Dream Schools???

ClevelandDad posted:

PG - you are singing to the choir with me so I don't think you are missing anything.  I've never understood hanging around a baseball site like this and getting advice like "Pick a school as if baseball were not involved."  Should a music student pick Julliard as if music were not involved? - they might not end up being the next Kenny G you know...

Seriously, some here place more priority on academics and no one here can say they are wrong in that kind of thinking.  This can include the prestige associated with the academic reputation of the school which can explain why people feel justified paying more money at the private/name academic school even if they would have gotten more at the state D1 school.  Obviously, for some, money is not a consideration as they can afford whatever school their kids choose. 

On the other hand, if baseball is important, there are many ways to fulfill both academic goals and baseball goals with some creative planning.   

I imagine there is a large percentage of the 16u baseball population that is shocked when their D1 dream school doesn't call because they are not in fact D1 talent. 

My son will be 16 when he starts 12th grade, if he is in that boat I sincerely hope he follows the "Pick a school as if baseball were not involved" mantra.

You may get into the dream school, but you are probably not gonna graduate from it!

Based on NCAA data, here are the PAC12 baseball team graduation rate (for students entering 2009). FGR is Federal Graduation Rate; GSR is Graduate Success Rate, which take into account "transfer in good standing", so always higher than FGR. If your dream school is Arizona or UCLA or even Cal and Washington, there's a good chance you won't graduate from it.

Cohort Year	Institution	Conference	Sport	State	GSR	FGR	GSR Rpt	FGR Rpt
2009	Arizona State University	Pac-12 Conference	Baseball	AZ	89	24
2009	University of Arizona	Pac-12 Conference	Baseball	AZ	33	10
2009	University of California, Berkeley	Pac-12 Conference	Baseball	CA	68	42
2009	University of California, Los Angeles	Pac-12 Conference	Baseball	CA	46	36
2009	Oregon State University	Pac-12 Conference	Baseball	OR	65	22
2009	University of Oregon	Pac-12 Conference	Baseball	OR	77	57
2009	University of Southern California	Pac-12 Conference	Baseball	CA	88	62
2009	Stanford University	Pac-12 Conference	Baseball	CA	96	86
2009	University of Utah	Pac-12 Conference	Baseball	UT	87	71
2009	Washington State University	Pac-12 Conference	Baseball	WA	92	49
2009	University of Washington	Pac-12 Conference	Baseball	WA	61	37

PGStaff posted:

......................................

Anyway, sure is a lot to think about.  We seem to have a lot more people contributing here these days that are deeply involved in academic DIII colleges.  Nothing wrong with that, it makes sense that parents are looking for the best education possible and their kids future.  I get it, but I have baseball at a much higher place than most people.  I like to see kids chase their baseball dreams and still get a quality education.  And for all those that rightfully place more importance on the degree, who can ever argue with that?   But when I read that son would rather quit baseball and concentrate on academics... I first think, that might be a great and wise decision.  Then I think, I'm reading this on the hsBASEBALLweb.  Just seems like baseball should be very important here.

PGStaff - It sure does seem like our HSBBWeb demographic has changed to more academic D3 colleges, or maybe those folks have become more vocal over time.  I think most people (on this website) still have baseball in a high place including D3 players.  D3s athletes and their parents have more flexibility and choice today than their D1/D2 counterparts and they like that.  Although, my oldest son did not got to a D3, he went to a D1 that acts more like a D3.  It gave him a lot of flexibility, and that is a major reason  he selected it.  Certainly academics were at the top of the list.  He insists (to this day) baseball was not high on his list, but I know better.  Nobody plays 4 years of college baseball at any level without it being a priority in their life.  

I totally understand the comment that their son would rather give up baseball and concentrate on academics.  My middle and younger sons did not pursue D3 offers because they wanted to focus on academics.  Baseball was extremely important to both of them in high school, but I think they realized it was too much of a commitment based on other things in their lives (ROTC-youngest son) and an extremely competitive major (middle son).  I totally get it, and they made the right decision for them.  If a young man has the maturity to understand their limitations and priorities (which may not include baseball) then it is probably best they don't play baseball.  They came to that conclusion on their own.  My read on it is that they didn't LOVE the game as much as they thought they did.  Clearly, my oldest son did.  JMO.

pabaseballdad posted:

Ok, so this does have the potential to be a hot button post.  but I think you've framed it well.  I can speak from my 2014 grad's perspective.  he was a football player, his dream school for football, when he was a HS sophomore, was a D1 high academic.  He, and I, thought that was a possibility- after all, he started both ways as a sophomore on a quad A team in western PA- pretty decent football around here.   We didn't know what we didn't know!

  Summer between is sophomore and junior years we went to a couple of D1 camps,   it became obvious to me, very quickly, that d1 was not going to be an option.  He and I had a heart to heart talk.    I was surprised when he agreed with me, that D1 football was probably not going to happen -not much call for a 6-1 250 lb offensive lineman in D1.     So his dream schools changed.  He leveraged football and was accepted to Johns Hopkins-  it has worked out perfectly for him. 

If you asked him at the time he committed he'd have told you he committed to his dream school.  But - to your point- it did not start out that way. 

the other side of the coin-   my 2017 is the complete opposite situation.  His dream was to play high level baseball in the south- we are from western pa.  It sucks playing baseball in Western pa until April at the earliest.  he had offers from power 5 schools in our area.  He's not an academic by any stretch of the imagination.    He ended up committing Coastal Carolina in the summer before his junior year.     He did not choose coastal for the academics, he chose it for the baseball.  I'm fine with that.  if something happens, and baseball does not work out at Coastal, he may transfer, I'm fine with that too.      I guess my point is, the dream school story differs for everyone, in our case, completely different situation for two young men in the same family.    For the first son- he went where he could see himself without football.    For second son, his dreams are to take baseball as far as he possibly can, and chose the school based on what he thought would get him there.    Either way, both decisions are right- for each son's goals.

Not interested in arguing, but I have seen this mentioned often on this site.

Pick a school as if baseball were not involved

I must live in a different world than most folks.  How many real baseball players choose a college based on baseball not being involved in their decision?  I'm trying to think of one kid that has told us he hates the terrible baseball program at the college he selected, the coaches are out of control, the facilities border on being dangerous, they just don't care about baseball, but none of that matters.

I can only see that happening when someone has no choices at all.  Or if baseball stunk at all the choices available. 

On here we talk about baseball, this site is about baseball and I would like to think that baseball is important to almost everyone that contributes here.  I understand someone that doesn't care about baseball picking a school disregarding baseball. I can even understand someone picking a college based on other things, especially academics.  But giving baseball no consideration at all just doesn't seem to fit with the original purpose of this site. A site that is dominated by baseball recruiting topics.

A lot has to be considered with graduation rates.  I mean most good Pac 12 players end up getting drafted their junior year.  Some go back and graduate later on.  Yes, some don't, but some of them have long baseball careers and are wealthy.  Not many juniors getting drafted out of DIII colleges, compared top DI colleges.  But most importantly, it doesn't make any difference what the graduation rate is unless you are one of those that don't graduate! Whatever happened to controlling the things you can control.  I understand that in some cases players are told to leave or scholarships have been eliminated.  But ending up with a college degree is something that almost anyone can accomplish unless they simply cant afford it. 

PG I will say that my son is going to be playing D3 and he picked a school that he loved...and one that fit his baseball goals! He has no interest in playing / attending at school where winning a D3 WS wasn't the goal...the duel requirement limited his options but it was what he wanted.

In order to make it at the college level, in order for the vast majority to be the type of player college coaches would want, baseball IS a major determining factor and for some the driving force for the decision. Now once you have narrowed them down if you are fortunate to have multiple choices other things can help make your decision. But who says "I am not going to consider the baseball. I am going to make my decision as if baseball was not part of the equation." No. That simply is not how it is done.

Some say "what if the baseball is over, make a decision where you would be happy even if you didn't play." Well for some they wouldn't even be considering college as an option if it didn't mean they were going to continue to play. With others it is such a factor that if they were not playing they wouldn't be happy anywhere. While others are in as good a place as they would have been regardless if they were playing or not playing. If LSU offered you would you say "No I think I would be more comfortable at Alcorn State because if I wasn't playing that would fit me better."

For the serious baseball player who aspires to give it all he has to achieve his dream of playing in college he wants to play at the highest level he can. He wants to play at the program that he feels gives him the best baseball opportunity. IT's about Baseball like it or not. Yes there are some kids who focus on the best academic program that offers the baseball opportunity. But believe it or not many and I would say most focus on the best baseball opportunity.

PGStaff posted:

Not interested in arguing, but I have seen this mentioned often on this site.

Pick a school as if baseball were not involved

I must live in a different world than most folks.  How many real baseball players choose a college based on baseball not being involved in their decision?  I'm trying to think of one kid that has told us he hates the terrible baseball program at the college he selected, the coaches are out of control, the facilities border on being dangerous, they just don't care about baseball, but none of that matters.

I can only see that happening when someone has no choices at all.  Or if baseball stunk at all the choices available. 

On here we talk about baseball, this site is about baseball and I would like to think that baseball is important to almost everyone that contributes here.  I understand someone that doesn't care about baseball picking a school disregarding baseball. I can even understand someone picking a college based on other things, especially academics.  But giving baseball no consideration at all just doesn't seem to fit with the original purpose of this site. A site that is dominated by baseball recruiting topics.

A lot has to be considered with graduation rates.  I mean most good Pac 12 players end up getting drafted their junior year.  Some go back and graduate later on.  Yes, some don't, but some of them have long baseball careers and are wealthy.  Not many juniors getting drafted out of DIII colleges, compared top DI colleges.  But most importantly, it doesn't make any difference what the graduation rate is unless you are one of those that don't graduate! Whatever happened to controlling the things you can control.  I understand that in some cases players are told to leave or scholarships have been eliminated.  But ending up with a college degree is something that almost anyone can accomplish unless they simply cant afford it. 

 

I have been in this debate on here before. And agree 100% on this point. As a former coach and now dad of athletes I always say to people "I refuse to apologize for sports being important in our family". And you can bet that if all the stars aligned and his dream school came calling for baseball we would look no further. Education is what you make of it. I went to a juco for two years then a local 4 yr school to finish. We don't all have to go to prestige university. 

Nuke83 posted:

When I was a kid, there was a girl I dreamed I'd someday marry.  She frequented the cover of SI in a swimsuit and I had her poster on my wall.

If asked today if I married my dream girl, the answer is yes.  Clearly, that girl and the woman I married are not the same person. . . . .  

Kathy Ireland??     Didn't we all lol

I hope my post didn't come across as sounding like kids who focus on the best academic situation they can get don't love the game and don't work at it just as hard as the one's who are driven to simply play in college and the academics don't DRIVE the decision. Yes they do. Sometimes I have a hard time putting into words what I am trying to say.

I have coached kids many of them who would have never went to college and got a college degree if it were not for the opportunity to continue to chase their dream. I have coached kids who going to ECU as a student was more important than going to Lenoir Comm College, Louisburg JC, Mount Olive, etc etc and having the opportunity to play baseball. To them the game was simply not a strong enough force. I have also coached kids who had their choice of schools but the desire was so strong they went to a D3 in the middle of nowhere to play.

Each kid is different, every situation is different. Me I went to a JUCO to play college football. I would have crawled over glass to play football in college. That was my driving force to attend college.

Buckeye 2015 posted:

Nuke83 posted:

When I was a kid, there was a girl I dreamed I'd someday marry.  She frequented the cover of SI in a swimsuit and I had her poster on my wall.

If asked today if I married my dream girl, the answer is yes.  Clearly, that girl and the woman I married are not the same person. . . . .  

Kathy Ireland??     Didn't we all lol

Farrah!

Buckeye 2015 posted:

 . . .  

Kathy Ireland??     Didn't we all lol

YES!!!!

Coach_May posted:

"...If LSU offered you would you say "No I think I would be more comfortable at Alcorn State because if I wasn't playing that would fit me better. 

That was funny

I am guessing this is the offseason for PG and he has time to put his thoughts in writing on these cold winter days.  It's a good thing as this thread has been fun to read and participate in.

It's also good to keep in mind the costs... if a kid is lucky enough to get 25% athletic scholarship at a D1, some schools can not / will not allow you to ALSO have academic / merit aid on top of that.  Some will.  In our research of programs around the country, the academic aid can be a much greater savings on the cost of education... especially if your son/daughter has very high test scores.  We've also found in our search that private schools are often able to be very creative with their financial aid & merit aid package... and those academic aid packages can make a pricey private school end up being less than an expensive state school (ie Penn State in-state tuition alone w/out room, board, etc is $20,000/year).  On the flip side, my cousin's son attended Pepperdine University with $108,000 in financial aid.  Private schools with large endowments can pass down a huge savings to students.  Just a few of my thoughts on the money piece of it all since we are knee deep in it... and our oldest son is half way through college with $30,000 in loans (public school, in state tuition and living at home while commuting to school.)

I want a big yacht, but the only way I will ever get one is if someone gives it to me.

For some, a college education is the same way.  I would be the last person to say money doesn't play a part in decision making.  In some way or another the most important considerations for most of the kids we see involves three things. Put them in any order you want...

Baseball, Academics, Money

PGStaff posted:

I want a big yacht, but the only way I will ever get one is if someone gives it to me.

For some, a college education is the same way.  I would be the last person to say money doesn't play a part in decision making.  In some way or another the most important considerations for most of the kids we see involves three things. Put them in any order you want...

Baseball, Academics, Money

Extremely valid point. For us we could start a 'sport of your dreams' sidebar. Working hard with son to keep his baseball dream alive but he is being told by many now he is a D1 football player.  The doors that may open up from a perspective of 1.) sheer number of options and 2.) FREE might make it really hard to pass on. Now would we say that is a dream come true?  I guess we probably would. So I guess I am really coming around to the feeling that although it may not be your original dream or preferred dream...  it can still be a dream fulfilled. Thanks for the OP, this was great food for thought. Made me look at some things differently. Originally I have to admit I was on the more cynical side rolling eyes thinking ok yeah right like that was your dream school!  But after all this discussion I think I have come around to thinking this is a more than one way to skin a cat issue!

2020dad posted:

PGStaff posted:

I want a big yacht, but the only way I will ever get one is if someone gives it to me.

For some, a college education is the same way.  I would be the last person to say money doesn't play a part in decision making.  In some way or another the most important considerations for most of the kids we see involves three things. Put them in any order you want...

Baseball, Academics, Money

Extremely valid point. For us we could start a 'sport of your dreams' sidebar. Working hard with son to keep his baseball dream alive but he is being told by many now he is a D1 football player.  The doors that may open up from a perspective of 1.) sheer number of options and 2.) FREE might make it really hard to pass on. Now would we say that is a dream come true?  I guess we probably would. So I guess I am really coming around to the feeling that although it may not be your original dream or preferred dream...  it can still be a dream fulfilled. Thanks for the OP, this was great food for thought. Made me look at some things differently. Originally I have to admit I was on the more cynical side rolling eyes thinking ok yeah right like that was your dream school!  But after all this discussion I think I have come around to thinking this is a more than one way to skin a cat issue!

I am under the impression that not everyone gets a full football scholarship. So its not always free.  You have to be a pretty highly ranked prospect for that. A lot also depends on the program.

There is a lot of good discussion going on in this topic. Its nice to see discussion on other divisions.  It has always been about D1. There are so many other programs besides the top D1 that offer so much for so many.

FWIW, sons dream school for him was one who was giving him the best opportunity to be successful and for his folks the least amount of $$$ out of our pocket.  He also wanted to go where he would get the best opportuniy to get drafted, BUT he was a top prospect in HS so it was going to happen eventually. Our family knew nothing about Clemson. At that time it was all about the U.  Things just have a way of working out for the best.  As it turned out,  many years later, his choice was the best for him.

Unless you can afford it, reducing debt should be #1 priority. Athletics  is just one way to crack that nut. So are academic scholarships. 

I will say something that I have said many times. That Big State U baseball program dream can be a nightmare for many. Make sure that you help your player to understand that as he is waiting and waiting to hear from his dream school at BSU, its probably best to move on, be more realistic in the search for the better fit.

FBS D1 (129 schools) are all fulls.  86 each team. They do carry another 20 or so non scholarship players.  

2020dad posted:

FBS D1 (129 schools) are all fulls.  86 each team. They do carry another 20 or so non scholarship players.  

Max is 85.  FBS programs sign up 25 per year and use that to fill the best positions with the best players.  Making the roster #s work is interesting and if anyone thinks baseball players lose scholarhips, thats not true.

Also the chances of getting a full FBS scholarship is very difficult.  

I am only pointing this out because it isnt about "free", its about being good enough to get "free".  

PGStaff posted:

I want a big yacht, but the only way I will ever get one is if someone gives it to me.

Where would you cruise in a yacht in Iowa?  Without cheating and going to google to look it up, perhaps a river like the Missouri or the Mississippi?  With my luck, neither of those rivers are close to Iowa   

TPM posted:

2020dad posted:

FBS D1 (129 schools) are all fulls.  86 each team. They do carry another 20 or so non scholarship players.  

Max is 85.  FBS programs sign up 25 per year and use that to fill the best positions with the best players.  Making the roster #s work is interesting and if anyone thinks baseball players lose scholarhips, thats not true.

Also the chances of getting a full FBS scholarship is very difficult.  

I am only pointing this out because it isnt about "free", its about being good enough to get "free".  

 

There are 65 equivalencies in FCS but a max of 85 players may receive scholarship dollars. That puts the average money at 75%. That's the average but in reality there are a lot of fulls given out there too. In all of D1 football there are probably north of 4000 full rides given every year. So you have to be in the top 4000 in the country. Granted that's not as easy as it may sound but it's not like finding the holy grail either.  

There are yachts in Iowa.

PG you DO live in a different world than most of us. You are seeing the best HS baseball players in the country every month. (L u c k y)

I would add one comment to "pick the school without considering baseball" foolish in the sense that a player wants to play of course that is a big part of the decision. I think a more accurate statement should be "go somewhere that you will be happy IF baseball does not work out".   

Missouri River is the Western border of Iowa, Mississippi River is the Eastern border.  If someone were to give me a yacht I would move to Florida or California. 

I always thought the big colleges had 85 full rides for football.  The other division of DI, the one North Dakota State seems to win every year, has fewer full rides, maybe 60 or so.

ClevelandDad,

Do you remember a HSBBW member by the name of Gary from many years ago.  I will never forget how mad he was that Lebron James was getting so much undeserved hype.  He insisted that Lebron was over rated and would never make it in the NBA.  Too bad Gary is not around anymore.

Don't remember Gary and he may have been just before my time here.  I believe LeBron came into the league in 2003 and I didn't become a member until late 2004.  Maybe Gary was Skip Bayless. 

Yes, you can move to Jupiter!   

FBS schools are 85 full rides and FCS are 63 and can be partial, but still have a max, but dont always fund because of $$ issues. I was trying to explain that it isnt easy as just getting a full scholarship and having free.  The costs are enormous to carry that big of a roster and I have seen some articles on cutting back.  A lot of FB players actually play other sports, scholarships  funded by the FB team, track and field is one. Many will never play a full game of college football.  

Not everyone cares if they ever play a full game of football. Had a kid in class the other day, brilliant kid. Great GPA honors classes and family is not without resources. Could go anywhere. Solid player but not over the top. Had a visit with a lower end D1. Said he just wants to go be on the team, catch passes in practice, get the gear and NOT make the cut to travel cause it would cut into his academic time. His GOAL is to be third string and have fun with the fellas.  And he is serious as a heart attack! My son would love to find a place that would like him enough for football to coax a spot on the 35 man roster for baseball. His 'dream' school would probably change according to who might let him do that.  D1, D2, NAIA doesn't matter.  Would be a freebie for the baseball program.  There's got to be somebody out there who would do it. And I guess that's another way to look at the dream school thing. Everybody's vision of what they want to do with their sports career is just a little different and I suppose in a way the dream school becomes the one who helps facilitate the dream!

This is a great discussion and for sure there is not a "right" answer here.

I can only speak for our experiences.  If his talent was off-the-charts at this moment there is no question that he'd pick a school based totally on baseball.  No question whatsoever.  But that isn't the case.  He's a good player but not the best of the best.  It doesn't mean he isn't passionate about baseball or want to chase his dream of playing baseball as far as he can.  But getting invited to play baseball at his dream college isn't going to happen. It's just a fact.

So... what happens to the vast majority of players that are a fringy D1 player like my kid?  He has to make a judgement call.   Ride the bench in a so-so D1 program or play for a good D3 program? While he wants to play baseball as a career, the only way that will happen is if he continues to develop.  Can a 18 year old LHP go from throwing low/mid 80s to low 90s in four years?  Sure.  Is it a guaranteed thing... hardly.  So now, he has to start hedging his bets and strike a balance between good baseball and good academics.  Thank god he studied hard in high school and got good grades so he has options.  

Being able to play baseball at your "dream"' school is only relevant to a very select few players.  Being able to play baseball in college is the dream of most players ... why?  Because at least in our case -- he still has a shot (albeit slim) at achieving his ultimate dream. And if that dream comes to an end?  Then he has a solid degree to fall back on.

2020dad posted:

Not everyone cares if they ever play a full game of football. Had a kid in class the other day, brilliant kid. Great GPA honors classes and family is not without resources. Could go anywhere. Solid player but not over the top. Had a visit with a lower end D1. Said he just wants to go be on the team, catch passes in practice, get the gear and NOT make the cut to travel cause it would cut into his academic time. His GOAL is to be third string and have fun with the fellas.  And he is serious as a heart attack! My son would love to find a place that would like him enough for football to coax a spot on the 35 man roster for baseball. His 'dream' school would probably change according to who might let him do that.  D1, D2, NAIA doesn't matter.  Would be a freebie for the baseball program.  There's got to be somebody out there who would do it. And I guess that's another way to look at the dream school thing. Everybody's vision of what they want to do with their sports career is just a little different and I suppose in a way the dream school becomes the one who helps facilitate the dream!

As far as the player you described, thats not a true athlete. IMO. I have never heard anyone here say their bb son just wants to be on the team to be with the guys. 

Players play, dreamers sit.

Not too many can play football and baseball in college.  Unless he is a real stud.Maybe at the smaller programs.

MAM posted:

This is a great discussion and for sure there is not a "right" answer here.

I can only speak for our experiences.  If his talent was off-the-charts at this moment there is no question that he'd pick a school based totally on baseball.  No question whatsoever.  But that isn't the case.  He's a good player but not the best of the best.  It doesn't mean he isn't passionate about baseball or want to chase his dream of playing baseball as far as he can.  But getting invited to play baseball at his dream college isn't going to happen. It's just a fact.

So... what happens to the vast majority of players that are a fringy D1 player like my kid?  He has to make a judgement call.   Ride the bench in a so-so D1 program or play for a good D3 program? While he wants to play baseball as a career, the only way that will happen is if he continues to develop.  Can a 18 year old LHP go from throwing low/mid 80s to low 90s in four years?  Sure.  Is it a guaranteed thing... hardly.  So now, he has to start hedging his bets and strike a balance between good baseball and good academics.  Thank god he studied hard in high school and got good grades so he has options.  

Being able to play baseball at your "dream"' school is only relevant to a very select few players.  Being able to play baseball in college is the dream of most players ... why?  Because at least in our case -- he still has a shot (albeit slim) at achieving his ultimate dream. And if that dream comes to an end?  Then he has a solid degree to fall back on.

 

 

There is a right answer, its dependent on the situation.

Trying to figure out what would be the best situation because the dream is to play professional ball, isnt realistic.  It could happen but the goal should  be to play where your talent best fits in with the academic program and degree. The rest is icing on the cake.

And keep in mind that for most players, coaches recruit players not the other way around.  GOOD D3 coaches recruit GOOD players not fringy D1 guys.  To get into a really good D3 program is not easy.

JMO

MAM posted:

This is a great discussion and for sure there is not a "right" answer here.

I can only speak for our experiences.  If his talent was off-the-charts at this moment there is no question that he'd pick a school based totally on baseball.  No question whatsoever.  But that isn't the case.  He's a good player but not the best of the best.  It doesn't mean he isn't passionate about baseball or want to chase his dream of playing baseball as far as he can.  But getting invited to play baseball at his dream college isn't going to happen. It's just a fact.

So... what happens to the vast majority of players that are a fringy D1 player like my kid?  He has to make a judgement call.   Ride the bench in a so-so D1 program or play for a good D3 program? While he wants to play baseball as a career, the only way that will happen is if he continues to develop.  Can a 18 year old LHP go from throwing low/mid 80s to low 90s in four years?  Sure.  Is it a guaranteed thing... hardly.  So now, he has to start hedging his bets and strike a balance between good baseball and good academics.  Thank god he studied hard in high school and got good grades so he has options.  

Being able to play baseball at your "dream"' school is only relevant to a very select few players.  Being able to play baseball in college is the dream of most players ... why?  Because at least in our case -- he still has a shot (albeit slim) at achieving his ultimate dream. And if that dream comes to an end?  Then he has a solid degree to fall back on.

 

 

There is a right answer, but it's a different answer for each family.  You've definitely found the right one for yours, and you should feel great about that.

So many have made great points on this topic.  PG Staff, Coach May and 2020dad have each echoed what I believe is the closest to the choice my son made a little over two years ago.  I can tell you his "dream" school was all about baseball.  He was fortunate enough to earn a scholarship to play baseball there, and academics played zero role in his decision.  Maybe I will get hammered on here for saying such, but it is simply true.  I don't say this to brag or tell others this is the way they should go, simply this was my son's choice.  He has big dreams of playing in the big leagues.  Will he get the chance?  I have no idea.  This little thing called the "injury bug" bit him and unfortunately there is nothing he could have done to prevent it.  Now he has worked his rear end off to get back to the point that he is throwing bullpens.  It has been a LONG and bumpy recovery.  He is not all the way back and only time will tell if he returns to his pre-injury form.  Have his goals changed?  Not in the least.  He still dreams of playing professional ball.  He goes to class because it is required.  I hope that is not seen in a negative light, because that is not how I mean it to come across.  It's not that his education is unimportant to him, it just isn't the MOST important.  Baseball has been his life for the past 15 years.  Maybe I am wrong, but as his dad and #1 advocate, he is going about his business exactly the way I would if I had his talent many, many years ago.  I don't want him to let anything get in his way when it comes to chasing his dream.  Once that dream becomes unatainable, then and only then would I want him to shift his focus.  This may mean it takes him 5 years to finish his degree.  He is 12 hours ahead because he did focus on school while he was injured and couldn't play.  So please don't think I don't value education, I certainly do.  I spent 8 years of my life after high school chasing my "dream".     

younggun posted:

So many have made great points on this topic.  PG Staff, Coach May and 2020dad have each echoed what I believe is the closest to the choice my son made a little over two years ago.  I can tell you his "dream" school was all about baseball.  He was fortunate enough to earn a scholarship to play baseball there, and academics played zero role in his decision.  Maybe I will get hammered on here for saying such, but it is simply true.  I don't say this to brag or tell others this is the way they should go, simply this was my son's choice.  He has big dreams of playing in the big leagues.  Will he get the chance?  I have no idea.  This little thing called the "injury bug" bit him and unfortunately there is nothing he could have done to prevent it.  Now he has worked his rear end off to get back to the point that he is throwing bullpens.  It has been a LONG and bumpy recovery.  He is not all the way back and only time will tell if he returns to his pre-injury form.  Have his goals changed?  Not in the least.  He still dreams of playing professional ball.  He goes to class because it is required.  I hope that is not seen in a negative light, because that is not how I mean it to come across.  It's not that his education is unimportant to him, it just isn't the MOST important.  Baseball has been his life for the past 15 years.  Maybe I am wrong, but as his dad and #1 advocate, he is going about his business exactly the way I would if I had his talent many, many years ago.  I don't want him to let anything get in his way when it comes to chasing his dream.  Once that dream becomes unatainable, then and only then would I want him to shift his focus.  This may mean it takes him 5 years to finish his degree.  He is 12 hours ahead because he did focus on school while he was injured and couldn't play.  So please don't think I don't value education, I certainly do.  I spent 8 years of my life after high school chasing my "dream".     

For a lot of kids making it to the bigs is the dream and the degree is the backup plan and that's just reality. We all know that most won't make it but I am sure that everyone who has or will in the future had to believe it first. 

Most kids don't know what they want to major in when they commit so most decisions are baseball-based decisions. That doesn't mean that you don't take school seriously.  They just haven't figured it all out yet. Even kids who won't play a college sports have this problem. I had a conversation with a kid recently who made a 32 on the ACT and he has no clue what he wants to major in yet and he said he probably won't decide until he gets to college. 

I can appreciate your honesty and I wish your son the best in his pursuit of his dreams just as I wish every non-athlete the best in their pursuit of happiness.  

I understand where your son is at. Mine used to tell everyone he majored in baseball.

However, knowing what he does now, I am sure that he tells his guys you are not here to major in baseball, school is #1!

TPM posted:

I understand where your son is at. Mine used to tell everyone he majored in baseball.

However, knowing what he does now, I am sure that he tells his guys you are not here to major in baseball, school is #1!

I tell my son that as well and more importantly, others who've been through it do also. Especially since dad doesn't know anything. LoL

I don't think it is controversial to say we all want our kids to do well academically.  That said, I am in the camp as many who have posted here that support their kids to take baseball as their "dream" as far as it will take them - and finish things up academically if necessary thereafter. 

I would like to encourage many who have posted here that maybe don't see their kids at present as a top talent.  What you see now and what you might see four years from now if the right dedication and drive is applied to achieving the objective might just amaze you.  Often times, the only people who believe in a given player is his Mom, his Dad, and himself.  Sometimes, a player has to reach for the highest opportunity they can get and then battle their hearts out to find their way on to the playing field.  Sometimes, they have to believe more than logic may dictate. 

Baseball is the ultimate skill sport.  Sometimes kids appearing to have less talent may really be players who merely have less experience at "present."  Don't kill your kids dreams by assessing them now.  Encourage them to give it all they got and let the chips fall where they may.  Sometimes the tortoise beats the hare and sometimes the ugly duckling grows into a beautiful swan.  

CD great post.

ClevelandDad posted:

I don't think it is controversial to say we all want our kids to do well academically.  That said, I am in the camp as many who have posted here that support their kids to take baseball as their "dream" as far as it will take them - and finish things up academically if necessary thereafter. 

I would like to encourage many who have posted here that maybe don't see their kids at present as a top talent.  What you see now and what you might see four years from now if the right dedication and drive is applied to achieving the objective might just amaze you.  Often times, the only people who believe in a given player is his Mom, his Dad, and himself.  Sometimes, a player has to reach for the highest opportunity they can get and then battle their hearts out to find their way on to the playing field.  Sometimes, they have to believe more than logic may dictate. 

Baseball is the ultimate skill sport.  Sometimes kids appearing to have less talent may really be players who merely have less experience at "present."  Don't kill your kids dreams by assessing them now.  Encourage them to give it all they got and let the chips fall where they may.  Sometimes the tortoise beats the hare and sometimes the ugly duckling grows into a beautiful swan.  

Based on our son's experience, I would like to use CD's posts to open another option-sometimes the "Dream School" comes from and through the Head Coach of the school recruiting our son's.

In May/June of 2016, two coaching "dreams" came true.

One occurred with Coach Scannell at Trinity University.  They knocked on the door many times over many years dating back to 2002, and finally the door opened to be D3 National Champs.

At the D1 level, I would propose a similar "Dream" came true for Coach Gilmore at Coastal Carolina, the program where CD's son played and played at such a high level.

Could it be that "Dream" schools and "Dream" recruits is where an amazing synergism exists?

As it relates to academics and athletics, I would propose that many of those who achieve at very high levels in college baseball (D1, D2, D3, NAIA) can also get the job done at efficient and high levels in a rigorous classroom environment.  I know our son takes, perhaps, at least as much  pride that he graduated in 4 years with no tutors, outside help, or assistance in the classroom than he does in being voted a D3 All-American and MLB draftee. As a family, I can confirm we were thrilled beyond words when the "dream" we heard Coach Scannell describe in 2000 became true for him and his players in 2016.

My freshman HS son dreams of playing baseball.  At this time, school just looks like a necessary evil to him.

He got in the truck one day this past summer and said "People keep asking me what my dream school is.  What do they mean?  Or they ask me what are my top five schools."  

It will all work out like it's supposed to, dream schools or not.

OP: I think folks come on this site, initially, b/c we absolutely love having baseball in our kids' lives. We read the forum b/c "out there", there is a sense that athletics isn't important in the grand scheme of things. 

I would also echo what many posters have already said: Most kids aren't going professional or even D1 but will learn that lesson at different stages. The forum here gives parents a lot of food for thought to anticipate where their boys might be heading and the pitfalls to look out for on the journey-- all provided by super-experienced posters. At no cost!

If this were a forum dedicated solely to future, high-level D1-ers, it may not have the draw that it does b/c, obviously/statistically, there are more non D1-ers! But isn't it cool that we all love hearing about their experience and celebrate their success. 

I work with a lot of student athletes. Their college lists always include dream schools though, like other posters, I also encourage a much broader definition of 'dream school'...just in case.

I love this thread.  I think more often than not, the dream and the school are mutually exclusive for an extended period of time for the majority of kids.  There is the small percentage that have the talent and grades to get into a top academic school and a top baseball school ie "dream school".  For the vast majority of the others, the "dream" is to play baseball and whatever school they can do that at is what they are happy with.  Then there is another small percentage that are very academically minded that utilize baseball to get into their dream "academic" school.  Assuming we look at the original question as a bell curve, I think the "dream" part of the curve would be in the middle of the curve while the outer edges are the "school" portion.  As has been said many times on here, there is nothing wrong with whatever particular path you take and the great thing is that baseball can help you fulfill that goal.  May every kid be able to achieve THEIR dream.