Skip to main content

I was watching a bull pen today. The pitcher had a very good change up, good fb, etc. However, the pitcher has trouble having the same stuff in a game.

Don't get me wrong. This is a very highly regarded pitcher.

It got me to wondering if others out there have kids with the same problem.

I know my son has a great bull pen change up, but is working very hard to relax and have it be as good in games. He tends to tighten up and aim it.

My question is do some kids look great in bullpens and not so good in games, is there a point at which it becomes debilitating and what kinds of things can be done to help?

On a more subtle level could this be why some pitchers are more highly regarded by pro scouts than college coaches?

My son had this problem when he was first starting out pitching. He was a late starter. We got him the book by Dorfman, "Mental ABC's of Pitching". It took 2 years to have his bullpen stuff go to the games situation.

Is this a makeup issue or a development issue?

Just wondering if others have thoughts on this.
"Don't sweat the small stuff." "I am responsible for the effort -- not the outcome. "
Last edited {1}
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Great question Eric! As you know,my son concentrated on basketball year round until his Jr year of hs- then made the switch to baseball, with many seasons of little league under his belt, but no select teams, year round play, or lessons etc.
After he focused on baseball year round, 2 things really relieved him of performance anxiety. the first was a really wise select coach. He told him he wasn't ready to be a starter- not enough experience - and proceeded to pull him into a game when it all seemed hopeless- you know the story- no outs, bases loaded, tie game etc, etc. He did this all summer. It worked- he gained a lot of needed experience in tough situations. He didn't really feel a lot of pressure- and had a fair amount of success, which led to his being a regular starter by the end of the season. I'll always be grateful to that coach for placing him in situations that allowed "quick catch up"
The second situation, as odd as this may sound, was the first (and only really horrible) time that he got "rocked". Oh, it was painful, but it got the monkey off his back, and led to wiser decision making regarding which pitch to throw in such situations. His feeling was, the worse has happened, things can only get better from here. It developed maturity. Sure hope it continues- the ante is upped making the transition from hs to college! 14
BigHit15- In my experience, I've found that the reason that many kids can't take their stuff to the mound from the pen is fear of failure. Many kids have a difficult time dealing with the pressure of being in the center of the diamond, and they struggle because they are thinking about the pressure and not the job at hand.
This is a difficult thing to combat because it is obviously mental and not physical. My advice is as follows:
1- Make sure the kid does the same routine to get ready every single time out. Some kids NEED that routine, and that is what relaxes them and reminds them that they will do well, like usual.
2- Have him get a good run in AFTER he throws in the pen. Some kids need to find an outlet for the eagerness and/or tension of the situation, and a good run will get the blood flowing and allow some escape for any anxiety that may have built up.
3- Positive reinforcement. All kids, regardless of how confident or cocky they seem, need positive reinforcement. That can really affect their mental approach to taking the mound, which in turn will certainly help them to know that the one person that could go with someone else (the head coach) doesn't want to...they feel that this kid is the right guy for the job.

**Good luck - not an exact science, but mental issues can really get in the way of great talent.
My son is a 5'10" and 147 lbs junior right now (155 in season, he's a wrestler) and cruises at 83. Not going to impress anybody. The only reason he is getting opportunities is his ability to take whatever it is that he has to the mound. It is his unbelievable belief in his ability. He gets better players out simply because he can't fathom that anyone is better than he is. It's really irrational. It isn't something he has to talk himself into. Obviously he has experienced failure. He's got the attention span of a squirrel, he's immature at times and his warmup routine (or lack of one) drives coaches nuts, but it's that closers or fighter pilot mentality and a short memory that enables him to succeed at every level to this point. As a young persons pitching coach, I think we spend too much time on mechanics and far too little time on the mental part of the game. Kyle Farnsworth of the Cubs could have used some mental attention? I'd love to get into his head and crawl around a bit! Also Coach Knight, I really like your approach. Smile
With pitching at the HS level and even more so, post high school there is an emphasis is on location. Some guys can throw a good pen because they consider it just that, a pen. Then they go into a game and will get rocked or can't hit a spot. As Coach Knight says consistent preparation is the key to consistent success. There is nothing more frustrating than a watching a "get ready" bull pen where at the end of the session the pitcher is not using game time rhythm and spotting, and then wonders why he can not succeed.
Last edited by rz1
Normally have a different kind of problem. Bullpens prior to a game are no problem. Everything is building towards starting the game, working the pitches, refining the touch.

Our problem was always throwing pen's in showcases where you don't actually pitch. It just felt wrong. You weren't building towards anything, not polishing and refining for that days event, working on your concentration, focus, etc.

He never had a good showcase pen in his life. The games were never a problem.
I see where you are coming from about the "meaningless pens". However, I think it's a stage where no matter what level, you will be judged. Last year at my sons college games whenever there was a draft eligible pitcher warming up many of the scouts would be right there front row. Afterall, they get the opportunity to look up close and personal usually within 20 feet at mechanics, ball movement, nerves, and whatever else they look for with out having the game as a distraction. Pitchers are the only position that gets these solo performances on a regular basis. It may be hard to get focused and pumped during a pen but I think it is something to work on because you never know who is watching.
Last edited by rz1
Mine almost always takes his problems in the pen to the mound. I think we sometimes have looser standards for success in the pen and are surprised when that doesn't work on the mound.

Facing a hitter can help some pitchers because the hitters will help them by putting the ball in play before they can walk the hitter and it will hurt other pitchers because the hitter will put the ball in play hard on what would be considered a good pitch in the pen.
Fortunately, not long after my son starting pitching he was extremely candid in some of our post-game discussions. I quickly realized that confidence is huge in pitching. Seems to be a greater factor in hitting than in fielding.

Since that time I always worked very hard to help my pitchers build confidence. Lots of positive reinforcement, and choosing my words very carefully when things were not going well.

At this point, my son hopes to go on the hill when it is late in the game with bases loaded and no outs. He just loves those situations. And he has become very successful in those situations. He was the top closer on his select team, even though he was 1-2 years younger than the rest of the team. And not a big fellow either.

With regard to what goes on in warmups, it doesn't shake his confidence. If a given pitch isn't working well in the pen, he will go ahead & try it in the game. If it still isn't working, he will use other pitches to get the job done. He throws more different pitches than the average pitcher, so this doesn't pose the problem that it would for a two or three pitch pitcher.

Now if I can just get more of that confidence to rub off on his hitting...
Working on a pitcher's mental tools is just as important as working on the other tools.
One might have a great bullpen, basically few mechanical problems, but then during the game the breakdown that occurs could be mental. Most experienced pitchers can tell from their bullpen before a game if their stuff is or is not working. If it is not working, he may feel less confident when he begins, if it is working and gets rocked, he could lose confidence. I do believe this is where good coaching comes into play.
Phoenixdad,
Don't worry about throwing those pens in the showcases where your son does not pitch, those scouts and coaches know exactly what they are looking for. This might be a good area of mental training to work on so he feels confident and relaxed.
A pen prior to taking the mound, with out a purpose is meaningless and causes irratic "spot" pitching.

Does your pitching coach teach "Zeroing In" by location. If your pitcher does not know what this is he is going to the mound with a shotgun not a rifle. The rifle affect is what you want.

After I stopped coaching my son he has never had a coach that teaches "Zeroing In". But after his high school season he finally gave up on just throwing pens and started "Zeroing In" again. As a result he started hitting his spots more consistently.

What is "zeroing in"?

It is pitching to location in a methodical way.

Starting with the locations at 6 inches off the plate hitting spots at locations which are numbered and presented by the catcher as the second series of signs, ie., as in for instance. The first sign, is type of pitch, second sign is "spot location". Some catchers will give an influence location by tapping the inner thigh, or some other similar sign to alert the pitcher at what degree of movement he wants on the pitch.

But in the bullpen "zeroing in" requires that the pitcher go through a methodical routine.

It starts with location at the 6 inch off the plate.

Starting with the FB...

Next location is the "black edge" of the plate.

Next location is "down the middle" used at 3-0 counts.

And is done on both sides of the plate, using a "phantom" right handed batter.

Then the CB...same thing all over again.

then the Changeup...same thing all over again.

Each location should be thrown to until the pitcher can hit the location three pitches in a row...with each type of pitch.

This routine should be practiced with every bullpen...and should take around 25 to 50 pitches...or from 15 minutes to 30 minutes depending on what kind of level of pitcher.

The problem with most pitchers, catchers and coaches is the complete undisciplined nature of the way they handle this aspect of getting ready to go to the mound.

I've watched pitchers throw for 10 minutes with no rhyme or reason to their warm up and then wonder why the first pitch they throw is deposited over the fence.

As much as I have coached about this kind of thinking in warming up, pitchers don't always zero in. And then you have the programs that leave it up to the catcher to decide how many pitches he's going to catch before he stops the bullpen...and that's a total mistake.

What does zeroing in do for your pitcher...it gives him the confidence he needs that he has locked in his locations before he goes to the mound...and for a pitcher that is everything.

You can teach, but people don't always listen. It is up to the coaches to make sure their pitchers are zeroing in...period.
Last edited by PiC
We generally follow a routine I probably found a link to from this board. After loosening up we have them throw 4 pitches to a target a foot outside, 4 to a target a foot inside, 4 on the outside corner and 4 on the inside corner. We then have them throw 6 or 7 off speed pitches, a fastball to get the feel again and then 1 or 2 simulated batters.
There's the preparation side of things, both mental and physical, that give a kid confidence ... then there's just the mental makeup that is a lot genetics and some training induced behavior.

I've watched a lot of pitchers and goalkeepers because, well, my son is a pitcher and used to be a club-level goalkeeper. Both positions give parents heart attacks ... but you see two categories of kids: those that just roll with it when a goal is scored or a HR hit off them and are able to immediately come back with a big save or a money pitch as if nothing had happened ... and other kids where they can't shake it and their performance spirals downward rapidly. There are simply some personalities that aren't afraid to put themselves in critical situations over and over regardless of the outcome ... and others that can't get past their fear of failure, even before they've failed.

If you can't handle failure, you'll struggle mightily at baseball. My older son ... the one you've seen me refer to here before has a baseball personality, and excels at the game. My younger son just finished LL ... he's at best an average player and there are no "little things" in his life. Everything is a "Big Thing". I've had him play baseball not in the hopes that he'll ever be a better than average player, but to teach him how to deal with failure more productively in all areas of his life and how to work productively in a team environment. If he eventually develops his own passion for the game ... that's just a bonus.
Last edited by pbonesteele
Texan, we have the same kid and the same philosophy! Part of my brief to players, coaches and parents before the season is that I prefer no one talking to our pitcher but me. I want it all positive until I think it's time not to be positive and only I know when that is. Why? Because I've worked with each of them all Winter that's why. There is nothing that gets my goose more than a parent yelling out, "Don't lose him" or "Cmon just throw strikes" or the infamous "Let em hit it"!

PiC, I enjoyed reading your post, all I'll say is that you go about it like an engineer. There is an "ART" to pitching and preparing to pitch as well as there are artists and engineers. Never try to make an engineer out of an artist and visa versa. Do you agree?
Texan & Half ... yeah, as a parent, I've learned to just keep my mouth shut unless it's just general cheering ... "atta boy", "battle up there", "good job 20". I figure my son knows much more than me about what to do in a particular situation, so any 'sugggestions' I might yell out right in the middle of any critical situation is simply a distraction.

One of the guys I used to coach LL with would always say "Players play, Coaches coach, and parents just cheer".
Last edited by pbonesteele
Some great stuff here. I agree with Pic and Knight Coach's post. Both have something important to offer.

I'm not very smart but can I add one thing that happened this summer with my girl. We were playing the #1 team in state. We were driving to the game and she made a comment about how upset her tummy was. I laughed and said mine was too. She couldn't believe it. I told her I used to feel that way every time I pitched. She didn't believe me because I'm so confident in what I do. HECK, I TOLD HER MANY PEOPLE GET THAT FEELING. Believe it or not, that made it ok. She thought something was wrong with her because of that feeling. I would recommend that you have a good talk about that feeling. Then, I think you find a system where the routine takes over and the anxiety lessens. For most people, once the game gets going, they no longer think about the anxiety.

Our routine:

  • she listens to the Disney station in the car and sings songs on the way to the game.
  • when we get to the site because we are early, she eats a banana and drinks an 8oz glass of water.
  • when the game before us or 30 minutes before the game, she runs and stretches.
  • 20 minutes before game, she starts bullpen throwing locations etc.
  • 5 minutes, drink of water, towel down and sit in chair waiting for umpires talk to finish.


All of this is JMHO! I think anything such as this will work.
Last edited by CoachB25

Add Reply

×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×