Great topic.
A MLB coach we know that had about 50 yrs with one team tells they boys he is coaching, "If you love to play, work hard at it and never quit. Never stop playing because someone tells you you aren't any good, play until no one will let you play anymore."
His favorite speach the opening day of training camp is a classic. For the incoming and pitchers, it goes, "How many of you guys had an ERA less than 1.00 last year? (hands go up) How many had an ERA less than 2.00 or 3.00? (lots more hands) Look around boys, those batters aren't here!" He would later flip it around and give the same talk to the batters.
Ive read all the post here on this thread and I dont see any parent bashing at all. I see people offering their honest opinions based on their experiences. To say that their are not parents out there that have no idea what is outside their little area is ridiculous. Most if not all the parents on this site probaly do not fall into this category. The mere fact you are on this site shows that you are searching and reaching outside that comfort zone that many do not. I cant count the times I have had parents tell me that their son was an ALL Star in the rec league and is a great short stop etc. They are sure that he will sign with a top school. The kid has never played a game outside his county. The kid might make the JV and when hes a Jr he is out of the program and they are shocked. Ive had kids that were average HS players never hit over .300 and never made A/C and the parents cant understand why no colleges are interested in them. It must be the coaches fault for not pushing him with the scouts. There are a ton of parents out there (not here) that are totally clueless and that is a fact. Maybe not in your neck of the woods but in mine YES. How many of these parents have ever seen a College game at any level? How many of these parents have ever seen a high level AAU game or been to any showcase event? The majority of my parents baseball background consists of local rec ball. If their son was one of the best in this league in their mind he is one of the best period. That is not parent bashing that is stating the facts based upon experience.
I think Coach May just summed it up very well. I couldn't agree more with what he says just above.
I deal with parents all the time who've never been outside our area and think their son or that of a friend is all everything, and I view that same kid as someone who wouldn't even make the roster of many of the summer teams we see and play against. That's not to knock them, they've just never seen really good players at larger competitive events.
As the father of an '06, I'm staring straight ahead at the really big seperation after next year, COLLEGE baseball. For every kid who plays HS ball his senior year, very few play past that point. Most of the parents I know have no realistic idea of their son's chances of playing on, or how to go about playing beyond HS. Most of the parents and players don't have any idea of how to go about ensuring they get every opportunity to play beyond HS. We have 7 seniors on our HS varsity, and two of them will play college baseball at some level. One will likely play NAIA and the other might possibly play D-2, but that is also because he's a LHP and has a GPA above 4.0. He's likely going to get some academic money, but the several schools that are interested are waiting to see what kind of senior season he compiles. There are at least two more seniors who think they will be playing in college and one of them thinks he has a legitimate chance of getting drafted and IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN. They really have no realistic idea of what it takes or the true talent level they need to compete against successfully.
A final example of how so many lack understanding is a story one of my assistant coaches told me. This coach is 20 yrs. old and plays for a local Jr. College. I brought him on to our team last summer to give my players a different perspective than the older coaches bring, since he's playing at a level they all aspire to reach or exceed; and to also give him an opportunity to experience baseball from the "other side" compared to being a player. This fellow called me when his JC had tryouts for the fall baseball season. He said over 150 players showed up trying to make the team. I asked him how many roster spots were actaully available and the answer was that maybe three or four spots would be won at tryouts. The rest were returning players, tranfers into the program or recruits from high school that the JC coach had invited. There were a whole bunch of young men out there who didn't really have a clue that they were trying out for a team with almost no spots available. More than a few walked away after being cut, wondering why they didn't make it. That's very unfortunate.
I deal with parents all the time who've never been outside our area and think their son or that of a friend is all everything, and I view that same kid as someone who wouldn't even make the roster of many of the summer teams we see and play against. That's not to knock them, they've just never seen really good players at larger competitive events.
As the father of an '06, I'm staring straight ahead at the really big seperation after next year, COLLEGE baseball. For every kid who plays HS ball his senior year, very few play past that point. Most of the parents I know have no realistic idea of their son's chances of playing on, or how to go about playing beyond HS. Most of the parents and players don't have any idea of how to go about ensuring they get every opportunity to play beyond HS. We have 7 seniors on our HS varsity, and two of them will play college baseball at some level. One will likely play NAIA and the other might possibly play D-2, but that is also because he's a LHP and has a GPA above 4.0. He's likely going to get some academic money, but the several schools that are interested are waiting to see what kind of senior season he compiles. There are at least two more seniors who think they will be playing in college and one of them thinks he has a legitimate chance of getting drafted and IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN. They really have no realistic idea of what it takes or the true talent level they need to compete against successfully.
A final example of how so many lack understanding is a story one of my assistant coaches told me. This coach is 20 yrs. old and plays for a local Jr. College. I brought him on to our team last summer to give my players a different perspective than the older coaches bring, since he's playing at a level they all aspire to reach or exceed; and to also give him an opportunity to experience baseball from the "other side" compared to being a player. This fellow called me when his JC had tryouts for the fall baseball season. He said over 150 players showed up trying to make the team. I asked him how many roster spots were actaully available and the answer was that maybe three or four spots would be won at tryouts. The rest were returning players, tranfers into the program or recruits from high school that the JC coach had invited. There were a whole bunch of young men out there who didn't really have a clue that they were trying out for a team with almost no spots available. More than a few walked away after being cut, wondering why they didn't make it. That's very unfortunate.
We try very hard to educate our players and parents about the level a kid must be at in order to play past HS. We also talk about grades and the work ethic that will be required once in a program. What amazes me is the kids that have absolutely no work ethic in HS, they are four month players. And they think that they are going to survive in a College program?
Typically, although it varies from year to year, 6 seniors from our HS move on to college ball each year. Usually 1 or 2 of those play D1 ball and the rest end up at a JC. It is rare for more than one player to be drafted and many years none are drafted.
I would say that we average about 2 kids per year that move on to the next level. Some years we have had three or four and some years only one. We have had a couple of kids drafted but yes that is rare. In every case the ones that have gone on to play at the next level had a great work ethic. Yes they were talented but the overiding factor was that they were dedicated and worked hard at baseball all year or at least 9 to 10 months out of the year. Some of the most talented kids we have had never played past HS. They got complacent or lazy or just didnt want to put the work in that is necessary to compete at the next level. Talent is never enough. Right now in our program we have the most talent at one time we have ever had. Most of it is young in the Soph and Fresh class. But they also have the best work ethic we have ever had as well. It will be fun to see how it all turns out down the road. Looking forward to this season right now. We play next Tuesday in a scrimmage.
This is a very interesting thread and lots of good points have been made. The one thing that has come out in some of the posts that I want to emphasize is that there is absolutely nothing wrong with encouraging kids to pursue their dream as far as they can go and to not walk away until they know they have given it their best shot. In addition to the late bloomers there are players who didn't learn to believe in themselves as early as others and there are those who, through shear determination, went farther than anyone ever predicted even though they never did "bloom."
To me the saddest stories are the good but not great players who could have played in college but who gave up on their dream because they became convinced they didn't have the tools to play professionally or at a high-level division 1 school, which is all some people look to for comparison. Often it is because some "expert" told them their 7.3 60 wouldn't cut it at the next level, or they just ddin't have the power, or their 83 MPH fastball just wasn't good enough. I am convinced there are lots of players who could go on to play at some level in college who give up before they had to because they didn't get the right encouragement and guidance along the way. I know of a local player here who started three games his whole high school career but then walked on to make the team as a freshman at a mid-level D1 school. All because he believed in himself and never gave up, and no one close to him ever told him he wasn't good enough.
The expert advice I hope the "good but not great" players get is this: "Son, I'll be straight with you. You don't have the level of talent that some kids do - you run a 7.3, others run a 6.5; you throw 82, others throw 94; you have hit two homeruns in your career, others have hit dozens; you have a 2.1 pop time, others have 1.85 times; you bench press 160; others bench press 250. Now, if you look at those numbers and say, 'I'll never get there, I might as well quit now,' then that is exactly what you should do. But if you look at those numbers and say, 'why are we wasting time talking, I have a lot of work to do,' and then get out there and work your butt off every day to be as good as you can be, I'll just bet you'll find a place to play for a lot longer than some people think you will.
To me the saddest stories are the good but not great players who could have played in college but who gave up on their dream because they became convinced they didn't have the tools to play professionally or at a high-level division 1 school, which is all some people look to for comparison. Often it is because some "expert" told them their 7.3 60 wouldn't cut it at the next level, or they just ddin't have the power, or their 83 MPH fastball just wasn't good enough. I am convinced there are lots of players who could go on to play at some level in college who give up before they had to because they didn't get the right encouragement and guidance along the way. I know of a local player here who started three games his whole high school career but then walked on to make the team as a freshman at a mid-level D1 school. All because he believed in himself and never gave up, and no one close to him ever told him he wasn't good enough.
The expert advice I hope the "good but not great" players get is this: "Son, I'll be straight with you. You don't have the level of talent that some kids do - you run a 7.3, others run a 6.5; you throw 82, others throw 94; you have hit two homeruns in your career, others have hit dozens; you have a 2.1 pop time, others have 1.85 times; you bench press 160; others bench press 250. Now, if you look at those numbers and say, 'I'll never get there, I might as well quit now,' then that is exactly what you should do. But if you look at those numbers and say, 'why are we wasting time talking, I have a lot of work to do,' and then get out there and work your butt off every day to be as good as you can be, I'll just bet you'll find a place to play for a lot longer than some people think you will.
DodgerBlues,
(IMO) That was a great post! Everyone should read that one!
Even the Big Leagues has many players who followed the same advice you're giving.
(IMO) That was a great post! Everyone should read that one!
Even the Big Leagues has many players who followed the same advice you're giving.
Exactly.
If I had a dollar everytime Eckstein got cut or was told the same thing, well.....
If I had a dollar everytime Eckstein got cut or was told the same thing, well.....
Dogerblues,
I have been staying away from this thread because I didn't quite know how to phrase what I was feeling. You have clearly posted what I wished I could have said. I agree with PG, this is one of the best posts I have read in a long time.
Maybe my son is only a good player as you describe, but because of his heart (he is ten times the person that I ever was), I am going to do everything in my power to keep the dream alive until everyone tells him to hang it up.
Thanks for sharing your insights.
I have been staying away from this thread because I didn't quite know how to phrase what I was feeling. You have clearly posted what I wished I could have said. I agree with PG, this is one of the best posts I have read in a long time.
Maybe my son is only a good player as you describe, but because of his heart (he is ten times the person that I ever was), I am going to do everything in my power to keep the dream alive until everyone tells him to hang it up.
Thanks for sharing your insights.
DB
Great post as always....
Pops
Great post as always....
Pops
Just get past the gatekeepers and do your thing. In reference to a previous post about a conversation between two scouts.
The player was Kevin Millar.
The player was Kevin Millar.
Dodgerblues... Well said!
Well Dodgerblues, I've got to hand it to you for great thoughts. And coming from a die-hard Giants fan, that's saying something!