Don't be this dad

It is a shame that this dad could not just attend the game and keep his mouth shut. i remembering going to our high school games when my son was younger for several reasons..1. Knew some of the players ( older brothers of my son's friends 2. I enjoy the heck of watching high school baseball 3. did give me some idea of what my son had to work on to be ready for his turn. Usually would just stand by myself and then on way out talk to a few of the parents I knew but only to say somehiing about the game.

I know you are not critizing this parent for attending ( just his motivation for attending) I wish more parents of younger players would show up and support the varisty team.

Sometimes, these dads don't really think about what they're saying and who they're saying it to. Although I gotta admit if I was the parent of the current #1 pitcher this dad was blowing his horn to and didn't know it, I might've been tempted had a little fun with it, but you kinda want to avoid that.

My son is the projected #1 next year. I thought about jerking the guy around. But my son is earning his wings as one of two to be the first starting sophomores in six years (starts in the field and pitches in relief). Right now my place is to be humble and let my son's ability or any parent who would like to compliment his efforts, do the talking.

When my son was in 8th grade I attended some JV home games to see the level of competition. I was sure he wouldn't be on the freshman team. After a few innings I would go watch the varsity. I knew kids (and the dads) playing at both levels.

quote:

Don't be this dad

Or mom...

Julie

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
My son is the projected #1 next year. I thought about jerking the guy around. But my son is earning his wings as one of two to be the first starting sophomores in six years (starts in the field and pitches in relief). Right now my place is to be humble and let my son's ability or any parent who would like to compliment his efforts, do the talking.

That's really all you can do. Keep quiet and let him ramble on.The talent will dictate where this future freshman will wind up. That dad will get a reality check if the kid don't make varsity.

From a different slant, I used to get comments about my son when he was tearing up JV with his bat and covering the outfield like a blanket from some of the parents from the varsity who came over from the varsity game to watch and some commented that he had no business on a JV field. I really couldn't say much other than telling those who said it that they're right, he is wasting on jv and would be of more use on varsity, but because the HC decides so I blew it off knowing he should've been on varsity all along or at least gotten a better look in preseason but continued to work hard and play the game right and eventually, he proved himself and quickly won a starting spot on the varsity.

My son didn't complain too much because he knew most of the juniors on varsity didn't play while he played every inning on jv. That year, there were 15 juniors in the program and 7 made varsity out of spring training and 8 went to JV. He was only one of two players called up out of the 8 and the only one to become an everyday player on the varsity.

Just another point of view, from a freshmans dad. I went to some varsity games last year (along with some freshman and sophomore) when my son was a 8th grader. I wasn't going thinking my son would play varsity ( hopefully he does well this year, he made the freshman team) he would be overmatched any freshman would if your in a hotbed of baseball. I regress, but I was there to check-out the style of play, and coaching at all 3 levels as we had only moved to the town 1 1/2yrs ago and new they had a top program. I must say some of the dads were very standoffish, to me a friendly person ,they acted like " until your son makes varsity your beneath us". I told them my son was in 8th grade and we were knew to the town, how was the coaching? do they play summer ball?, general questions ,none specfic about my son. "Well 1st he has to make the team, 80 freshman tried out only 18 made it". Just rude answers to general questions they came across as full of themselves, team was good but not that good. I always try to be polite and help anyone I can with my experinces, as many of the people on this site are doing for me now. It gave me a bad impression of them, luckily it seems they are the exception and not the majority of people in this program. I always remember that I too am a representative of my sons team when I am watching and try to be helpfull when possible. I think sometimes everyone says things without realizing how it sounds to others (maybe those dads) --or brag about there kids without realizing it--I know I have (hopefully not in this post).

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
An 8th grade dad showed up to watch. We knew what he was doing. He was sizing up his son's chance to make varsity next year.

The dad proceeded to break down what he saw, tell us how good his son is and where he'll fit in on varsity next year. He also told us the high school coach is very high on his son. When he got done with our group he proceeded to another group of parents he knew and did the same rap.

The dad said since all three starters will graduate his son should step right in and be the #1 starter. His kid throws about 70mph.

That's funny!! I've met a few of those myself, they think their grade is so talented that about half of their class should step right in and rescue the varsity program!

quote:

Originally posted by Innocent Bystander:

That's funny!! I've met a few of those myself, they think their grade is so talented that about half of their class should step right in and rescue the varsity program!

Yea...I've heard that one too. You'll get that line if you got a town all-star team that had success playing together and the prevailing thought is these players will dominate when they make varsity only to learn the roster is quite a bit different in high school, especially a big school. Players who played are now sitting, some will get the call up another level, some quit and by time they're seniors, the team had little resembance as they did at say 13U.

Before my son's first game, the last HS game I saw was one I played in (pretty sure I came in to close and ended up walking off trying to avoid the game winning HR hitter coming around third - but that might not have been my last game).

My son is a freshman pitcher who made varsity as a relief pitcher. His team has many seniors who are very good and have been playing together for a long time. I'm definitely the 'new guy'. I will say, however that they've been very open, supportive and great people to be around. They seem happy telling old stories to someone who hasn't heard them before and I enjoy listening. Basically, a really good group. Not too uptight, very supportive and just all around good folks. I enjoy going to the games and sitting with them. I've heard the story about how close they came in LL All Stars (seniors have played together since they were 9) from at least five different perspectives. I could probably generate the last inning in a score book from memory...

The team seems to have many good leaders and they've been great to my son, taking him under their wing and really making him feel welcome. He hasn't played except to pitch but he doesn't seem to be minding so much as he's learning much. You can see the other thread about freshman sitting the bench, I had nothing to add to that but could sympathsize with everything said there (both pro and con).

I finally decided that as long as he's happy, he's working out at better practices, picking up good habits from good kids and not throwing 150 pitches a day, he's probably OK.

I've also learned a lot by listening to the parents. Cody has learned to listen to the seniors.

Bottom line, I think you learn more by listening than by talking...

8th grader throw 70mph is below average among the elite travel teams. Most pitcher in our 14U team throw above 75mph. Between 75-79 is the working speed. I don't know where does this Dad get the idea that his son can be #1 on Varsity, is he on drug or something?

RJM, how fast does your son throw? Why are you so confident that he will be #1 next year? Just curious.

quote:

Originally posted by bbking:
8th grader throw 70mph is below average among the elite travel teams. Most pitcher in our 14U team throw above 75mph. Between 75-79 is the working speed. I don't know where does this Dad get the idea that his son can be #1 on Varsity, is he on drug or something?

RJM, how fast does your son throw? Why are you so confident that he will be #1 next year? Just curious.

The kid doesn't play travel. He plays Junior Legion. The dad has no idea how big and bad is the world of serious competition. The better players don't play Junior Legion in our area. They play travel.

My son's development isn't the point of the thread. The point is the dad of an 8th grader shouldn't cruise the varsity parents at a game telling them his son will make varsity next year, much less be the ace of the staff.

I don't want the direction of the thread to change. If you're that interested in my son's development PM me.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
I don't want the direction of the thread to change. If you're that interested in my son's development PM me.

Fair enough, then you should not use the sentence
"My son is the projected #1 next year" in this thread. That rises questions.

So you're going to tell me how to post? The comment was relevant to the post I responded. An explanation isn't. If I detail the skills and development of my son versus the other pitchers in the program the focus of the thread will change towards my son. It's not what the thread is about. I would never start a thread titled, "My son will be the #1 pitcher next year." Therefore I won't change the direction of a thread in that direction. Besides you asked why I'm so confident my son will be #1 next year. I said he's projected to be the #1. The projection is based on the coaches comments and where he sits on the staff this year.

So, let's back to the thread, What's wrong with the "70mph dad" "projected" his son to be #1 based on his coaches comments and where his son sits in his team?

What I am trying to say is that if your son throws above 80mph, your son is head & shoulder above the other kid, than projected #1 is reasonable. And as the "80mph dad", you can dis the "70mph dad" more convincingly in this thread, that will help your case, am I right?

I'm sure the coach didn't tell the kid he's making varsity next year. Like all academy instructors I'm sure he made encouraging remarks on progress. The middle school season hasn't started yet. No one knows where he sits on his team. Last summer he was the third starter on a losing Junior Legion team. He only pitched against the worst teams in a weak league. The better players don't play Junior Legion.

Even if my son wasn't a pitcher I'd still make the post regarding the 8th grade dad's performance at a varsity game in front of varsity parents. The dad's behavior is the point of the thread, not my son. In fact, the first person to make a negative comment as soon as the guy left, was the dad of a position player. A bunch of other parents rolled their eyes while the guy was talking.

Like I posted earlier, I'm not going to turn this thread into a discussion on my son's pitching. I suggested if you want to know more about his pitching you may PM me. Otherwise, I guess you and I don't have anything more to discuss.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
The dad's behavior is the point of the thread.

I found there's nothing wrong with high expectations from the loving parents. Although he is little bit unrealistic, but I think he will find out what a true varsity pitcher is about. If your son throw under 80 and you show your disrespect toward the other dad, it just makes you look as bad as the other dad, so why do you use the title "don't be this dad"? At least he got the confidence on his son and he got the gut to say those things in front of the "general mean public".

I didn't post my son's velocity. Whether it's over or under 80 is irrelevant. Whether he pitches or not is irrelevant. I've coached travel through 16U. I know what a varsity pitcher looks like. I know what a JV pitcher looks like. I know what a freshman pitcher looks like. The program has JV pitchers hitting 80. They will move up next year before this kid. I doubt the kid will #1 on JV next year.

No one saw the dad as enthusiastic. They saw him as a clueless fool. You don't approach a bunch of varsity player's parents whose kids have worked very hard and paid their dues to make varsity that your 8th grade son is better. If he wanted to see what a varsity pitcher looks like he should have shut up and observed. Had he asked what it takes to make varsity rather than telling parents his son was going to be the stud, he would have received some constructive advice.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
They saw him as a clueless fool. You don't approach a bunch of varsity player's parents whose kids have worked very hard and paid their dues to make varsity your son is better.

Wow, talk about team work! Varsity or Freshman team, they are all players for your HS team, I hope those Varsity parents won't make an even bigger fool of themselves.

bbking: Are you looking to start an argument? The issue is about the conduct of the father of an 8th grader with no points of reference. You are trying to spin it in another direction. Why is that?

I think it's generally a good rule of thumb not to go up to a bunch of strangers and start talking about how great your kid is.*

LHPMom


*Unless those strangers are outside a burning building, and your child is the firefighter charging in to save their loved ones.

Kinda like coming on a message board and saying that your son will be the number 1 starter next year?

quote:

Originally posted by Doughnutman:
Kinda like coming on a message board and saying that your son will be the number 1 starter next year?

You must have reading comprehension issues. That's not what I posted. My son is the projected #1 next year. The statement is relevant to another poster's comments.

I thought the original post would be a good example to the inexperienced pre high school baseball parents on what to avoid doing. Now do you have anything constructive to add to the topic of the thread.

The point is projected by who? If it is you and the other parents then it is just a Dad's opinion. You are doing the same thing as the unPC Dad, just in a different place. Some of the parents of next year's senior and junior pitchers might disagree. If the HC came up to you and said, "Your son is my number one next year." Then I apologize.


Quick edit. I think that if a thread is about making fun of some Dad who is a bit overconfident in his sons ability, there is no need to be serious or stay on subject. Besides, you brought your projections up in this thread, not me. And it isn't the first time or the fiftiest time you have done it.

quote:

I don't know where does this Dad get the idea that his son can be #1 on Varsity, is he on drug or something?

bbking why so personal and so harsh? I assume RJM is simply making deductions based on what he saw or heard last year and this year. I didn't see RJM's comments as a promo of his kid or as a put down to the incoming kid(s) but simply explaining the different parents and their different perspectives.
You should be acutely aware of the the impending situations you will be faced with (you reference to your son's 14u team). You too will be evaluating your son's talent (or should be) and his his ability to fit in no matter where he plays. Do so with caution, it can be a slippery slope in doing so. Most all of us have watched our sons make the move from team to team and the move to HS ball is especially full of unknowns. Like most parents I was worried if my son would make the freshman or varsity team. He did make the varsity squad but I found out right away there were parents of upperclassmen that I had to show unwavering respect to simply because their sons had already "made it". I soon realized the responsibility to maintain peace rested with me --- the father of the incoming freshman. This was their turf and I (we) were the newcomers. If the newbies says: "My son" -- or -- "His last team", the alienation starts.

As my son assumed the role of batting in the #3 hole as a freshman and became the starting catcher on varsity I had to become MORE humble and less assertive. Granted there were highs and lows but eventually my son became the "property" of ALL the parents. He became one of "their" players. When he did well, "their" team did well and they liked that. They eventually became the strongest supporters of my son. Play your cards right and it can be an enjoyable experience.
Fungo

quote:

He did make the varsity squad but I found out right away there were parents of upperclassmen that I had to show unwavering respect to simply because their sons had already "made it". I soon realized the responsibility to maintain peace rested with me --- the father of the incoming freshman. This was their turf and I (we) were the newcomers.

My son also made the varsity team and started last year as a freshman on a team with a lot of seniors (10). We had much the same experience with the parents on this team. I pretty much just kept my mouth shut and let the kid play ball. By the end of the year, he was just just one of team and the other parents supported him whole heartedly. It was a very good season and we had a heck of a time.

Man...we haven't even had tryouts up here yet!! Still snow on the fields!! Tryouts on the 23rd...so getting closer.

As a father of an 8th grader I appreciate RJM's heads up. My son happens to be a pitcher who will be heading on to the High School next year. I was hoping to catch a few games this season myself to check out the level of play. Up here Freshman rarely if ever sniff the Varsity field, but JV is a real possibility (no Juniors on JV..not good enough for Varsity as a Junior then you're done). While that will ultimately be the goal for next season, I now know to keep my mouth quiet when watching the games of the upperclassmen, although for the most part we all know each other from the Cal Ripken years anyways.

As far as RJM's comment about his son being the "projected # 1" (which isn't a stretch..he will be a Junior next season I believe) it WAS in total response to the prior post from Zombywoof. It was not used in the context of bragging about his son, hence he really didn't need to comment more on it. He actually stated that his son was "earning his wings" in relief this year..so obviously the #1 spot is being earned not just handed to him. I think most of us could spot the incoming #1 for the next season, which would RARELY if ever be an incoming Freshman. Also he mentioned that for his son's program Freshman and Sophomores rarely even make the Varsity team (not uncommon up here in the Northeast where Juniors and Seniors rule) which makes the father's statements even more outrageous.

quote:

If the HC came up to you and said, "Your son is my number one next year." Then I apologize.

I'm not my son's agent. He deals with the coaching staff. This is another fact of life parents need to learn as their son enters high school ball.

When the coach sat down with my son to set goals for the season he told him pitching mechanics would be the focus. He told my son he expects him to be #1 next year. My son is also the highest ranking non senior on the pitching staff. Now that's more than I wanted to discuss my son in this thread.

I noticed this morning that RJM has posted on more than one thread that his son is one of only two soph. varsity starters in 6 years at his school. I took that to be a little crowing as well. Heck, we all do it from time to time. I guess it's just more acceptable here than at the field.

If that is what happened then I do apologize RJM. It just seems a little strange to me that a HC would tell a kid who has never thrown a pitch at the varsity level that he is going to be his number 1 NEXT year before this season has started.

I guess I am just using my own experiences and those of kids that I know on varsity. Our HS coach only talks about this season. The parents are the ones who project about next year.

quote:

Our HS coach only talks about this season.

At the end of tryouts the coach sits down with every player. With the players who make each team he discusses strengths and weaknesses. He tells them what he expects this year contributing to the team and what development he wants to see to be a better player next year. At the end of the season he reviews personal progress and what development he wants to see in the offseason. To help the coach's projection, my son pitched well for him in 18U travel fall ball.

RJM,
I guess it just comes down to me holding a grudge I guess and thinking that you are being a little bit of a hypocrite. Two years ago you gave me a hard time on eteamz about my son leaving a team to play SS on a better team because you projected your son to be the starting corner outfielder on V as a freshman and that positions don't matter. Then you came on and made fun of a Dad on your own team who said his son was going to be the starter at SS next year when you had your son projected to be the starter. Now you come on and make fun of a Dad who thinks his son will be a starter ahead of your son who you project as the number 1 next year. Your last two projections were incorrect and both came on a message board at the expense of another parent.
I guess it just bothered me. I hope you are correct this time and I sincerely wish your son the best. He sounds like a good ball player.

I would have told the dad "I wish your son well and good luck to him next season"

It doesn't matter what dad says... or what the team parents think.......... its the players who have to prove them selves on the field. Relax and enjoy the game
-

quote:

Originally posted by Doughnutman:
RJM,
I guess it just comes down to me holding a grudge I guess and thinking that you are being a little bit of a hypocrite. Two years ago you gave me a hard time on eteamz about my son leaving a team to play SS on a better team because you projected your son to be the starting corner outfielder on V as a freshman and that positions don't matter. Then you came on and made fun of a Dad on your own team who said his son was going to be the starter at SS next year when you had your son projected to be the starter. Now you come on and make fun of a Dad who thinks his son will be a starter ahead of your son who you project as the number 1 next year. Your last two projections were incorrect and both came on a message board at the expense of another parent.
I guess it just bothered me. I hope you are correct this time and I sincerely wish your son the best. He sounds like a good ball player.

I NEVER said my son was projected to start as a freshman. I said he was one of three freshmen being allowed to tryout for varsity. He wasn't expected to make it. I saw it as an opportunity to get on the radar screen which he did. He was one of the last two players cut. He skipped freshman ball. His only longshot possibility to start would have been had a certain infielder been moved to another position, which was considered. Left field was not even an available position. It had a returning senior starter.

What I have said is when high school players are younger and can hit, the avenue to the starting lineup is usually left and right field. This is why it's so important for a kid to learn how to play outfield in 13U-15U.

Last year my son was told he would likely be the shortstop his soph year. The coach told him. Nothing was guaranteed. The third baseman played short in 18U summer ball and performed well. The coach decided to play the kid at short this year and my son at third. I believe my son has better tools. But the other kid has seniority and a year of varsity experience. That counts for something. Neither my son nor I care where he plays as long as he's in the lineup. He is the shortstop on his travel team.

I'm very disappointed this thread has turned from an important point to a referendum on my son due to your misguided bitterness.

RJM,
I have never, ever said one bad thing about your son. Ever. I have congratuated you on this site and others on his accomplishments anytime that I have mentioned him.

However,
You are a different story. Nice spin by the way.

Always managing to keep it personal, aren't you?

Typical. Ignore the fact that you accused me of talking bad about your son. Ignore all of the true facts in my post and spin away. Say what you want, say it how you want. It won't change the truth.

rjm

while i have no dog in this fight, i'll throw in my 2 cents. i have read your post for a few year's, your a pasionate guy. opinionated at times, but who isn't. i must cofess i enjoy'ed the bickering.lol

the post about your son's projection, really didn't add to the thread about the dad. that's ok too,it is what it is. we've all done it.

i'm not the all mighty, but i've been through this before. life is short, hs ball is even shorter. put aside the he said, coach said stuff and enjoy your son's hs time.

we never know when their playing time is done. while they may all play in college, they may not play next year. too many things can change from yr to yr, month to month.

enjoy each game for what it is, another reason to watch your son play. it won't be there forever.

quote:

Originally posted by Daque:
bbking: Are you looking to start an argument? The issue is about the conduct of the father of an 8th grader with no points of reference. You are trying to spin it in another direction. Why is that?

You always come to TG's defense, why is that?

[I found out right away there were parents of upperclassmen that I had to show unwavering respect to simply because their sons had already "made it". I soon realized the responsibility to maintain peace rested with me --- the father of the incoming freshman. This was their turf and I (we) were the newcomers. If the newbies says: "My son" -- or -- "His last team", the alienation start]

Funny how the parents "status" is based on son's ability...parents haven't done a darn thing in the game on the field,their busy playing a game on the sidelines.

Enjoy the time with your sons, don't sweat the small stuff