Dream Schools???

Ok, so this does have the potential to be a hot button post.  but I think you've framed it well.  I can speak from my 2014 grad's perspective.  he was a football player, his dream school for football, when he was a HS sophomore, was a D1 high academic.  He, and I, thought that was a possibility- after all, he started both ways as a sophomore on a quad A team in western PA- pretty decent football around here.   We didn't know what we didn't know!

  Summer between is sophomore and junior years we went to a couple of D1 camps,   it became obvious to me, very quickly, that d1 was not going to be an option.  He and I had a heart to heart talk.    I was surprised when he agreed with me, that D1 football was probably not going to happen -not much call for a 6-1 250 lb offensive lineman in D1.     So his dream schools changed.  He leveraged football and was accepted to Johns Hopkins-  it has worked out perfectly for him. 

If you asked him at the time he committed he'd have told you he committed to his dream school.  But - to your point- it did not start out that way. 

PGStaff,

I hear what you are saying.  Frankly, my opinion is that many young men aren't aware of all their options and they are only familiar with name brand, media-darling D1 schools as a starting point.   I live in the center of the ACC baseball universe .....every kid playing travel ball wants to play for an ACC school....at first.   They think that starting point is their dream school because I think some (not all) lack the maturity to know or experience any different.   They want to play for a college team that is on TV becasue that is cool and sexy....I get it...I was 16 years old too.   I think once young men have the opportunity to see many options and understand this is a life decision, then some of their choices change.  Parents are a HUGE part of that process.  I know many young men who have ended up at their dream schools because they've told me exactly that.  I think everybody starts their search at the same point but everybody ends up at a different place as they are exposed to various options and reality sets in.   As always, JMO.

And on the flip side of that coin... my son is considering giving up baseball to keep the dream of attending his "dream school" alive.  His point being that if he is going to take on debt with student loans, he wants it to at least be for going to a school where he feels completely invested... and where he chooses his dream major, as well.  He has a good head on his shoulders and doesn't take this decision lightly.  We've done something right along the road.  Best wishes to all those 2017s making similar choices!

I'm not sure how many kids KNOW what their dream school is when they start out. My daughter (not an athlete) REFUSED to visit Iowa State through more than a year of college visits. I, on the other hand, could really see her there. Finally, just before senior year, I drug her up there. We had to go in secret cause she didn't want to get anyone's hopes up that she would go there

On the way home, I asked what she thought. Very quietly, she said, "I liked it more than I thought I would. I actually liked it a lot."

It became her dream school. Now in her second year and she loves it as much as she did on the first visit.

Now my son is a 2018 who wants to play college baseball. We spent last summer and early fall going to camps and visiting various size schools just to open his eyes to his options. Planned on one D1, one D2, one D3. Ended up with five D1s as he realized he liked the amenities of D1, probably has the skill to play lower-level D1, but doesn't love the HUGE D1s. Now he knows what all those campuses feel like, the pluses and minuses at each level.

He hasn't found his dream school yet but he does have a good idea of what matters to him in a college, both on the baseball field and the classroom, and what questions he needs to ask to see if a specific school measures up.

His favorite right now is a small D1 in a nearby state. He may not end up there, but my guess is he will be at a place very much like that one. MY dream is that he find a place he loves as much as his sister loves ISU.

Dreams are great, but they are dreams. Sometimes those wispy dream clouds get in the way of what's real and solid.

Maybe on the PG player profiles page, in addition to the "Schools Interested In," there should also be a "Dream School," category with room for just (1) school to be posted?  (Joke.  Not serious about this idea, intended in jest at the OP)

Fact is, it takes a lot of maturity for a 15-year old, AND his dad, to see what pond he should  be realistically fishing in for a variety of reasons; academic, financial, baseball skill set, etc.   

So few can actually aim high and hit high.  I'd guess many of these kids, who say their dream schools are the Stanfords, Vandys, etc.,  know they will not be going there.  They do have that much of a clue, as do their dads.  But for many it's the refusal to close that door on themselves willingly.  For many it's a childhood dream "door" that they will only allow to be closed by the process, a coach, or some other higher power.   The "Aiming high" strategy is usually what got most of these ball players to where they are now anyway.  If it ain't broke why fix it?  

Aiming high, may lead to some unrealistic aspirations but who doesn't do that at 15 or 16?  I'd recommend every kid to aim high at that age.  It's the best time to do it!  It's only us jaded and beaten down 40-somethings who "get real" and actually read the writing on the wall finally, after only "seeing" the writing for most of our youth.  

But clearly PG,  your question is, "Why don't 15 year olds dream of playing ball at MIT?  Or UNC-Pembroke?"  

When you were 15, did you ever "dream" of owning a Forest Green Chevy Minivan?  My point is there has to be a maturation process, and there is fortunately, for a kid to work through where they finally "get it."  That there's only so much one can control in this life.  That the blessing of simply having a minivan, or a car, any car is a blessing, and you are lucky to have that transportation at your fingertips.  So too with going to college and possibly playing baseball in college, somewhere.  ANYWHERE.  It's a blessing.  

Most 15 year olds don't get that when they answer the, "So, what's your dream school" question.  But that's the beauty of the baseball recruitment campaign.  Yes CAMPAIGN.  It is like a war.  And by the end you learn a lot; about yourself as a person and as a ball player.   And suddenly by 18 you've been humbled, and you've hopefully learned a thing or two about yourself, and about this great game of baseball.  And that it is an honor and a privilege to still be playing it ANYWHERE between the ages of 18-22.  

The smartest ones learn by 18 that what's important may not be the "dream school," but more importantly  The Dream.  The dream of playing ball for as long as possible until someone, or something finally says....................."It's time."  

You're right PG.  Dream schools are reserved for top notch D1 programs that are quite often in a kid's state or region.  Most guy's PG profiles have a listing of major D1s in the "Schools Interested In" section.  Even if the kid is a 5'6" 130 lb senior.    Later some schools will come along that are a fit, and one may start to become a preferred option, and quite well liked.  But the Vandy, Florida, LSU, Arizona, USC, UCLA, Clemson's, et. al., are still the dreams.

A major movie actress or model might be a guy's dream girl.  But then a girl more his speed comes along and a guy gets all dreamy.  Same thing with college baseball.   Who dreams of being less than the best?

What does any 15-16 year old kid know about college?
Whose dream is it anyway? The kids or mom and dads?

Go where the coach likes you.
Go where you feel comfortable.
Go where you can afford.

My son didn't have a dream school..well, i guess Texas would have been the closest thing to that. He wanted to play Power 5 baseball and be in the south. He ended up where he felt most comfortable and found a major that suited him there. Kudos to the kids that have the dream schools and get there!

My 2017's story is pretty much a baseball version of PABASEBALL's. He's waiting on an ED from a very selective  D3. Last week the coach sent him a team gear order form, and he's been smiling ever since. He has bought into the "Next 40 years not the next 4 years" mantra I've been feeding him, and is also taking note of all the D1 transfers, dropdowns, washouts, and benchwarmers he hears about.  So at this point, yeah, he truly believes that his academic D3 is his dream. 

We were talking about the process the other day and he said that he's totally happy with how things have worked out, and that the only thing he wishes he had done differently would be to have realized earlier that he had to put on weight, because that may have earned him more Ivy interest.  He's already nearly 20 lbs bigger than the kid who committed.

OP rings true for our experience. 

Original dream schools, that were actually called "dream schools": High academic D1s: Stanford, Ivy.

Then we woke up. 

Next Dream schools, though not called dream schools: High academic D3. Several options there and his final choice, while not a dream school in the original sense, has become a choice he's excited about. 

PGStaff posted:

For over 20 years we have been asking kids which colleges they are most interested in.  In almost every case a Division I college is listed first, followed by other DI colleges.  I can only assume that those colleges listed are in fact that players dream schools. 

Jerry, I think you underestimate how much kids today know about college baseball. I doubt you'll see many of their actual dream schools on the "interested in" list. My son's dream school was UNC when he was younger. He attended their camp after 9th grade and quickly understood that it would be a long-shot. The first time he added "interested in" schools to his profile, they were mid-major D1s. He plays D3 now. I think for most kids, the "interested in" is the absolute highest level that they think is realistic. And like you say, that list changes as kids figure out where they can actually play.

CmassRHPDad posted:

What does any 15-16 year old kid know about college?
Whose dream is it anyway? The kids or mom and dads?

Go where the coach likes you.
Go where you feel comfortable.
Go where you can afford.

I think some kids have dream schools and it's usually (not always) where dad or mom or both attended school. 

I grew up in SC and almost everyone was either a USC or Clemson fan. My son, similar to Shoveit's, doesn't have a dream school. Right now he'd like to play in the SEC or ACC and the warmer the climate, the better. His desires could change next week or next year because he just turned 15. 

On the other hand, he has a gazillion buddies who grew up UGA fans and that would qualify as their dream school. 

Dream school = If you could play ball at any school, what would it be?

After more thought, I think you can really nail down the "Dream vs Realistic Differential" to the ages of 14-15.5.  At these ages the kid should be dreaming BIG.  Aim high for sure.  But by 16 and 17, any baseball player with a clue is getting a clue by 16, 17 at latest.  If you are 16 or 17 and Stanford or Vandy is still not returning your calls?  And you still don't get it?  You are an outlier.  I truthfully never met a kid in my son's showcase organization who was like that. 

Sadly however I coach many HS kids who don't do the showcase grind and who've never tested themselves against the best outside of their state, much less their county, and they have no clue what they are up against.  Dream away!  These often tend to be the 40 year olds who hang around the ball park decades later talking about what could have been?  That they could of played college ball if they only had "the chance."

The travel ball and showcase grind has a way of humbling and making a kid very aware of what his dream school should be due to playing against better players.  My son was humbled very early on due to the showcase world.  That was a great benefit of showcasing early and often.  Stop watches do not lie, nor do coaches who say, "If your phone doesn't ring?  It's me!"

  At 14 and 15,  dream away!   You should at that age.  But if you are on the showcase circuit and seeing teammates commit to the places you dream of, and your phone is not ringing, that may actually be a blessing if you take note.

The baseball showcase grind, if done right, will show you EXACTLY where you belong, IF.........if you listen to what it's saying.  Some kids, and their parents, don't listen to what the market is telling them though. 

That must be very frustrating for the 17-18 year old who is still befuddled why dream school does not return  his calls. 

My 2017 son realized by age 16 or so that no matter how good a 5'10", 170 lb lefty hitting catcher he was, he was not going to play D1. So he set his heart on a top D3 school in-state where several former team mates are now as freshmen (= D3 dream school). Unfortunately, the camp was at the end a mega hot and humid week of working outside all day as a sports counselor (so minimal pre-camp prep too). He was still wiped out the day of the camp and did not stand out.

Two months later he went to a camp of the other top D3 and was well-rested, practiced, and raring to go. He had an outstanding camp and stood out as the best of 7 catchers. The HC was extremely, vocally throughout the camp interested in taking recruiting to the next level (my son's academics helped I expect). But he was not interested in attending that very small school, no matter how great the baseball program is. His new dream is getting an ED acceptance at my Alma Mater Virginia Tech and trying to play club baseball.

If MIT, Cal Tech or some of the other high academic DIII's played on national TV, kids would be dreaming of going there.  I think when my son originally put his list of potential's together, 6 of them were in the CWS that year.  Kids dream of playing in the CWS, playing on TV or playing in front of 10,000 people.  

My guess is that when players create their original PG profile, they've done so before they ever showcased or played in any type of PG event.  2nd guess is that most profiles are created early on in HS when dreams are still really big. 

I think of several sayings with this topic...

".. if you chase perfection, you can catch excellence."

 "Aim high, you might just hit it."

“It may be that those who do most, dream most.”

“To accomplish great things, we must not only act, but also dream; not only plan, but also believe.”

Of course all young baseball players dream big and have early aspirations of playing in the bigs and playing at a high profile big time college program.  Of course we all have big dreams with our lives with who we want to be, where we want to go, etc.  As we travel the path, we start to learn more and more about ourselves and what our true paths should be, what our strengths and weaknesses are, what our genuine or fleeting interests are.  We adjust our dreams as we go.  And that is fine.  As long as we still have them and keep shooting for them.  Chasing the dream serves many purposes.  

Our early versions of baseball dreams usually come about with zero knowledge of college baseball below the D1 level and with very little thought to the importance of choosing a college for a specific career path.  Of course that dream is likely to change.  It just depends on which point in time the question is asked.

I think one of the great things about this site is that it helps parents and young players learn more about themselves more quickly and make adjustments to those dreams in time to still shoot for them.

fenwaysouth posted:

PGStaff,

I hear what you are saying.  Frankly, my opinion is that many young men aren't aware of all their options and they are only familiar with name brand, media-darling D1 schools as a starting point.   I live in the center of the ACC baseball universe .....every kid playing travel ball wants to play for an ACC school....at first.   They think that starting point is their dream school because I think some (not all) lack the maturity to know or experience any different.   They want to play for a college team that is on TV becasue that is cool and sexy....I get it...I was 16 years old too.   I think once young men have the opportunity to see many options and understand this is a life decision, then some of their choices change.  Parents are a HUGE part of that process.  I know many young men who have ended up at their dream schools because they've told me exactly that.  I think everybody starts their search at the same point but everybody ends up at a different place as they are exposed to various options and reality sets in.   As always, JMO.

I agree with fenwaysouth that a very large majority of them gravitate to the D1s that they see most in the media ("name brands').   This was the case for my 2010 when he was entering HS.

When my 2010 was in Jr High, he was very adamant about getting to a D1, because that's what he heard most about from his friend in travel ball.  But he really had no idea the scope of what might be included in D1s or which schools were D2 or D3s.   His mother and I were good with that at that point as weren't looking that far ahead yet.  But our 2010 was determined and he worked very hard on his academics starting in Jr. High.

As he entered high school, he not only wanted a D1 school, but also wanted one far away to put some space between him and his parents (living in the SF Bay Area at the time).  There were a few D1 schools very close and he was sure he didn't want to be that close to parents.  He in fact was considering big name schools in the east and south, but the one school he named as his dream school was Oregon State.  And really, the only reason for that was because he new that OSU had won two consecutive college world series.  So, the summer after his sophomore year we signed him up of one of their summer camps making the trip combined that with family visits since we often make trips up that way to visit a lot of family.  Well, he liked the coach and and the coach seemed very interested in him, but . . .  he didn't like the campus or it's location and decided it's not the "Dream School" he imagined.  And now, we seriously began discussing just what he really wanted to get out of college in terms of academics and baseball.

After some discussions, he finally decided his "Dream School" isn't really one that would be outside of California and preferably within the Pac10 of the time.  It seemed at the time that his goal for a D1 school was very possible, but I was thinking in terms of the lower level D1s.    My 2010 was working very hard on his academics as well as his baseball in at a college prep HS and upon starting his junior year he began to have contacts from quite a few schools AND from the Pac10 schools.  When he started to get such interest from the Pac10 schools, it was then he decided which school was his Dream School.  But he never heard from that dream school during his Jr. year even though he sent letters to the coach filled out question-air from the school's on line site.  At this time he was pretty aware of non-D1 schools and they simply were on no interests to him as he was getting strong interest from good D1 schools, but not word from his Dream School.

Then came Area Code games in August and we planned an extended road trip for the Area Code games and had appointments with 8 schools to view the campuses and talk with the HCs (4 before the games started and 4 afterwards), which all helped him be certain this time that his Dream School  was what he really wanted.  His Area Code team happened to have a couple practice games at his Dream School the weekend before the Area Code games started.  The HC from the school liked what he saw from my 2010 in those practice games and immediately asked us to come into his office to talk.  Well, an offer was made and it was a pretty good one, so it didn't take long to accept before we left for the Area Code games.  

So . . . in our case, D2 and D3 schools just were never a consideration and my 2010 was so very lucky (a lot thanks to baseball) to get into his Dream School that's very difficult to get into and turned down the Dream School of his parents.  

#1 Assistant Coach posted:

After more thought, I think you can really nail down the "Dream vs Realistic Differential" to the ages of 14-15.5.  At these ages the kid should be dreaming BIG.  Aim high for sure.  But by 16 and 17, any baseball player with a clue is getting a clue by 16, 17 at latest.  If you are 16 or 17 and Stanford or Vandy is still not returning your calls?  And you still don't get it?  You are an outlier.  I truthfully never met a kid in my son's showcase organization who was like that. 

Sadly however I coach many HS kids who don't do the showcase grind and who've never tested themselves against the best outside of their county, much less their state, and they have no clue what they are up against.  Dream away!  These often tend to be the 40 year olds who hang around the ball park decades later talking about what could have been?  That they could of played college ball if they only had "the chance."

The travel ball and showcase grind has a way of humbling and making a kid very aware of what his dream school should be due to playing against better players.  My son was humbled very early on due to the showcase world.  That was a great benefit of showcasing early and often.  Stop watches do not lie, nor do coaches who say, "If your phone doesn't ring?  It's me!"

  At 14 and 15,  dream away!   You should at that age.  But if you are on the showcase circuit and seeing teammates commit to the places you dream of, and your phone is not ringing, that may actually be a blessing if you take note.

The baseball showcase grind, if done right, will show you EXACTLY where you belong, IF.........if you listen to what it's saying.  Some kids, and their parents, don't listen to what the market is telling them though. 

That must be very frustrating for a 17-18 year old who is still befuddled why dream school does not return their calls. 

+1

• If a kid is smart he will say where he's committed to play (regardless of level) is his dream school. If nothing else it just became his dream come true.

It's probably pretty easy to figure out what my son's "dream school" would have been lol.  Heck, he goes to every home football game (and some away games) with his sister who is a senior there.  Even though it was his dream school, it was really never a consideration for baseball....he just wanted to play D1 somewhere fairly close to home and see if he could compete at that level.  Funny thing is, we took a visit to the school he ended up at....we got in the car after and he said "if they offer, I'm going here".  It was his first real visit (coaches, tour, etc)....they offered 2 days later and he accepted without even checking out a couple other schools who were still looking at him.  He loves the school and is having fun playing baseball so I guess it all worked out

Link to a post from almost 3 years ago when I asked asked a similar dream school question:  http://community.hsbaseballweb...d-in-only-one-school.

I hope the wisdom that was shared with me might help others who have young players wondering.

Interesting topic. We always thought that baseball would open the admission doors to 2017's dream school(s)-- schools impossible to get into without that hook. Now as the admissions/recruiting story continues to play out, it looks more like the tail is wagging the dog and his academics will actually determine where he gets in, with the baseball a consideration afterwards.  

I'm thinking the term "Dream School" depends on your actual dream.

For some this may be a diploma with word Yale stamped on it.  For others it could be where they have been told they will get to play baseball for 4 years.  Others it may be where a high percentage of players are drafted in their third year.

A 14 year old may be dreaming of the draft, a 17 year old may be dreaming of the name on his diploma that will almost ensure a lucrative career.  Dreams change.

As a heavily recruited HS football player my dream was to go big time D1 and major in football.  Ultimately my parents convinced me that the nearby Ivy was a better long term solution and that is the path that I took.  Now that I am 30 years into that 40 year decision I am grateful that I didn't get my way.

I have been hesitant to join this...  I think most kids have a dream school and many choose not to talk about it. I also agree there is a lot of revisionist history when people say they went to their 'dream' school. Or perhaps it's more like rationalization. Or generalization. My son has a very clear dream school. It is of course a big time baseball school. The odds of him being on that 35 man roster someday are roughly the same as his odds of being an astronaut. But we have discussed options at every level from Big D1 to D3. So let's just say he plays someday at Wisconsin Whitewater a national powerhouse in D3. Can we accurately and honestly say it was his dream school?  Yes and no. Clearly as the spirit of the OP suggests his true dream is to play at the power 5 school I would be embarrassed to mention - but keep in mind it's a dream and it helps motivate him and hopefully thereby makes him a better player even though he will very likely never get to that level. So if when the dust settles he is a high D3 type talent and he plays at UWW is it a dream come true?  Yes I guess it is given the level his talent allows. So technically most of these people saying it was their dream school are lying. But when you look at it like the scenario I broke down I think it is ok to say it's a dream school after the fact. And really shouldn't we want the kid going into his new digs with that kind of positive attitude?

The OP has  hit on something really important here.  Great OP, and great question.  Here's another thought I've had:

Wife and I live near the coast in the SE.  One year ago, we purchased a home in the 2nd row of homes off the beach.  When I sit on my porch in my rocking chair, in January, with no leaves on the trees, and crane my neck just right, I can just barely see a little piece of the ocean.  That's my "water view," on a good day in January.  Not exactly the view a young couple dreams of when newlyweds thinking about what their "dream house" by the water twenty years later would be like.  Of course our dream house back in those days was a house ON the water.  We weren't dreaming of a "2nd row house," with a January sliver view of the water.  

But you know what?  I love our little house with it's sliver of a water view in January when I crane my neck just right.  It's what we could afford.   It's the one that fell in our lap.  Good luck put it there.  No way in this green earth could we ever afford one of the "First Row" homes on the water that we stare at while sitting on our porch.  But understand, I do not rock in my chair envious, thinking what could have been, or that somewhere along the way we were "robbed" of the opportunity for one of those waterfront homes.  That we "deserved" a waterfront home.  No.  I am simply grateful that through our hard work and providence  I can at least smell the salt air everyday, and walk a few hundred feet to the public beach and  enjoy the ocean.  

I know this is a stretch from the OP about dream schools but I've been thinking a lot about it.  I'll say it again, it is the very 3 or 4 year grind that is travel and showcase baseball that teaches our sons this valuable lesson.  That no one in this life, owes you anything.  That, as my varsity coach tells his players, "Just because you work hard, does not mean you deserve something."  But working hard toward a goal, for a prolonged period of time, teaches a young man humility and gratitude.  If he does not end the journey possessing those two virtues then he didn't work hard enough.

Let's just say I am looking forward to January when I will put on my jacket and rock in my chair on the front porch and enjoy my sliver of a water view; grateful and contented. 

Twoboys posted:

Interesting topic. We always thought that baseball would open the admission doors to 2017's dream school(s)-- schools impossible to get into without that hook. Now as the admissions/recruiting story continues to play out, it looks more like the tail is wagging the dog and his academics will actually determine where he gets in, with the baseball a consideration afterwards.  

Yes exactly!  Our situation, as well.  I will say my son is so much more mature than his calendar age.  He was the kid at 3 who knocked something over and got upset because "accidents don't happen to me"... and at 5 who wanted to build weaponry for the US Army. He doesn't want a party school and he looks down on his peers who make poor decisions day in and day out.  He has some D3 schools interested in him but at $60k/year (and with a very good chance he would qualify for $120k in 4 years of academic aid based on his test scores), he does not want the financial burden of student loans just to play baseball at a school that he doesn't feel has his best option for a major or post college employment.  He's a very pragmatic and reasonable soul who just watched his peer give up baseball at a top Ivy League in order to focus on academics.  I could see my son doing the same.  So academics will determine the path and then baseball a consideration afterwards, as well.  Good luck to you!

Interesting topic.  I think it is fair for a young man to say he got into his dream school after finding out what they thought was their dream school was not a good fit for one reason or another.  Some of these distinctions are about information acquired after participating in the recruiting process that cannot be known before hand.

That said, we never heard of showcases when my son was in high school.  All we knew was he wanted desperately to play in college and the only schools we knew about were those who had seen him play in the summer and/or in high school and made an inquiry with his coach.  For the longest time, it seemed my son's only options were local Ohio D3 schools although they were at the very top of the D3 food chain.  Neither of us felt those were dream schools but we would have been happy if that is where he ended up. 

One D1 school made a feeble inquiry with my son's high school coach during the summer of his junior year rising into his senior year.  When we looked that team up (we had never heard of them), they immediately became the dream school.  My son attended two of their camps and finally received a small offer from them in November of his senior year.  We were both ecstatic as his aspirations were achieved.  Little did we know that getting recruited was the easy part.

PG it's kind of funny but if I looked at almost every questionnaire I ever helped a kid fill out they looked like: UNC, South Carolina, ECU, NC State, UVA.

If the questionnaire was from a local Juco to a local D2 they would list their colleges of choice almost to a T like above. My son was no different. He ended up at his dream school. Later when he transferred that became his dream school. Now he coaches at his new dream school. Lol

I think things have changed a bit. There are more smaller and local schools reaching out to HS players these days at least in my area. With the explosion of the showcase teams that have more players these schools would be interested in being seen when these schools can see them. Back when I first started coaching showcase there were only 2 showcase programs in NC that traveled around the state and region getting exposure. These teams were comprised some of the best players in the state without a doubt.

Now these kids who otherwise would not be contacted or have college programs show interest in them are being "recruited" or contacted by these smaller schools. This has and can lead to kids making these programs their dream school. If a college coach from a smaller school gets out there and works hard he can cultivate relationships and make his program one of their dream schools. And sometimes this can lead to getting a kid they would have never been able to get.

My son has had tremendous success in the last couple of years in Florida working prospect camps and attending showcase events. Sometimes the parents really like a coach that shows interest and is a likeable guy especially when he is the first guy to show some love. And it surely doesn't hurt with the players either. For me the dream school can be the dream coach instead.

You never forget the guy that showed you love before anyone else did. Sometimes you don't get them the first time around but they come back home later. Sometimes they meet their dream school coach and he just doesn't measure up to that "other" guy and that becomes your dream school. Things have changed and some things have not.

My 2018 had a "dream school" his Freshman year . Now his JR year the defiunition of dream school has changed significantly. He no longer wants the burden of student loans just to sya he was a player at a big Power 5 school. He is now looking more 40 years than 4 years. Smart kid. He still holds out for the hope of playing in the Majors but he is more realistic now. He is maturing rather nicely.    "If you are going to go into debt, why not get the biggest return out of your investment?" He says. 

Now he dreams of being at a school that really wants him and will put him in the best position for the rest of his life. He would have never thought of playing in the North or Midwest. Now it looks like he will most definitely be playing in cold weather. But he will not compromise and play south for the sake of playing ( or sitting the bench ) in warm weather when he worked hard to get good grades  in high school. He really wants to play at the best academic school possible that will allow him to actually play baseball and study his major.

My boy is growing up too darn fast! 

When I was a kid, there was a girl I dreamed I'd someday marry.  She frequented the cover of SI in a swimsuit and I had her poster on my wall.

If asked today if I married my dream girl, the answer is yes.  Clearly, that girl and the woman I married are not the same person. . . . .  

As most people know we are not a recruiting service.  Yet, we are deeply involved with recruiting working closely with both recruiters and players.

Understanding the importance and advantages of graduating from a highly regarded academic college,  our emphasis is on baseball.  Outstanding students don't need baseball or sports to get a great education.  Sure it can help a little with admissions, but only a small number of Ivy League students play baseball.

We concentrate on baseball ability.  Those that are outstanding students and players have many choices.  Those that aren't the best students, but have outstanding baseball talent also have many choices.  That said, not everyone has the same choices.

A baseball player's dream school is likely to be a national DI powerhouse baseball school.  A great student's dream school is likely to be an Ivy League school.  Those near the top in the classroom and on the field have dream schools like Stanford.

After reading several posts and looking at things a bit differently, maybe this might be a good way to go about finding a dream school.  

List your dream school or schools at the highest level no matter how much of a long shot it might be.  Call it your DI dream school list!  Then make a list of your DII, DIII, NAIA, Juco dream schools. You can base the lists on whatever is most important to you, baseball, academics, life style, cost, location, etc.  In the end your abilities will send you in the right direction.

Maybe by doing the above, you might be more likely to actually end up at your dream school.  Just remember this... Many don't find happiness at their dream school.  Sometimes dreams turn into nightmares!  

PGStaff posted:

... maybe this might be a good way to go about finding a dream school.  

List your dream school or schools at the highest level no matter how much of a long shot it might be.  Call it your DI dream school list!  Then make a list of your DII, DIII, NAIA, Juco dream schools. You can base the lists on whatever is most important to you, baseball, academics, life style, cost, location, etc.  In the end your abilities will send you in the right direction.

Maybe by doing the above, you might be more likely to actually end up at your dream school.  Just remember this... Many don't find happiness at their dream school. ...

I think that is actually a GREAT idea for how to approach the process for most players (those who are not sure D1 prospects).

Son ended up doing this eventually (although not intentionally) but having this as a definitive exercise earlier on would probably have brought about more enlightenment to the various levels and put him on track to the right target schools sooner.

Nuke83 posted:

When I was a kid, there was a girl I dreamed I'd someday marry.  She frequented the cover of SI in a swimsuit and I had her poster on my wall.

If asked today if I married my dream girl, the answer is yes.  Clearly, that girl and the woman I married are not the same person. . . . .  

I think I got the other one, sorry dude.

I must be missing something...  A player would not want to go to a top DI program with a baseball scholarship, an academic scholarship, and whatever other aid might be available?  Because he doesn't want to be burdened later on with debt?

So a better option is to go to a small private academic school?  

I'm far from an expert when it comes to money, but most of the top small academic colleges I know of are extremely expensive.  I know kids that are getting very large academic scholarships, institutional grants, etc., and they still are paying much more than 100% of the cost of the DI college, let alone those with DI scholarships.

I can see a lot of good reasons why someone might choose a DIII academic school over a state DI.  However, in most cases, being less expensive wouldn't be one of the reasons.  Then again for some it actually can be less expensive and then it might be a very good reason.

Anyway, sure is a lot to think about.  We seem to have a lot more people contributing here these days that are deeply involved in academic DIII colleges.  Nothing wrong with that, it makes sense that parents are looking for the best education possible and their kids future.  I get it, but I have baseball at a much higher place than most people.  I like to see kids chase their baseball dreams and still get a quality education.  And for all those that rightfully place more importance on the degree, who can ever argue with that?   But when I read that son would rather quit baseball and concentrate on academics... I first think, that might be a great and wise decision.  Then I think, I'm reading this on the hsBASEBALLweb.  Just seems like baseball should be very important here.

Once again, I am very familiar with small college baseball and I love it.  There are DIII baseball programs that really standout in most every way, including talent.  They get kids that are there to play high level baseball.  Some are also highly regarded academic schools.  And even with all of that, most every player at those colleges, would have signed with a top DI if things would have worked out.

PGStaff posted:

 There are DIII baseball programs that really standout in most every way, including talent.  They get kids that are there to play high level baseball.  Some are also highly regarded academic schools.  And even with all of that, most every player at those colleges, would have signed with a top DI if things would have worked out.

Fair enough, but I don't think top D1's compete against D3's very often. What if the choice was between a top 20 academic D3 that offered 60% of cost of attendance in aid vs a middling private academic D1 in a bottom-rung league with a 25% offer that was guaranteed for one year only?  Would every player in that situation sign with the D1?

Wow, what a great thread!

Yes, for my 15-year-old, it is a combination of location and baseball, with a fair dose of academics thrown in: UCLA. As Teaching Elder noted "Dream schools are reserved for top notch D1 programs that are quite often in a kid's state or region." And UCLA would be it using hshuler's definition of "If you could play ball at any school, what would it be?"

But if you ask my son generally where he wants to go to college -- his grandparents asked him this very question on Thanksgiving -- he'll say "wherever I can play baseball." To RJM's point, that would become his dream school.

Am I allowed to have a dream school for my kid? (I know, his dream, not mine) For me, it would be my alma mater . . . 

PG - you are singing to the choir with me so I don't think you are missing anything.  I've never understood hanging around a baseball site like this and getting advice like "Pick a school as if baseball were not involved."  Should a music student pick Julliard as if music were not involved? - they might not end up being the next Kenny G you know...

Seriously, some here place more priority on academics and no one here can say they are wrong in that kind of thinking.  This can include the prestige associated with the academic reputation of the school which can explain why people feel justified paying more money at the private/name academic school even if they would have gotten more at the state D1 school.  Obviously, for some, money is not a consideration as they can afford whatever school their kids choose. 

On the other hand, if baseball is important, there are many ways to fulfill both academic goals and baseball goals with some creative planning.   

Interesting discussion.  Folks definitely have a tendency to rationalize their situation after the fact such that, for example, the DII or DIII baseball program they end up at is the dream school.  

My son is a freshman at a high academic DIII with a good baseball program which by current indications is an excellent situation for him all around -- i.e., he is a very happy camper.

Yet, if we are being honest, had a much lesser academic PAC 12 school called for baseball, he would have jumped at it (maybe to his ultimate baseball and/or career detriment).  I don't think he's different from the vast majority (but sure, not all) of HS baseball players in this regard.  No big secret here.