Distance running vs. Sprints?

run sprints... as my man cudi says "simple as that"

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run sprints... as my man cudi says "simple as that"

Wish it were that simple. I'd say run both. More sprints than long distances, but I'd add long distances too. Will try to explain more later....

I like distance running for pitchers because it builds stamina and helps the legs

Position players don't need the distance running--they need the sprints

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Originally posted by Andrew Dunlap:
run sprints... as my man cudi says "simple as that"

Agree, but with one caveat. A lot of programs promote the distance work because it also helps to remove lactic acid build up and improve blood flow. A pitcher, during the course of a game, is likely to push off the same leg and land on the opposite leg three or four hundred times. Doing some distance work would likely help to mitigate that by "flushing" the lower body.

For the position player, however, I don't see the point.

Ole Ball Coach,

I agree with what you're saying, to an extent. Saying that a pitcher would be pushing off 300-400 times a game would mean he is throwing 300-400 pitches....Not sure if that was a typo or not, but its pretty excessive.

Anyway, how much do "fast twitch muscles" factor into your velocity? Enough to base a workout routine off of? I've heard that they are used in the delivery, but I've never heard how much of a factor they are.

I am not so concerned with fast twitch muscle groups for pitchers. I am a big beleiver in long distance running for pitchers as it does help to remove the lactic acid build up and well as helps with endurance. Where as position players need more quick, explosive movements. I also think there is a big misconception when it comes to pushing off the rubber. Yes to an extent you push off the rubber but it is more of a controlled fall towards the plate. My reason for this is when a player tries to push to much off of the rubber, they tend to drop down more causing the ball to come out of their hand flat, and not throwing it on the downward plane. Now for shorter guys this is a setup for failure, where as taller guys can get by a little more with it. With a controlled fall, the ball comes in more on thr downward plane.

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I am a big beleiver in long distance running for pitchers as it does help to remove the lactic acid build up

I wonder what the percentage of posters who post about lactic acid actually understands it?

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Originally posted by Bulldog 19:

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I am a big beleiver in long distance running for pitchers as it does help to remove the lactic acid build up

I wonder what the percentage of posters who post about lactic acid actually understands it?

Not to sure as what you are implying, but I would certainly love to talk lactic acid with you any day. Hell I can talk pitching all day. Whenever you want to have a discussion about Lactic Acid we can talk

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Not to sure as what you are implying, but I would certainly love to talk lactic acid with you any day. Hell I can talk pitching all day. Whenever you want to have a discussion about Lactic Acid we can talk

Lactic acid accumulation in baseball is so minor. And lactic acid does not remain in the body very long either. People that talk about running the day after to "flush lactic acid" are just wasting time.

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Originally posted by Bulldog 19:

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Not to sure as what you are implying, but I would certainly love to talk lactic acid with you any day. Hell I can talk pitching all day. Whenever you want to have a discussion about Lactic Acid we can talk

Lactic acid accumulation in baseball is so minor. And lactic acid does not remain in the body very long either. People that talk about running the day after to "flush lactic acid" are just wasting time.

That is your opinion and every one is entitled to their own. I personally feel it is beneficial. Even without getting into the lactic acid talk I think it is beneficial not only to keep my pitchers in shape, but the running will also help to increase blood flow which will cause an increased level of white blood cells to act as a clearing for unwanted metabolites in the area of micro trauma in the arm.

This is my opinion and it has worked for me this long.

Lactic acid accumulation in baseball is so minor. And lactic acid does not remain in the body very long either. People that talk about running the day after to "flush lactic acid" are just wasting time.[/QUOTE]


That is your opinion and every one is entitled to their own. I personally feel it is beneficial. Even without getting into the lactic acid talk I think it is beneficial not only to keep my pitchers in shape, but the running will also help to increase blood flow which will cause an increased level of white blood cells to act as a clearing for unwanted metabolites in the area of micro trauma in the arm.

This is my opinion and it has worked for me this long.[/QUOTE]


Guys, I am not sure what the "right" answer is, but I do know that the landing leg absorbs a lot of shock (micro-trauma?). In fact, I don't know, but I would guess that, of the two, the landing leg takes a bit more of the strain. 300 or 400 probably is a bit much, (I would also concede) but it is also important to note how much throwing takes place when warming up. It isn't just the number of pitches...

NIC15 - curious if Lincecum and some of the momentum pitching proponents is/are an exception to the rule re controlled fall. It almost seems like the push off the rubber is critical for more velocity. I know there are exceptions to every rule, curious how or if one can balance the momentum theory with controlled fall.

Lactic acid is developed when the body cannot bring oxygen to the muscle fast enough. Lactic acid is produced constantly-- everyone of us has lactate in the body right now. Contrary to popular belief, lactic acid is a GOOD thing. Without lactic acid, our bodies would not be able to function for more than a couple of seconds.

When a pitcher throws the ball, sure lactic acid is produced. That is, if what I said above is correct, then that would make sense. But your body flushes the lactate out rather quickly as well. Especially if you do some sort of cool down post-workout or post-pitching, etc. Doesn't need to be much, but an active recovery is important to keep the blood flowing.

Many people seem to think that lactic acid sticks around for many, many hours. When you run the day after a workout or after an outing, you're not flushing lactic acid out. But you are bringing nutrients to the muscles that can help them to heal faster.


I personally do not believe a baseball player needs to run more than a mile or two. I would encourage them to run some long(er) distances and not just sprints in order to work on the aerobic energy system. The aerobic and anaerobic energy systems work together. Therefore I think it is important to train both of them and not just one.

I'm not a pitcher. But I am a Dad of a collegiate pitcher and I'm always reading and learning about the latest and greatest conditioning ideas, workout programs, mechanic tweaks, etc. that might help son.

I've always been a big believer that running soon after a pitching outing is good for helping alleviate and/or remove the lactic acid build up that occurred while pitching. Some pitchers do, some don't. To each his own. Heck, Lincecum doesn't even ice AT ALL so that makes one scratch his head.

If any of you subscribe to the Collegiate Baseball monthly rag maybe some of you'll remember this article. Last year there was a 2 or 3 part story of the benefits of pitchers running sprints instead of long distance running. Long story short, they said that long distance running perpetuated the slow twitch muscles. Because of the explosiveness needed in pitching sprints actually helped in the development of fast twitch muscles. Don't shoot the messenger. I'm only telling you what the article reported on.

I'm not saying at all that long distance running doesn't have its benefits for all players.

Below is a snapshot of what was in one of their recent subscriptions:

Featured Stories In Jan. 2 Issue

*Vision expert Dr. Bill Harrison explains his techniques for getting hitters, pitchers, fielders to react quicker.
*Special 32-page college preview section with all top teams spotlighted, as well as players, in rundown of NCAA Divisions I, II, III, NAIA, NJCAA Divisions I, II, III and California JCs.
*Special feature on how 82-year-old Gordie Gillespie has become the best coach in history of college baseball entering 57th season as skipper.
*Special look at top pro prospects from college baseball who have great chance at being chosen in first two rounds of next June's Draft.
*The danger of pitchers running long distances for conditioning purposes.

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Heck, Lincecum doesn't even ice AT ALL so that makes one scratch his head.

I am not an advocate of icing after pitching just because you pitched. Again, why? A lot of it has to do with routine and superstition. Baseball players are awful about that and pitchers are the absolute WORST!

Four things baseball players (especially pitchers) do that have no true reason:

1) I pitched so I must ice.
2) I pitched so I must run the next day "to remove lactic acid"
3) I am going to pitch so I must take ibuprofen "to prevent inflammation"
4) I shouldn't lift weights.

how about long distance sprints....it's the best of both worlds

Sprints are by far the best cross training exercise any baseball player can do. They are demanding and also build up other parts of the body as well as the cardiovascular system. I would work up to 10x 100’s (meters, yrds) 2 – 3 times per week. I would also highly suggest that you get with a track coach first and learn how to: 1) Properly warm up. 2) Learn proper running technique. 3) Proper cool down and stretching. Unless you have done it you have no idea how difficult it is to run at high speed on the balls of your feet for 100 yards. Don’t go out their and clunk along hitting on your heals like your jogging, you must stay up on the balls of your feet. If you have not been doing them don’t stress out as it is demanding and you are going to have to build up the ability to do 10 of them. Start with 3-4 and then work up to 10. If done correctly they will also significantly help your 60 times. (for position players getting ready for summer combine season)

If you think about it what better exercise can you find for a pitcher? A typical runner will strike 50-60 times per 100. If you can work up to 10 of them it is like pitching a game as far as legwork. For position players, once you get to the point that you can do 10x100’s you can mix and match your workouts and go out to 120 on some days, do 40’s on other days and work on your starts. I can not stress how important it is to work with someone who understands sprinting technique to get you started properly.

Bulldog19,
Every one is different. Some pitchers need to ice to prevent inflammation from building up and getting out of hand. Some pitchers need to use NSAIDS to keep inflammation from building up and getting out of hand. Inflammation is a normal part of the recovery process and many pitchers don't need to do anything to fight it and in fact will recover better without ice or NSAIDs. Other pitchers have a tendency to have inflammation build up over time and need to make sure it doesn't get too far. Those pitchers often need to ice and/or use NSAIDs.

Running the next day is one way to get more blood flow to the arm to speed recovery. It isn't the only way. However, it has it's own benefits so why not?

There are weight regimens that are bad for some pitchers. Bulk doesn't contribute to velocity as directly as it does to bat speed and in some cases bulk can slow a pitcher down resulting in less velocity. Weight training for most pitchers needs to be designed for pitchers. It also needs to be "easy" on the shoulders as some pitchers are taking their shoulders to the limit with pitching alone.

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Bulldog19,
Every one is different. Some pitchers need to ice to prevent inflammation from building up and getting out of hand. Some pitchers need to use NSAIDS to keep inflammation from building up and getting out of hand. Inflammation is a normal part of the recovery process and many pitchers don't need to do anything to fight it and in fact will recover better without ice or NSAIDs. Other pitchers have a tendency to have inflammation build up over time and need to make sure it doesn't get too far. Those pitchers often need to ice and/or use NSAIDs.

You're right everybody is different. I'm not an anti-ice person or anything like that because obviously there are LOTS of times to use it! But I am also not one that will blanket-statement suggest icing either. There are some that are.

As far as NSAIDS, my understanding is yes they obviously help reduce inflammation because well that is their job. But from what I've learned, they don't prevent inflammation.

NSAIDs can help prevent inflammation in a manner of speaking. Doctors have been known to tell pitchers to take NSAIDs before and after hard throwing to ensure that inflammation doesn't get too bad. I've seen them prescribed for the day before hard throwing, the day of hard throwing and the day after hard throwing. The particular case I'm thinking of involves the team doctor for the Dodgers, someone who realizes how long inflammation persists. Much longer than most people would expect.

BTW, NSAIDs taken in therapeutic doses over an extended period are bad for bone healing and can contribute to stress fractures.

Would there be any long-term negative effect from distance running in the offseason? I plan on running cross country through mid to late October, I imagine that once cross country is over I could start a routine of sprints and the result would be relatively the same.

For baseball you generally want to get bigger, stronger and faster, in various ways depending on the position you play. The sport is unique in the fact that you make very explosive moves and then have long periods of rest between them. In a sense you are correct that you can pick up sprint work and you can gain much of what you lost during the cross-country season. You are in HS so should go out and enjoy multiple sports. Just be aware that you are making tradeoffs as you will have a hard time building muscle mass during CC season, and you will be slower at the end of the season. You will have great stamina, but this does not necessarily translate into a better baseball player.

You'll probably have trouble building bulk if you are running CC but I doubt that you'll get slower. Perhaps you might not be quite as fast as if you did a sprint/strength program but you'll probably be a bit faster than when you start the xcountry. The uphill and downhill is conducive to building speed.

I don’t mean to ruffle any feathers, but I most likely will.

One of the things I keep telling my son is he has a big advantage over other kids playing baseball. That’s because I never really played baseball so I had nothing from 35 years ago to teach him. I went out and did research on everything having to do with baseball so it was all the latest information from the latest research. I learned very quickly not to trust “conventional baseball wisdom” because it was wrong most of the time. So I started seeking out conditioning people that had a “CSCS” after there name (certified strength and conditioning specialist). I found the website for Dana Cavalea, CSCS who is the strength and conditioning coordinator for the New York Yankees and Steve Zawrotny, MS, CSCS and his website www.baseballfit.com and others. I also discovered Velocity Sports Performance and yes the trainers there all have CSCS after their names. The main question always asked by these trainers was “Why train aerobically for an anaerobic sport?”

The other main saying that always came up “Train slow to be slow, train fast to be fast”.
Most of the baseball coaches (not all) coach the way they were taught 30+ years ago and their coaches coach that way because that’s the way they were coached 30+ years ago and so on and so on. So a lot of the techniques used for training in baseball today could be 100 years old. It wasn’t that long ago that it was “conventional baseball wisdom” to tell baseball players to never left weights.

Distance running will slow you down and in order to tap into your aerobic conditioning you have to do an action continuously for at least 2 minutes. No play lasts 2 minutes in baseball. Even the pitcher is at rest over 90% of the time. Interval training will give the endurance that is needed without slowing the player down.

I know it’s much more complex than this but simply put, there are three main types of muscles: fast twitch, slow twitch and a transitional type (many more types, but this simplifies the subject). Transitional types will take on the characteristics of the fast twitch or slow twitch depending on how they are trained.

I could go on and on but the bottom line is, if your players run a lot of distance they will become slower sprinters and it will take away from their quickness.

First welcome Hawghauler nice first post!

You are absolutely correct in your analysis. Baseball is an anaerobic sport and you should train accordingly. I know for a fact that a if a sprinter runs cross country or other long distances events, he will be slower at the end of his season. This is a well-known issue for sprinters who run multiple events. Also most of the credible trainers and baseball coaches are now aware of this and good baseball training programs are primarily anaerobic.

Thanks BOF!