Discussion of Ordinary Effort on Potential IFF

I've always wondered the definition of "ordinary effort".  Can it vary from game to game.  For instance if a more talented team is playing is ordinary effort different for them?  Also, does it depend on positing of the fielders.  For instance if corners are in and a pop fly lands 3 feet behind the normal positioning of the 1st baseman does that change things?  Or what about if the fielder charges inward and the ball lands 2 feet behind the spot he started charging from.

If it's on the dirt, hard to argue anything but IFF.  Not like it is a lot of area to cover. 

joes87 posted:

I've always wondered the definition of "ordinary effort".  Can it vary from game to game.  For instance if a more talented team is playing is ordinary effort different for them?  Also, does it depend on positing of the fielders.  For instance if corners are in and a pop fly lands 3 feet behind the normal positioning of the 1st baseman does that change things?  Or what about if the fielder charges inward and the ball lands 2 feet behind the spot he started charging from.

Yes it can vary from game to game but it can’t be a different standard for the 2 teams or for different players.

For me as a scorer it can cause “issues”. FI, our team is D1 or highest classification of 7 in Ca. and it’s one of the weakest teams in that division. When we play teams in that division, my definition of “average player” is different than if we’re playing a game against a lower division team. So a play I’d score as an error in a D1 game might be scored a hit in a game where the average player at that position wouldn’t be quite as good.

It’s a very subtle thing and really doesn’t come into play very often, but it is something that most people don’t understand. It’s pretty simple in pro ball. The standard is the same for all 30 ML teams but is different for AAA, AA, A or the other leagues. IN HS it’s a lot more difficult. You can look at it like I do but I can also see people looking at all V ball the same but changing the standard for JV or Fr ball.

OBR – 2.00

ORDINARY EFFORT is the effort that a fielder of average skill at a position in that

league or classification of leagues should exhibit on a play, with due consideration given

to the condition of the field and weather conditions.

Rule 2.00 (Ordinary Effort) Comment: This standard, called for several times in the Official Scoring Rules (e.g., Rules 10.05(a)(3), 10.05(a)(4), 10.05(a)(6), 10.05(b)(3) (Base Hits); 10.08(b) (Sacrifices); 10.12(a)(1) Comment, 10.12(d)(2) (Errors); and 10.13(a), 10.13(b) (Wild Pitches and Passed Balls)) and in the Official Baseball Rules (e.g., Rule 2.00 (Infield Fly)), is an objective standard in regard to any particular fielder. In other words, even if a fielder makes his best effort, if that effort falls short of what an average fielder at that position in that league would have made in a situation, the official scorer should charge that fielder with an error.

I thank Stats for posting the definition because that's really what I'd like the starting point of the discussion to be.

If you're an umpire, how do you apply that definition in practical terms to infield fly situations?

Can you give examples of plays you'd call different at different levels and explain why?

Most people forget the IFF is designed to protect the Offense from defensive trickery.

With that in mind the umpire has to do several things all at once:

1)  Know the IFF is in effect before the ball is put in play.  Failure to be aware means he may hesitate enough to create real confusion by not making a timely call.  If you pay attention to them at all during the game you may learn the signaling system and good crews will have one when the IFF is in effect.

2)  Quick judgment of height, distance, fielders position and other conditions such as sun or wind that might impact the play.  All of that has to go through the mill in about 2 or 3 seconds.

3)  Patience to not be too quick to make the call - does the umpire have the patience to see how defenders are approaching the play before making the call.  You do not have the luxury of waiting for defenders to pitch a tent under it.  A pop up behind first that a 2b can make a play on even if he is making a drifting catch 10 feet on the grass needs to be called IFF.

4)  Once the decision is made - make the call and be sure everyone knows it.

The fact that defenders botch it is not the umpires problem. 

I do a lot of games between 8U and 12U.  It has been my experience that the IFF is not taught very well (if at all) and that there are many varying degrees of ordinary effort.  At the younger end of the spectrum, I almost never call it unless the player is camped under it.  At the older end, I expect the players to have the skill / training to cover some ground and make the play.    At one 12U game - as described in the OP, the corners were in, short pop up to 1B - maybe 10 feet off the line in fair and 10 feet past 1st base.  The 1B immediately turned, got to the spot and was under it.  I called IFF.  Well being 12U, it hit off the heel of his glove and dropped to the ground.   Runners advanced, but offensive coach was livid as he said when the 1b turned - that it was extraordinary effort.   I called another one in a 10U game  pop up behind the mound.  Sky high.  It fell 5 ' in front of the bag at 2b.   2b and SS never even attempted to catch the ball, even though it was only 3 - 4 strides from where they were playing.  Then you have the coach that thinks the runners are protected - even if they wander off the base before the catch.  Before you are allowed to coach - at any level - you should need to take a test on the rules basics.

I think as with all calls proper timing is the key.  If a player or players are in position  to make the catch when the ball has started downward Infield Fly should be called.  We don't want to split hairs on this one.  Error on the side of protecting the runners. 

Stats4Gnats posted:

[...]

Yes it can vary from game to game but it can’t be a different standard for the 2 teams or for different players. [...]

You quoted OBR, which has some good description.  In northern Colorado, under NFHS rules, our umpires are taught contrary to your statement.  The definition of "Ordinary Effort" absolutely would take into consideration all variables, including weather, field condition, and the specific skill of the team and players involved in the play.

Of course, this is most probable to occur in younger ages when the team and player skill levels can have orders-of-magnitude differences.  Each team/player would be appropriately judged, rather than expecting all players and teams to be of "average skill." 

Granted, without prior knowledge, it would be appropriate to apply a sort of vanilla judging criterion.  But, if in the 5th inning, a pop is hit behind 2B that an average team/player could make, but if the team actually on the field couldn't catch a cold ... no IFF.  The definition has some specificity and may apply unevenly to the two teams competing that day.

67L48 posted:

Stats4Gnats posted:

[...]

Yes it can vary from game to game but it can’t be a different standard for the 2 teams or for different players. [...]

You quoted OBR, which has some good description.  In northern Colorado, under NFHS rules, our umpires are taught contrary to your statement.  The definition of "Ordinary Effort" absolutely would take into consideration all variables, including weather, field condition, and the specific skill of the team and players involved in the play.

Of course, this is most probable to occur in younger ages when the team and player skill levels can have orders-of-magnitude differences.  Each team/player would be appropriately judged, rather than expecting all players and teams to be of "average skill." 

Granted, without prior knowledge, it would be appropriate to apply a sort of vanilla judging criterion.  But, if in the 5th inning, a pop is hit behind 2B that an average team/player could make, but if the team actually on the field couldn't catch a cold ... no IFF.  The definition has some specificity and may apply unevenly to the two teams competing that day.

No. Ordinary effort is ordinary effort for the average player at that level. It does not vary between teams in a game.

No?  I'm telling you what actually happens here and your reply is, "No"?  Very confusing.

The definition of "Ordinary Effort" does, in fact, vary between teams in a game.  Your interpretation is that it shouldn't.  You may very well be correct and the local ump orgs might be sideways here.  But, I'm telling you that, by instruction and with intent, it does vary in our locality.