Skip to main content

32 replies

Disappointing offer for 2010 LHP at favorite school?

P pitcherparent10+ posts
My 2010 son has wanted to attend the local D1 school since he was a child and this school has been expressing interest in him for a year now. Although, as parents, we would like him to expand his horizons and maybe look at other schools as well, he has convinced us this is the school for him. We did some research on these message boards and more before we went to figure out what would be a fair offer for a player like him. Knowing that the minimum offer would be 25%, and average offer would be 43% (27 players divided by 11.7 scholarships) and a good offer would be 60-65%. Also knowing that pitchers tend to get more than any other players and that good left-handed pitchers maybe a bit more than righties. We went to the meeting with the coaches thinking that it was going to be a done deal. Unfortunately we were surprised when they offered 25%, the minimum. We did not decline but left the meeting to think about it. My first thought was that our college search will continue and we will see what other interest there is for my son by other schools, but they told us that they will be done recruiting for this class probably in the next month. Now there is a sense of urgency to make a decision. Does anyone have any advice?
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

BF baseball fan 0910+ posts
After going through this process....If I were in your shoes I would be thankful that his favorite school is showing interest so early. I would have to guess that the vast majority of high school players do not ever get interest from their #1 dream school.

By all means check out your other options but if this is your 2010's dream school I would give it major consideration, even if the offer is not what you expected.
Last edited by baseball fan 09
ILVBBILVBB1,000+ posts
Without knowing the school, family situation or where you are in the country. I can not give real economic insight.

However, assuming this is an average public school, you are likly talking about no more than $2,000 per year. Less than $10,000 over 4+ years.

If my son had the opportunity to go to his local D1 school, which he had attended games while growing up and have them pay for part of his education, we would have been jumping up and down with joy.

If this is where your son wants to go to school, it makes sense educationally, it is within a family budget (College is not budget friendly); my advice say thank you!

I am now spending $3K to $5K per year in transportation and lodgeing for me to see my kid play ball and for him to go back and forth to school. If worried about the last few dollars of potential scholarship dollars, my son would never have gone to school.

Step back, think about it and find joy in the fact that your son will have an opportunity to play ball at a school that he wants to attend.
Infield08Infield081,000+ posts
Pitcherparent, there may be several reasons why your son was not offered more money:

* The program may not be fully-funded, meaning they don't have the full 11.7 scholarships to give out

* The program may have been penalized by a scholarship or two by the NCAA for having sub-par academic performance

* The program may have a lot of money already tied up in upperclassman players and thus not have any extra money to give to your son

* The program may be trying to save money for a position player or two that it is in dire need of

If you brush aside your initial disappointment and look at the big picture, this sounds like an ideal situation for your son. Think long and hard before you reject the offer. It may be the best offer your son gets!

One tip: you may want to send a PM (private message) to BobbleheadDoll. He might be able to offer you some good strategies for negotiating a higher offer.

Best wishes!
Last edited by Infield08
B BobbleheadDoll5,000+ posts
Maybe you told them they were your #1 choice too many times. Did you negotiate the amount ?
If you negotiate you do stand the chance of losing out but to me there are lots of colleges that will look at a good LHP. I can tell you that most colleges are never finished recruiting and they can always find money for a LHP. My son didn't sign his NLI until 3 weeks before classes start. It was his 2nd choice. The 1st offer was a good one but we negotiated a better one. It took a couple weeks but the coach found the money. Remember that college costs rise an average of 5% every year and there are lots of things we don't anticipate that add up very quickly.
I am not suggestting that you risk your son's attending his favourite college unless you have backup plans and he is prepared to move on.
tychcotychco1,000+ posts
I am going to chime in from a different perspective.

Your player is a 2010 and has really just begun this process. While I don't doubt your child's desire to play for this school, I am guessing he hasn't really looked at other schools to see how he might feel about them.

There is no hurry to commit for a 2010. 25% is a very low for a LHP. Since you feel some trepidation about the offer, encourage your son to explore other schools. I would definitely hold off on an answer. Go visit other campuses, email and call other coaches, see what interest there is out there. Kids have limited life experience and the best school for your son might still be out there.

I am sure this school would love to lock down a 2010 LHP for 25%. It is way too early for him to take that offer, in my opinion.
BF baseball fan 0910+ posts
Here is a true story from a few years ago.....

A top pitcher met with his dream school coach, a regular participant in Omaha, and was made an offer. The player replied that he had another visit scheduled and would need to wait until after that visit. The coach (big name, big program) took the offer piece of paper off the table and tore it and put it in the trash can. The offer was pulled on the spot.

I am sure this is a rare scenario but some of the elite programs believe you should be happy to be invited and they look at it as an insult if you shop around.
observer44observer441,000+ posts
.

I'm all in with ILVBB on this...

...while $'s may be important...I'd be very very leary of comparing %'s...hard to know what the truth is, all that matters is getting your son in the right fit, IMO the money is always important but seconday to fit beyond a certain point..

IMO...Big picture?...Chance to play for Son's dream school? Close to home? Baseball $?...

Priceless...

Cool 44
.
justbaseballjustbaseball10,000+ posts
pitcherparent - You sure bit into a big-time topic for one of your early posts! Wink Many will be interested in this discussion I think.

There are many thoughts regarding your question(s) and I'm sure you will hear a very wide breadth of opinions on this. Our son was fortunate enough to play for his longtime top choice in college, so I think I can guess a lot of what you and your son are thinking/feeling.

Anyways, here are some thoughts:

* Is this a fully funded program? That is, are they using the full 11.7 scholarships across the team...not all D1s are fully funded. Some, including the University of Oregon (in their first year back as a D1 program), are funded at a lower level.

* For a 2010, I would find it hard to believe that the school is nearly finished recruiting that class. That certainly wouldn't be true for our local D1s. They're just beginning to make offers and won't finish it up for over a year from now. Since I have no idea which school you're talking about...I probably shouldn't guess this, but I think they're bluffing.

* I don't think computing an "average" scholarship offer based on 11.7/team is of much use. I think the median number is more useful (that is, what is the guy in the middle of the team getting). My guess (and its only a guess) is that when you throw in the 10-15 kids getting nothing on a 35-man roster that 25% would be about the median (or middle guy). For an LHP that is expected to contribute early in his college career, the median would probably be higher.

* 25%, as you know is the minimum offer above 0%. That means something. Either they believe they can get your son for less because they know he wants to go there or they believe you can easily afford the rest (and they should've made some reference to this). Or...they don't (at this time) consider him one of their top recruits (given, as you point out that he is an LHP...very valuable to any program). There are many college baseball players who get 0% and are superstars, so the 25% alone should not stop you. But if you believe your son is one of the top recruits, they should pay more.

* On the other hand, if THIS is the THE SCHOOL that he would attend if baseball were not a factor, then I personally would be happy to take any amount. Thats for you and your family alone to figure out.

* Have you asked them, "What is your evaluation of my son?" Or has your son asked them the same? How about, "When do you see my son contributing?" And if their projection of him is very high, I wouldn't be totally afraid of asking, "Is there a reason why the offer is 25%?"

* Don't say "no" because your feelings are hurt, unless they're going to stay hurt for a while. This will not be the last time your feelings will be hurt on this road to baseball beyond HS. If, on the other hand, this is painful and it won't go away...and I'm talking about your son's feelings much more than yours...then its time to think twice. If its a non-issue to him and a non-issue financially to you and you're convinced they want him...then it might be time to strongly consider accepting their offer.

Bottom line, only you and your family can answer many of these thoughts/questions. If you decide to accept it, come on back and ask the next question, "What are the +'s and -'s of playing for your 'dream school'?" The answer to that is not so simple either. Big Grin

P.S. It took me too long to write my response and I see others, in the meantime, covered some of the same thoughts. Good luck!
Last edited by justbaseball
B BobbleheadDoll5,000+ posts
A lot of this depends on your son and his personality. Some want to stay close to home and really are not adventurous. Some want to go to another planet and face new adventures. If you know your son is not the type to go off to a strange situation far from home that certainly is a big factor and will limit your options. Money also will be a magor factor for most people. To me fit is easy to find if your son is adventurous.
I would have a good talk wiyh your son and determine what the real appeal of that college is. Is it a real appeal our just an impression that he has carried in his mind because of limited exposure.
You and your son are the only ones who can determine your course of action but 25% is realy cheap for an LHP and TYC said it well. The recruiting has only begun for a 2010.
B BobbleheadDoll5,000+ posts
If you decide to take the risk and negotiate a higher amount, the college funding is not your concern. My sons college I belive only funded half of the 11.7 and his scholarship is a lot more than 65%. He also had a $2000 increase last spring which we didn't ask for.
Personally I think too many people are willing to accept what ever the coach throws their way. You spend years paying for elite BB and possibly lessons to get a mediocre offer. Not happening !
My son didn't even attend showcases and we spent very little on elite BB. We were well in the black in my son's freshman year. He is attending for less than it would cost to go to a loacl college which is under $5000. a year for tuition. he works on campus and gets a free meal plan which is a real bonus. We essentially pay for his apt and entainment.
If his #1 choice offered him a 25% he wouldn't go there. It was his #1 choice because he loves Las Vegas. Funny he loves where he is and wants to live there. We honestly didn't drive him away. In fact he calls home almost every other night.
I am a strong believer that there are many many colleges a kid would love to play ball at and go to school.
This is why it is so important to discuss the perameters that your son sets for college. Location was #1. For your son maybe being close to home is very important. The big question is why ?
H Homerun041,000+ posts
I also agree with JBB's post and ILVBB's point of the additional cost of you and your family going to see him play over the next few years.

Another angle you may want to look besides asking if they can kick in more the first year, but they also may have a lot invested in a few older players, you can ask about getting more money in future years as they may be freeing up some big dollars as they are leaving.
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
quote:
Originally posted by justbaseball:
pitcherparent - You sure bit into a big-time topic for one of your early posts! Wink Many will be interested in this discussion I think.

There are many thoughts regarding your question(s) and I'm sure you will hear a very wide breadth of opinions on this. Our son was fortunate enough to play for his longtime top choice in college, so I think I can guess a lot of what you and your son are thinking/feeling.

Anyways, here are some thoughts:

* Is this a fully funded program? That is, are they using the full 11.7 scholarships across the team...not all D1s are fully funded. Some, including the University of Oregon (in their first year back as a D1 program), are funded at a lower level.

* For a 2010, I would find it hard to believe that the school is nearly finished recruiting that class. That certainly wouldn't be true for our local D1s. They're just beginning to make offers and won't finish it up for over a year from now. Since I have no idea which school you're talking about...I probably shouldn't guess this, but I think they're bluffing.

* I don't think computing an "average" scholarship offer based on 11.7/team is of much use. I think the median number is more useful (that is, what is the guy in the middle of the team getting). My guess (and its only a guess) is that when you throw in the 10-15 kids getting nothing on a 35-man roster that 25% would be about the median (or middle guy). For an LHP that is expected to contribute early in his college career, the median would probably be higher.

* 25%, as you know is the minimum offer above 0%. That means something. Either they believe they can get your son for less because they know he wants to go there or they believe you can easily afford the rest (and they should've made some reference to this). Or...they don't (at this time) consider him one of their top recruits (given, as you point out that he is an LHP...very valuable to any program). There are many college baseball players who get 0% and are superstars, so the 25% alone should not stop you. But if you believe your son is one of the top recruits, they should pay more.

* On the other hand, if THIS is the THE SCHOOL that he would attend if baseball were not a factor, then I personally would be happy to take any amount. Thats for you and your family alone to figure out.

* Have you asked them, "What is your evaluation of my son?" Or has your son asked them the same? How about, "When do you see my son contributing?" And if their projection of him is very high, I wouldn't be totally afraid of asking, "Is there a reason why the offer is 25%?"

* Don't say "no" because your feelings are hurt, unless they're going to stay hurt for a while. This will not be the last time your feelings will be hurt on this road to baseball beyond HS. If, on the other hand, this is painful and it won't go away...and I'm talking about your son's feelings much more than yours...then its time to think twice. If its a non-issue to him and a non-issue financially to you and you're convinced they want him...then it might be time to strongly consider accepting their offer.

Bottom line, only you and your family can answer many of these thoughts/questions. If you decide to accept it, come on back and ask the next question, "What are the +'s and -'s of playing for your 'dream school'?" The answer to that is not so simple either. Big Grin

P.S. It took me too long to write my response and I see others, in the meantime, covered some of the same thoughts. Good luck!

I was going to type out a long response but justbb just hit one out of the park. Excellent insight and analysis!

Since there are some emotions involved in this, I will respond to the emotions and ask some rhetorical questions that do not require an answer but just food for thought....

Does the money really matter? Sounds like a dumb question but what if your son was not an athlete. Would you not allow him to attend this college with a 0% grant from the institution? Is the issue more being able to tell people that he got offered a large amount?

If the money is an over-arching factor on the ability to afford this college, then the only answer is to keep looking and let the coaches know you need a bigger offer to make ends meet. No shame in that position by a long shot.

If money is not the main issue, then you might want to consider the offer. Many coaches will move on if their offer is not accepted in a timely manner (they will let you know what timely is). Also, it sounds like this is where your son wants to play which is very important. Are they a good program and meet his academic requirements? If so, then that may be a fantastic offer. It should not matter what the average kid gets or someone else gets for that matter. I would also not equate the amount with how good your son is. He may be a great player and given their current budget, that may be a great offer.
CT Clint Taylor100+ posts
I have a different concern, especially since your son is an '010. Does the program routinely over recruit? Since this is only a verbal for a very young player, remember, some schools will string the player along and decommit as he nears the signing date. Check the schools track record.
If he verbally commits now, will this deminish other recruiting opportunities?
My son was asked to make a verbal (at camp) to his home state school (my alumni)(his dream school) at the end of his sophmore year and said "no" because the school routinely recruits 15 to 20 players each year.
Turns out that was very bright on his part because the school is 14 players over the limit this year and already has 14 verbals for 09, which could have very easily impacted his chances to be recruited by other schools. Also, after visiting other colleges, his dream school wasn't as magical as he first thought.
As so many on this forum recommended, "Do your homework" proved to be very valuable for us.
Don't rush, enjoy the ride! Time is on your side as a 2010. For what it is worth, my son is also a LHP.
Midlo DadMidlo Dad10,000+ posts
My chief concern is that while recruiting commitments are being made earlier all the time, anyone who tells you that they are almost finished recruiting from the junior class as of October is flat out lying to you. And you should think carefully about whether your "dream" might become a nightmare, if your son commits to play for people who are, as best I can tell, liars.

If someone were to say they could not hold the offer on the table indefinitely, I could understand that, though I would also think that the door would remain open for your son to continue weighing his options for a while yet.

But you're being treated like you're buying a used car. "Better hurry, someone else was looking at it this morning!"

I would respectfully suggest that you (a) keep looking, and (b) dig more deeply for information on this program and the coaches. Look at things like, how many kids transfer out? How do pitchers progress there from year to year?

If you really do like this program, hopefully you can get another offer. Then you can turn the tables on them. As in, "Coach, I have another offer. I would really rather go here, but money is a factor for me and my family. Can you match their offer?"

It is true that most players are fortunate to get any offer at all, much less to be in a negotiating position. But when a LHP is considered worthy of D-I recruiting this early on, to me that's a sign that your son will see lots of interest in due time. And 25% is going on the cheap for a high level LHP. Again, I would suggest you ask around confidentially and see if anyone can tell you what other LHP's have gotten there in recent years. People will help you if you ask.
Midlo DadMidlo Dad10,000+ posts
P.S.

As of early October of his junior year, my son had a "dream school", too. By early November he had learned that things there weren't all so rosy after all. He ended up with another school where he is very happy indeed.

In the meantime, a friend of ours who found out too late had to transfer, and is having to sit out an entire year as a result.

I have no problem with early commitments if everything has been asked and answered favorably and you are very sure. I hope you won't take this the wrong way, but I don't think you guys are ready.
OLDSLUGGER8OLDSLUGGER81,000+ posts
This young man has just entered his Junior year of HS..............he has a Varsity season, and especially a summer season to gain valuable development and exposure before his senior year.

Maybe negotiating, as was mentioned, is for later. I would think every recruit deserves to experience the July 1 initial call date from programs. He may get several which provides leverage because we all know coaches talk about players.

I would assume this player is very good to garner a D1 offer about a year earlier than the norm. If he is, then maybe things like PG National, ECPS, Area Code are in his future.
Last edited by OLDSLUGGER8
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by Clint Taylor:
Also, after visiting other colleges, his dream school wasn't as magical as he first thought.


I hope that no one missed this sentence.

Very good points so I won't go over them again but a few things.....
I know nothing about the program your son is interested in but LHP pitchers do not get more $$ than RHP unless they throw 90 or above. Being an effective pitcher (LHP or RHP) in HS means nothing at this time, IMO, unless your son is loaded with projection. If that is the case, he won't make it onto the college field anyway because every MLB scout in town will be after him.
The coach is not done for 2010, he most likely could be saving money to pay for a better pitcher out of state. Coaches pay less for instate players unless that player is highly desireable by other programs in that state. As a sophmore, how many other porgrams have offered your son a scholarship?

If this is about money and being insulted, hang it up and start looking at other opportunities. If this is about where your son wants to go to school and play baseball, money should only be one of the considerations in the process.

Folks remember, the player that is now getting 25% most likely would have gotten less (at D1), either be happy with the offer because it's a good fit, or look elsewhere if you think he is worth more.
Last edited by TPM
jerseydadjerseydad1,000+ posts
I would also suggest you really consider what the true cost of education would be, not just the percentage of the offer.

Many of us get wrapped up in the % of an offer however the reality is, if money is a factor in your decision, a lower % at an in state school could still mean less out of pocket cash than from a higher % offer from an out of state or private school.

My son was offered what was considered a "high" offer. But when considering the extra $15,000 tacked on to his tuition because he was from out of state, I'm not sure that those getting 25% on in state tuitions wouldn't be paying less out of pocket than our family.

If money is an issue, it's about how much your cost of education is, not how big a % offer you received. Even if it doesn't sound as impressive to you buddy's to say you got 70%! Just my opinion, but I’m stickin to it.
Last edited by jerseydad
H Homerun041,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by TPM:
Folks remember, the player that is now getting 25% most likely would have gotten less (at D1), either be happy with the offer because it's a good fit, or look elsewhere if you think he is worth more.


We don't have enough information to make broad statements, you know that may not necessary true, he may have been one who could have received more but due to the fact the coach needs to spread the expenses amongst what could be more players, thus reducing some and increasing others.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
Homerun04,
Ok I got ya, let me change that.
The player that would have ordinarily gotten 10%, or 15% or even 20% is now getting minimum 25%. Some still are getting nothing.

That does NOT mean that they are not good players, but in reality, that was the NORM for many players. Most of the coaches money goes to pitchers or top prospects to lure them away from other programs and now because of minimums, those also have been adjusted ( I agree with you on that). Some programs give their pitchers less, and their hitters more. A lot depends on how the coach runs his program. Some programs give nothing and never will (IVY League).

Perhaps the poster could go back to the coach and ask about an academic blend. Although most coaches don't offer academic $$ to very early commits as they still have 2 years and testing left.
One of the drawbacks, IMO, of early commitments.
P pitcherparent10+ posts
My son will be graduating from high school in 2010. He has just started his junior year in high school.

Also the D1 school that made him an offer is fully funded. They said there will be seven recruits for his class. They have had two recruits verbally commit and it sounds like they have made others offers that they are waiting to hear back on. They said it is moving really fast this year.

Thanks to all the input everyone has given us. We are taking it all in and we will be having a family conversation about how to proceed.
S sportsfan5100+ posts
Can I change the question a little?

How early is too early for a 2010 to commit if a good opportunity falls in your lap? Do you take the 1st offer that comes along that fits your needs, or do you wait and see what else pops up?

My son, a 2010 grad, has just received a very, very good offer from a D1 school 10 minutes from our home. He's had a lot of interest from some top programs several hours from our home and I'm sure there will be other offers that come along. But, it would be impossible for them to beat what has been offered from a financial standpoint and difficult to beat what has been described to him as his role on this team. In my opinion, it is perfect, at least for my wife and I ($$$, proximity to our home & playing time/position). The only problem that my son sees is that it isn't a top tier program (SEC, ACC, Etc.). The school is a mid-major that plays in the MAC conference.

The idea of playing at a top school is nice to think about, but is it really worth it? Players are still drafted from conferences other than the SEC & ACC and kids still get a great education.

Sorry, if I rambled some. This process is just very confusing for a 1st timer. You want to point your kid in the right direction but sometimes it not real clear what that right direction is.
justbaseballjustbaseball10,000+ posts
sportsfan - You and your family are really the only ones that can answer your question IMO. It seems as if you're wondering the normal things to wonder.

It is early for a 2010 to commit (but certainly not unheard of), but maybe you just need to gather a little more information.

* Do you know a scout in your area? If so, where does he he think your son's ability will be best served?

* Does your son play for a travel team with a good track record of putting kids in college ball? If so, where does that coach/organizer think your son fits in the grand scheme?

* What about his HS coach? What does he think?

* Any other "experts?" (I talked for many hours with a friend who was an ex-college pitching coach about our son to get a good feel...that conversation evolved over many months as he and I thought hard about it).

* Has your son attended a showcase? What was the feedback from that showcase? I would think if its a PG showcase, you could email them and ask for an honest assessment to help you zero in on the best set of schools.

* Where does your son want to play? Sometimes the school 10 minutes away in a mid-major conference is a boy's dream for a variety of reasons (friends, proximity, the school itself, coaches, etc...).

Seek honest and unbiased information. Once you feel you have it, I think the answers will be much easier for you.
Last edited by justbaseball
C chalkline10+ posts
My son is also a 2010 grad that committed last week. It was his school of choice and a very good offer. Was it early, yes, but we had visited and camped at several of his potential schools. If he had chosen to stay in state, it would have been a less expensive but he is fulfilling his dream of college. Ultimately, it has to be education and baseball.

Add Reply

Post

Membership Required

We're sorry. You must be signed in to continue. Sign In or Register
×
Are you sure you want to remove from your Block List?
×
Loading...
×
When you block a person, they can no longer invite you to a private message or post to your profile wall. Replies and comments they make will be collapsed/hidden by default. Finally, you'll never receive email notifications about content they create or likes they designate for your content.
Note: if you proceed, you will no longer be following .
×
Advanced Search
Advanced Search
Link copied to your clipboard.
×