Do all College coaches lie when recruiting?

Wow, that's a lot of not lining up.  What is particularly confusing is that you said you/he did your homework, implying (I think) that those things you were told were substantiated by others either in or close to the program.  Who did you do homework with? Was there a significant change in the program?  

That is disturbing! Is your son already at school or still being recruited? 

Wow ... a college coach that lies doesn't last long. You can't keep those things from future recruits and parents. When we sit down and talk to a recruit and their parents it's as straight as it can be. Not to say some coaches may not be as straightforward as they should be but lying is counter productive to the program. I will say there may be some misunderstanding about certain aspects of the programs but I'm sure they are available to the athletes. It may be true that Coaches do not take players by the hand and walk them through such things as study halls and seeing advisors and many other things. It's up to the student to seek these things out. In some cases parents get second hand info from the player or they hear what they want to hear at the meetings. There are a lot of things that can be misinterpreted especially when a kid jumps from HS where everything is monitored and controlled and a kid just goes along for the ride.     

College coaches are trying to build a program where they can get their recruits through Admission.   Recruiting is selling pure and simple.   I wouldn't say coaches lie, but I would say they withhold information based on how much they want your son or they lead your son to believe something that isn't true.   Lying and misleading are dishonest (in my book) either way.   In very few cases did a RC or HC tell my son exactly what they meant.  It took us months to learn "coach-speak".   We became fluent in coach-speak.   In the latter stages of my son's recruitment we only believed what coaches did, not what they said.

You can always expect a Coach to sell his school on all the positives.  Rarely will you hear about the negatives from a coach unless you ask some very specific questions (after being burned before).  Best resources are current players that you know, former players and HSBBWeb.   it sounds like your son had a very bad experience...it happens.   You can either research some more and remediate what was said with the Coach or move on.    In a couple coaching misteps, my son just wanted to move on and we did.   I've met a few people on HSBBWeb that had the same issues with the same coaches.   It is a small world.

Good luck!

I guess my biggest two questions would be with regard to study hall and student advisors.   What size school are we talking about?   Roster size is easy....look at the past years, though you said you did your homework so I'd assume you saw them.  Nutrition?  Unless it's a P5, you're kind of on your own there.   As far as Coach engagement in academics. once the kid is enrolled, the only time a coach will likely be engaged in academics if if there is a problem.

Some do, I'm sure.  Most don't.  A lot stretch.  Some a little, a few a lot. But I think a lot of the "Coaches lie" talk has more to do with the receiver of the communication.

Coach says "With your ability, competitiveness and lots of hard work, I could see you get some innings, and maybe even a start as a freshman."

Recruit hears "I COULD START AS A FRESHMAN!"

Recruit says to family and friends "COACH OF STATE SAID I AM HIS WEEKEND STARTER AS A FRESHMAN!"

Buckeye 2015 posted:

I guess my biggest two questions would be with regard to study hall and student advisors.   What size school are we talking about?   Roster size is easy....look at the past years, though you said you did your homework so I'd assume you saw them.  Nutrition?  Unless it's a P5, you're kind of on your own there.   As far as Coach engagement in academics. once the kid is enrolled, the only time a coach will likely be engaged in academics if if there is a problem.

One of the D3 schools we visited had a nutritionist assigned just for the baseball team...... Great program.

While I'm not discounting the reality that the OP's son was lied to, a lot of times it really is a misinterpretation by the kid/parents.   And there is also this weird disconnect where most parents do not want to know the truth, they want to stay in their fantasy world version of what they think will happen.

Case in point, a friend of ours' kid just commited to a mid major this past weekend.  We were talking about the program and she said "of course, everybody on the roster plays..." Ummm, no, actually, they do not... 

I'm not sure what she thinks she heard during their visit & meeting with the coaches.  "Everybody plays in the Fall"?  "Everybody gets a chance to play"? "Everybody plays in practice"?  But when I tried to explain the reality of college Baseball to her, she took this sanctimonious tone with me, like I was clueless, so I just let it alone...

Lie is a very harsh definitive description, I personally wouldn't go there. I think there are a few that do, I mean we are humans find me a business where somebody isn't lying about something but in a general way I would say no. 

There were comments from Fenway about coach speak that I thought were extremely accurate. I think the more some coaches want a player the more likely it is that the grey area gets stretched. Fine line maybe but to make an accusation of lying it better very clear where they stepped over the line. 

Recruiters are essentially salesmen, the back office doesn't always back up what the salesmen say when you are buying. Unfortunately you have typically already purchased and it is to late. I got roasted on here years ago for stating that coaches are like used car salesmen...which I still believe.

There certainly good ones out there but it can be very difficult to figure it all out. 

3and2Fastball posted:

 

I'm not sure what she thinks she heard during their visit & meeting with the coaches.  "Everybody plays in the Fall"?  "Everybody gets a chance to play"? "Everybody plays in practice"?  But when I tried to explain the reality of college Baseball to her, she took this sanctimonious tone with me, like I was clueless, so I just let it alone...

YES, this is so accurate. However what she heard may be different then what was said, which also might be very different from how it actually is. Which will ultimately end up in a situation where the most likely result is neither the program or the player is happy with the result. 

Honestly it is a really bad business with some good people in it. 

You have to consider colleges compete for talent too and they lose many recruited athletes. I don't think a coach would fake interest if he saw no chance but he is probably holding some guys in the waiting line by making their chances look better. This isn't easy to plan always as you don't always know who will be available in the end considering things like athletes going elsewhere, the draft and injuries.

For example if the roster is full and 3 guys are ahead of you at your position instead of 1 he might not have lied but maybe just misjudged the amount of attrition.

I'm not sure what the coach promised, but coach engagement in academics is almost always non existent. He's there to coach a baseball team, your son's only responsibility is to stay eligible as far as he's concerned. As far as advisors, tutors, and study halls- if the team doesn't provide (usually only D1/D2) it, he still has an entire university full of resources to use. No study hall, go to library for 6 hours a week. No team tutor, go to office hours. No team academic advisor, school still supplies them. Want to get bigger, go to S&C coach he'll set you up with something. 

Do coaches lie? Sure. And if they win it doesn't matter. So if they bring in 50 kids and cut 15 well it doesn't matter that he lied or wasn't completely honest because the 15 cut players are no longer part of the program. 

If you did your "homework" and this many things are not lining up, the first place that I would Fact check is with my son.  If everything checks out there, then I would talk to others.  My experience has been very positive and all those things academically, nutrition, etc are available, but my son has to take initiative and request and/or schedule it himself most of the time.  

As far as roster size, ect , yes the coaches put the best impression forward, but you have to be able to read between the lines and look at past history (which is easy at most schools).  For example,  Yes, they would consider my son as a two way!  In reality- If his pitching isn't impressing us, then we may see if he can hit or vice versa. I knew that they weren't looking for a two way but it was nice to hear.  Roster size and cuts are almost entirely based on his performance regardless of what the coaches said. And I think that would pretty much apply at most schools.

I am sure that, just like anything, there are those that will take advantage and not be honest, but I have not heard much of it.  There are however some schools that are notorious for over recruiting but they are usually easy to spot.  they have 15  commitments in every graduating class, the numbers just don't work without alot of cuts/attrition.

Only when their lips are moving! 

Just joking folks!

I know there are those who will lie but as has been said they will not last long in the system.  There are what is said and what is heard as has been said and that normally falls on the player/parents to check reality.  There are very few coaches who legitimately allow pitchers to hit.  There are more that allow position players to pitch in situations.  The biggest problem I have found is knowing what questions to ask such as who was the best pitcher who hit last year? 

When it comes to academics and food and such, my son has learned that it is up to him.  They provide the resources but he has to take advantage of them.  He has to ask the questions and set the appointments.  The coaches are not at all involved in his academics because they have people who do that for them.  The only time the coach will talk to my son about academics is when it might be too late or close to it.  Son's school does bod pod's on him and talk to him about his eating habits but they do not enforce a diet.  He very rarely gets to eat in the cafeteria even though I have to pay for the meal plan for 3 meals a day.  Again, up to him to eat right. 

If they lied, that is one thing but I think you might need to talk to son about his choices.  Coaches expect them to be grown men who ask questions, be where they are supposed to be, do what they are supposed to do, and act right.  Not all do it but that is the expectation.

Re: study hall, student advisers, and academic support services. Besides the coach telling out about these they are usually spelled out in the student athlete handbook. Which should be online. 

First you need to tone it down. “Lies” is an accusation. Nothing positive will happen at the school by coming out firing accusations. It’s also not good for your son’s frame of mind. 

Roster size has a coaching history. It’s easy to verify. Playing time discussions in the recruiting process is where the coach’s best case scenario meets recruits and parents hearing what they want to hear (Go44 painted the scenario well).

All  recruiting is not equal. Some recruits have to fail their way out of the team plans with more opportunities than some will feel fair. Others will get minimal opportunity to be afforded another opportunity to prove their value.

Most coaches only concern regarding academics is eligibility. Mandatory study halls are good for the undisciplined. But if a player can’t discipline himself to study he’s not going to last long anyway. If a player needs tutoring help there are people in the athletic department accountable to players surviving academically. A poor team APR comes back to bite the program.

When dealing with issues if a player has to go past the coach because he’s not helping think through how it can come back to be a bite in the rear. My daughter played college softball. Statistically (from an anonymous NCAA poll) 40% of female D1 athletes prefer woman. My daughter got hit on a lot by teammates the beginning of freshman year. She went to the coach who was one of the 40%. The coach shrugged her off. My daughter had a sexual harassment situation on her hands with a coach unwilling to help. She had three options; 1) go over the coach’s head which would likely net out with her being off the team before it’s solved, 2) shut up and transfer or 3) shut up and deal with it. She chose #3. She also convinced a guy friend to show up at the end of practice a couple of times a week and act like a boyfriend. 

To net it out, 1) make sure you’re getting the truth from your son. He wouldn’t be the first kid to go off to college and tell his parents what they want to hear to protect himself from the truth. Some kids don’t handle the transition from parental oversight to quickly being responsible for themselves well. 2) Whatever the strategy is to clear up the issues think through how the coach perceives the situation. 3) Don’t sacrifice education. 

I think there is a communication problem of epidemic proportion regarding the recruiting process.  The recruitment of a player used to go thru the HS or JuCo HC of that player - and the HC would protect his players from being taken advantage of. That doesn’t happen much anymore. With the “advancement” of technology, and every player having a cell phone and social media accounts, the players are now directly accessible to any coach that wants to contact them. Combine that with all the outside influences (scouting services, over-zealous parents, etc.) and you have a system that overwhelmingly favors the recruiters. Now, add in the fact that a market imperfection exits with the supply of good players exceeding the demand (# of roster spots available) and you have a process that is brutal for the player being recruited. Coaches recruit for a living and do it every day. They are way better at the recruiting game than an 18-20 year old kid that does it once or twice in his life. In most cases nobody is holding the RCs accountable, so they are free to communicate only when it’s to their benefit, string kids along w/o giving honest feedback, etc.  All of this combines to make many people feel like they have not been treated fairly or honestly. It is a harsh reminder that college baseball is a business and some conduct it in a cold, hard manner while smiling and shaking your hand along the way. About all you can do is adopt a business mindset yourself and proceed accordingly. It’s a fine line to walk. The first critical thing is to not get married to any one school - especially early on. You also have to be realistic about which pond to fish in and this is where I see players make a mistake.   The next key (if you can do it) is to create competition for a players services by obtaining mutiple offers that you are willing to take. And then negotiating in a gentlemanly manner. I know that everyone is not that fortunate. No matter the circumstances you have to be very determined in doing your homework. 

Can you detail what you did to do your "homework"?  That would help those of us who have been through it to understand how there could be that big of a disconnect between what you and your son thought and what actually happened.  I am presuming your son is a freshman now having regrets from what he thought it would be and what it is, but please advise otherwise.

Did you look online at the roster history over the past 3-5 years?  It would be highly unusual for a school or coach to vary much on how many players he keeps each year, and roster churn or "cuts" should be easy to track as well.

Did your son visit the campus during the Fall practice or Spring season to eye his competition at his position and observe team chemistry and the coaching methods?  While he would not know of his incoming competition (unless he was able to track PG commitments), just watching the current team speaks volumes if a kid is objective about his prospects to play.

Did you and your son meet with the academic office and possibly attend a class in his planned major to anticipate what his schoolwork would be like and the department's willingness to work with athletes on scheduling conflicts?

When he visited the coach/recruiting coordinator, did he meet the training department and discuss workouts, nutrition and such?  Ask what the expectations are for weight lifting and conditioning?

From my 2017's experience, these activities were all essential to him sorting out options, and he was able to identify some coach BS speak before it was too late.  It became pretty obvious who was sincere and truthful and who was just trying to pad his roster and the school's enrollment.

This may not be the scenario here. But, getting back to “go where you’re loved versus where they’re interested ...

It’s important to be able to discern during recruiting if the coach is communicating he has plans for the player or he sees him as third string insurance. The problem with being thIrd string insurance is the player has to wait for his turn and he better produce every appearance even if it’s one at bat, pinch running, an inning in the field or facing one hitter in the mound. Even then success is probably only earning another opportunity again prove possible value. If the player doesn’t break through before the end of the season into a valued role he’s now in line behind some of the following year’s recruits. Or possibly told he’s not needed to return. 

If I saw all the issues the original poster sees as real i’d already be reevaluating my decision. I’d have one foot in work real hard and one foot in considering a transfer. The reason I say this is I’ve never heard anyone complain about roster size who feels things are going well.

wareagle posted:

 

I am sure that, just like anything, there are those that will take advantage and not be honest, but I have not heard much of it.  There are however some schools that are notorious for over recruiting but they are usually easy to spot.  they have 15  commitments in every graduating class, the numbers just don't work without alot of cuts/attrition.

 

I’m not real sure, but almost every D1 program seems to have 15 commitments and that’s before you add juco and transfers. Out of that usually within 2 years only 5 or 6 may survive...that’s how the numbers work from what I’ve seen. Studying the roster and how everyone on it got there will give you an idea how this works...I don’t think it’s lying as much as talking to what your audience wants to hear

Given the constantly fluid nature of the recruiting environment, today's truthful representation by a coach can become tomorrow's misstatement, literally overnight. Here are a few of the dynamics, none of which are within the coaching staff's control: (1) the draft as it affects high school seniors, (2) the draft as it affects 21-year-olds on the program's roster, (3) academic ineligibility, (4) team/school infractions, (5) health/injury issues, (6) transfer decisions, (7) decisions made by recruited players and their families.

At any given time, virtually all of these are in play to some extent. The constantly changing landscape and the uncertainty it creates is a nightmare to recruit into. The vast majority of coaches are well-intentioned and not out to deceive players and their families. More often than not, they're trying to do the best they can to represent their situation on that particular day; with the knowledge that future circumstances can alter that representation.

During the recruiting process my wife summed it up perfectly. "All of these coaches are a bunch of used car salesmen" 

Approach recruiting with this understanding. 

Prepster posted:

Given the constantly fluid nature of the recruiting environment, today's truthful representation by a coach can become tomorrow's misstatement, literally overnight. Here are a few of the dynamics, none of which are within the coaching staff's control: (1) the draft as it affects high school seniors, (2) the draft as it affects 21-year-olds on the program's roster, (3) academic ineligibility, (4) team/school infractions, (5) health/injury issues, (6) transfer decisions, (7) decisions made by recruited players and their families.

At any given time, virtually all of these are in play to some extent. The constantly changing landscape and the uncertainty it creates is a nightmare to recruit into. The vast majority of coaches are well-intentioned and not out to deceive players and their families. More often than not, they're trying to do the best they can to represent their situation on that particular day; with the knowledge that future circumstances can alter that representation.

That’s a good job of describing the challenges from the point of view of the college coaching staff, and those are very real.

However, over-recruiting is rampant. It is being done everywhere. The only variable is the degree to which it’s being done. One thing that isn’t widely known is that many coaches receive financial incentive to over- recruit non-scholarship players as that brings more tuition income to the school. An NAIA HC told me that he gets a bonus for every kid he brings in over a certain number (I think it was 70). Last time I looked there were 120 kids in that program. Any school that has a JV program is using it raise tuition revenue. It is not a stepping stone to develop players. The overwhelming majority of people that are accepting “preferred walk-on” & walk-on positions are making this mistake. If you don’t receive a scholarship (assuming the school can offer one) then you don’t factor into future plans at that school. It’s that simple. It’s much better to get realistic about where you can actually get on the field if baseball is an important part of your college decision.  I see way too many HS players (and parents) who are not realistic about where they can get on the field. They make poor decisions and then wonder why it didn’t work out. 

I think one of the big keys is also when players are being recruited.  My son was recruited when he was a freshman and sophomore.  4 years from when he started.  A lot changes in 4 years.  The recruiting philosophy may change.  They may go from just recruiting HS players to bringing in a large number of JUCO players each year.  The program may change with coaching staff.   The school set-up may change.  They are giving you the best case scenario and you must read into that how it affects your child and the worst case scenario.  I don't think many D1 schools intentionally over sign but they may over recruit because they don't know the variables that will change.  As has been stated, players leave, players get drafted, HS recruits get drafted, HS recruits decommit.  I think players who agree to be a walk-on and a preferred walk-on read too much into that in today's world.   There is no guarantee from the school or coaches other than you get to be a part of the fall for preferred and do everything and walk-ons think that means something but it just means you get a chance to make the team. 

I agree with ADBONO if no money no commitment.  My son was offered preferred walk-on with the statement that overall it is more money than you will get from the scholarship out of state because of lottery money and instate scholarships.  My response to son was no money no investment.  I also know and have said as ADBONO that any team with JV overrecruits because they have to.  Don't see it as HS JV.  It is a money making deal and they have no place for most maybe 5% will ever move from JV to V in college.

Walk on stories sound great coming from the CWS announcers. But what is the ratio of walk on success stories versus “the coach misrepresented the situation” stories. 

The reality is the misrepresentation is typically what went in the recruited player and parents ears and what registered in their brain (aka hearing what you want to hear). 

"However, over-recruiting is rampant. It is being done everywhere. The only variable is the degree to which it’s being done. One thing that isn’t widely known is that many coaches receive financial incentive to over- recruit non-scholarship players as that brings more tuition income to the school. An NAIA HC told me that he gets a bonus for every kid he brings in over a certain number (I think it was 70). Last time I looked there were 120 kids in that program. Any school that has a JV program is using it raise tuition revenue. It is not a stepping stone to develop players. The overwhelming majority of people that are accepting “preferred walk-on” & walk-on positions are making this mistake. If you don’t receive a scholarship (assuming the school can offer one) then you don’t factor into future plans at that school. It’s that simple. It’s much better to get realistic about where you can actually get on the field if baseball is an important part of your college decision.  I see way too many HS players (and parents) who are not realistic about where they can get on the field. They make poor decisions and then wonder why it didn’t work out."

Adbono's point regarding the reality of over-recruiting should be "shouted from the mountaintops" to all potential baseball recruits.  College baseball is a different animal than most of the other sports, especially the headcount sports.  If a baseball recruit does not not receive athletic aid (other than DIII), he should assume that he does NOT fit into the future plans of the coach/program and that he will NOT see much (if any) playing time and he should be 1,000% (that's more than 100% LOL) sure that he would be happy at the school without baseball.  Then with DIII, there's still over-recruiting and that is even harder to decipher - all the more important to make sure the school is a great fit without baseball.

Personally I think over-recruiting and fielding JV teams to allure students who otherwise would not attend an institution (i.e., for their tuition dollars) is pretty weak, and in some instances can border on the shameful if the Coach is not forthcoming about the likelihood of no playing time and staying on the JV team.  In some instances, the potential student athlete may have the maturity to completely understand the score and know that he is just there to be part of a team and keep "playing" a sport he loves (although he will never see the field).  But I suspect most young men that age believe that they will start playing JV, then get moved up and ultimately earn a starting position.  Much more likely is they are a practice or JV player only, do not travel with the team, the HC hardly even knows their names, etc.  Then there comes the day of reckoning - is it worth the time and effort to be a JV or practice, non-travel player, and do I really want to be at this school without baseball?

QHEAD, quick question. Does your point also apply to Patriot league schools?  They are usually working with 1.5 full scholarships or something like that.  They seem to lead with "we have no money" a lot! 

Not sure about over-recruiting in the Patriot League - there are some folks here who would have firsthand knowledge of that and hopefully they can reply.  It would certainly be a good idea to do as much homework as possible on the program in question in any event, just to try to make sure your son is going in with his eyes as open as possible.  That is always a good idea regardless of what intel you may glean here.

Army and Navy are entities unto themselves.  The other programs I suspect do not over-recruit as much as the P5 as there are less players being drafted.  And the schools in the Patriot League are very well regarded academically, have no shortage of applicants, and therefore presumably do not need to "use" baseball to attract students who otherwise would not enroll there.  So my guess would be that over-recruiting is not a big issue in the Patriot League, but again hopefully someone more informed can advise!

Qhead posted:

Not sure about over-recruiting in the Patriot League - there are some folks here who would have firsthand knowledge of that and hopefully they can reply.  It would certainly be a good idea to do as much homework as possible on the program in question in any event, just to try to make sure your son is going in with his eyes as open as possible.  That is always a good idea regardless of what intel you may glean here.

Army and Navy are entities unto themselves.  The other programs I suspect do not over-recruit as much as the P5 as there are less players being drafted.  And the schools in the Patriot League are very well regarded academically, have no shortage of applicants, and therefore presumably do not need to "use" baseball to attract students who otherwise would not enroll there.  So my guess would be that over-recruiting is not a big issue in the Patriot League, but again hopefully someone more informed can advise!

As a parent of a Patriot League player at one of the non-military schools, I can say there is little if any over-recruiting.  It can occur to some extent but is not a routine practice year to year at any given school.  Probably a majority of the players who are playing regularly are not receiving athletic scholarship aid. So yes, the broad generalization about not seeing playing time or fitting into the coaches plans if athletic dollars aren't offered doesn't apply in the PL, as the athletic scholarship money is so limited.

Had a conversation Monday night w/ Dad of a freshman C at a D2 powerhouse. Kid was somewhat recruited but Dad is an alum so it wasn’t straight forward. Dad had a hand in it. Kid received academic scholarship but no baseball $. According to Dad they were told repeatedly that son was only freshman C they signed. Kid shows up on campus a month ago and is told he is on JV and needs to raise $500 to keep his spot. Varsity roster shows 3 catchers one of which is a freshman. After the fact investigation shows this kid signed LOI back on November 1, 2018. Dad is furious claiming he was blatantly lied to on a number of occasions. Kid is realizing that there is no opportunity for him at this school. They are looking for a JuCo to transfer to over semester break. There are a few things to take away from this story:     1. Don’t expect special treatment as an alumnus.                                                           2. Fact check before you commit.                 3. It does no good to use personal contacts to get into a program that your kid isn’t good enough to play for.                 4. Close to 50% of position players that commit to a D1 or D2 program out of HS are at a JuCo by their Sophomore year. It makes sense to me for more kids to start there. 

Maybe it is different in D2/D3/NAIA.  We looked at who was committed and who was there and where my son fit in comparison number wise with the ones like him.  Specifically, we looked at how many LHP's there were that could possibly be there when he arrived and how many were being recruited in his class and at the time the class before him.  We then looked at their numbers if we did not know them to see where he fit in the competition.  I have always said that before you get to compete against the guys wearing the other jerseys you have to beat out the guys wearing the same jerseys.  If you can't do that, then you might not need to go there.  We saw there were guys who had better velo but walks/strikes ratio was higher and ability to pitch for 6-9 innings was not there so son felt like he could compete.  We also turned down some offers from similar SEC schools because he felt like it would be really tough to get playing time of any caliber his freshman year.  There were schools that had 10+ LHP's. 

They talked about him being able to be a 2-way guy and we looked at their numbers of pitchers who hit at the staff's previous schools because it is not just the HC's philosophy but the PC's philosophy.  They were straight forward and said it was not going to be easy and it has not been.  He has put in 2 hours a day after regular practice to have a chance to swing a bat.  Many of the pitchers who thought they wanted to be a 2way guy have given up due to the extra time and effort. 

I just don't think most coaches lie but they don't tell the whole truth (which my grandmother called a lie).  They don't always say how much effort it will take.  But if you do your homework you will know that it is not easy and will take a lot of work to be a good student and a good baseball player.  If you add 2-way guy into that then you are talking an additional 2 hours a day at the field.  If you are talking a high academic or tough field of study, then you are talking an additional 2 hours a day of study/work.  I don't think people really understand how hard being a student athlete is, even when they are told.  It is a full-time job and more.  My son was at the field yesterday from 1:15-8:45.  And it is close to that every day so far this fall between practice (pitching drills/bullpens), batting workout, lifting, and additional workouts.

NEDAD18 posted:

Qhead posted:

Not sure about over-recruiting in the Patriot League - there are some folks here who would have firsthand knowledge of that and hopefully they can reply.  It would certainly be a good idea to do as much homework as possible on the program in question in any event, just to try to make sure your son is going in with his eyes as open as possible.  That is always a good idea regardless of what intel you may glean here.

Army and Navy are entities unto themselves.  The other programs I suspect do not over-recruit as much as the P5 as there are less players being drafted.  And the schools in the Patriot League are very well regarded academically, have no shortage of applicants, and therefore presumably do not need to "use" baseball to attract students who otherwise would not enroll there.  So my guess would be that over-recruiting is not a big issue in the Patriot League, but again hopefully someone more informed can advise!

As a parent of a Patriot League player at one of the non-military schools, I can say there is little if any over-recruiting.  It can occur to some extent but is not a routine practice year to year at any given school.  Probably a majority of the players who are playing regularly are not receiving athletic scholarship aid. So yes, the broad generalization about not seeing playing time or fitting into the coaches plans if athletic dollars aren't offered doesn't apply in the PL, as the athletic scholarship money is so limited.

Agree with this.  In general, Patriot League schools do not have baseball money.  I think Bucknell and Lafayette may each have two scholarships available.  

I found that most coaches who misled my daughter and I during the recruiting process often believed what they said when they said it.  For example, one school in the Missouri Valley Conference made an offer but had to cut that offer after about a year of recruitment.  Between that time and the cut, the softball program lost a couple of scholarships.  Also, at mid and lower D-Is or other universities at various levels of NCAA play, those schools often are not fully funded in the first place.  Therefore, for them to attract that outstanding pitcher, sometimes they have to reduce offers and make cuts to those on scholarship.  Other than one coach we encountered during the process, I would never classify any of those coaches as liars.  

The topic of coach integrity often arises here. When it does, it frequently spills into the topic of over-recruiting.

I don't like the term much because I don't know what it means, so I thought I'd re-post some comments I made longer ago than people are likely to unearth through a normal search:

On "Over-Recruiting" at D3's:

It's a fact of life at better D3 schools that the absence of athletic scholarships and national letters of intent means the coach never knows who is really coming and never feels like he can stop recruiting.
Any D3 coach who wants to win is probably recruiting with the goal of creating competition for every roster spot, every position, and every role. If the coach is doing his job, good players will fail to make the roster and excellent players will be sitting on the bench.
That's why so many freshman who had realistic D1 aspirations at some point in high school are surprised when they show up at a D3 and don't play.
It's probable that coaches at extremely expensive and selective schools have had many promising prospects slip through their fingers over the years, so it's understandable they might want a bigger cushion for no shows.
Is that over-recruiting? Not necessarily.
I wouldn't pin the pejorative "over-recruit" label on any coach without strong evidence he's not being on the level with the prospects about the situation they'll face when they arrive on campus.

On "Over-Recruiting" at D1's:

It is unrealistic to expect college coaches:  a) to turn away players who may be able to contribute and are willing to "commit" without a scholarship offer, or b) not to attempt some form of yield management to anticipate pre-enrollment losses and avoid leaving scholarship dollars on the table.
Some coaches will be more aggressive than others, but I don't know where to draw a line and say a certain level of aggressiveness is okay but any more than that constitutes over-recruiting.
What players and parents can do is look at the numbers and make a realistic assessment of where they stand in a school's recruiting class. 
If your son is contemplating a commitment to a school where 50% attrition among first year players is a mathematical necessity, you should have second thoughts unless the size of the scholarship offer and the level of pro interest give you a solid basis for believing your player really is in the top half of the recruiting class.
If your son is not going to be one of their top recruits, he might want to look more closely at the 280+ D1 schools that are not in the top 20 and would love to have some of the cream that the top 20 schools skim off and cast aside.
Many lesser known D1's sign fewer than ten recruits in the early signing period and don't bring in so many walk-ons that they need to make cuts during fall practice.
Many players at the back of the bullpen or the end of the bench at those top schools can be starters at other D1's.
Use the market inefficiency to your advantage. Go where you can compete and play.

 Hope these recycled thoughts help.

Best wishes,

Swampboy is pretty much on the money. As a D3 program, when we recruit we have our go to guys. We focus on 8 to 10 that we would love to have. Unfortunately there is not much to keep them from jumping ship so we need to spread the net out wider. Of those 8 to 10 maybe 4 will fully commit since the D3 landscape is like the wild west with offers coming from every direction. I guess instead of looking at it as over recruiting, especially at D3, just ask the question " how many kids will be at open tryouts". We may have 30 or so kids show up that we don't even know. And some of those kids will stick at the peril of returners and recruits. It's never a sure thing. Yes at D1 it's less likely that the walk ons will uproot the returners and recruits but at D3 anything can happen.  

I'd be curious to hear a little more detail about the issues the OP raised, only one of which related to roster size and cuts...

"Details about roster size, cuts, study hall, student advisors, nutrition plans and coach engagement in the academics are all not lining up with what he was told."

Smitty28 posted:

I'd be curious to hear a little more detail about the issues the OP raised, only one of which related to roster size and cuts...

"Details about roster size, cuts, study hall, student advisors, nutrition plans and coach engagement in the academics are all not lining up with what he was told."

I don't think your curiosity will be satisfied. OP appears to have de-activated her account. 

Swampboy posted:

Smitty28 posted:

I'd be curious to hear a little more detail about the issues the OP raised, only one of which related to roster size and cuts...

"Details about roster size, cuts, study hall, student advisors, nutrition plans and coach engagement in the academics are all not lining up with what he was told."

I don't think your curiosity will be satisfied. OP appears to have de-activated her account. 

 Another ... I didn’t get reinforcement of my beliefs. So I’ll go look elsewhere for it. OR, she drove to the college, shook her son silly while screaming, “Tell me the truth.”