Draft $

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Originally posted by dennisr400:
After looking thru the 03 draft bonus money I found it hard to believe some of the huge differences between players within a few draft slots of each other.

I know each situation can be unique based on team needs, player leverage, players health etc. but why some of the huge differences?

I know in other sports players are basically slotted and money goes on a sliding scale from player to player and round to round.

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1) Leverage which was used to their benefit by:

2) Better Agents

Well, college seniors have no bargaining power. Some took $1000 to sign and get their careers started. Juniors have more power, but often pro teams know they don't want to go back to school. HS seniors have the most to bargain with, as most have solid D1 offers.

VC,
You are funny.

vc, are your initials A.L.? I think I know who you are...the mystery might be coming to an end...just kidding.

After the 2nd round or so, the money is fairly consistent accordingly to round and player's draft age. HS players get the most, then JUCO and college juniors, with college seniors getting the least amount. Occasionally a player further down the list appears to get more money, but that is often due to a prior agreement with the drafting club (for instance, they say that they will be drafting you in a later round if you are still available and promise to give you higher round money).

Is there a single source to look at to see what all of the '03 signees signed for? Thanks.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/draft/2003draftdb.html

Try this

the Florida Bombers
"I love the HSBBW"

Thanks Big E; should have gone straight to you with the Q!

There are many factor involved in bonus's but among them are Agents, Colleges, Background, Grades, What the family says or doesn't say.

TBross - and how do you suggest that those factors impact bonus $$$? Please be more speicific - for example, if you have signed with a top D1 baseball and academic program and you have good grades and test scores does that get you more or less $$$? As your comment stands it's not very helpful - tell us the treatment of your factors that result in the most $$$. Thanks.

"Every day is a new opportunity. You can build on yesterday's success or put its failures behind and start over again. That's the way life is, with a new game every day, and that's the way baseball is." - Bob Feller

i was a 7th round draft...60 g bonus....but that level is totally different from college...get a degree than go to the draft....trust me...an eduaction is far more important than baseball...if you arnt drafted in the top 5 rounds....even if you are still get your degree

Jonesin

Did you attend college? What level D1, D2,? What are some of the key differences between college level baseball and lower minor leagues? Talent? Team spirit? Just curious.

Dad04 ...

On a light hearted note ... one of the big differences is that college ball will be the last time anybody cares if the team wins or loses until they get to the Bigs.

Hmom

So I hear.

Highlandermom,

I tend to disagree.

My son has cared about every "W" or "L" he has had in his minor league career. He really cares when he is removed from a game(due to pitch count limits) in a position for a "W" and then has to watch from the bench while others turn his "W" into a "L". He also cares every time he takes a "L" due to poor defense or lack of run support. And... he cares extreemly much about the couple of times that he has not been able to be on top of his game and feels that his performance has let his team down.

Those in charge who are watching the minor league performances also care about which players display a winning attitude- even if the team is not always doing so hot. Ultimately, the really successful MLB players are the "winners" who make it through the tough years while others may not have as great of a winning attitude.

At least this has been my experience through my son's 2 minor league seasons. Attend a minor league post-season play-off game and see if you see anyone caring.

OPP ...

I am sure you are right, and I would be the last person to ever question whether a player had a "winning attitude". Even our son, who is just draft eligible this year, wants to "win" in his scrimmages.

I was just sharing some thoughts that I have heard expressed by friends whose sons play minor league ball ... as they feel that the emphasis there is on development, not necessarily winning.

04 Prospect there is no simple answer for your question every case is different. the premiss being the teams must buy you out of and education and way of life. lets be honest here if you are from a good middle class back ground and have the ability to go to college and the team believes you will go, then you are in a much stronger bargaining position. But it is not that easy. You have to know who you are dealing with and what their hot buttons are and also how far you can push the envelope before you lose the deal. A good agent can only get you what you get for yourself on and off the field. We can only make sure you get what the market will bear you getting. We are not magicians we are business men. I will tell you now if you are anxious to sign or don't have options you are going to get hurt in the process.

dad 04

college ball is a experience to really learn about yourself and actually how good you really are....college is a real political aspect of the game, but when you get drafted it becomes even more political and competitive....the low minor leagues is about players just trying to make it...college level is far more advance by the way of fundamentals compared to all around talent....you can notice a talented player in the minors but they really look for attitude...if you are not a high pick they will cut you...plain and simple....any more questions feel free to ask....

jonesin, can you explain what they mean by they look for attitude. Are you saying that in the low minors, mental makeup is almost as important or more important than skills?

Thanks

jonesin

Can you further explain

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college level is far more advance by the way of fundamentals compared to all around talent

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Do you mean that college games are played more "by the book"?

How does the talent compare in low minors and SEC for example? With the difference in bats its hard for me to tell.

The pitching in AA looks MUCH better to me than college, at any level. The pitching in rookie ball looks inconsitant.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jonesin:
dad 04

"college ball is a experience to really learn about yourself and actually how good you really are...."

College ball is the equivalent of college ball & NOTHING more. To say it is more advanced is ridiculous. They're playing an entirely different game because:

1)Aluminum Rocket launchers in the batters hands

2)Practice Mon-Thurs. games Fri-Sun vs games almost every day & practice with instructors or on your own.

3)70 game seasons & Summer Leagues vs 120 games + Spring Training & Instructional League.

4)Wide disparity in talent between SEC, ACC, Pac-10 etc & other leagues vs. consistent level of talent in Cal. League, Carolina League & Fla. State League for example.

5)Better/more instructors in Pro ball

"you can notice a talented player in the minors but they really look for attitude"

That's nonsense. If it were true, how would you explain the players (not naming names) that make it to the Majors with TERRIBLE "me first, me last & me always" type attitudes?

"if you are not a high pick they will cut you...plain and simple"

Also nonsense. A high pick certainly has more chances to fail before they will give up on him. Tell Mike Piazza, Ryne Sandberg, Don Mattingly & ALL the Dominican & Venezuelan players in the Majors to go home if only high draft picks don't get cut.

Voodochile

I'd have to agree based on what I've seen. Southern League corner players are all mature, big, strong, ball crushing mashers with wood bats. A and AA Pitchers throw harder, hit spots with ungodly breaking stuff. AA just has more that A ball.

The more I watch college baseball, at different levels from FL juco to Atlantic-Sun games to Sunbelt and even SEC games, I notice more small, light hitting infielders, pitchers that throw like average+ high school guys, and stud hitters missing fat pitches on fields with shorter fences like at U of Florida in Gainesville.

These things I don't see in pro ball outside of the couple of Gulf Coast league games I've caught.

All purely laymens observations, on my part.

voodo

hey i really respect your opinions that is what this board is for...i can tell you have a great knowledge of the game and that is wonderful....i am going to answer your question, but first i have one question for you....have you ever played competitive d1 or in the minors? here are some of your answers to your questions.

aluminum rockets in hand.....
- i totally agree with you on this one....they should get rid of alum bats in college....most kids who play competitve college ball do not use alum in the off season...if you play in just about any summer league whether its the cape cod to the alaskan league its all wood bat...your right now comparison on hitting with a alum bat compared to a wood bat...swinging with a wood bat is far more difficult in terms of "not being able to cheat"...

70 games a season and summer league vs. 120 games and spring training and instructional league...
-let me tell you this vodoo, 70 games for a student including practice, weight training in the morning and going to class, then tutoring depending on the program and what year he is entering, and then practice again is plenty for a student athlete...thats not including homework and studying and then having to get back up in the morning at 5:30a to do it all over again....most kids in college are not going to play at the next level but most of them i hope understand that education is far more important than athletics...
in the minor leagues you do play more games and spring training does start a little later. as far as instructional league goes that all depends on the player and the coaches opinion...most dominincan and latin american players do go to instructional league to help them adjust. as far as comparing your statement....it was harder for me to concentrate on school and baseball as compared to just baseball in the minors....

better/more instructors in pro ball
-this is satire of course....sure they have more instructors because it a business....more money more options....on saying better, that is personal opinion...there are a lot of smart and knowledgable coaches out there in all ranks that are not in pro ball.

terrible attitudes
-first of all attitudes are all givin by the media...if you never met the person dont judge him by what you read and hear...there is an old saying when you are playing pro ball that states...."if it isnt true...then dont worry about it." players are human too, some players get big heads from fame and money but a true person doesnt change what he believes in...just remember dont judge a book by its cover.

high profile picks ask mike piazza, ryne sandberg, don mattingly, all the latin players...
-this is a great debate here...first of all mike piazza just like the boones have connections in pro ball...this helps out. all the other players you named such as sandberg and mattingly all came up in the 80's..the game has changed so much than and the competition has change so much. tell me when the last time recently or in the last 5-6 years you seen a 72 round draft pick get to the pros. latin players have differnt circumstances than kids in the states...

i have to get going but i would love to hear back....good luck with everything

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jonesin:
voodo

"hey i really respect your opinions that is what this board is for...i can tell you have a great knowledge of the game and that is wonderful"

Flattery will get you everywhere.

"i have one question for you....have you ever played competitive d1 or in the minors?"

Not that it has anything to do with the issue at hand but no I wasn't good enough to play D1 or Minors. I topped out in HS/Semi-Pro(Boston Park League)Summer ball. However, after 30 years in the Agent biz, I think I've seen enough to give credible answers.

"aluminum rockets in hand.....
- i totally agree with you on this one....they should get rid of alum bats in college....most kids who play competitve college ball do not use alum in the off season...if you play in just about any summer league whether its the cape cod to the alaskan league its all wood bat"

So AT LEAST 70% of your games will be played with the aluminum rocket launchers. You're making my case for me.

"let me tell you this vodoo, 70 games for a student including practice, weight training in the morning and going to class, then tutoring depending on the program and what year he is entering, and then practice again is plenty for a student athlete...thats not including homework and studying and then having to get back up in the morning at 5:30a to do it all over again"

You're making my case for me again. Pro ball allows you to focus on becoming the best player you can be instead of taking classes in "eligibilty 101". I went to one of the best D1 Baseball schools in the country, both of my roomates (2 of my first clients)& several friends played on the Baseball team & most all of them were there to play Baseball & to this day still haven't gotten their degree.

"most kids in college are not going to play at the next level but most of them i hope understand that education is far more important than athletics"

Why? The list of productive, contributing members of society with no college degree ranges from Bill Gates to to my Son's Assistant HS BB Coach. Life is what you make of it degree or no degree. This idyllic view of College life is BS. A degree opens many doors, not all doors. Besides, what you do once you get in those doors depends more on what you have inside your gut & your chest than what piece of paper hangs on your wall. I know scores of educated idiots & my father who went to school for 6 months in this country ate "College boys" alive.

"in the minor leagues you do play more games and spring training does start a little later. as far as instructional league goes that all depends on the player and the coaches opinion...most dominincan and latin american players do go to instructional league to help them adjust. as far as comparing your statement....it was harder for me to concentrate on school and baseball as compared to just baseball in the minors"

Again, making my case for me.

"they have more instructors because it a business....more money more options"

Don't know what I owe you for doing my work for me, hope it's not too much.

"on saying better, that is personal opinion...there are a lot of smart and knowledgable coaches out there in all ranks that are not in pro ball."

No, more Players in the Majors were coached by Pro Coaches than College coaches. Many college Coaches are great recruiters/salesmen but in reality HORRIBLE Baseball Coaches.

"terrible attitudes
-first of all attitudes are all givin by the media"

That's a BS cop-out & you know it. There are huge loads of jerks in Pro Ball. Glowing like neon,single minded no-brain idiots. I've met dozens of them first hand. I don't need the media to tell me about them.

"high profile picks ask mike piazza, ryne sandberg, don mattingly, all the latin players...
-this is a great debate here...first of all mike piazza just like the boones have connections in pro ball...this helps out. all the other players you named such as sandberg and mattingly all came up in the 80's..the game has changed so much than and the competition has change so much. tell me when the last time recently or in the last 5-6 years you seen a 72 round draft pick get to the pros."

Tom Gordon, Paul Quantrill, Jorge Posada, Kenny Lofton, Alan Embree, Keith Foulke, Derek Lowe, Mike Timlin, Doug Mirabelli, Kevin Millar. None of these players got mega bucks out of the draft, they're all in the Majors & that's just from 2 teams. Again, signing for big bucks helps, but hard work & ability count as well.

"latin players have differnt circumstances than kids in the states"

Yet almost none of them signed for big money or went to College.

If you want to be a teacher, Lawyer or chemical engineer go to College. If you aren't sure whether you're ready for a real job in the real world, go to college. If you're not mature enough to grow up & live on your own, go to College.

If you want to play Pro ball & are drafted by a team with a good track record of player development & they offer you a fair contract...SIGN. Your window of opportunity to play Pro ball is very brief. You can always go to College if you're motivated to learn.

voodo my man

lol you are very knowledgable on the game...of course if you are an agent, then you- out of everyone know more about what the business is like...lol...hey i think we have a lot of the same views on a lot of subjects and we have a lot of different views on a lot....im glad that you know about the game...lol...seriously im going to leave it at that...you are a great person..dont want to ruin anything...hey you might of been my agent lol....take care reply back if you want to talk some more...like your knowledge...hope to hear from ya...

p.s. not you bring up the past, but....if you didnt go to college would you have the opportunity to be a agent (lawyer)??? lol

jonesin...

We have had this debate before in another forum...comparing college players on the whole to pro players:

A GM was asked:
What pro level would you say Division I college baseball is equivalent to?

GM(Shakes his head) It’s not even close between college and the pros. Not any level. We can take our***** club, play the best college team in baseball and beat them probably seven out of ten times. It’s a whole different environment; anyone involved in player development will tell you that when they get the college player, he’s a long way from being finished.

Just an interesting tidbit on this very rainy afternoon......

That is why they call it the pros