Discipline - Give In?

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Not sure you have given us enough information... but from what you have given... I would say yes.

Don't start him... 4th inning substitution. And regardless of how he does, after the game, in front of everyone, explain the "reward" you have given this kid, for his self-less dedication to helping the team, cleaning his act up, and his desire to continue to play the game. Otherwise he could walk away, saying look how hard I tried, and for what?

What they never teach us when we become parents, coaches, etc... is that kids thrive on rules... fair ones. When there are no rules, they feel un-loved, with a lack of direction. IMHO, too many parents/coaches thrive on being friends of the kids instead of what their real job is...

We Do Not Lie, Cheat, or Steal. Nor Do We Tolerate Those Amongst Us Who Do.

cadDAD

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Do you believe in second chances? Has your point been made? Will a second chance destroy any team building that has taken place since you disciplined this young man? Only you know the answers to this.

If the kid would otherwise play, I would play him now. Sounds like a great kid, dedicated to the game and willing to accept your decisions. The point might have been made.

I wouldn't call it giving in. I would say that this young man earned the right to play the last part of the last game by accepting his punishment. Coach, you may have taught him a lesson that will last a lifetime, and turn his life around...that should make you prouder than anything else that you teach.

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Great posts...big picture...

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Personally, I think sitting the kid in the first place sucked. Presumably the class room authorities applied any required sanctions in the school/classroom. Should have ended there. If he behaved appropriately on the field his place on the team should not have been jeopardized.
Never understand this mind set when I see it. Kids that put the time and effort into a school athletic program should not vulnerable to this sort of double jeopardy. IF Johnny goes to the skatepark classroom and administration are capable of dealing with tardies and speaking out but if Johnny plays ball his punishment has to be administered outside the classroom?
Kid had his season stolen from him

You took action, the kid complied with your rules and that's it. Good coaches don't hold grudges - let the kid play. He's paid his price and hopefully has learned from the experience....that WAS the point of the punishment, right?

Let him play but warn him and the team that future occurences will result in more punishment and possibly being removed from the team.

Athletes are held to a higher standard than regular students. They choose to be out there are subject to what the coach / school chooses as punishment. There are some kids who will NOT respond to punishment from the classroom or school but will respond when a coach punishes them. A coach is a stronger influence that a regular teacher in some cases and will get the point across that certain behavior is not acceptable. An athletic team is not seperate from a school - they are one and the same.

Thats just wrong. Not a higher standard; just a double standard. Same offense, massive difference in level of punishment for an athlete compared to a non athlete.

The offence?
"nothing big, late for class, talking in class, things like that".

Most districts have policies that are clearly laid out as to offenses that will preclude a student from athletic participation. Typically it includes things like substance use, weapons violations, harassment of other students, skipping classes, not maintaining grades etc. Generally something of some significance. Anyone seriously think that talking in class warrants a penalty like this? Does the school athletic policy say so?

The umps on our board have a term for this; an "OOO", or Overly Officious Official.

Start him...He did everything you asked him too and cleaned up his act. I agree that the punishment is very unfair.

Also, make sure to explain to the team that he was rewarded for his good behavior and having team spirit.

I'm with the majority. He "did the crime' and "did the time"; compliment him for changing the attitude, and let him play. What would be accomplished by sitting 4 more innings?

quote:

by thc: a player who has gotten in trouble quite a few times

dude, how 'bout a little common sense ... "trouble" is dui, drugs, armed robbery, or assult ...

what you describe rises to the level of dipping a girls pigtails in the ink-well
(oops, that might be assault these days)

anyway, the whole deal seems counterproductive and silly to me. if the "incidents" are not in your class, butt out, unless asked ... even if it's your class you ought to separate your coaching & teaching jobs.

you don't fail a guy's math test because he missed a sign in the last game?

do you reward A students with a starting slot?



byw, what's the pentaly for chewing gum? waterboarding??

Apparently the young man has taken tyhe discipline well and without complaint


I see many of the post exhibiting the major problem in our world today---NO DISCIPLINE---


Not only has the coach taught the young man in question in lesson but has sent a message to the rest of the team


Coach you are to be complimented---give the kid a token appearance in the final game while at the same time applauing him for his new found attitude

While I'm a believer in firm discipline, I think you went a bit overboard here. What were you hoping to accomplish by sitting him for the rest of the season? Did his behavior in the classroom improve? Kids learn through punishment and reward, not just punishment. Maybe sit him for a game or two, but not the whole season. To answer your question, I say you definitely let him play.

I had a young player for me who was causing trouble in class this year - talking, disrespecting the teacher, cheating etc... - the teacher came to me hoping I could help. I took the young man aside and said I would not tolerate that kind of behavior because he represents the team, me and my standards and his parents. I then asked him if his parents liked how he acted in class and he said no. I then punished him with 10 poles and he had to sit out 2 JV games. I asked him if he realized what caused the punishment and made him restate it to me.

Since then the kid has been a model student and his grades have improved. Until Feb. I didn't know the kid existed when he tried out for the team.

So did I punish him to severely or did I teach him a lesson??

quote:

Originally posted by tarheelcoach:
I coach a 7/8 MS school team. I have a player who has gotten in trouble quite a few times - nothing big, late for class, talking in class, things like that. I benched him after his last infraction and told him he wouldn't play anymore, but he was welcome to practice and attend the games.
Surprisingly, he has done just that, without a word of complaint.
Our last game is Wednesday - would you give in and play the kid?

Only if his behavior in class has improved.

a bit bewildered that at a time when students are faced with decisions regarding academics, career path, s*x, alcohol, steroids, drugs, cheating, & gangs


an 8th grade student who was tardy & talked in class had his behavior described as ...

"done the crime"

"a major problem in the world today"

"needs to clean his act up"

"needs to learn a lesson"

"needs to turn his life around"


and, coach vowing to never play him again is applauded & then advised to,
"sub him in the final game & publicly take a bow for his generosity"





how 'bout a locker-room meeting to appologize to the player & team



btw Coach2709, the handling of your situation seems completely appropriate

Coach you could be the best thing that has happened to that kid. I agree reward him for his efforts. He could turn out to be one of the best teammates.
How many kids have you heard of that lack discipline and end up JRs of seniors with bad habits and marks. It's time to reward him. Caddad is right kids thrive on fair rules.

The kids learned his lesson by the sounds of it, and took everything in stride. Should make him a better all around person.

BEE

If you let them get away with what you call small stuff they will keep pushing the envelope

At the 7/8 grade realm Coach May have gotten some kids on the right track

quote:

by TR: you let them get away with what you call small stuff they will keep pushing the envelope

I hear that ... yesterday watching a ball game my nephew dumped his food & screamed at me, continued screaming even tho I firmly asked him to stop

expect he'll continue pushing the envelope unless he gets tough love, counseling & maybe some
boot-camp type discipline ...
but his Mom wouldn't even listen






she just warmed a bottle of formula & rocked him to sleep

Dont compare infants with 7/8 graders

Tough love works

Great job at taking a minor situation and turning it into a life lesson. Accountability is lacking in today's society. This youngster will respect you for what you have done in the future. No need for him to apologize to the team. I would start him and let him know he earned it by showing true character and that you are proud of him.

Great Job. Now what have you learned from this young man and how will you use this life lesson in the future with other children that you mentor?

I agree with TR (someone get TR the smelling salts).

Sports are extracurricular. Misbehaving in class or poor grades should be cause for disciplinary action by the coach. Certainly used to be that way, and it seemed to work pretty well. [The problems in our society today seem to have begun to rise when discipline starting going out the door. JMHO.]

Let the boy come in as a sub.

quote:

Surprisingly, he has done just that, without a word of complaint.

Without a word of complaint,.....thats the part that strikes me.
Shows strong character.
Shows a willingness to conform, learn, and grow.
Not easy for boys this age. They want to test the waters. See how far they can go.

Gotta give credit where credit is due IMHO, and I'm not the typical softy mom.

Sometimes kids are simply looking for boundaries. They want to know if anybody is paying attention to them ( ie: caring! ).
They also are watching to see what happens if they do what they are suposed to do after a mistake ( ie: taking the high road by paying the price and not complaining, making ammends ).
Anybody/adult notice?

Some may think this is minor, a mere blip on the childs radar screen,...but I doubt it. You can betcha this child is watching very closely to see how the adults and team mates react to him.

I say play him, and explain exactly WHY you have decided to.
A worthy childhood life lesson,...albeit to some a small one, for the child that truely cares about the sport, a huge one.

SSM made a good point, some kids are looking for boundaries AND some form of discipline they don't get otherwise.

This young may accepted his coach's punishment and is entitled to a second chance, play him.

He will remember this coach for the rest of his life.

It's a 7 and 8 grade middle school team and you're able to get away with not playing him? The policy in our town(s) is that coaches right up through JV should make every effort to give everyone playing time.

quote:

Originally posted by Just Me:
Thats just wrong. Not a higher standard; just a double standard. Same offense, massive difference in level of punishment for an athlete compared to a non athlete.

The offence?
"nothing big, late for class, talking in class, things like that".

Just Me,
it may be/seem like "double standard" but many times the disipline from the Coach is the only one that sinks in. Many kids have little to no respect for teachers but this is not so for the Coach! It sounded like the kid was headed for trouble. What starts out benign often turns into big trouble. It is the pattern of offences that tarheelcoach responded to.

I'm not ready to annoint this coach into sainthood yet. The original post doesn't say how good of a player this kid was. This may be one of those moves by a coach to make his team stronger. Would his best player be benched for the season for being late to class? Tarheelcoach doesn't say. Also, if the kid was a good player, he and his parents would probably scream bloody murder and complain to a higher authority. The fact that this kid didn't complain tells me he is quite content to ride the pine. This could be one of those situations where the player didn't want to play, the coach didn't want him to play, and the perfect resolution was found. Everybody is happy.

This thread brings up a great question. Not so much for H.S. ball but for the younger kids.

Should a parent use playing baseball as punishment?

There's a big game tomorrow and mom or dad says clean your room or no game. Kid doesn't get his room cleaned and parents don't let him play.

Right or wrong?

quote:

Should a parent use playing baseball as punishment?

There's a big game tomorrow and mom or dad says clean your room or no game. Kid doesn't get his room cleaned and parents don't let him play.

Right or wrong?

Right. You need to get their attention. If not playing will do it, then so be it. Not much different than grounding, etc... Personally (and I'll probably get ripped for it) I believe in the adage "Spare the rod, spoil the child".

perhaps the young man's unacceptable behavior was a reflection of a familiy situation & was remedied by the counseling of a parent/relative and/or "father fugure"

troubled student makes amazing turnaround!

quote:

Originally posted by Dear old Dad:
I'm not ready to annoint this coach into sainthood yet. The original post doesn't say how good of a player this kid was. This may be one of those moves by a coach to make his team stronger. Would his best player be benched for the season for being late to class? Tarheelcoach doesn't say. Also, if the kid was a good player, he and his parents would probably scream bloody murder and complain to a higher authority. The fact that this kid didn't complain tells me he is quite content to ride the pine. This could be one of those situations where the player didn't want to play, the coach didn't want him to play, and the perfect resolution was found. Everybody is happy.

This thread brings up a great question. Not so much for H.S. ball but for the younger kids.

Should a parent use playing baseball as punishment?

There's a big game tomorrow and mom or dad says clean your room or no game. Kid doesn't get his room cleaned and parents don't let him play.

Right or wrong?

In 10-12 year old ball, my son's coach had a rule. If your parents tell me your homework isn't done, you can't practice. If you miss practice, you miss your next game. When my son was 10, that coach benched his BEST 12 year old player because the kid didn't do his homework. He also benched every 12 year old on the team to start one game because they were goofing off in warmups.

Funny, not a single kid the next 3 years on that team missed a practice because of not doing his homework. Coaches aren't saints, but they should be respected for what they DO try to do to teach lessons to kids. What the kids do with those lessons is up to them.

quote:

my son's coach had a rule ... If your parents tell me (coach) your homework isn't done, you can't practice. If you miss practice, you miss your next game

How sad ... that parents who can't even perform the most basic parenting functions are happy to relinquish it to others -
they should prolly have their children taken away

maybe be put into a "parent education program" to earn their kids back

I was a school teacher for 16 years and I can tell you that MANY children are in need of discipline outside of the home.
My son wasn't perfect, but we laid the ground rules very early, you had certain obligations before the game of baseball. So we never had to go to a coach for help. There are a lot of parents out there that need help, just because they gave birth does not make them good disciplinarians. When my husband coached there was a single mom that needed to go report to him whether her son did his homework or not, she needed help.
The game of baseball teaches discipline, and that discipline should become instilled in a child on and off the field. If it is not coming from home, then why not come from the coach?
There are many stories of famous players who have been disciplined by their coaches because it wasn't given at home, and I see no problem with that.

JMO.

I agree with you TPM.

I am absolutely amazed at the lack of respect so many high school kids have for authority. Not all these kids come from broken homes either.

I think many kids want discipline and parameters----they like it even if they wont admit it

quote:

there was a single mom that needed to go report to him whether her son did his homework or not, she needed help.

Reinforcements are always good IMHO.
This creates a well balanced structure of boundaries and limitations for the child.

Mom and Dad's ( family ) rules, coincide with lawmakers rules, and the school's rules, the teacher's rules, the grandparents rules, the coaches rules, etc.
In a perfect world, should make a nice cumfie nest for a child to grow up in.
Limitations and boundaries joined around him/her to keep him/her safe and give them guidelines towards a successful life. Problems occur when one of these links waivers as a youth tries to test the strength of these rules.

As a single parent most of the time, ( three children and a usually deployed or TDY dad/husband: military guy ) I have relied numerous times on my extended " family " of teachers, coaches, and neighbors to help support and reinforce my rules and guidelines for my children.

I'll admit it, I needed back up.

I needed my children to hear the rules not only from me, but from others.
Especially when my oldest son, a teen in HS was going through some testing of the waters with a dad deployed for over a year. Male coaches stepped up to the plate, took on the male role model roll and gave me a hand. It was a check and double check system for my son. He found out quickly taht my rules and the coaches rules were in sync,...didnt take long for his toes to get out of the almost muddy waters.
I will always be greatful for those coaches and teachers who helped keep a second set of eyes out for the goodness of my son.

As I said before I got on my soapbox,...I believe reinforcements are good.
I know I am very greatful for them, and so is my son. ( Now, an Air Force MP )

quote:

by ssm: I needed my children to hear the rules not only from me, but from others.
Especially when my oldest son, a teen in HS was going through some testing of the waters

agree 100% ... my comment above referenced parents who were powerless over their 10 yr old

I completely understand Bee>!
I have a just turned 13 year old daughter who likes to think she has all the power in the world! ha!
Thank goodness I am still taller, wiser, and can growl louder!