Do Scouts Prefer Pitching Speed or Accuracy?

I think the scouts in general look at both accuracy and speed, but then factor in other pitching qualities. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

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1) Is throwing speed something that's hard to achieve if one starts late?

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Sometimes it's all mechanical, however, some bodies were not built for power.

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2) Have you seen many really wild youngsters become highly accurate eventually?

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Maybe this is just a personal assessment but it seems to me that many times those kids who could throw hard and wild as kids are no longer involved in the game. Those who threw with accuracy seemed more willing to work on their game, thus found more success. I would think that is associated with a kids mental make up. I think the numbers would tell you that those kids who physically mature at an earlier age tend to be under achievers later on when they rest of the age group catches up.

micdsguy,

Starting late has less to do with throwing speed than natural ability. I've seen many pitchers who started late and have great velocity. There are some in professional baseball.

Yes, there are many examples of young wild pitchers improving and ending up with good control. There’s also been a few examples of young pitchers with good control who have lost that good control.

I’m not positive which is easier to improve because both can be improved. But if you’re talking about enough improvement to become a professional prospect, then velocity has to be the answer.

Most everyone can improve control and while everyone can also improve velocity, velocity is more of a natural talent or gift. Some people were never meant to throw a baseball 90 mph and they never will, no matter how hard they work at it. Make that almost everyone that we all know!

Anyway, that’s my opinion. Might be wrong!

" Most everyone can improve control and while everyone can also improve velocity, velocity is more of a natural talent or gift. Some people were never meant to throw a baseball 90 mph and they never will, no matter how hard they work at it. Make that almost everyone that we all know!"

I don't quote people that often. Well put!

I know that virtually everyone feels that throwing 90 has much to do with genetics (and practice of course). But I know one pitcher who has become pretty fast just by working hard. He was probably the slowest (but most accurate) pitcher on his grade school teams. But very driven to play well.

It would be interesting to survey major league pitchers about how fast they were early on. Were they little marvels when they first threw in 3rd grade?

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The only real speed prodigy I recall was on a 6th grade team. He was maybe 6-8 mph faster than any other kid on the team. He coudn't handle pressure and never played baseball again.

micdsguy,

Throwing harder than the other 3rd graders is a different thing than someday throwing 90 mph or better.

Kids develop at different ages. Hard work is, of course, very important. My only point is that not everyone is physically capable of someday throwing that hard. Some have worked very hard and can't do it, others have worked very little and can do it.

One thing for sure, no one knows, for sure, who can or can't while there in grade school. Unless, they're already doing it at that age.

There are many cases of the not so good grade school players/pitchers becoming the best player/pitcher as young adults. Also, many cases of the very best grade school player/pitcher being out of the game when they become young adults.

Agree with what PG and Mrs Paw are saying - simply put - everyone has a natural limit as to how fast they can throw a baseball. Some reach this limit with very little effort - others must work very hard to maximize their velocity WITH RESPECT TO THERE LIMIT. Some kids throw 85 and no amount of work will get them past it, if that is there physical/genetic makeup; other kid can be throwing 92, but if he worked at it, could hit 97. The limit is nothing we have control over - how close we get to it is indeed under our control.

Back to the original post, however - what is more attractive? How does a kid get noticed who does nothing but get people out, even though he only might only top out at low-mid 80s?? How do you interest a scout/coach in a HS junior who is only hitting 80, but has superb control and change of speeds?

JMO,
Velocity is more attractive in general but I've got to believe that scouts can tell the difference between a kid who just throws as hard as he can and hits 92 with little or no control and a kid who can paint the corners at 86 all day long and pop one in at 89 or 90 when he needs to.

I think the second kid would get more interest from most scouts. Now if the second kid was painting the corners at 83 and throwing the high hard one at 86 or 87 he might be very effective in college but get very little interest from the pro scouts. Just speculation on my part.

windmill ...

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Back to the original post, however - what is more attractive? How does a kid get noticed who does nothing but get people out, even though he only might only top out at low-mid 80s?? How do you interest a scout/coach in a HS junior who is only hitting 80, but has superb control and change of speeds?

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IMHO, they generally are not noticed as high school juniors ... unless they are 6'6" LHP's

All kidding aside, from personal experience, I would suggest that these kids are the ones who (1) go on to college, (2) continue to throw with control, (3) increase their velocity a bit during the course of their college career, (4) take some personal steps to improve their chances at a pro career (e.g., working out and improving their physiques), (5) get noticed in their junior and senior seasons, and (6) prove themselves as they move thru the minor league system.

Again, JMHO

Both velocity and command draw interest. There are 50 rounds in the draft and if you start at the top, velocity, command, delivery, athletic ability, fielding ability, mound presence, temperment, competitive spirit, stamina and a few other things come in to play. Each round you go down the requirements lessen a little.

Good info - from our perspective, we're more concerned with college coaches. Unless something drastic happens [picks up 10-15mph] Windmill Jr is NOT a pro prospect. His goal is to play college baseball at the highest level possible - if that is D - great, D3 - so be it. It is good to note some of the characteristics you listed BBScout - I always felt that some of those thinsg should count for somehting, but not thinsg that are discussed a whole lot [mound presence, temperament, command, etc]. Maybe there is hope!!

Have to have velocity to generate a scout's interest in you.

No velocity equals no interest.

Doesn't matter what anyone says.

If you still have at least adequate speed, you can still get noticed if you are among the rare few that have a strike out pitch in your arsenal causing your strike out ratio to be exceptional.

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No velocity equals no interest.

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I would only qualify no velocity as not touching 90, unless you...

A) Have a projectable body type, tall lanky 6-4+ and are close to 90. If so you are possibly a DFE candidate.

or

B) Throw very well with the wrong hand, a lefty.

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Originally posted by bbscout:
Each round you go down the requirements lessen a little.

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When you get to the 2000th round, let me know, I'll be waiting by the phone.

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DFE candidate

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What does that stand for?

DFE = Draft, Follow, Evaluate

Basically the same thing as known as Draft and Follow which usually happens to kids drafted in the later rounds.

Hey thanks, FrankF

Looked up DFE in Google and found several mentions but none that defined it. Been pounding my brain for the past 2 hours. Figured it must mean something pretty obvious, but it doesn't. Learned something new this year!

Throwing 90+ is god given. However, I also believe that most good athletes have been given this ability. Most just didn't utilize and train themselves over the long years to develop into a 90+ throwing pitcher. They played football, basketball or whatever. (So, yeh, given the premise that you are a naturally good athlete, I believe you can teach that kid to throw 90+; been-there, done-that).

I believe that the first thing a scout looks for is velocity.The radar gun rules-the faster you throw,the more interest in you.My son in juco,was talking to a major league scout who told him the first thing the scout looks for is
velocity.The pitcher who does not throw as hard,but has good control and movement on many pitchers will always get drafted lower,but they
may be the ones that are successful.As time goes
on,the only thing that matters is getting batters out.The trick is,you have to have velocity to get your foot in the door to begin
with.

I had a good discussion with a scouting director during my son's recruitment. I asked why they were recruiting him and what were they were looking at. Although they were recruiting him as a catcher I think the scouting director's answer could apply to just about any position. He said: "We like your son because he has things that can't be taught. The areas that he need improvemnt can be taught." To me this is a description of projectability.
Scouts have a tough job. After you get past the top couple of rounds, I get the impression it's fairly easy to eliminate players because of a "weakness" and quite complicated to recognize players with potential.
Fungo

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Do Scouts Prefer Pitching Speed or Accuracy?

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The answer is undeniable. Both would be preferred.

Is one more desireable than the other? You cannot be extreme on either of them if you are extremely slow, then you will not get noticed no matter how accurate you are.

If you throw very hard and cannot put it over the plate, you will get some notice, but you will also get a lot of skeptcism.

So to answer your question speed is the better tool from the standpoint of your question. Even if you cannot throw a strike, you will get scouted and crosschecked and may even get signed.

If you have no velocity and throw very accurately, you will drop like a rock and get drafted later or not at all.

Neither of these took into account projectability.

I think velocity catches the eye before accuracy. I've seen in more than a couple showcase circumstances that a kid will throw 2-3 pitches, scout checks the gun, not impressed, then puts his notes down and pays little further attention.

Velocity will get you looks quicker than accuracy, but we have learned there are college coaches out there that will pay attention to a pitcher with decent speed that gets batters out. But to be sure, lighting up the gun gets attention quicker by far. As one of the coaches/scouts on here posted, tossing it 90 up against the backstop won't cut it, but a kid throwing 90 will get looks.

How many pitcher inquiry conversations start with "How accurate is he?" I suspect 0%, as opposed to "What's he throwing?", which seems to be the normal first question.

Just saw in yesterdays paper that the St Louis Cardinals resigned Rich Ankeil for $400,00.00. Talk about somebody that can throw hard but has no idea where its going. Of course being a lefty that throws hard doesn't hurt. I don't know how many chances they are going to give him , but that to me shows how much the pros favor speed over accuracy.

In Ankeil's case I think it is more of a lefty thing.

I would like to think that both velocity and Control are Equal, but that would be only in a perfect world.
Velocity is King, always has been always will be.
Here is a good example:
Colt Griffin. Was drafted in the first round back in 2001, I think he got about 5 million,
Everything I read about him says he was throwing as fast as 102mph. (look it up in Google)
But couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn.
I don’t know if he has every made it out of 2AA ball. What I’ve read is his Velocity has dropped, due to him trying to control the pitch.

Now on the other hand, you have Scott Kazmir.
He was drafted # 15th in the first round 2 years ago, and has made it to the Show.
Scott has a High 90’s fast ball and is a lefty with great control.
So having both is the Key, but without one or the other you may make it to the pros, but you’ll have a hard time making it to the show.
Randall

The original question is what scout prefer. The problem is to project a good " hit the spot pitcher" in HS or College. This kind of pitchers
don't have nothing else that can get better in the next 4 years. If a kid throw 90's in HS, will do the same at pro level, and still have time to get better on his control, and learn new pitches.

As a former pro player, I can tell you this, the first and foremost factor is velocity! No velocity, no draft!! I played college ball at the Univ. of CT and we had a pitcher named Jack Taylor that led the nation in ERA 0.00 and enough innings to qualify!!! Jack threw in the low 80s but could throw his unbelieveable curveball for a strike on any count! You guessed it Jack was not drafted!

After velocity the next determining factor is size. They want big kids with big legs, because they are more durable, and last longer

The next attribute is what kind of kid is he? They want teachable kids.

The bottomline is a kid that is 6'5" and throws 90+ is getting drafted high, and the kid that doesn't throw hard, but gets by on savvy and working both sides of the plate, and has no size, is most likely not signing anything more than a free agent contract!

I like your post they are solid and honest. I agree with you 100%. When it comes to pitching you will not get noticed without velocity. If you throw hard you will get noticed. Now if you can gas it and have great command then you are in great shape. But I too have seen kids that were great HS and College pitchers that could paint and throw several pitches for strikes anytime in the count. But they lacked the type of velocity that pro scouts are looking for. But I have seen kids in HS that could throw gas and struggled with their command. They got a shot because they can bring it. They hope that they can work with these kids and teach them command of pitches. But you can not teach a kid to throw 95. If you could everyone would. Just like everyone would hit at a high level if it could be taught.

Posted by Savannah

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Throwing 90+ is god given. However, I also believe that most good athletes have been given this ability. Most just didn't utilize and train themselves over the long years to develop into a 90+ throwing pitcher. They played football, basketball or whatever. (So, yeh, given the premise that you are a naturally good athlete, I believe you can teach that kid to throw 90+; been-there, done-that).

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Savannah,

Perhaps you are right, but I would like to disagree slightly.

I would say there are some "athletes" who are capable of throwing 90+ by working hard at it.

However, there are many "great athletes" with weak arms. They would be included in the group that will never throw 90+.

For example Johnny Damon is not capable of throwing 90+ from the outfield, no matter what he worked on.

While throwing a baseball can be considered an athletic skill, it does not mean every great athlete will be good at it. Sometimes, it's the tool that's missing in a great athlete.

I believe very much in the training aspect of throwing a baseball. I think training and mechanics can improve anyone. But, there are those that don't train hard and don't have ideal mechanics, who throw 90+. Kind of makes you wonder how good they would be if they worked at it!

Throwing a baseball is an all together different athletic skill than all the others. There have been many not so good athletes who have thrown 90+.

My son is a good athlete, not a great one. He seems to be able to hit a ball better than those with similar ability and he can throw harder than many with much more athletic ability.

The pitcher who won the LLWS US championship game is a big kid but was never a great athlete. He could always throw hard but he didn't make the A all-star team until he was 11 or 12. He can hit the ball a mile but not that often. These days I'd rate him as a decent to good athlete but not a great one. On the other hand I'd rate him as having a great arm for his age.

I agree with PG on this one. If a kid has good mechanics you may be able to add 5 mph to his fastball that he wouldn't have gotten otherwise, which is a big difference, but that is about it. You aren't going to turn a kid with good mechanics and an 80 mph fastball into a 90 mph pitcher.

You know I have had kids that threw 83-86 as seniors that never worked at baseball. They came out in Feb and I didnt see them again untill the next Feb. They were guys I like to call three month players. They liked baseball but they didnt love it enough to work at it. There is no doubt in my mind that if they had just worked during the four years in High School they could have added 5 6 7 8 who knows how many mph. That means a kid that left throwing 83 could have been 88 89 90 ? Who knows. Every kid that we have had that came in with a good arm as a freshman these guys are the ones in the upper 70's low 80's that has worked has left in the upper 80's and some in the low 90's. These kids have all had the opportunity to play at the next level and a couple have been drafted. But they had the work ethic. Everyone is not going to throw 90 and everyone is not going to be a hitter. But you can improve yourself and there are certainly guys out there that have the ability they just have to tap into it.

Would seem that velocity gets you drafted but velocity + control gets you to the majors.