Drills I don't understand so maybe you can help?

This is one I saw Jim Lefebvre (former MLB manager) show at a coaches clinic once. I am not doubting the man but I have yet to come up with a reason why this works and he never gave one.

While hitting (tee or arm) you take your top hand and turn it upside down. Your thumbs are actually touching.

When I got back to my school and went to our indoor cages I told some of my guys about it and went and tried it. I almost broke my arm when I tried to hit. Maybe I was doing it wrong but I have no idea what it was doing for me.

CoachB, I have seen the walking drill used by lots of big leaguers and minor leaguers here in the cages of central florida. I have spoken to a few hitting instructors about it and they seem to believe it helps them feel the ball is moving when they are moving. Like hitting a moving target. It also helps them with timimg, since you have to reach the tee and make contact at the time you set your foot down.
The 2nd one you mentioned is called a high tee drill. Its is usually done with the top hand and in my opinion it promotes the hitters lifting of the ball or elevating the ball. I don't see a real benefit there, but some swear by it. I can get a hitter to start at the top of the stike zone with routine practice swings, tossing near the letters and a hit stick held high. They will then work from the top down, which is what gravity will promote. Its always harder to come up to a pitch than go down. The quick soft toss seems like a game for the hitter, and since the htter will never hit in a speed drill situation, I have always believed speed drills promote bad mechanics. The hitter never gets set and usually doesn't load too well. Hitting from the opposite side seems good for the wiffle ball league, but I don't know how it can help a hitter with his mechanics or hand-eye.
I like front side one hand drills as they build a strong front side. Most young hitters lean their torso back and swing from the heels, and this promotes a better weight transfer and builds the front side.

the walk up drill can be used to help emphasize the proper lift/load and cocking of the front shoulder and hips, front knee...i have heard the opposite side hitting is just for focus at the plate

Another one I don't understand is softtoss with the toss coming from behind the hitter - e.g. as if the ump threw it... Any idea why on this one?

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Originally posted by 08Dad:
Another one I don't understand is softtoss with the toss coming from behind the hitter - e.g. as if the ump threw it... Any idea why on this one?

Forces you to really watch the ball.

it also forces you to track the ball and to extend through the ball.. it also makes you feel like you are controlling the ball on the bat and pushing it off the barrell

the walk up drill is for those who collapse on their backside or lean back when they swing... it allows the back side to release and let the entire body work in the swing

Coach 2709 posted sometime back about a drill he had observed. Some will call it a reverse grip drill among other things. It is intended to help keep the hands inside the ball and eliminate casting or barring the front arm. It teaches a hitter to push the bat through the zone instead of pulling the bat through it. It keeps the top hand dominate and helps the hitter drive through the ball. This particular drill will help increase hand speed which also translates to increased bat speed.

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Originally posted by CoachO:
Coach 2709 posted sometime back about a drill he had observed. Some will call it a reverse grip drill among other things. It is intended to help keep the hands inside the ball and eliminate casting or barring the front arm. It teaches a hitter to push the bat through the zone instead of pulling the bat through it. It keeps the top hand dominate and helps the hitter drive through the ball. This particular drill will help increase hand speed which also translates to increased bat speed.

This sounds like a bad idea if you buy into rotational hitting because it could lead to the hands becoming disconnected from the torso.

Thanks Coach0 what you put makes some sense to me. I really had no idea what it was trying to do and I guess I left something out when I tried to show it to my kids.

I guess that shows that you need to understand something before you try to teach it.

Coach 2709,
I guarantee you that I have been left scratching my head on more than one occassion when someone tried to teach or tell me how to perform a drill or what its' purpose was.
For myself, it usually hits home when I see a player doing what the the drill was designed to correct in a game situation.Unless my light switch decides to come on first and lets me verbally pr****ss the information.

Painguy,
I know of professional players and players at all the lower levels that use this drill. Have you personally tried it or watched it being performed? I think you might see the usefullness of the drill even for "rotational" hitters.
What do you think of the usefullness of the flat bat drill for "rotational" hitters?

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Originally posted by CoachO:
I know of professional players and players at all the lower levels that use this drill. Have you personally tried it or watched it being performed? I think you might see the usefullness of the drill even for "rotational" hitters.

Just because a lot of people do something, it doesn't mean that it's a good idea (or that it's doing what people think it's doing).

I'm not convinced that "pushing the bat through the zone" is the right way to think of it because that suggests too much action by the hands (as well as getting the hands ahead of, or disconnected from, the body).

I think the rotation should be driven by the body and the job of the hands is to keep the handle of the bat connected to the body.

I think that drills have to fit your personal philosophy and accomplish what your real intent is. Sounds like a dumb statement doesn' it. However, so many people do drills because they see drills and they think that if I do this drill, then we are working better and harder. THAT'S NOT THE CASE! I saw these drills and, as you all know, I want to learn how to be better. If someone could explain them and then I could assess them as to where they fit in to what we teach, I'd do them. Otherwise, I'd avoid any of them like the plague. JMHO!

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........I'd avoid any of them like the plague.

Good advice.....

yes, I'll say it... I agree with Bluedog... these drills are pretty useless (I didn't read all posts on here (because i was getting sick reading the explanations of useless stuff, so I might have missed a good one....

COACH-O You actually use a drill that promotes PUSHING a bat through the zone in a swing... so the main muscles involved are pecs, delts and tri's??? And you actually want a bat to be pushed??

Almost unbelievable...

Painguy,
I agree with you on your statement, "Just because a lot of people do something, it doesn't
mean that it's a good idea (or that it's doing what people think it's doing). You may believe in cloning all hitters, I just don't buy into it 100%. I see to much difference in physical development between players at this age to try to develop all hitters the same way.
I am aware that peak muscle development in males occurs between the ages of 18 to 25 years old and even this will vary due to resistance training and diet to some degree prior to and during these ages. I am also aware that males reach what is called "peak height velocity" (growth spurt) somewhere around the age of 14.
There is a weakening of bone at this time in addition to tight tendons and muscle imbalance around the joints between flexors and extensors. Adjustments in training are required during these phases of development and I feel that more emphasis on flexibility and balance are warranted during this time frame instead of potentially subjecting a player to overuse injuries by training for something that they may not physically be ready for. During this time, if a player complains of pain I will treat it as an overuse problem instead of trying to pass it off as growing pains.
Drills are chosen on a player to player basis. Whether you agree or not is entirely your perogative and I will respect that.
Hello Diablo,
I don't recall saying that I used the drill. I described what I perceive as the purpose of the drill though. I will indulge you in a for instance situation where I would use it and yes, have used it. I had a young club this summer that had 15 roster players, 9 were freshmen, 4 sophomores and 2 seniors. Three of these young men were extending to early and one would bar his bottom arm. To me this indicated imbalance in upper body strength primarily, seeing that lower body mechanics were not bad. They were having trouble transfering the energy into the arms and hands from the torso. I incorporated the drill to help the kids learn to keep the hands in tighter to the body and to balance strength in the upper body.
It never ceases to amaze me how often a simple question as Coach B25 asked here, can be turned into a snipers bonanza. I'm here to learn and improve myself. I definetely make no claim to being the sharpest tool in the shed but I do pride myself on learning as much as I possibly can.
Diablo if you have any constructive criticism to say then do so. I would appreciate that. Be a bigger man than what you exhibited here. I stated what I feel about your comments and I will not remark about it again and look forward to constructive dialogue from you.

#2 may be an attempt to promote a short stroke as it is it nearly impossible to "lay off" the bat and still reach the high pitch. Eye high seems a bit extreme, heard of doing this @ shoulder height.

Coach B.

I do drill #2 with an elevated tee but it's the same concept. It is teaching you to try and eliminate an upper cut swing if you have that. It teaches you to keep your hands above the ball at all times also. Over time, it helps a lot.

My son has used the walk in drill to work on bringing his hands back ...where we want them .
We do this with soft toss from the side . He starts to bring his hands back as he is taking a couple of small steps towards the ball and is fully loaded before he swings . We have found this drill to be very helpful in regards with what we are trying to accomplish .

These drills are useless.....Plain and simple........

quote:

Originally posted by Franchise7:
I do drill #2 with an elevated tee but it's the same concept. It is teaching you to try and eliminate an upper cut swing if you have that. It teaches you to keep your hands above the ball at all times also. Over time, it helps a lot.

What's wrong with an uppercut swing? What's the alternative?

Also, what do you mean when you say you want your hands always above the ball? What does that mean?

work on bringing his hands back ...where we want them .

True..but, MLB hitters don't really bring their hands back towards the catcher to load. During forward weight shift, in keeping the hands back, the body is moving away from the hands thus the perception that the hands are working back. It's more the result of loading the shoulders against the stride that creates that separation not bringing the hands back.

NYDAD- I wasnt trying to make any comparisons to major league hitters . That being said , you are wrong...lots of major leagers will bring their hands back as part of their loading mechanism . Some do...some dont . And just because you do it in a drill, doesnt mean you are going to do it exactly the same way in a live situation. The reason we use the walk in drill is for my son to work on getting his hands back before the pitch is delivered . That way he wont have to worry about any timing issues ( getting the hands back while the pitch is being delivered ) .

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lots of major leagers will bring their hands back as part of their loading mechanism

You mean like this:



Yes that is the "perception"

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Originally posted by thepainguy:

quote:

Originally posted by Franchise7:
I do drill #2 with an elevated tee but it's the same concept. It is teaching you to try and eliminate an upper cut swing if you have that. It teaches you to keep your hands above the ball at all times also. Over time, it helps a lot.

Also, what do you mean when you say you want your hands always above the ball? What does that mean?

If it is a strike it's impossible to hit a ball with your hands under the ball. Get a bat and try it. Impossible.
With an uppercut swing your swing isn't nearly as fast as it can be. You must first drop your hands then swing and that is not creating lift on the ball like people think. You will ultimately pop up 75% of the time and when you hit the ball solid it will have so much top spin. Swinging with your hands above the ball helps in creating backspin which leads to lift and leads to power. Keeping you hands above the ball doesn't mean chopping wood; it means to stay above the ball with your hands and create backspin. Simple as that.

Preach on Franchise. I agree completely

Backspin is created when the bottom of the ball is struck, whether the swing is an uppercut or downswing. It has very little to do with the angle of the swing.

We need definitions here. What is an uppercut? Any upwards motion before contact?

Over 90% of MLB hitters strike the ball at a slight upward angle. This is considered level. To me an "uppercut" is a swing traveling greater than 25 degrees up at contact. But there are just as many MLBers with uppercuts, or swings that will meet the ball at greater than 20 degree upward angle(David Wright, Jim Edmonds, Jeff Bagwell) as there are MLBers who appear to "swing down" (actually a purely level swing, or 0 degree angle at contact) and cut the ball for backspin (Sheffield, Berkman, Cliff Floyd).

In my experience, amatuers tend to swing down too much more than they uppercut too much. However, these kids are often diagnosed with uppercuts, because coaches mistakenly think that any pop-up is the result of an uppercut, or dropped shoulder. So they tell the kids to swing down more. And the kid keeps popping up.

And the hands are always above the ball at contact. Usually about a foot or so above the level of contact. The barrel is what should be taken into consideration.

LevelPath, hitting has so many different theories and terminologies that people take the wrong way. You can tell an uppercut swing when you see one and I don't see 90% of MLBers swinging with an uppercut swing. The only on I can think of off the top of my head would be Jim Edmonds. That is an uppercut swing right there, lol! I'm not going to get anyone else more ryled up on this but I've stated what I believe and what I'm being and been taught. Thank you!

Franchise,

I did not say 90% of MLB hitters have uppercuts...I said OVER 90% of mlb hitters hit the ball at an upward angle...It is what is considered level. Level is level to the ball, not level to the ground. The ball is traveling downward, the bat should travel at a similar angle in the opposite direction, slighlty upward.

Here is a slow motion view of a "level swing". Notice how the lowest point of the swing is well before contact. http://media.putfile.com/sotaguchi
This was a 98 mph fastball from Billy Wagner, and that arc in the path is actually the quickest way to get the bat out in front, not the A to C method...

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lots of major leagers will bring their hands back as part of their loading mechanism


You mean like this:



Yes that is the "perception"

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Reply

Bonds does not take his hands back. He transfers his weight forward and it gives you the illusion that he is taking his hands back. Big league hitters load the body. They do not load the hands by using the arms to take the hands back.

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Big league hitters load the body. They do not load the hands by using the arms to take the hands back.

Major league hitters don't hit all the same. Vlad loads his hands.

Vlad