Not sure where to put this(general or recruiting), but it reinforces the message I have heard from so many others
GO where you are wanted and make the MOST of it...
http://www2.timesdispatch.com/...-playing-ar-1171562/
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quote:Originally posted by 4pApA:
Not sure where to put this(general or recruiting), but it reinforces the message I have heard from so many others
GO where you are wanted and make the MOST of it...
http://www2.timesdispatch.com/...-playing-ar-1171562/
Great comment.
It is better to win at D3 than lose at D1 imho. It is better to play for a conference title, a regional, or a national championship at a lower level than sit the bench in Omaha.
Of course, each player and family has to make their own decision. None of us know the future with certainty and that always involves risk. Going where the coach adores a kid and recruits them heavily is a good sign for the future however.
The author failed to mention that Chisenhall was a formr D1 player, released from South Carolina.
I am a firm beleiver that a player should go to where he will play, not sit, and be wanted, but I do agree with CD that this is a personal decision for player and family. What worked for one may not be the best for everyone.
Changes in D1 scholarships, 35 max on roster, rising tuition costs have made other divisions and JUCO great options for families that find themselves not prepared for college expenses. Keep in mind that one doesn't need an atheletic scholarship to attend D1 and you will find many on academic scholarships.
Thinking that what you will invest in your player (lessons, lessons and more lessons, expensive travel teams, equipment, etc.) when younger might bring a large college scholarship isn't always the case for most players. Chances are that how one develops in the classroom will play just as an important role (maybe even more) as bb skills when searching and finding the right "fit".
I am a firm beleiver that a player should go to where he will play, not sit, and be wanted, but I do agree with CD that this is a personal decision for player and family. What worked for one may not be the best for everyone.
Changes in D1 scholarships, 35 max on roster, rising tuition costs have made other divisions and JUCO great options for families that find themselves not prepared for college expenses. Keep in mind that one doesn't need an atheletic scholarship to attend D1 and you will find many on academic scholarships.
Thinking that what you will invest in your player (lessons, lessons and more lessons, expensive travel teams, equipment, etc.) when younger might bring a large college scholarship isn't always the case for most players. Chances are that how one develops in the classroom will play just as an important role (maybe even more) as bb skills when searching and finding the right "fit".
Actually saying "released" is very kind. There's no question that he would have been a star at South Carolina. Probably a bad example to make a point regarding this topic.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
Actually saying "released" is very kind. There's no question that he would have been a star at South Carolina. Probably a bad example to make a point regarding this topic.
PG,
Finding out that there are many players in professional ball that have made mistakes they will always regret, but this doesn't diminish their talent.
I agree, he would have been a star, going to Pitt had nothing to do with his success.
quote:Originally posted by TPM:quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
Actually saying "released" is very kind. There's no question that he would have been a star at South Carolina. Probably a bad example to make a point regarding this topic.
PG,
Finding out that there are many players in professional ball that have made mistakes they will always regret, but this doesn't diminish their talent.
I agree, he would have been a star, going to Pitt had nothing to do with his success.
There are bunches of them. A current Red Sox starter was "released" from his mid-major D1, landing at a juco after swiping 29 laptops from his old high school during Xmas break.
The Chisenal story was very sad and a real head scratcher when it happened. Coach Tanner was obviously very disappointed, to say the least.
Go where you're wanted, I was always told.
The problem with the "Go where you're wanted" and the "Go where you can play" strategies is that everyone used them, no teams would have benches or bullpens.
Someone has to take those minimum offers, too. If you have the determination to wage an uphill battle, there's something to be said for the "Go where you can prove they underestimated you" strategy. Even if you don't prevail, you can become a better, stronger, and more confident for making the effort.
Someone has to take those minimum offers, too. If you have the determination to wage an uphill battle, there's something to be said for the "Go where you can prove they underestimated you" strategy. Even if you don't prevail, you can become a better, stronger, and more confident for making the effort.
Or you can be a square peg, one of the several that try out in the fall as "preferred walk-ons". Sounds like fun. Maybe you'll get to chase foul balls.
quote:Originally posted by Swampboy:
The problem with the "Go where you're wanted" and the "Go where you can play" strategies is that everyone used them, no teams would have benches or bullpens.
Someone has to take those minimum offers, too. If you have the determination to wage an uphill battle, there's something to be said for the "Go where you can prove they underestimated you" strategy. Even if you don't prevail, you can become a better, stronger, and more confident for making the effort.
Going where you are wanted may not necessarily mean taking more $$$. There are some good programs that just don't have the funds to give out, but that doesn't mean the coach doesn't want them.
Dad04,
You totally missed my point.
The greatest value of sports lies in the physical and character development they make possible.
A player who chooses to go where he's sure he'll play is simply not extending himself and not aspiring to find his highest potential. You do not help a teenager become a man by encouraging him to go only where he's sure he'll succeed.
A player who seeks out the most challenging environment he can be a part of is looking for something better and has a better chance of finding it.
So, go ahead and be sarcastic, but it won't change the fact that your advice is superficial and short-sighted. Every team has many more seats on the bench than spots in the line up, and coaches are real good at telling prospects what they want to hear. Players who think they're following your advice run the risk of either a) finishing their college careers without knowing how good they could have been because they chose to play at a level below their potential, or b) being ill prepared for reality when that sure-thing playing time evaporates in the face of competition against older, stronger men.
You totally missed my point.
The greatest value of sports lies in the physical and character development they make possible.
A player who chooses to go where he's sure he'll play is simply not extending himself and not aspiring to find his highest potential. You do not help a teenager become a man by encouraging him to go only where he's sure he'll succeed.
A player who seeks out the most challenging environment he can be a part of is looking for something better and has a better chance of finding it.
So, go ahead and be sarcastic, but it won't change the fact that your advice is superficial and short-sighted. Every team has many more seats on the bench than spots in the line up, and coaches are real good at telling prospects what they want to hear. Players who think they're following your advice run the risk of either a) finishing their college careers without knowing how good they could have been because they chose to play at a level below their potential, or b) being ill prepared for reality when that sure-thing playing time evaporates in the face of competition against older, stronger men.
I can say first hand being part of a team/ coaching staff where you are wanted is about 80% of the battle. Yes the campus matters, yes the classes matter, but in terms of your overall experience the baseball portion is a huge part.
The coach who recruited me left the program and though I didn't realize it at the time, I was in a position where I really wasn't wanted. There is only so much you can control with the coaching staff coming and going, but in general being part of an organization that wants YOU is very important.
The problem with recruiting is what they say to get you there ( when they do want you )might not be how they feel a year later. Perhaps they thought you were a different player or had different expectations. Whatever it is, trying to figure out from the START what places really want and need you is the challenge.
I had to learn the hard way the challenges that come with being in "5th wheel". It ended up working out for me, as we want to a Regional my senior year, but it was huge lesson in life that I didn't realize I was signing up for.
Ken Jacobi
Author of "Going with the Pitch: Adjusting to Baseball, School, and Life as a Division I College Athlete"
The coach who recruited me left the program and though I didn't realize it at the time, I was in a position where I really wasn't wanted. There is only so much you can control with the coaching staff coming and going, but in general being part of an organization that wants YOU is very important.
The problem with recruiting is what they say to get you there ( when they do want you )might not be how they feel a year later. Perhaps they thought you were a different player or had different expectations. Whatever it is, trying to figure out from the START what places really want and need you is the challenge.
I had to learn the hard way the challenges that come with being in "5th wheel". It ended up working out for me, as we want to a Regional my senior year, but it was huge lesson in life that I didn't realize I was signing up for.
Ken Jacobi
Author of "Going with the Pitch: Adjusting to Baseball, School, and Life as a Division I College Athlete"
Ken,
You do understand that you validated what I said, don't you?
Let me put it another way. A player who decides he will sign at the school where he is most wanted is outsourcing his life decision, leaving it to chance that the coach who seems most enthusiastic about recruiting him knows what is best for him.
Nobody has ever been inspired by the story of the ball player who went where he was most wanted, settled easily into a starting position that was waiting for him, and had a nice college career.
Thousands have been inspired by the stories of players who went where they were not particularly wanted but worked so hard they couldn't be denied the opportunity. The second baseman for UVA comes to mind. Had he gone where he was wanted, he'd have missed out on two trips to Omaha.
Please note that I'm not saying you should necessarily go where you're not wanted. I'm saying you should decide your own priorities and dreams for yourself and make your decision based on what you want, not on how much a coach seems to want you.
You do understand that you validated what I said, don't you?
Let me put it another way. A player who decides he will sign at the school where he is most wanted is outsourcing his life decision, leaving it to chance that the coach who seems most enthusiastic about recruiting him knows what is best for him.
Nobody has ever been inspired by the story of the ball player who went where he was most wanted, settled easily into a starting position that was waiting for him, and had a nice college career.
Thousands have been inspired by the stories of players who went where they were not particularly wanted but worked so hard they couldn't be denied the opportunity. The second baseman for UVA comes to mind. Had he gone where he was wanted, he'd have missed out on two trips to Omaha.
Please note that I'm not saying you should necessarily go where you're not wanted. I'm saying you should decide your own priorities and dreams for yourself and make your decision based on what you want, not on how much a coach seems to want you.
Swampboy- I agree with the general message you are giving. But I'd like to play Devil's Advocate for a minute here.
It is human nature to be attracted to things that provide comfort to you. If a coach shows high levels of interest in a player, then wouldn't that player, by nature, be more attracted to that coach and the program at that particular school? If baseball is a factor in the decision making process for college, which it is in many instances found on this site, then wouldn't a coach that seems to want you be something that would help appeal to you and help to provide what you want?
It is human nature to be attracted to things that provide comfort to you. If a coach shows high levels of interest in a player, then wouldn't that player, by nature, be more attracted to that coach and the program at that particular school? If baseball is a factor in the decision making process for college, which it is in many instances found on this site, then wouldn't a coach that seems to want you be something that would help appeal to you and help to provide what you want?
Josh,
Certainly. It is human nature to want to go where you are wanted. However, as Katherine Hepburn told Humphrey Bogart in The African Queen, "Nature, Mr. Allnut, is what we are put in this world to rise above."
If you think about it from the coach's perspective, you'll see the paradox.
The coach who most fervently desires a player's services does so because he perceives a mismatch between the player's talent and the competition level within his conference.
Human nature leads a player to believe he belongs at the school whose coach is most enthusiastic. However, in reality, intensely enthusiastic recruiting efforts should be a sign that the player needs to aim higher if his goal is to fully achieve his baseball potential.
Certainly. It is human nature to want to go where you are wanted. However, as Katherine Hepburn told Humphrey Bogart in The African Queen, "Nature, Mr. Allnut, is what we are put in this world to rise above."
If you think about it from the coach's perspective, you'll see the paradox.
The coach who most fervently desires a player's services does so because he perceives a mismatch between the player's talent and the competition level within his conference.
Human nature leads a player to believe he belongs at the school whose coach is most enthusiastic. However, in reality, intensely enthusiastic recruiting efforts should be a sign that the player needs to aim higher if his goal is to fully achieve his baseball potential.
Each situation will be different, however based upon my son's 4-2-4 experience its a much better situation to go where you are wanted. This is an easy call if playing baseball is important to your son.
Going to a program where you are an afterthought generally translates into limited opportunities to develope and show your talents. I beleive its key that the coach really knows who your son is before he shows up on campus and has him in his plans. Some coaches become so committed to players they spent a great deal of time recruiting they can't see any other talent on their roster.
It happens, my son could tell you all about it.
Secondly, playing on a second division team in a good league can be a very good experience i.e. SEC and ACC, you might not win the league but you can still make it to a regional and you get to play against challenging top talent every week.
Going to a program where you are an afterthought generally translates into limited opportunities to develope and show your talents. I beleive its key that the coach really knows who your son is before he shows up on campus and has him in his plans. Some coaches become so committed to players they spent a great deal of time recruiting they can't see any other talent on their roster.
It happens, my son could tell you all about it.
Secondly, playing on a second division team in a good league can be a very good experience i.e. SEC and ACC, you might not win the league but you can still make it to a regional and you get to play against challenging top talent every week.
Going someplace where you will play or where you wanted is good and I want my son to do that.
But, more importantly I want him to go someplace that will help him with what he wants to do in life. To me his education is much more important than baseball (not that baseball isn't important) and what he does in college is more than just athletics.
The world is full of star athletes that spent four years in school only to find that they had absolutely nothing show for four years of education other than a piece of paper.
All things being equal, a school that can actually help my son academically will have an advantage over a school that doesn't. This advice isn't only from a dad, but from someone that has talked to several people that played in Major D1 programs and later pro ball. Both of these guys said that their major regrets was not concentrating more on their studies while in college and letting a real opportunity go by.
But, more importantly I want him to go someplace that will help him with what he wants to do in life. To me his education is much more important than baseball (not that baseball isn't important) and what he does in college is more than just athletics.
The world is full of star athletes that spent four years in school only to find that they had absolutely nothing show for four years of education other than a piece of paper.
All things being equal, a school that can actually help my son academically will have an advantage over a school that doesn't. This advice isn't only from a dad, but from someone that has talked to several people that played in Major D1 programs and later pro ball. Both of these guys said that their major regrets was not concentrating more on their studies while in college and letting a real opportunity go by.
quote:All things being equal, a school that can actually help my son academically will have an advantage over a school that doesn't. This advice isn't only from a dad, but from someone that has talked to several people that played in Major D1 programs and later pro ball. Both of these guys said that their major regrets was not concentrating more on their studies while in college and letting a real opportunity go by.
Any school can help a player academically, its up to the player to take advantage of it. Many non athletes I know have a piece of paper that didn't directly help them with the job they have now.
Some kids have a misrable college experience if they aren't given the chance to play even if they are at a really good UC in a beautiful location. Its a matter of how important playing is to the student.
Yes, but all things being equal majors are not the same at all schools. Most schools are known for one particular program or set of majors and that should be a consideration.
This is my point. Academics has to be part of the consideration process. If the kid is to get a job after college, and he doesn't end up with a pro contract, then you had better hope that the degree the boy gets is something that he can use. Likewise, a degree from a major in one school can hold more weight than the same degree from another school.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't consider the baseball program, of course you should but that should be part of the consideration process, not the entire thing.
This is my point. Academics has to be part of the consideration process. If the kid is to get a job after college, and he doesn't end up with a pro contract, then you had better hope that the degree the boy gets is something that he can use. Likewise, a degree from a major in one school can hold more weight than the same degree from another school.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't consider the baseball program, of course you should but that should be part of the consideration process, not the entire thing.
some people use baseball to get an education and others use college to play baseball
I suppose how you select a college depends on why your going to college.
I suppose how you select a college depends on why your going to college.
quote:Originally posted by Swampboy:
A player who chooses to go where he's sure he'll play is simply not extending himself and not aspiring to find his highest potential. You do not help a teenager become a man by encouraging him to go only where he's sure he'll succeed.
A player who seeks out the most challenging environment he can be a part of is looking for something better and has a better chance of finding it.
I am trying to understand the point you are trying to make. My son went to where he totally was wanted, he didn't get the prized weekend start until he was a junior, he could have gone someplace else and been the friday night star asap. Instead he choose to attend a tough conference and he struggled at times, but he did well. His weekend starts came in his 3rd year. There were reasons he chose that program over others, mostly because he felt this would be the best program to reach his goals, which involved a lot of things, not just the coach liking him and giving a good scholarship, he knew who he was going to play for and he understood what he had to do to get the start.
I don't think that I agree you should go where it will be easy, with no challenge, this has nothing to do with being wanted. There was another ACC school that was also recruiting son, but it was apparent who really valued his talent, his leadership, his good work ethic, more than the other. This is my interpretation of being wanted. This was his dream school, it would have been a HUGE mistake if he went there.
No matter where you go to play, even with a large scholarship you have to prove that you belong in that starting line up. This has nothing to do with being wanted, that is something that each individual has to figure out for himself, as to what will be the better opportunity for him to get in playing time as well as do well in the classroom. No one gets better sitting on the bench and no one graduates not attending classes.
quote:Originally posted by Wklink:
Yes, but all things being equal majors are not the same at all schools. Most schools are known for one particular program or set of majors and that should be a consideration.
This is my point. Academics has to be part of the consideration process. If the kid is to get a job after college, and he doesn't end up with a pro contract, then you had better hope that the degree the boy gets is something that he can use. Likewise, a degree from a major in one school can hold more weight than the same degree from another school.
My points being:
1. its what a student makes of his opportunity, it doesn't matter if he's at Sonoma State or UCLA. We don't go out of our way to hire UCLA or UCB grads at our CPA firm, we look for people we feel can help us.
2. There are many students with "useless" undergraduate degrees, its not limited to athletes A gal in our office has a math degree from UCD, she's a CPA now, not a single one of her math classes directly helped her become a CPA. Another has a degree in Theatre from UCSC. The firm founders have history degrees from Stanford. Less than 1/2 of the CPAs in my office actually have undergraduate degrees in accounting. Many times gertting any undergraduate degree is a "good" starting point.
3. For some kids, playing baseball is very important of the school environment that helps them make it through school. My son hated the highly rated west coast school he went to (it was on the beach) because he wan't playing baseball. I didn't enjoy asking him how things were going as life s**ked in his world. He transferred to a JC and then to a cold weather east coast mountain school and was 10 times happier with his college experience.
I have three kids and started out thinking they all had to go to a top rated University and I am now of the opinion it doesn't matter where they go as long they like the school enough to make it through graduation whether its a degree in pysch or engineering.
CollegeParent,
Good post. I think that we all can agree that not every place will be the best place for every player. There are lots of considerations, so to answer the question, yes I think that it does matter where you go, depending upon one's career goals.
Good post. I think that we all can agree that not every place will be the best place for every player. There are lots of considerations, so to answer the question, yes I think that it does matter where you go, depending upon one's career goals.
After this past year I know of at least 8 kids who left their "chosen" school after freshman year due to lack of playing time. The term D1 seems to be almost irresistible to many players and parents. Many will take a minimum scholly or recruited walk on offer, get 10 abs in non conference games and then realize they would rather play somewhere else than sit at DI University. The same people who would never consider going anywhere but D1 run to jucos/D2/D3 after sitting for a year. Like most other things in life it's very hard see this until you have gone through it so trying to tell many people this falls on deaf ears.
So I agree with those who say go where you're going to play. IMO playing for a D2/D3 or juco is better than sitting on the bench at a D1. Every level of college baseball has their own Omaha. It is no less rewarding to help your team win a championship in D3 than D1.
So I agree with those who say go where you're going to play. IMO playing for a D2/D3 or juco is better than sitting on the bench at a D1. Every level of college baseball has their own Omaha. It is no less rewarding to help your team win a championship in D3 than D1.
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NJbb said....
That is how I look at it njbb. There are thousands of perspectives on this, and they are all right IMHO. Some folks have limited options becasue the offers aren't there, and others have many options to choose from. Both gravitate to where they think they'll be happiest overall. For some that is baseball, for some that is academics, and for others it is both as well as other dynmics such as distance from home.
Swampboy said...
We followed the academics, financial affordability, and "coach seems to want me" model in our recruiting efforts. But I admit the "coach seems to want me" wasn't nearly as important as the academics and affordability when we were meeting or visiting schools. My interpretation of Swampboy's statement is just that. However, given two similiar offers from two simialiar schools, I think most people will give the "seems like coaches want me" a lot more weight. It did for us.
quote:some people use baseball to get an education and others use college to play baseball
I suppose how you select a college depends on why your going to college.
That is how I look at it njbb. There are thousands of perspectives on this, and they are all right IMHO. Some folks have limited options becasue the offers aren't there, and others have many options to choose from. Both gravitate to where they think they'll be happiest overall. For some that is baseball, for some that is academics, and for others it is both as well as other dynmics such as distance from home.
Swampboy said...
quote:Please note that I'm not saying you should necessarily go where you're not wanted. I'm saying you should decide your own priorities and dreams for yourself and make your decision based on what you want, not on how much a coach seems to want you.
We followed the academics, financial affordability, and "coach seems to want me" model in our recruiting efforts. But I admit the "coach seems to want me" wasn't nearly as important as the academics and affordability when we were meeting or visiting schools. My interpretation of Swampboy's statement is just that. However, given two similiar offers from two simialiar schools, I think most people will give the "seems like coaches want me" a lot more weight. It did for us.
TPM,
I wasn't really talking about elite players at your son's level, but your son's choice to go where he had to work two years to become a weekend starter instead of going to any of the schools where he could have been the big man on campus from day one is exactly the choice I'm advocating.
My point is that for players who really don't know where the right fit is but who want to reach their baseball ceiling, it is naive to make "Where do they most want you?" a primary decision factor because: a) Coaches are good salesmen, so you can't really tell how much the coach wants you unless he makes an eye-popping offer, b) If the coach really, really wants you, there's a good chance it's because you're overqualified for the competitiveness of his conference, c) Coaches change jobs, d) Coaches change their minds, and e) The coach's desire is based on what's best for him, not what's best for you.
Make your own choice based on your goals and what's important to you. If your heart's desire is to give baseball everything you've got, if you are determined either to make it or to find out for sure that you can't make it, then going where you are most wanted may not help you reach your goals.
The offer my son accepted turned out to be the smallest one he received. There were a half dozen schools that wanted him more than the one he's attending, but he chose the school where he thought he could work the hardest and improve the most. Two weeks into summer school, he's happy with his choice: the workouts are ridiculously tough, his teammates are committed, the classes are hard, he knows he'll have to claw for the chance to find the mound in a real game, and he knows there's no guarantee he'll be invited back as a sophomore. All these things are what he wanted, and they matter more to him than how much his recruiter (who BTW has moved on) wanted him.
I wasn't really talking about elite players at your son's level, but your son's choice to go where he had to work two years to become a weekend starter instead of going to any of the schools where he could have been the big man on campus from day one is exactly the choice I'm advocating.
My point is that for players who really don't know where the right fit is but who want to reach their baseball ceiling, it is naive to make "Where do they most want you?" a primary decision factor because: a) Coaches are good salesmen, so you can't really tell how much the coach wants you unless he makes an eye-popping offer, b) If the coach really, really wants you, there's a good chance it's because you're overqualified for the competitiveness of his conference, c) Coaches change jobs, d) Coaches change their minds, and e) The coach's desire is based on what's best for him, not what's best for you.
Make your own choice based on your goals and what's important to you. If your heart's desire is to give baseball everything you've got, if you are determined either to make it or to find out for sure that you can't make it, then going where you are most wanted may not help you reach your goals.
The offer my son accepted turned out to be the smallest one he received. There were a half dozen schools that wanted him more than the one he's attending, but he chose the school where he thought he could work the hardest and improve the most. Two weeks into summer school, he's happy with his choice: the workouts are ridiculously tough, his teammates are committed, the classes are hard, he knows he'll have to claw for the chance to find the mound in a real game, and he knows there's no guarantee he'll be invited back as a sophomore. All these things are what he wanted, and they matter more to him than how much his recruiter (who BTW has moved on) wanted him.
I don't think anyone here has ever suggested that the better offer means you are wanted more or necessarily be happiest at. Some places just can't offer that much, that doesn't mean they don't want you (that is what I said earlier).
I don't think that I disagree with what you are saying, but rather how it came across. I definetly don't beleive that a player should go play somewhere where it will be easy or even where he will never get a start, this is the decision we talk about that is personal to each and every player. Interesting the amount of players that do end up transfering, sometimes it's due to blinders, sometimes they just realize they belonged somewhere else, and often because the really nice coach was a tough cookie. Coaches are good salesman, this happens often because players are needed for ALL reasons, and, one has to figure out exactly what they are needed for.
You made your point well about this doesn't pertain to "elite" players, however, think about this, if elite players have trouble adjusting to that program, think about the player that is not considered as elite. I want people to know that the program son played in was really, really tough, he struggled often, that's is why I have always said that top D1 program is NOT for everyone. That does NOT mean that you can't go anywhere else and not be successful, or even find yourself at the next level.
I don't think that I disagree with what you are saying, but rather how it came across. I definetly don't beleive that a player should go play somewhere where it will be easy or even where he will never get a start, this is the decision we talk about that is personal to each and every player. Interesting the amount of players that do end up transfering, sometimes it's due to blinders, sometimes they just realize they belonged somewhere else, and often because the really nice coach was a tough cookie. Coaches are good salesman, this happens often because players are needed for ALL reasons, and, one has to figure out exactly what they are needed for.
You made your point well about this doesn't pertain to "elite" players, however, think about this, if elite players have trouble adjusting to that program, think about the player that is not considered as elite. I want people to know that the program son played in was really, really tough, he struggled often, that's is why I have always said that top D1 program is NOT for everyone. That does NOT mean that you can't go anywhere else and not be successful, or even find yourself at the next level.
The issue really is it is only easy to tell after you have graduated or transferred what situation or school made the most sense to attend.
You clearly need a school with the academics that match your needs, but once you do that ( and there are 1,000's of schools out there so that is the easy part ) then I really believe the entire baseball aspect is a huge, huge factor in your decision.
I hear a lot of people say that " As long as Johnny gets an education, that is the most important part." And yes of course it is, but that totally ignores the fact that you can get this great education all across the country. There will be great teammates at almost every school you go to and to some extent the social part of college is what you make of it.
As a student- athlete I really believe the "baseball experience" is the wild card that will make or break your situation. Granted I am talking in generalities here, but if you are a good student, you will do well in school. If you are a social kid, you will have fun at school. If you are a good baseball player, it is far, far, far from guaranteed that you will have a good baseball career.
So, if I did have the choice between going somewhere where the coach really wanted me vs. not, of course I would take the first. At least this gives me a leg up freshman year. If you were a player like me who needed time to learn and grow, then having someone in your corner is everything.
Ken Jacobi
Author of "Going with the Pitch: Adjusting to Baseball, School, and Life as a Division I College Athlete"
You clearly need a school with the academics that match your needs, but once you do that ( and there are 1,000's of schools out there so that is the easy part ) then I really believe the entire baseball aspect is a huge, huge factor in your decision.
I hear a lot of people say that " As long as Johnny gets an education, that is the most important part." And yes of course it is, but that totally ignores the fact that you can get this great education all across the country. There will be great teammates at almost every school you go to and to some extent the social part of college is what you make of it.
As a student- athlete I really believe the "baseball experience" is the wild card that will make or break your situation. Granted I am talking in generalities here, but if you are a good student, you will do well in school. If you are a social kid, you will have fun at school. If you are a good baseball player, it is far, far, far from guaranteed that you will have a good baseball career.
So, if I did have the choice between going somewhere where the coach really wanted me vs. not, of course I would take the first. At least this gives me a leg up freshman year. If you were a player like me who needed time to learn and grow, then having someone in your corner is everything.
Ken Jacobi
Author of "Going with the Pitch: Adjusting to Baseball, School, and Life as a Division I College Athlete"
An interesting thread... it absolutely validates one thing. There are zero "no doubter" right or wrong answers. No matter who you are, the position you play, or where you go you still have to figure it out for yourself. No matter how much "advice" or life lessons you learn from others on the this board, each player eventually has to make a decision. Usually that decision is based on "I'll know it when I FEEL it's right". Alot of variables make that feeling click in your head... or heart. And, even when all those things click into place.... things can change.
Baseball is life.
GED10DaD
Baseball is life.
GED10DaD
quote:Originally posted by GoingwiththePitch:
If you were a player like me who needed time to learn and grow, then having someone in your corner is everything.
BINGO
quote:Originally posted by fillsfan:
So I agree with those who say go where you're going to play. IMO playing for a D2/D3 or juco is better than sitting on the bench at a D1. Every level of college baseball has their own Omaha. It is no less rewarding to help your team win a championship in D3 than D1.
This rings true for us as this point in the recruiting parade. This conversation thread has been insightful to follow and glad I started it....LOL
I should probably quit trying because it's obvious people don't want to hear what I've been saying, but I'll give it one more shot.
For everybody who is not a nationally known blue chipper, you CAN'T know in advance how much college playing time you'll get, and you CAN'T know if the coach will still be happy to have recruited you once he's had you in practice for a semester.
Think about it for just a second.
Every coach desires to have competition for every spot on the roster, competition for every spot in the rotation, competition for every role in the bullpen, competition for every position, and competition for every platoon player, pinch runner, and defensive specialist.
Do you think you can escape this competition or it will be fore-ordained that you will prevail just because the coach seems like he really wants you? Would you even want to play on a team that lacked internal competition?
If you sign an NLI in November of your junior year and think you know you'll start as a freshman or a sophomore, you are either kidding yourself or you are signing up to play at a school way below your talent level.
The only way you could know you're going to play would be if you are already better than the college guy playing your position, you're already better than the backups on the roster will get with another year of conditioning and experience under their belts, and you're already better than the other recruits are going to get over the next year--and you know you won't encounter any bumps in your road toward your coronation as the next starting shortstop or Friday night starter.
You can't know these things.
Therefore, it is foolish to base your decision on them.
You might as well say you're going to pick the school where the most beautiful woman will fall in love with you. You have about the same chance of guessing right on that.
And, by the way, if you really are better than all those other players, you can bet the coach is trying to recruit someone else who can push you.
I suspect that many of those young men filsfan mentioned--the guys who leave D1 schools after one year because of lack of playing time--are bitter because they thought the coach wanted them and they thought they had picked a school they would play. I'd also guess they have another surprise ahead of them when they get to whatever D3 or JUCO is the next stop on their journey because there will be competition for playing time there, too.
You may end up starting as a freshmen because some freshmen do start. However, you can't know in advance that you will be one of those guys.
For everybody who is not a nationally known blue chipper, you CAN'T know in advance how much college playing time you'll get, and you CAN'T know if the coach will still be happy to have recruited you once he's had you in practice for a semester.
Think about it for just a second.
Every coach desires to have competition for every spot on the roster, competition for every spot in the rotation, competition for every role in the bullpen, competition for every position, and competition for every platoon player, pinch runner, and defensive specialist.
Do you think you can escape this competition or it will be fore-ordained that you will prevail just because the coach seems like he really wants you? Would you even want to play on a team that lacked internal competition?
If you sign an NLI in November of your junior year and think you know you'll start as a freshman or a sophomore, you are either kidding yourself or you are signing up to play at a school way below your talent level.
The only way you could know you're going to play would be if you are already better than the college guy playing your position, you're already better than the backups on the roster will get with another year of conditioning and experience under their belts, and you're already better than the other recruits are going to get over the next year--and you know you won't encounter any bumps in your road toward your coronation as the next starting shortstop or Friday night starter.
You can't know these things.
Therefore, it is foolish to base your decision on them.
You might as well say you're going to pick the school where the most beautiful woman will fall in love with you. You have about the same chance of guessing right on that.
And, by the way, if you really are better than all those other players, you can bet the coach is trying to recruit someone else who can push you.
I suspect that many of those young men filsfan mentioned--the guys who leave D1 schools after one year because of lack of playing time--are bitter because they thought the coach wanted them and they thought they had picked a school they would play. I'd also guess they have another surprise ahead of them when they get to whatever D3 or JUCO is the next stop on their journey because there will be competition for playing time there, too.
You may end up starting as a freshmen because some freshmen do start. However, you can't know in advance that you will be one of those guys.
quote:Originally posted by Swampboy:
Dad04,
You totally missed my point.
I doubt that. I comprehend English.
The greatest value of sports lies in the physical and character development they make possible.
A player who chooses to go where he's sure he'll play is simply not extending himself and not aspiring to find his highest potential. You do not help a teenager become a man by encouraging him to go only where he's sure he'll succeed.
When is success guarranteed? We're talking about baseball, right? I don't believe setting an 18 y/o up for failure is productive.
A player who seeks out the most challenging environment he can be a part of is looking for something better and has a better chance of finding it.
Wish in one hand and poop in the other. Let me know which hand fills up first.
So, go ahead and be sarcastic, but it won't change the fact that your advice is superficial and short-sighted. Every team has many more seats on the bench than spots in the line up, and coaches are real good at telling prospects what they want to hear. Players who think they're following your advice run the risk of either a) finishing their college careers without knowing how good they could have been because they chose to play at a level below their potential, or b) being ill prepared for reality when that sure-thing playing time evaporates in the face of competition against older, stronger men.
And a few that walk on at BCS U., will get innings. How will the rest ever know how good they could have been? That's how it works, but if it makes you feel better for your circumstances, walk on at whatever school.
I think you underestimate the average player's ability to understand where he will be challanged, but not "over his head". Players know this. They have a feel for where they CAN be successful with very hard work. They want to reach for the highest "reachable rung", which is fine. These kids have been playing progressively better quality baseball for 12 years, before college. They know. Many don't take their own best advice. If I had a dollar for every walk-on shipped out to NWSE Juco after Turkey Day, I'd be a millionaire.
It ain't rocket science to figure out where you should play baseball the next four years, imo. Some just make it look harder that it is.
Translation: It's all a c rap shoot. Pick one and make the most of it. Enjoy the ride. 
Dad04,
Sorry, but I don't play the inter-linear tit-for-tat game. It only leads to ever longer, ever less readable, and ever less constructive posts.
I take you at your word that your reading comprehension is up to snuff, even if spelling isn't a strong suit.
Therefore, when you jump in a day late still trying to distort what I said as somehow encouraging hopeless walk-ons, I have to assume you're only trying to score personal points and have no interest in advancing the conversation.
Sorry, but I don't play the inter-linear tit-for-tat game. It only leads to ever longer, ever less readable, and ever less constructive posts.
I take you at your word that your reading comprehension is up to snuff, even if spelling isn't a strong suit.
Therefore, when you jump in a day late still trying to distort what I said as somehow encouraging hopeless walk-ons, I have to assume you're only trying to score personal points and have no interest in advancing the conversation.
Challenged and guaranteed....good catches. Forgive my tardiness. I don't sit by the computer incessantly refreshing in hopes someone responds to my posts. BTW I got no dog in the hunt.
Swampboy,
I know of a situation where a HC invites players each year to try out in the fall. The program always has much more than 35 allowed on a D1 roster each fall. It's a state school with state tuition so if the player has grades that qualify, then they have paid tuition. Many of these players have family that have attended, and they grew up wanting to wear that schools uniform and be a part of the program, which is ranked among the top 5 in the country.
In some cases, many of these players have opportunities at smaller successful D1 programs with scholarships. Most if not all are cut, they leave to attend JUCO, their only option late fall.
IMO, these players were never really wanted, they provide the players that will make the roster opportunities to be more competitive, thinking that they may not make the team. This is how this coach does his business, I am not for or against this but just giving you a scenerio of what takes place.
So, in your opinion, is it ok to walk on and most likely not make the team or should they have gone to a program where the coach actually recruited him seriously and offered to pay for his tuition, for one year at least.
I know of a situation where a HC invites players each year to try out in the fall. The program always has much more than 35 allowed on a D1 roster each fall. It's a state school with state tuition so if the player has grades that qualify, then they have paid tuition. Many of these players have family that have attended, and they grew up wanting to wear that schools uniform and be a part of the program, which is ranked among the top 5 in the country.
In some cases, many of these players have opportunities at smaller successful D1 programs with scholarships. Most if not all are cut, they leave to attend JUCO, their only option late fall.
IMO, these players were never really wanted, they provide the players that will make the roster opportunities to be more competitive, thinking that they may not make the team. This is how this coach does his business, I am not for or against this but just giving you a scenerio of what takes place.
So, in your opinion, is it ok to walk on and most likely not make the team or should they have gone to a program where the coach actually recruited him seriously and offered to pay for his tuition, for one year at least.
quote:Originally posted by Dad04:
BTW I got no dog in the hunt.
I know. Your son had a fine college career. You must have given him good advice somewhere along the line.
Ready to move on.
quote:Originally posted by Swampboy:quote:Originally posted by Dad04:
BTW I got no dog in the hunt.
I know. Your son had a fine college career. You must have given him good advice somewhere along the line.
Ready to move on.
I drove the car, paid the bills. He played and made absolutely all his own decisions regarding his recruiting, including moving 700 miles away, with offers around the corner. He may be bright and fortunate, definately comes from "good stock", as my grandmother would say. He was consistently put in positions where he could be successful...with hard work. He did the work, still does. My role was relatively easy and simple. I seriously doubt he's some intuitive freak. You keep moving on.
SOS is correct. There is a lot of luck involved, mostly health related, imo. So, so many get dinged up and never reach their potential.
Swampboy,
Noticed your son is a 2011. Some of the posters responding have son's that are 'on the other side of where you are' and can look back.
You're right, you can't know what's gonna happen, but after you have talked to a number of schools, you can develop a 'feel' in your gut for what you think is best. But, only hindsight will reveal if the right decision has been made.
That's why you see many times on this site to pick a school where you would like to go if you don't continue in baseball.
A difficult acknowledgement to make.
Your son will have to work hard, have solid talent, and have some luck.
The luck's probably the part that's the most difficult to see from your perspective right now.
Another big factor is that players that head to large D1 programs just don't see much playing time as a freshman, as a general rule, especially pitchers.
So, many talented kids hit the big D1 and are disappointed to learn that they are starting over as freshman and competing against considerable talent, experience, and luck.
I would encourage you to review the conference where you son will be playing for playing time of freshman this past season.
Most simply don't have the patience to wait it out for their time to contribute.
My son's college coach told him during the recruiting visit that, "I'm giving you a chance. What you do with it is up to you."
He laid out the scenario of how my son would eventually play, but they signed other catchers before my son ever set foot on campus.
I can tell you that I had a lot of doubts about my son's decision during the time after he graduated high school and that first year as a freshman.
Have confidence in you son that he'll work hard, that his talent is at the right level, that his skill will improve, and that he'll have some luck.
When my son discussed his retirement from baseball with the director of personnel, he told my son, "All you needed was a little bit better timing and some luck..........."
I'll just remind you that you can't steal second base with one foot on first.....
Good luck to you and your son.
Me too, Dad04.
Noticed your son is a 2011. Some of the posters responding have son's that are 'on the other side of where you are' and can look back.
You're right, you can't know what's gonna happen, but after you have talked to a number of schools, you can develop a 'feel' in your gut for what you think is best. But, only hindsight will reveal if the right decision has been made.
That's why you see many times on this site to pick a school where you would like to go if you don't continue in baseball.
A difficult acknowledgement to make.
Your son will have to work hard, have solid talent, and have some luck.
The luck's probably the part that's the most difficult to see from your perspective right now.
Another big factor is that players that head to large D1 programs just don't see much playing time as a freshman, as a general rule, especially pitchers.
So, many talented kids hit the big D1 and are disappointed to learn that they are starting over as freshman and competing against considerable talent, experience, and luck.
I would encourage you to review the conference where you son will be playing for playing time of freshman this past season.
Most simply don't have the patience to wait it out for their time to contribute.
My son's college coach told him during the recruiting visit that, "I'm giving you a chance. What you do with it is up to you."
He laid out the scenario of how my son would eventually play, but they signed other catchers before my son ever set foot on campus.
I can tell you that I had a lot of doubts about my son's decision during the time after he graduated high school and that first year as a freshman.
Have confidence in you son that he'll work hard, that his talent is at the right level, that his skill will improve, and that he'll have some luck.
When my son discussed his retirement from baseball with the director of personnel, he told my son, "All you needed was a little bit better timing and some luck..........."
I'll just remind you that you can't steal second base with one foot on first.....
Good luck to you and your son.
quote:I drove the car, paid the bills. He played and made absolutely all his own decisions regarding his recruiting, including moving 700 miles away, with offers around the corner. He may be bright and fortunate, definately comes from "good stock", as my grandmother would say. He was consistently put in positions where he could be successful...with hard work. He did the work, still does. My role was relatively easy and simple. I seriously doubt he's some intuitive freak. You keep moving on.
Me too, Dad04.