Do you,in a best of three tournament,save your ace for game #2 or do you use him in game one ?
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I would think it depends on how you see the competition you are facing. also on how many days the games are over.
i am a strong believer in you have to win the game in front of you to get to the next one. You generally throw your ace against the team you see as the best opponet.
i am a strong believer in you have to win the game in front of you to get to the next one. You generally throw your ace against the team you see as the best opponet.
quote:i am a strong believer in you have to win the game in front of you to get to the next one.
Early in my coaching experience I "outthunk" my self saving my # 1 wound up losing 2 never did that again.
It depends on the quality of my competition and how good my other pitchers are. If I do not know anything about the competition I throw my ace and worry about the next one when I get there.
There are a lot of variables, but in general
I will use my ace to get to the championship game.
Then throw the kitchen sink at em.
I think we have all seen too many coaches save the ace for the bus ride home.
I will use my ace to get to the championship game.
Then throw the kitchen sink at em.
I think we have all seen too many coaches save the ace for the bus ride home.
TG
Who tells the boy he is a B pitcher and not an A pitcher?
You start a "stud" in an early game and then if you pull him you use him again later in the day in relief? That seems like an arm problem waiting to happen
Who tells the boy he is a B pitcher and not an A pitcher?
You start a "stud" in an early game and then if you pull him you use him again later in the day in relief? That seems like an arm problem waiting to happen
I would go ahead and throw my ace and then play what you can in the championship. When my son was playing 13&U AAU he played on a team who's coach was always saving that ace for the championship game. I can honestly say he was the best rested player on the team because we kept getting bumped into the losers bracket in the second round. Probably didn't win more than one tournament and play in two championship games that season.
TG
You believe what you want about a kid pitching twice in one day---but YOU ARE WRONG IN DOING IT
You believe what you want about a kid pitching twice in one day---but YOU ARE WRONG IN DOING IT
Win the game in front of you. Worry about tomorrow when it gets here.
TRhit- you are spot on with the pitching in multiple games in a day. I could not believe it when I first saw it. It is a very common practice at the 11, 12, 13, and 14 year old level. It is bad enough pitching in one game and then playing a position. But pitching with a couple hours in between is the worst. I have seen kids pitch in multiple games in a day and catch in between. Was at a tournament and watched a kid pitch 3 innings in all 5 games over two days. His father was the coach. I don't usually tell the coach when to pitch my kid but I do get involved when they try to pitch him twice in the same day.
TRhit- you are spot on with the pitching in multiple games in a day. I could not believe it when I first saw it. It is a very common practice at the 11, 12, 13, and 14 year old level. It is bad enough pitching in one game and then playing a position. But pitching with a couple hours in between is the worst. I have seen kids pitch in multiple games in a day and catch in between. Was at a tournament and watched a kid pitch 3 innings in all 5 games over two days. His father was the coach. I don't usually tell the coach when to pitch my kid but I do get involved when they try to pitch him twice in the same day.
thats the main reason kids today are having so many arm surgerys. all for a 6 dollar trophy.
The good coaches develop and carry enough pitchers so as to not get into this
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
The good coaches develop and carry enough pitchers so as to not get into this
TR, at the 9-13 ages teams typically carry 11-13 players. This is because of parents demands for playing time. If the team is blessed with arms they might have 8 kids that can be somewhat effective on the mound. If you do well in the tournament you can play 7 games or more in 4 days. Most tournaments have pitching limits(3 innings per game, 6 innings per day, or something similar). Most games a coach is forced to use 2-5 pitchers. So when you do the math you see the problem. That's why I don't like tournement formats. It is killing these young arms!
I have coached at all of these age levels, and have been guilty of throwing kids same day and next day.(but I do watch pitch counts closely). It is not right, but you do the best with what you have.
I was asked to coach couple teams for summer 07, I told them I was going to roster 16 min. Parents said too many, I said no thank you.
I'm a little cranky about the subject, parents, tournaments, arms, roster sizes...All these tend to be in conflict with the health of the young kids arms.
quote:Most tournaments have pitching limits(3 innings per game, 6 innings per day, or something similar).
Our tournaments had similar limits up to about 15 years old. Our coaches would often throw there best pitcher in a 4 day tournament the 1st game depending on the team. A weak team would not face the best pitcher in the 1st game. If the best pitcher was way ahead they would pull him to pitch in the cahampionship game. That backfired accassionaly but generally worked.
A parents job is to teach his player when he can say no to a coach. Our copaches always asked how he felt and he would tell them the truth. I can't remember ever having a problem with a coach who didn't honor his not being able to throw anymore. I do remember 1 time at an older age he said he could only throw off speeds as he had been on the mound 4 of the last 5 days in camps. It was a very exciting game and he rarely used his FB. He pitched the 7 innings and the coach had to make him come off the mound in a tied game. He pitched within his limits. The coach talked to me latter and said in the 6 years he had coached him he had never heard him refuse to come out. He was shocked, laughed but took him out. His arm was tired ,felt fine but he was fiercely engrossed in the game.
Tournaments are a blessing for our team. 13 players and 12 pitchers. We would have kids quitting if we only played 2 games a weekend. Kids rarely get more than 3 innings per tournament. Nobody pitches more than once per weekend. If you pitch that game you DH the rest of the game. If you are scheduled to pitch you don't play in the field that game. We always have 3 kids in the pitching rotation per game.
It is a great situation for everybody. We are lucky to have the talent to get by with this system. Not everybody is equal in talent, but thats why the defense is out there.
It is a great situation for everybody. We are lucky to have the talent to get by with this system. Not everybody is equal in talent, but thats why the defense is out there.
Donut, what age ?
quote:We always have 3 kids in the pitching rotation per game.
quote:Nobody pitches more than once per weekend
Then your team must be 3 pool games and done. Cuz if you make it to the championship round, you are usually going to play 7+ depending on format.
My math can be a little fussy at times but I will give it a try: (3 kids in rotation per game) x (nobody pitches more than once per weekend) x (7 games) = 21 pitchers
The best team I ever had (67-5) 12u playing nationally, 13 players 11 pitchers. 5 of those pitchers were "throw off" guys. In tournaments we still had to throw kids more than once. We did monitor pitch counts, but also velocity. There were times when a kid hadn't reached his pitch count, but his velo was down. We would pull him early knowing he was fatigued(there can be alot of other reasons for fatigue other than pitch counts)
Don't get me wrong. Tournaments are fun, the kids love em. But the fact is, because of tournament formats 90% of the coaches are using arms improperly. No one can convince me otherwise, I have been to hundreds of these things and see it over and over and over.
Our team is 13U. We usually have 5 game tournaments.
Sometimes the kids pitch 4 innings but not very often. Possible of 35 innings sometimes 42 with 6 games. Only max of 49 innings in 7 games.
49/12=4 innings or so. If you sat out the game and didn't pitch you started the next game. We rarely play in 7 game tournaments. 2 pool games, sometimes three. We try to jump out early, shorten the game, maybe get a bye. Sometimes we get knocked out.
Nobody pitches twice.
Sometimes the kids pitch 4 innings but not very often. Possible of 35 innings sometimes 42 with 6 games. Only max of 49 innings in 7 games.
49/12=4 innings or so. If you sat out the game and didn't pitch you started the next game. We rarely play in 7 game tournaments. 2 pool games, sometimes three. We try to jump out early, shorten the game, maybe get a bye. Sometimes we get knocked out.
Nobody pitches twice.
