Was wondering if the run would count in the following scenario. Bases loaded with one out. Player hits fly ball to outfield, runner at 3rd tags, runner at 1st does not tag and is doubled off of first inning over. Does the run count?
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If R3 touched HP before 1B or R1 was tagged, then the run counts. If not, the run does not count. This is an appeal play, not a force play. A runner is never forced to go back to a base.
It is a time play. The run scores if R3 touched the plate ahead of the 3rd out.
quote:Originally posted by Mr Umpire:
If R3 touched HP before 1B or R1 was tagged, then the run counts. If not, the run does not count. This is an appeal play, not a force play. A runner is never forced to go back to a base.
Just for clarity, OP stated that the R1 was forced at first because he did not tag up, so he was forced back once the fly was caught and he did not tag up, so it is not an appeal play, does it change the outcome
The runner was not forced back. A runner is never forced to go back to a base.quote:Originally posted by lefthookdad:quote:Originally posted by Mr Umpire:
If R3 touched HP before 1B or R1 was tagged, then the run counts. If not, the run does not count. This is an appeal play, not a force play. A runner is never forced to go back to a base.
Just for clarity, OP stated that the R1 was forced at first because he did not tag up, so he was forced back once the fly was caught and he did not tag up, so it is not an appeal play, does it change the outcome
The fly ball being caught did not force the runner to back to 1B. He could have gone to 2B. If the defense did not appeal, then he would be left at 2B. Thus, he is not forced to go back to a base. It is an appeal play. Runners are only forced to advance.
From the OBR:
A FORCE PLAY is a play in which a runner legally loses his right to occupy a base
by reason of the batter becoming a runner.
Rule 2.00 (Force Play) Comment: Confusion regarding this play is removed by remembering that frequently the “force” situation is removed during the play. Example: Man on first, one out, ball hit sharply to first baseman who touches the bag and batter-runner is out. The force is removed at that moment and runner advancing to second must be tagged. If there had been a runner on third or second, and either of these runners scored before the tag-out at second, the run counts. Had the first baseman thrown to second and the ball then had been returned to first, the play at second was a force out, making two outs, and the return throw to first ahead of the runner would have made three outs. In that case, no run would score.
Example: Not a force out. One out. Runner on first and third. Batter flies out. Two out.
Runner on third tags up and scores. Runner on first tries to retouch before throw from fielder reaches
first baseman, but does not get back in time and is out. Three outs. If, in umpire’s judgment, the runner
from third touched home before the ball was held at first base, the run counts.
The OP is straight from the example except there is 1 less runner on base.
A FORCE PLAY is a play in which a runner legally loses his right to occupy a base
by reason of the batter becoming a runner.
Rule 2.00 (Force Play) Comment: Confusion regarding this play is removed by remembering that frequently the “force” situation is removed during the play. Example: Man on first, one out, ball hit sharply to first baseman who touches the bag and batter-runner is out. The force is removed at that moment and runner advancing to second must be tagged. If there had been a runner on third or second, and either of these runners scored before the tag-out at second, the run counts. Had the first baseman thrown to second and the ball then had been returned to first, the play at second was a force out, making two outs, and the return throw to first ahead of the runner would have made three outs. In that case, no run would score.
Example: Not a force out. One out. Runner on first and third. Batter flies out. Two out.
Runner on third tags up and scores. Runner on first tries to retouch before throw from fielder reaches
first baseman, but does not get back in time and is out. Three outs. If, in umpire’s judgment, the runner
from third touched home before the ball was held at first base, the run counts.
The OP is straight from the example except there is 1 less runner on base.
As has been stated, runners are only forced forward and by virtue of the BR becoming a runner. Once he is putout the force is removed. The R1 is required to return to touch first, he is not forced to do so. The R3 does score if he does so before the appeal at first.