Disappointed? I don't know, should I be?

Not necessarily--- all it takes is a minor foul up in the mechanics to alter the pop time

Nothing to worry about

It's too bad. They were pretty throws too. Nice carry and trajectory, all five throws right on the bag. I was hoping for better times but you're right. Little mechanical glitches can be corrected, at least his arm is getting stronger.

Just for haha's I looked at the E Mass Profiles, and saw something that happens all the time, a kid that threw 75mph was 2.08 and another kid was 71 with a 2.03. Just goes to show that there isn't a direct correlation between velocity and pop time, which there isn't. Transfer, footwork, release, accurate throws, all account for the pop time. Maybe time to get the mechanics up to par with his arm strength.

I would think that velocity has SOMETHING to do with pop times. You say no?

quote:

Just goes to show that there isn't a direct correlation between velocity and pop time, which there isn't.

I hope you aren't a betting person. Because if you are I want to wager a small sum!
Fungo

Well there is some correlation, obviously if you throw 47 mph you're not going to throw a 1.95. But there are alot more factors to pop time then there is to pure arm strength or velocity. IMO pop time is more important then velocity for a catcher anyway.

Fungo...if that's a true direct correlation, then how does the kid throwing 4 mph faster have a slower pop time? There is some relation for sure, but it's not just about velocity.

BB23, you said there was NO correlation. If my kid had thrown 73 MPH rather than 77 MPH, I'm pretty sure his pop time would have been slower, but maybe I'm missing something.

quote:

there isn't a direct correlation between velocity and pop time,

quote:

There is some relation for sure, but it's not just about velocity.

WAFFLE WAFFLE!!

Common sense should prevail here. This ain’t Chinese arithmetic! If a player can throw a 2.0 and then he has an increase in his velocity, then his poptime will improve. This is not saying the player with the highest velocity will always have the lowest poptime. Just as in a drag racing, the highest speed won’t always have the lowest ET (elapsed time) simply because they didn't come off the line as quickly just as all catchers can’t release the ball in the same amount of time. The stop watch starts at the instant the pitch hits the mitt and stops the instant it hits the infielder’s glove at second base. EVERTHING the catcher does from the time he catches the ball until he releases the ball is included in that poptime measurement. But to say there is no correlation between velocity and poptime is ridiculous. Velocity (arm strength) is a very important part of baseball whether we catch, pitch, play outfield, or are an infielder. It is one of the five tools used to measure a baseball player. I guess velocity will always be debated because either you got it or you don’t.
Fungo

Good post Fungo....as always you make good sense. If a young man has velocity, he can be taught to release the ball quicker. If he does not have velocity he may end up at 1st base.

quote:

If a young man has velocity, he can be taught to release the ball quicker. If he does not have velocity he may end up at 1st base.

No it certainly isn't Chinese Arithmetic, but there is some amount of the English language that needs to be understood. When I said there is no DIRECT correlation, that's completely evident based on the 75mph/2.03 and 71mph/2.08. That isn't to say that there isn't an indirect correlation, which clearly there is. Again, if you only throw 47 mph then you won't throw a 1.9, but if you throw 82 then you should, yes should, be better then the guy throwing 72, unless is takes you seven seconds to get rid of the ball, and we have all seen a catcher with a good arm get stolen off like crazy because he can't get rid of the ball.

BB23East,
There you go trying to put syrup on that waffle!

Simply put when it comes to pop times it matters not the velocity of the throw if the catchers mechanics are not good--bad mechanics will negate the velocity

TRHit, I agree 100%!

It could be that the mechanics necessary to generate the additional 3-5mph are what slowed the pop time.

Fungo - Did you get my PM?

OOPS! I looked and did see that I missed it! Sorry ---- I miss a lot these days. Will reply!
Fungo

I was starting to question our relationship.

POP TIME......but by teaching the catcher to release the ball quicker could also affect his velocity, negatively. I'd say that Brad Ausmus has fringy arm strength but he has a consistent release that he can repeat over and over and he is very accurate, most of the time. You don't see to many Johnny Bench's who had 80 arms or even 70 arms.

I'll agree with Holden and a very good post BB23. You probably lengthened the arm to throw which helped with the velocity or you added a step to the pivot.

I've seen some plus arms that threw 2.2 and 2.3 so the arm strength means nothing if you don't have the aptitude to have a consistent release. But its for sure that we sure think we can teach a guy with arm strength to have a quick release. Just doesn't always turn out that way.

I wouldn't be concerned with the pop time. I'd be more concerned with being as accurate as you can be as often as you can because most of the time when its about pop times the catcher forgets about his mechanics and his accuracy and he sacrifices those things for his pop time. I use to hate when the catcher would come in the dugout during a game and ask the coach what his pop time was just after he had thrown a one hopper or a ball down the base line towards first or into the outfield 15 feet high.

Good Luck

swingbuilder

I am totally with you on this--- pop times mean nothing unless you are throwing runners at--it is all about mechanics rather than arm strength and you also need a pitcher who helps you by keeping the runners close to the bag

Poeple put too much stock in pop times, at least for me

quote:

Originally posted by Holden Caulfield:
As the father of a catcher, I agree with TR, although I may be a bit biased.

I pay pretty close attention to SBA/CS stats and it is the rare college catcher that nails runners at greater than a 25% rate. I think this speaks far more to the inability of pitchers to hold runners than to the catcher's pop time.

It's all about what happens in the game! Agree with TR.

quote:

Originally posted by Holden Caulfield:
I pay pretty close attention to SBA/CS stats and it is the rare college catcher that nails runners at greater than a 25% rate.

I'm surprised to hear that!

quote:

Originally posted by Holden Caulfield:
I think this speaks far more to the inability of pitchers to hold runners than to the catcher's pop time.

I just can't wait until my son's playing on a team and at a level where the pitchers are taught and know how to hold runners on, slide step, ect...