... I feel good
When I do bad... I feel bad
And thats my religion.
Abe Lincoln 1860