Do umps make "make up calls?"

quote:

Originally posted by Rob Kremer:
Do they?
Should they?

Why or why not?

Does it happen as much as dads in the stands think?

I say, no and no.

Because I would lose track of who's turn it was to make up something for. And it would make a travesty of the game and I'd have to toss myself.

A good umpire will self assess every call, with no outside influence.

No, remember, the defense see's "out" and the offense see's "safe". Dad's minds are biased. Blues are not. They call what they see and see what they call..remember "make up" is a term used by those that "disagree" with a call, not those that necessarily know the call.
Because one disagrees with a call, doesn't, by the wildest stretch of the imagination, make it the wrong call.
Make ups are reserved for Superbowl's.
HAWK FAN (SORRY ZEBRA'S, I ONLY MADE THAT UP)

I agree with jkk. Umpires have and always will miss calls, that is the human side of officiating. Sometimes it is because of poor timing or poor positioning. Sometimes it is simply a miss. Most times it is as jkk said, simply a call one team or thae other disagrees with. The umpire needs to now if he missed something or if it just the coach not seeing what really happened. If he misses something then he needs to learn from it and apply it to future calls but certainly never try making up a call. It is an ugly path to take.

IMO,saying that their isin't one crooked ump out there somewhere in the world is ludicris. 95% of the umps you run into are good,even great, you just don't remember them. There is that 5% out there that are as crooked as a question mark, and their always going to be there.

As for make-up calls, all they do is make both teams POed.

As you know there are bad apples in every bunch. Some youth umps are just bad umps (meaning untrained/inexperienced) and may mistakenly try to even out a call. There are others that simply are homer umps and will definitely do things that umps shouldn't do to help their team. Hopefully the local assoc finds these guys and runs them out of the game quickly.

quote:

Do they?
Should they?
Does it happen as much as dads in the stands think?

Why or why not?

Here are my short answers followed by my reasonings....

Do they.....I have seen it done.

Should they...No, Never.

As often as dad's think?....probably not


They- This is one of the things about Umpiring that I try to tell all the new umpires I train and its one of my pet peeves...

Very few people say "that" umpire, its usually "those" umpires....so in using the word "they" its most often means all or most umpires.....its why umpires need to continiously work to get better since its the lowest common denominator that often times defines us all as a group.....

Do "they"....

In my experience I have seen this happen....I have seen an umpire make a make up call after he has blown a call...I have also seen some umpires bullied and badgered into calling a game one way or another by coaches, over the top fans and underhanded or overbearing tourney officials.

Make up calls are the sign of a few things....usually inexperience and lack of training on the umpires part. It can also be a sign of a lack of ethics on the part of the umpire... This, in my estimation, is of the most concern...you can't train out a lack of ethics....you can only weed out umpires of this nature...bad thing is that with the lack of umpires,. they can and do resurface elsewhere, where standards are looser....

Should they....

Never....Two wrongs never make one right.....the moment you deliberatly make a "wrong" call to even up your inital mistake, you have wrongly interjected yourself into the outcome of the game....

A genuine mistake, or missed call is part of the game, part of the human factor....but to deliberatly make a wrong call is cheating....now you have effectively wronged 2 teams and rightly so, given them reason to doubt your judgment and ethics.....

Does it happen as much as dads in the stands think?..

No, I dont think so, certainly not in my games...or those of my chapters....but, I'll leave it at this....I hope not....

KC

please define "crooked"

I think you are way off base and I am not an umpire fan

How about marginal calls?

That is, if an ump knows he missed a call, would it perhaps influence his decision on the next call that could go either way?

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
KC

please define "crooked"

I think you are way off base and I am not an umpire fan

When I say "crooked" either there are undertrained, underexpreinced, or the extremly few out there that just don't want Team A to beat Team B. I guess crooked wasn't the best word to use.

KC

You got that right---crooked has various connotations

If a coach questions my call and accuses me of a make-up call, I have been known to toss a coach or a parent.
Why?
You are questioning my integrity.
The answer to your question.
NO! NO! NEVER!

How about marginal calls?

That is, if an ump knows he missed a call, would it perhaps influence his decision on the next call that could go either way?


Its the same answer Rob......

Anytime an umpire gets caught up in trying to even up a mistake, they have gone back to the "two wrongs never make one right....."

The moment you deliberatly make a "wrong" call to even up your inital mistake, you have wrongly interjected yourself into the outcome of the game....

The one thing an umpire needs to learn is to detach himself from the outcome of the game.....

Worrying about whether or not to even up a mistake is being concerned about calls going one way or another.....The calls go the way they do.....You will find that even coaches and fans will get caught up in this....such as comments like....."when will the calls start going our way?"........

The calls go the way they go.....safe/out...fair foul......An Umpire should not have a concern about which way the calls go.......or how the next call should go......

Who cares what dads in the stands think?

I'm not an umpire, but I dont think umpires should make make up calls, although I think it is done more than you think. If an ump things he missed a call and there's a close play I think he will give it to the other team. It usually happens when the close play is in the same or next inning so it's still fresh in the umps mind. I even had one ump tell me he made a make up call. He wasn't a bad ump at all. He's done a lot of my games and I've gotten to know him pretty well. He called a low strike on me for strike 3, lower than his other calls. Then in the bottom half of the inning a pitcher on my team threw the same pitch to one of their batters and he called it a strike. It was the only 2 pitchers that low that were called strikes. After the inning he came up to me and told me the 3rd strike on me was a bad call and that he called the same pitch a strike on the other teams kid because it was a make up call.

quote:

A genuine mistake, or missed call is part of the game, part of the human factor....but to deliberatly make a wrong call is cheating....now you have effectively wronged 2 teams and rightly so, given them reason to doubt your judgment and ethics.....

nd943,
Here is my quote from an above response...... Your umpire cheated....He made a mistake on you and then cheated the other batter and team for what reason?........did it make you any less out on strikes?....Im sure it didnt make you feel better that he cheated the other batter...

I have missed a pitch, and I have told players that I missed it, but I'll never call a pitch deliberately wrong to make up for it..

My only question to you is, if he calls a pitch on you in the future a strike, what confidence do you have that it was a good call, bad call or make up call...????

Once you've gone down that unethical path of making decisions not based on what you truely saw, then all your decisions are open to doubt.....

NO Good umpire gives "make up" calls...

If an umpire misses a call you can doubt his judgement on that play.

If an umpire uses a make up call you can doubt his credibility and integrity forever.

quote:

Originally posted by LonBlue67:
Who cares what dads in the stands think?

only the Dads, lol

Make up call? think about it. In order to make up a call you have to think to yourself. hey i blew a call so I am going to make it up to the team I blew the call on. The problem is when is this makeup going to take place? this inning next inning on a bang bang play at first on a fair or foul ball is it a catch or not a catch
Think about it from the umpires perspective.