Disturbing Story at Duke University

wow! my son was being recruited by them early on. Quite glad that he decided to go elsewhere after reading that.

The coaching staff should not been hired in the first [place, had losing record at UNC asheville before coming to Duke.
AD does not want to admit he made a big mistake in hiring him

Like anything else there are 2 sides to the story but...the article is disturbing on many levels. I have heard the grumblings over some of the things but this article is pretty incredible.

My older son played for arguably the worst and most abusive college baseball coach anywhere. He had a terrible reputation and was very intimidating to players, other coaches and the administration. The school was so afraid of him that after last season they shut down the baseball program instead of firing him. He finally left. They just hired a new coach and will begin baseball again this fall....

Funny thing was that my son told the other players that he was a p-u-s-s-ycat compared to his old man! The point is that it is all relevent. I only read of one accusation of physical abuse in the article and it was denied by the coach. Two sides to every story. The only substantiated problem that I see is the team's record. While I am not a Duke fan, I am less of a fan of sensationalism by the media.

I thought it pretty strange that well respected Filipek suddenly departed because of what some close to the situation would only descrbe as "extreme coaching philosophy differences"

there were grumblings from players I know from Hillier's UNC Ashville tenure - at the time it could'a been dismissed as "sour grapes" - - but, it seems his "teflon" may have worn off, and allegations are now sticking

the kids really deserve something better

quote:

wow! my son was being recruited by them early on. Quite glad that he decided to go elsewhere after reading that.

I guess that about sums it up.

Not to condone anything, but I have to agree with Callaway. The story is so one sided it's hard to believe. You could talk to former disgruntled players from nearly any college, if you're after a story that will get the coach fired.

Perhaps some of the story is true, but what parts? Telling your players they need to get bigger and stronger is something many coaches have said. Telling players to take steroids is another thing all together.

My question is... If Duke were 30-5 right now, would this story have been written? Or would it have been replaced by a more positive Duke baseball story.

In the end, I hope the truth is revealed completely. However, the final comment by a former disgruntled Duke player was... "Rather than develop talent, the coaches just broke people down. No one ever got better at Duke."

By the above comment alone this story loses some credibility. Larry Broadway, Kevin Kelly, Tim Laydon, Zach Schreiber and others might disagree with the thought that no one ever got better.

Schreiber was a young pitcher from our home town. He was not recruited by any DI schools and started throwing high 80s in the summer after his senior high school year. Duke gave him a chance and he became their top pitcher. He improved a lot in his years at Duke becoming a mid 90s power guy and was drafted by the Atlanta Braves.

For most players it's what they make out of a situation. The ultimate responsibility belongs to the player. I only bring this up because, as others have said, there's always two sides to the story. And no matter what the real truth is in this case, it sure does look like a "witch hunt".

Cannot dispute what I do not know as factual but sat face to face with Coach Hillier for 2 hours in July of 2003(along with my two sons and wife) and never got the feeling that these
kinds of things would have happened. My son was one of their two top recruits that year for
this(2004/2005) season. He chose to go elsewhere but the other recruit signed with Duke and
is their leading hitter this year. I was shocked when I heard the announcers on ESPN talking
about the "Duke" problem and after reading the article I just have a hard time believing that
this would happen from the same person.

If ,in fact ,this is all true I'm very thankful my son chose to go in another direction.

However, we should not forget that as the article stated, these things are probably happening
at a lot of campuses across the country.

PG

As I noted in another thread it seemed so coincidental that the story broke when the annual "fire Hillier" rumors start.

Why is it always disgruntled players/parents who start the stories? I dont have to think too hard on that one.

I agree with you--"witch hunt" is a great term--but in the end the Hilliers, whether they are there or not in 05/06 will be feeling the heat of this.

My son received a questionnaire from Duke and one of the very first lines was "If you do not return this, we can assume you are not interested in Duke University Baseball". Duh, ya think?

By the way, Zach Schreiber who was mentioned in my last post, graduated with a "Duke Degree" in 4 years and is doing very well in the Atlanta Braves minor league system.

Some people just do what it takes. I talked to Javi Socorro this winter. He is in his 4th year playing at Duke. He's not very big, I doubt he's on steroids. All he could talk about is how great his experience at Duke has been. He will graduate on time with a Duke degree in finance.

I only bring these things up in order to point out there is and has been another side of the story. A Duke education is one of the best. The ACC Conference is one of the best.

Witch Hunt thats all it is. Coach Hillier is a class man and so is his son. A one sided story by disgruntled players. The coach told them they needed to get bigger stronger and faster. What coach hasnt told their players this? Now they want to say that they took this as he wanted them to take steroids. Give me a break. If a player takes steroids it is his decision to break the rules. Take responsibility for your own actions. Blame the coach blame the administration blame the police blame the weather blame the mound blame the field blame the bat blame the glove blame the umpires blame the team blame the trainer blame the school blame the parents blame the press blame the pressure blame the batting gloves blame anyone or anything except the person in the mirror.

Question,

Does Duke fully fund the maximum baseball baseball scholarships allowed by the NCAA?

Thanks in advance

Coach May and PG Staff

You always know who your friends are when things are not going well.

is objective criticism now off limits?

those who circle the wagons, cover their ears & close their eyes when a (percieved?) comrad is on the hot seat seriously risk being left with no credibility when things shake out

now today THE DEFINITIVE EXPLAINATION by Duke's Chris Kennedy, senior associate athletic director -

(our players)“They all go and play summer baseball, mixing with players from other programs, some of whom apparently are pretty heavily into various kinds of performance-enhancing drugs”

LMAO - admiting their problem, and blaming it on everyone else!

quote:

They all go and play summer baseball...

I would be shocked if 100% of the Duke players since 1999 played summer ball. It just doesn't happen. A very elitist statement also.

Not a smart thing to say for an Asst. AD.

So 100% of Duke players have or are using steroids. Or just the ones that play in the summer. Defending yourself against accusations that you believe to be untrue is not circleing the wagons is it? Lets get rid of every coach that has a player test positive for steroids or says that he used steroids while he played for that coach. What about cocaine or marijuana or any other illegal drug. Lets fire every coach that has a player that makes a poor choice. What about alcohol use during the season? Lets get rid of every coach that has a player that indulges in drinking during the season. Heck lets fire the ones that have players drinking out of season as well. These players were so concerned about their coach pushing them towards steroids why didnt they speak up when it was supposedly happening? I have no respect for a player that goes out and makes a poor choice and then wants to justify it by saying that someone else made him do it. These are men people. These are 19-24 year old men. Boys we have got to get bigger stronger and faster. You darn right you better. Now that means go use steroids? Give me a break.

maybe you can convince yourself it's a witch hunt, but I'm a bit skeptical, as I was about some things at UNC-A, as I was again when "Flip" suddenly left for WCU (fired?)


some who complain that trouble seems to follow them are in fact actually carrying it with them


[Athletics Director Joe Alleva] noted that
"Hillier would not return as head coach for the 2006 season unless the situation improved significantly."

Hillier's record at Duke is 117-201, their current ACC season record is 2-14

Alleva added Friday : "Obviously, the situation hasn't improved. You can dot the i's and cross the t's with that. I'm not pleased with where the program is."

now that sounds more like the writing on the wall than hunting witches - & I gotta believe that "Joe knows"

My son's best friend attends the baseball program at Duke University. So do know that there are two sides to every story. This article has been harmful to the program, it's 2005 recruiting class and those that are interested in the program.
I personally feel that it's time for a coaching change at Duke, based only upon their losing record. What happened in 2002 has happened at every college program, no matter what the sport. Let's all be thankful that many recognize there are problems everywhere, HS, college, MLB and the NFL.
I am happy that my son's school tests on a regular basis. FYI, the NCAA was there the other day and has begun random testing at all schools, before playoffs.

Breaking the story will force this to be Hillier's last year. It doesn't matter if a single element of it is true anymore. The appearance of impropriety is as serious as the actual fact when it comes to a head coach. Duke will be forced to replace him, just to say they "did something" about the program.

..... so, we are beating an already dying horse and don't know if it's leg is broke or not. As much as I hate to say this, it's a "non-story". I'm not a fan of the program, but I would prefer to see something concrete before the press hangs a person. It's not like a politian who elects to run for "public scruitiny". The man is a baseball coach, but he's still guilty until proven innocent, just like a politian.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but the brand of journalism seems a bit dingy to me ... like it needs some bleach to get rid of the yellow stains.

This is the school newspaper....geesh...this guy is TOAST.

Joe hired Hillier. Both of Joes sons played for Hillier. What was Dukes record before Hillier? Do any of you know? When was the last time Duke has been competitive in ACC in baseball? If your dissapointed in the progress of the baseball program and you feel that it is time for a change fine do it. Why do you feel it necessary to publicly express this as the AD? Hillier has attempted to upgrade the facilities and the recruiting. He has done everything he can to bring the program up to the level of the conference. Has Duke University made the commitment to the baseball program necessary to upgrade the facilities in order to compete in recruiting? Not to mention that in state cost for Duke is 38k a year. Dont use steroid accusations in order to justify getting rid of him. If you want to get rid of him do it privately and fire him straight up. Why all the statements in public by Joe Alleva. I dont understand that.

for more on duke baseballl go to

http://www.goduke.com

they have an duke history web page

Duke baseballl hasn't been good for a long time. They have been and will be the doormat of the ACC. I remember that many websters said a few years ago that Duke was an "up and coming" program but it has stagnated.

Duke wants to be the Stanford of the east in baseball but do not allocate the resources to do so. I used to go to Duke games when I lived in the Triangle area and my son and I were one of a handful of fans there. It was sad to see so few people at a D1 game.

Your right Redbird. They will continue to be the doormat as long as they do nothing to improve the facilities and improve in their recruiting of players. They have to go after a select group of kids. In state tuition is 38k a year. They do fund all D-1 scholarships now. But even if you get 50% you are going to shell out quite a bit of cash. They have not made anywhere near the strides in facilities that the other schools in the conference have made. I stopped by a few weeks back and caught some of the Ga Tech game on a Saturday. Im not kidding when I say that there was about 50 people there and most were Tech fans. By the way they have the deepest backstop in baseball there. It must be 150'.

Duke could have a great baseball program, as does Vandy, Tulane, Rice, Stetson, Wake and other great private schools. All of those schools and many others, except Wake have upgraded their facilities costing millions in the past few years. The SEC schools are building palaces for their baseball teams.

I heard one coach recently say that "It's a facility war right now."...when referring to D1 recruiting.

Changing coaches could be like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

dad04,

At Duke, it really is not the facility. It is more the apathy towards the program and it is driven from the AD down. If the AD (whose sons played at Duke) were to place a greater emphasis on baseball, the program would be turned around in a hurry. I mean, who wouldn't want a Duke education?!? Unfortunately, it won't happen any time soon.

If Hillier is released, I will be curious to see who they go after. Their hire will tell you a lot about the direction of their program. If they hire a prominent :"name" coach, you will know they are serious. If they hire some guy you've never heard of, you can predict they will do this again in 5 years.

In a similar story...
A few years ago, Old Dominion lost one of the best coaches in the country because they didn't want to devote the effort (and $$) toward making the program anything more than a statewide contender. They figured that with this approach, they could get a regional bid every 4 years and keep everyone happy. It doesn't work that way when the teams you compete against have a more aggressive approach.

I don't know coach Hillier, never met him even when he coached at UNCA, although we went to alot of games. We never knew any of the players back then either, simply because there were NO local guys. Why? Hillier stated he didn't take local guys because he didn't deal with mommies and daddies. Could that part of the low crowds at Duke today?

I know plenty of guys who have been told "you need to get bigger, stronger etc" but never thought of that as anything as eat right, work hard. Coaches will start giving out diets with workouts they want recruits to follow prior to showing up on campus! What a can of worms that will cause!

I don't know the truth, but a DUKE DEGREE? WOW!

quote:

It doesn't work that way when the teams you compete against have a more aggressive approach

Rob, You know better than I about the program. It will definately be harder for programs like Duke to tread water, as the sport gets more TV time. It doesn't look like NHL is coming back anytime soon. Duke should paddle hard to catch up. They could if they chose to.

When my son was being recruited by scouts, many of them suggested he go to Clemson to get bigger and stronger. I never perceived it any other way but to learn how to do proper workouts and eat properly. Unfortunetly, now the suggestion conjures up other things as well.
I do not know anything about the coach, but I do know about the program from my son's friend. I have never seen the facilities, but facilities do not necessarily make a program better. UM has the worst bb facility I have ever seen, look at their program.
We don't know the answer or the real story. Duke just recently played against CU and I heard that there is talent on the team, but talent has to be developed, not just by telling your players to get bigger or stronger (if that is what was said). JMO. At CU, the coaches leave the getting bigger and stronger to the trainers. However, my son's coaches have a philosophy that if their boys need to work hard at training, they do as well, and are in the gym with them during preseason 24/7 and run with them all the time (head coach usually beats out most of the team, therefore for every minute he is up on you, means an extra mile the next day). So when choosing a school , it is important to find out about the training program, teh coaches philosophy on getting bigger and stronger, do not just surmise that because it is a D1 you get the best.
The attendance issue is very sad, and it does do something to a player's head not to see fan support, this should be an issue addressed asap. Do not blame this on the coaching staff, this is an issue for the athletic department. No one wants to watch their team lose over and over again.

I've seen the CU conditioning program 1st hand. No team is in better shape. Huge weight room with trainers all over the place. It was impressive.

Dad04,
You should see it now! They poured tons of money into the facility after the football team won the Peach bowl, it is amazing.

TPM,

My son and I saw 2 little things that we liked about Clemson and we employ on our little guys now:

1. The way they throw groundballs and return throws in between innings (very sharp)

2. On any pop fly that they hit, all hitters run and touch 2nd base to make sure they run it out.

Clemson is very business like in their approach as are most of the best teams.

Redbird,
If you knew Jack Legget, sitting is not tolerated, even in a game..kidding. The players get stiff standing or sitting for hours, and one never knows when they have to go in. I think it is a good practice for any team.
If you don't run it out on a pop fly, you will not want to see the coach in the dugout. Don't get me wrong, Jack Leggett is a terrific Head Coach, very much respected by his players, I think that is why he gets so much out of them. He just has certain standards, for himself, his team, CU. And that is the way it should be.
He had a very impressive mentor back in his college days at Maine, and worked under Wilhelm, probably one of the best coaches in college baseball.

There is nothing wrong with objective criticism. There is also nothing wrong with giving an opposing view to that objective criticism.

There are two sides to every story, but sometimes it's simply more fun to tar and feather someone after we hear the first side. Especially if we don't like the person, or his program to begin with.

A tiger doesn't often change his stipes. It's hard to believe there wouldn't be a few more recent incidents to bring up - after all there have been 2 full seasons, and another season is nearly over - or have they been without incident?

A true story. A customer left a coin on the counter and walked away. The clerk called out their name and told them they had forgotten their change. The customer turned and said, here, toss to me.

The next day, when the customer did not get a "little extra" he felt entitled to he asked for the boss. The boss was told that the clerk was being rude, and that yesterday the clerk had become violent and had thrown his change at him.

There was an element of truth in the complaint, (after all - in tossing the coins the clerk had "thrown" the change at him) - but it was certainly not a truthful complaint.

One should never dismiss outright the story of a disgruntled person. On the other hand, the story should seldom be taken as 100% accurate either. One should always take the time to hear both sides before the tarring and feathering begins.

TPM,

I know Coach Leggett. I was recruited by CU back when I played. I was impressed with him back then.

I like watching well-coached teams because you can always find one or two things to add to your team.

I think people are talking about Duke Baseball , not who got recruited by Clemson, what is next saying people were an extra on baywatch

AP, you almost lost me on the coin story - out here we just thank 'em very quietly for the "tip"

I haven't been a Hillier fan since his days at UNC-A when he recruited Ohio heavily, & I understand there are 2 sides to a story, but I've heard the "other" side way too often, from way too many sources - -

so my skepticism, about transfer #'s at UNC-A and now at Duke, about little "Z" suddenly leaving UNC-A (fired?) landing at Louisville, then about "Flip" suddenly leaving Duke (fired?) but landing at WCU. a couple of class guys with a lot to offer

disregard the substance abuse factor in those stories - and, the other stuff is just the missing puzzle pieces

If any of the allegations are true, it is a shame. The college coach is not getting a man but an 18 year old that will grow into a man while in his keep. The coach, should be his mentor and will be setting the example for how this young man will live his life. He has the ability to shape this student-athlete's future- Teach him that the "quick fix" (steroids) will not work, but that a strong work ethic on the field, the weight room and in the classroom will build character and pride. The success of a schools program should be judged by the successes of its graduates. If the responsibility of setting a good example is too much, then the coach is in the wrong profession.