This isnt baseball but I just want to congratulate the lacrosse players at DUKE for their making it to the NCAA finals on Monday vs Johns Hopkins
Should be a great game !!!
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What will be very interesting is seeing if the NCAA is REALLY about the student-athlete in Duke's appeal for an extra year of eligibility for those players who got shafted out of last season.
JT
Great point---we should know shortly
Great point---we should know shortly
Thanks for starting this thread TR. As a kid that grew up in Durham and still lives 20 minutes from the campus this situation was very close to home literally. I hurt for those boys and it is only fair that they get this year of elgibility back. Im also pulling for them in the championship game because of all they have had to overcome. Go Devils!!
I'm not a big Duke fan... cuz of basketball of course! 
However, the NCAA/year of eligibility thing is one time you'll hear me cheering for the Blue Devils too! Those boys deserve their year back!! 
However, the NCAA/year of eligibility thing is one time you'll hear me cheering for the Blue Devils too! Those boys deserve their year back!!
I will be rooting for the Duke team as well. The treatment of the Duke players this past year has been disgraceful to say the least. I found an interesting article regarding their success this year and why they are being virtually ignored by the mainstream media as they make their run at a championship.
Why Isn't This the Feel-Good Story of the 21st Century?
It should be the feel good story of the new century, a team of good young men and student athletes that started their season under a cloud of accusation and media scorn. The kids are finally absolved of serious criminal charges against them and are proven completely innocent. They continue their inspired rise from the depths of popular opinion to reach the championship game.
Such compelling drama is the stuff of Hollywood movies. Just recently Hollywood devoted millions of dollars to make movies about other teams that have overcome similar adversity, such as “Glory Road,” the story of the first NCAA championship basketball team with an all-black starting line-up; and “Remember the Titans," which centers on racial tensions on the football team of a newly integrated high school in Virginia.
However, the Duke lacrosse team is not a story that will be celebrated by Hollywood. It’s also a story you will not hear much about from the mainstream media because of the rigid orthodoxy of political correctness which is so firmly ingrained in our culture that it cannot be questioned. Thus the rise of the Duke men’s lacrosse team happens in the eerie stillness of a near media blackout.
After narrowly defeating a stubborn Cornell team 12-11 with a goal in the last 13 seconds in front of a record crowd of 52,004 at Baltimore's M&T Bank Stadium, Duke will meet number 3 ranked Johns Hopkins for the championship on Monday.
The Duke team, whose “scandal” dominated sports news coverage for months, is now in the championship game. They secured an exciting win in the final seconds in front of a crowd that exceeds the numbers that will appear at any of this week's basketball or hockey playoff games and almost all of the regular season baseball games not to mention more than some football games on Saturday and Sunday in the fall.
Yet there is little to no media attention. Why, you must ask, is that?
Ordinarily in sports when a team stages an improbable comeback from heavy adversity to compete for the title, the media covers the story in depth. Everyone loves to hear the story of a "comeback," a team's chance at redemption, and the opportunity to experience success after so many bad things have happened to it.
Especially in a case where the story is so compelling, the Duke saga is a real-life tale full of villains: from the unfair actions of a disreputable accuser, to the crooked lawyer-politician that perverts the process of the law for personal gain, to the opportunistic race-card players rushing to the scene like ambulance chasers to an accident. For the modern day press, which functions mostly on tabloid style gossipy news, it seems too juicy for them to ignore.
Yet ignore it they do.
But the media blackout is not about the alleged “crime.” No the blackout is a predictable response from the media, a predictable response due to the fact that the media joined in on the almost unanimous pre-judging of the players as guilty even when all evidence pointed to their innocence.
The media, with very few exceptions, joyfully helped manufacture and perpetuate the false accusations against the players, even as the case quickly unraveled. Now that the whole affair has been exposed as an unconscionable sham is it any surprise that the media wishes the whole incident would go away and not have to say anything more — and certainly not anything good about the Duke lacrosse team?
In the very rare case where the incredible success of the Duke team must be acknowledged in some manner it is only done in a derisive tone as if they still must bear the guilt, still must wear the stigma of a sin that is clear to all they did not commit. But what is their real sin? To the forces that control the information outlets of USA Inc. the crime committed by the Duke players is a crime they are determined to see punished: so-called "white privilege."
Every victory, every success, by the Duke lacrosse team is a dagger into the hearts of all those “impartial” news sources that rushed to judgment. Each time the team wins it is a reminder to all who care of how much the media wanted to see them fail. And the media did not merely want its version of “justice," it wanted a pound of flesh. It wanted the three falsely accused men kicked off of the team, kicked out of school and imprisoned for many years. The media wanted the team destroyed. They were overjoyed when the school took the unprecedented step of suspending their season last year, even though no remaining players stood accused of any crime.
In this story we have a group of young men from good families that were victimized by a system that was intent on finding them guilty of crimes they did not commit, not because of what they did but because of who they are, and more importantly because of the color of their skin. It shows the vile hatred of white men that is found not just in black professional race hustlers, but in white liberals.
The media, the faculty, and the administration at Duke, the so-called social leaders and supposed arbiters of public opinion, sold their soul to the devil in this case. They wished for a case where they could find white men guilty of a crime of interracial gang rape, a crime that is so prevalent across the country — and almost always black men raping white women — that the media rarely publicizes the thousands of cases annually.
And now the team stuffs it back in the corporate media's collective face. They win and celebrate, and bring some happiness back into their lives and the lives of family and friends after months of living as falsely accused pariahs. In doing so they expose the media silence as an exclamation point on how twisted and wrong the “leaders” of our country are.
We wish the best to the Duke team. They are our sons and brothers, our cousins and our friends. They represent the best among us. Each victory, every success is another example of the determination to overcome those that seek to destroy all that is good about our people and culture. It is an inspiring lesson for all of us to learn and emulate.
Why Isn't This the Feel-Good Story of the 21st Century?
It should be the feel good story of the new century, a team of good young men and student athletes that started their season under a cloud of accusation and media scorn. The kids are finally absolved of serious criminal charges against them and are proven completely innocent. They continue their inspired rise from the depths of popular opinion to reach the championship game.
Such compelling drama is the stuff of Hollywood movies. Just recently Hollywood devoted millions of dollars to make movies about other teams that have overcome similar adversity, such as “Glory Road,” the story of the first NCAA championship basketball team with an all-black starting line-up; and “Remember the Titans," which centers on racial tensions on the football team of a newly integrated high school in Virginia.
However, the Duke lacrosse team is not a story that will be celebrated by Hollywood. It’s also a story you will not hear much about from the mainstream media because of the rigid orthodoxy of political correctness which is so firmly ingrained in our culture that it cannot be questioned. Thus the rise of the Duke men’s lacrosse team happens in the eerie stillness of a near media blackout.
After narrowly defeating a stubborn Cornell team 12-11 with a goal in the last 13 seconds in front of a record crowd of 52,004 at Baltimore's M&T Bank Stadium, Duke will meet number 3 ranked Johns Hopkins for the championship on Monday.
The Duke team, whose “scandal” dominated sports news coverage for months, is now in the championship game. They secured an exciting win in the final seconds in front of a crowd that exceeds the numbers that will appear at any of this week's basketball or hockey playoff games and almost all of the regular season baseball games not to mention more than some football games on Saturday and Sunday in the fall.
Yet there is little to no media attention. Why, you must ask, is that?
Ordinarily in sports when a team stages an improbable comeback from heavy adversity to compete for the title, the media covers the story in depth. Everyone loves to hear the story of a "comeback," a team's chance at redemption, and the opportunity to experience success after so many bad things have happened to it.
Especially in a case where the story is so compelling, the Duke saga is a real-life tale full of villains: from the unfair actions of a disreputable accuser, to the crooked lawyer-politician that perverts the process of the law for personal gain, to the opportunistic race-card players rushing to the scene like ambulance chasers to an accident. For the modern day press, which functions mostly on tabloid style gossipy news, it seems too juicy for them to ignore.
Yet ignore it they do.
But the media blackout is not about the alleged “crime.” No the blackout is a predictable response from the media, a predictable response due to the fact that the media joined in on the almost unanimous pre-judging of the players as guilty even when all evidence pointed to their innocence.
The media, with very few exceptions, joyfully helped manufacture and perpetuate the false accusations against the players, even as the case quickly unraveled. Now that the whole affair has been exposed as an unconscionable sham is it any surprise that the media wishes the whole incident would go away and not have to say anything more — and certainly not anything good about the Duke lacrosse team?
In the very rare case where the incredible success of the Duke team must be acknowledged in some manner it is only done in a derisive tone as if they still must bear the guilt, still must wear the stigma of a sin that is clear to all they did not commit. But what is their real sin? To the forces that control the information outlets of USA Inc. the crime committed by the Duke players is a crime they are determined to see punished: so-called "white privilege."
Every victory, every success, by the Duke lacrosse team is a dagger into the hearts of all those “impartial” news sources that rushed to judgment. Each time the team wins it is a reminder to all who care of how much the media wanted to see them fail. And the media did not merely want its version of “justice," it wanted a pound of flesh. It wanted the three falsely accused men kicked off of the team, kicked out of school and imprisoned for many years. The media wanted the team destroyed. They were overjoyed when the school took the unprecedented step of suspending their season last year, even though no remaining players stood accused of any crime.
In this story we have a group of young men from good families that were victimized by a system that was intent on finding them guilty of crimes they did not commit, not because of what they did but because of who they are, and more importantly because of the color of their skin. It shows the vile hatred of white men that is found not just in black professional race hustlers, but in white liberals.
The media, the faculty, and the administration at Duke, the so-called social leaders and supposed arbiters of public opinion, sold their soul to the devil in this case. They wished for a case where they could find white men guilty of a crime of interracial gang rape, a crime that is so prevalent across the country — and almost always black men raping white women — that the media rarely publicizes the thousands of cases annually.
And now the team stuffs it back in the corporate media's collective face. They win and celebrate, and bring some happiness back into their lives and the lives of family and friends after months of living as falsely accused pariahs. In doing so they expose the media silence as an exclamation point on how twisted and wrong the “leaders” of our country are.
We wish the best to the Duke team. They are our sons and brothers, our cousins and our friends. They represent the best among us. Each victory, every success is another example of the determination to overcome those that seek to destroy all that is good about our people and culture. It is an inspiring lesson for all of us to learn and emulate.
I agree that what happen to these players and this program was a tragedy. The media, the justice system, the university and the students owe, this group of young men and eternal apology.
But let us remember that this was a program that had some problems. The players had been cited numerous times for there behavior. Further, despite the fact that the charges were dropped and that the prosecutor is a criminal, they were having a party with strippers. I do not for a minute think this girl was raped, but I do believe their is more to the story.
I find it amazing that we have not seen a plethera of lawsuits coming from the players and the fired coach. But I guess all the shoes have not dropped.
I will be rooting for them, and a championship will make for some very uncomfortable people in the Durham area.
As for the NCAA, I look for them to continue an injustice. Their arrogance alone will lead them down a wrong path.
But let us remember that this was a program that had some problems. The players had been cited numerous times for there behavior. Further, despite the fact that the charges were dropped and that the prosecutor is a criminal, they were having a party with strippers. I do not for a minute think this girl was raped, but I do believe their is more to the story.
I find it amazing that we have not seen a plethera of lawsuits coming from the players and the fired coach. But I guess all the shoes have not dropped.
I will be rooting for them, and a championship will make for some very uncomfortable people in the Durham area.
As for the NCAA, I look for them to continue an injustice. Their arrogance alone will lead them down a wrong path.
For some reason, I feel there is much more involved in this story than what we have heard from either side.
Has the girl who made the accusations been charged with anything? If not, why? Wasn't she the one most responsible for the charges?
Fortunately the Duke Lacrosse players could afford the best attornies possible. Without this ability, what would have happened?
I haven't followed this story as close as many others, but am glad that the evidence cleared those boys. The question I have is what exactly did the prosecuter have to gain by pressing on with the charges. What was the accuser trying to gain out of this.
I think there will be a movie made about this.
Common sense makes me think the following. I do remember being a young male at a drinking party.
Strippers were called and I imagine "paid" to perform at a private house party without any security. There was some heavy drinking going on at that house. There is a chance that those boys at the drinking party didn't just sit there politely.
I can't help but think "something" probably happened. Maybe not what was involved in the charges, but "something"! It would have been terrible had false charges caused harm to those young men. But I don't think we are sending the right message if we are going to make them heros. Yet I think that is what will happen.
LaCrosse is the only winner in this thing. This story had to double the national interest in LaCrosse.
Has the girl who made the accusations been charged with anything? If not, why? Wasn't she the one most responsible for the charges?
Fortunately the Duke Lacrosse players could afford the best attornies possible. Without this ability, what would have happened?
I haven't followed this story as close as many others, but am glad that the evidence cleared those boys. The question I have is what exactly did the prosecuter have to gain by pressing on with the charges. What was the accuser trying to gain out of this.
I think there will be a movie made about this.
Common sense makes me think the following. I do remember being a young male at a drinking party.
Strippers were called and I imagine "paid" to perform at a private house party without any security. There was some heavy drinking going on at that house. There is a chance that those boys at the drinking party didn't just sit there politely.
I can't help but think "something" probably happened. Maybe not what was involved in the charges, but "something"! It would have been terrible had false charges caused harm to those young men. But I don't think we are sending the right message if we are going to make them heros. Yet I think that is what will happen.
LaCrosse is the only winner in this thing. This story had to double the national interest in LaCrosse.
I'll tell you one thing: The whole affair led us to scratch Duke off our list when my son was considering colleges, even though they are an outstanding academic school, in a top baseball conference, and making efforts at improving their commitment to baseball.
I was deeply concerned at the lynch mob mentality that arose from the faculty. These supposed great minds had no problem with convicting the male athletes based on media reports. Even as it became evident that the accusing stripper was, shall we say, of questionable credibility, the faculty was demanding punishment for the players on the assumption that her word was gospel. So much for being presumed innocent until proven guilty!
Mark my words, the offending faculty won't learn from their mistake. These politically correct types never even admit to a mistake, much less learn from one. (Has anyone seen a faculty member apologize yet for jumping the gun, for being wrong, for advocating mistreatment of those athletes?)
After the passage of some time, they will do it again. My son won't be there to be their victim. I fear for those who will be.
I was deeply concerned at the lynch mob mentality that arose from the faculty. These supposed great minds had no problem with convicting the male athletes based on media reports. Even as it became evident that the accusing stripper was, shall we say, of questionable credibility, the faculty was demanding punishment for the players on the assumption that her word was gospel. So much for being presumed innocent until proven guilty!
Mark my words, the offending faculty won't learn from their mistake. These politically correct types never even admit to a mistake, much less learn from one. (Has anyone seen a faculty member apologize yet for jumping the gun, for being wrong, for advocating mistreatment of those athletes?)
After the passage of some time, they will do it again. My son won't be there to be their victim. I fear for those who will be.
I hope that what many people learn through this situation is that false accusations and/or overreaching prosecutors are not uncommon in the system. Unfortunately for most who are accused, they cannot afford the kind of legal team that the parents of these boys could, and they end up in prison for crimes that they didn't commit at all, or crimes that are far worse than what they actually did.
These young men are not "heroes." They put themselves in a situation where they caused major problems for themselves, their families and the university that they represent. All of the young men and women who are athletes representing a university do have to remember that with the privileges of being a college athlete, come responsibilities. Would this story have attracted national attention if it had been a house full of accounting majors? No. It was the fact that these are athletes that made it a national story.
As I tell my son, you don't see headlines in the paper saying "Big State U English major accused of ******", but you do see headlines saying "Big State U athlete accused of ***" That is why athletes do have to be more careful. Are they still going to be college students and do "college student things"? Yes. Do they need to be more careful than a college student who is not an athlete? Yes.
These young men are not "heroes." They put themselves in a situation where they caused major problems for themselves, their families and the university that they represent. All of the young men and women who are athletes representing a university do have to remember that with the privileges of being a college athlete, come responsibilities. Would this story have attracted national attention if it had been a house full of accounting majors? No. It was the fact that these are athletes that made it a national story.
As I tell my son, you don't see headlines in the paper saying "Big State U English major accused of ******", but you do see headlines saying "Big State U athlete accused of ***" That is why athletes do have to be more careful. Are they still going to be college students and do "college student things"? Yes. Do they need to be more careful than a college student who is not an athlete? Yes.
Midlo,
I agree with you in most respects and have been angered somewhat at the "disappearance" of this story, after it changed from "Rich Boys Behaving Badly" to "Media Rushes Wrongly to Judgement".
My one reservation is that the Duke lacrosse players had an established track record for boorish behavior, they were drinking heavily on the night in question, and they did in fact hire a stripper, which was not their only poor bit of judgement, only the most recent. One can only imagine what a transcript of the comments at the party would reveal about these clean cut scholar-athletes. I doubt their moms would be proud.
I suspect this will not end in litigation as I doubt the lacrosse team wants to be deposed about all the other activities in which they engaged over the years, which while not evidence in this case, would likely provide sufficient material for the making of "Animal House II".
Shame on the media for their behavior, and shame on the faculty for their unwillingness to right a wrong, but the Duke lacrosse should get long overdue apologies, not citizenship awards.
p.s. I do think they should get their extra year of eligibility, but with the NCAA's track record for selective stupidity, unlikely.
I agree with you in most respects and have been angered somewhat at the "disappearance" of this story, after it changed from "Rich Boys Behaving Badly" to "Media Rushes Wrongly to Judgement".
My one reservation is that the Duke lacrosse players had an established track record for boorish behavior, they were drinking heavily on the night in question, and they did in fact hire a stripper, which was not their only poor bit of judgement, only the most recent. One can only imagine what a transcript of the comments at the party would reveal about these clean cut scholar-athletes. I doubt their moms would be proud.
I suspect this will not end in litigation as I doubt the lacrosse team wants to be deposed about all the other activities in which they engaged over the years, which while not evidence in this case, would likely provide sufficient material for the making of "Animal House II".
Shame on the media for their behavior, and shame on the faculty for their unwillingness to right a wrong, but the Duke lacrosse should get long overdue apologies, not citizenship awards.
p.s. I do think they should get their extra year of eligibility, but with the NCAA's track record for selective stupidity, unlikely.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
......
Fortunately the Duke Lacrosse players could afford the best attornies possible.......
Strippers were called and I imagine "paid" to perform at a private house party without any security. There was some heavy drinking going on at that house. There is a chance that those boys at the drinking party didn't just sit there politely.
Not to be taking sides, but I'm curious - Those of you with sons who play college baseball, or any other college sport for that matter, would your son still be on his team if he put on a party with strippers and heavy drinking. It's been a while since I was in college, but "back in the day" I knew athletes who said they'd be dropped from the team if they so much as set foot in a party where alcohol was served.
The last I understood, was that "something" happened, but apparently, nothing was forced on anyone. If I found out that my son was at a party like this, indulging in these activities, I'd certainly be less than a happy parent! For any of us to disregard that type of behavior would send some very bad messages to our youth.
I don't even know how many players a LaCrosse team fields, but I'm pretty certain that not all their players were there and of the ones that were there, not all participated in the undesirable behavior. However, all the players were punished with the loss of their season and the loss of their coach. I saw a segment earlier today where the boys discussed the coach that resigned... apparently most of the players have kept in touch and he was to be in the stands today cheering for his guys. We all know how precious and short those college years are... just hate to see any kid robbed of an opportunity/year.
I don't even know how many players a LaCrosse team fields, but I'm pretty certain that not all their players were there and of the ones that were there, not all participated in the undesirable behavior. However, all the players were punished with the loss of their season and the loss of their coach. I saw a segment earlier today where the boys discussed the coach that resigned... apparently most of the players have kept in touch and he was to be in the stands today cheering for his guys. We all know how precious and short those college years are... just hate to see any kid robbed of an opportunity/year.
Funny thing happened on the way to the field---The NCAA gave the Duke lacrosse players back the year that they lost
BUT
a few years ago when the hurricane forced the Jupiter event to be moved into Novemeber during the no evaluation period for Division I Baseball programs they refused to allow a "grace" weekend for the coaches even thought it was an "act of God" that caused
I guess I will never figure out the NCAA and its thinking
BUT
a few years ago when the hurricane forced the Jupiter event to be moved into Novemeber during the no evaluation period for Division I Baseball programs they refused to allow a "grace" weekend for the coaches even thought it was an "act of God" that caused
I guess I will never figure out the NCAA and its thinking
Very good post Midlodad I understand your tone and your comments. I grew up in Durham and still live just a short bit from the campus. What you saw on TV from the professors etc was not the view of the average person in Durham and the surrounding area. And I can assure you it was not the view of the athletic department at Duke University. It was indeed a lynch mob mentality and it made me and alot of people sick. I do not condone this type of behavior (strippers etc) but lets not kid ourselves it goes on all the time. Alot of people got a wake up call as to what can happen when you put yourself in a comprimising posistion. There will be some good to come from this. You are innocent untill proven guilty right? What about the rights of the accused in this case? Thank goodness they got their year back. Thank goodness that the truth came out. How many people that do not have the money to hire the lawyers they had end up plea bargaining to a lesser charge? How many people that do not have the money to hire these type of lawyers end up getting convicted? These guys were tried and convicted by the Duke faculty and the student body before they even had a chance to defend themselves or have their day in court. I hope that this situation makes people aware that the accused has rights just like the alleged victim has rights. The right to due process under the law and the right to not be tried in the court of public opinion and the media circus that this became. I know the DA Mike Nifong wishes he could change the past. But he can not. And these young men will always be remembered by the media as the "One of the players arrested and later had the rape charges against him dropped has enrolled at Brown University and will play lacrosse next season" attached to their name. While the woman who made these false allegations goes back to her life as a relative unknown "victim". Makes me sick to my stomach.
kudos to the ncaa for doing the right thing in a long string of folks looking to do the fashionable thing ... "punish (perceived) rich white kids"
must be a pretty strong instinct as evidenced by some comments here STILL blaming the guys -
this after NC Atty Gen investigated & threw the DA out, and an unprecedented move pronounced the guys innocent & railroaded by a rouge DA against whom charges are pending
speaking of rich white kids, following is a partial bio of a Duke player
" - - - - is the son of a Teamster who worked side jobs on weekends fixing up houses and a mother who raised four children while working full time"
a hired dancer party is kinda tame when compared to some football party incidents where there are often no witnesses to any wrong doing
(living witnesses anyway)
must be a pretty strong instinct as evidenced by some comments here STILL blaming the guys -
this after NC Atty Gen investigated & threw the DA out, and an unprecedented move pronounced the guys innocent & railroaded by a rouge DA against whom charges are pending
speaking of rich white kids, following is a partial bio of a Duke player
" - - - - is the son of a Teamster who worked side jobs on weekends fixing up houses and a mother who raised four children while working full time"
a hired dancer party is kinda tame when compared to some football party incidents where there are often no witnesses to any wrong doing
(living witnesses anyway)
If you really look closely at what Nifong did - it is amazing to me that he isnt behind bars.
Perhaps a few of the Duke faculty could share the cell with him as well.
It really is a shame that Nifong - and his Duke buddies - did what they did - and will not suffer any consequences. IMO
Perhaps a few of the Duke faculty could share the cell with him as well.
It really is a shame that Nifong - and his Duke buddies - did what they did - and will not suffer any consequences. IMO
in college??quote:by stmm: I knew athletes who said they'd be dropped from the team if they so much as set foot in a party where alcohol was served.
visit an "athlete house" at Any-College USA on an offseason weekend,
or just drive up to Buckhead for a glimpse of the new freshmen
DOD, I don't even know how to respond to the accusation that the media chooses not to report on the epidemic of black men who gang rape white women... Huh? Statistically, the overwhelming numbers show the most common form of rape is not stranger on stranger, but someone the victim knows, either a date or an acquaintance or family member. Typically it falls within racial lines- black/black and white/white- and the majority of rapes go unreported. (Info from our local rape crisis center.)
That said, I'm glad the truth was revealed in the Duke case. More than the media, I believe the guilt lies PRIMARILY with the District Attorney (a white man) who should have looked more objectively and more intelligently at the evidence (or lack of it) and witness testimonies (the other dancer, the police who saw the women just after the party, etc.) before going after these young men. I've never seen such a rabid determination to ignore common sense and hard evidence. It was the DA who held press conferences, leaked info, and fueled the media sensation.
I absolutely think the boys put themselves in a precarious position by having this sort of party--they are not little angels and their past boorish behavior only fueled the belief within their own community that they might be guilty. (Many interviews with Duke students who thought it could be true based on their first-hand knowledge of these athletes.) Their reputation was not stellar and left a door open for the trouble that found them.
Finally, I believe the woman should be held accountable for filing a false accusation against the players. She undermines the credibility of other women who are truly victims of sexual crimes, and the fire-storm that happened can act as a strong deterant to reporting these crimes. 1 out of 4 women will be sexually assaulted in some way during their lifetime, but 90% do nothing about it. Great odds for those who target women.
Info:
Rape on College Campuses Incidence facts:
* One in four college women surveyed are victims of rape or attempted rape
* 85% of rapes on campus are acquaintance rapes
* One in six female college students reported having been a victim of rape or attempted rape during the preceeding year
* 27% of women have experienced a rape or attempted rape since age 14
* The majority of reported victims and offenders are college age, with the rape victimization highest among 16-19 year olds
Reporting facts:
* 5% of college women who are raped report the rape to the police
* 5% of college women who are raped seek help at a rape crisis center
Alcohol facts:
* 90% of acquaintance rapes involve alcohol
* Alcohol is a factor in 100% of gang rapes
That said, I'm glad the truth was revealed in the Duke case. More than the media, I believe the guilt lies PRIMARILY with the District Attorney (a white man) who should have looked more objectively and more intelligently at the evidence (or lack of it) and witness testimonies (the other dancer, the police who saw the women just after the party, etc.) before going after these young men. I've never seen such a rabid determination to ignore common sense and hard evidence. It was the DA who held press conferences, leaked info, and fueled the media sensation.
I absolutely think the boys put themselves in a precarious position by having this sort of party--they are not little angels and their past boorish behavior only fueled the belief within their own community that they might be guilty. (Many interviews with Duke students who thought it could be true based on their first-hand knowledge of these athletes.) Their reputation was not stellar and left a door open for the trouble that found them.
Finally, I believe the woman should be held accountable for filing a false accusation against the players. She undermines the credibility of other women who are truly victims of sexual crimes, and the fire-storm that happened can act as a strong deterant to reporting these crimes. 1 out of 4 women will be sexually assaulted in some way during their lifetime, but 90% do nothing about it. Great odds for those who target women.
Info:
Rape on College Campuses Incidence facts:
* One in four college women surveyed are victims of rape or attempted rape
* 85% of rapes on campus are acquaintance rapes
* One in six female college students reported having been a victim of rape or attempted rape during the preceeding year
* 27% of women have experienced a rape or attempted rape since age 14
* The majority of reported victims and offenders are college age, with the rape victimization highest among 16-19 year olds
Reporting facts:
* 5% of college women who are raped report the rape to the police
* 5% of college women who are raped seek help at a rape crisis center
Alcohol facts:
* 90% of acquaintance rapes involve alcohol
* Alcohol is a factor in 100% of gang rapes
I can't fault you for that naivetequote:by Q-G: the District Attorney (a white man) who should have looked more objectively and more intelligently at the evidence (or lack of it)
having known men & women in that line of business it's absolutly scarry -
the power they wield & importance they place on their "stats"
(conviction rates, plea bargain rates, wins-losses, opinion polls, etc) borders on insane -
if they can get a conviction on an innocent guy(s), it makes up for the "bad call" when a guilty guy(s) got off. just a game to them ... they know best what is in the communities best interest
and they wouldn't give it a second thought
This case was not about getting a conviction. This case was about getting them charged. Nifong was in the middle of a heated race for his job during an election. The black community was not going to back a DA in the election race that did not charge these white Duke students accused of raping a black women. With all the marches and media circus swirling around the community Nifong felt it more necessary to charge with unfounded cause in order to help his election campaign than seek the truth before charges were brought. Once he was reelected he was in too far too deep to do anything about the charges. The lies and web of deceit was so thick he was unable to make it right. He had to be forced by the State Attorney Generals Office in Raleigh who actually sought the truth and not what they wanted to find in order to be reelected. Political pressure from black community leaders. Professors as Duke that are the first ones to shout Civil Rights , Due Process under the Law , were banging the drums like a lynch mob. The whole thing made alot of people sick to their stomach. Especially people who have grown up and lived in Durham like me. Make no mistake about it , it was a lynch mob mentality that drove Nifong to do this. And the fear that he would not get the vote if he did not. Mike you should have done the right thing buddy. You should have gathered all the facts fairly , kept your mouth shut , and sought the truth not what you needed to find in order to appease the lynch mob. Too bad for the Duke players and the Durham community. Too bad for the reputation of Duke University. Too bad for all of us. Where are all of those Duke professors now? Why are they not on TV talking about how terrible this was for the lacrosse players?
oh the poor guy under pressure .. you bought Nifong's explanation/excusesquote:by C May: it was a lynch mob mentality that drove Nifong to do this.
tho the Attorney Generals Office indicated it was a pattern (standard operating proceedure for him) that will likly jepardize a bunch of past convitions upon review
quote:Where are all of those Duke professors now? Why are they not on TV talking about how terrible this was for the lacrosse players?
Coach, I'm guessing the TV cameras are gone/unavailable for comment now that the story is less interesting. Lack of guilt is always page 6 material.
As for the professors, it's human nature to avoid eating crow publicly. Nifong has no choice but do it as he has the biggest plate of bird to consume. Guess he'll have to eat for everyone as part of his penance.
quote:Originally posted by quillgirl:
DOD, I don't even know how to respond to the accusation that the media chooses not to report on the epidemic of black men who gang rape white women... Huh? Statistically, the overwhelming numbers show the most common form of rape is not stranger on stranger, but someone the victim knows, either a date or an acquaintance or family member. Typically it falls within racial lines- black/black and white/white- and the majority of rapes go unreported. (Info from our local rape crisis center.)
Quillgirl,
The subject here is gang rape, not date rape or aquaintance rape. And the statistics are as follows. These statistics are from the Dept. of Justice. The same place rape crisis centers get their statistics.
Black gang on white victim = 3000+ per year
White gang on black victim = 0 per year
The media jumped all over the racial angle of this story from the start, as did Sharpton and Jackson. The rarity of this type of news story made it too enticing to ignore, despite the lack of facts supporting it.
Also, you state that the typical rape falls within racial lines. That would be correct for white males but incorrect for black males. The statistics for 2005 are as follows:
Black men on black women: 36,610 rapes
White men on black women: 10 rapes
Black men on white women: 37,494 rapes
White men on white women: 49,657 rapes
From these statistics, you should now be able to understand what the author of the article I posted was talking about. Black on white rape is just not newsworthy in the eyes of newspaper editors but white on black rape is front page news. Now if only the papers could wait until it really happens before reporting it.
So, since it was the media and the race baiters that started the public inquisition of the Duke players, any alternate news article that defends them with some honesty and facts seems relevant and necessary.
Quillgirl,
We probably agree more than we disagree. It is no doubt a useless endeavor to guess what the statistics would be if every rape were reported. But this stripper is guilty of making false accusations more than once. She changed her story several times but was still given the benefit of the doubt by the pandering, conviction hungry DA. She is the one doing a disservice to black women. I find it hard to believe that she would have any reservations about reporting a real rape.
I do agree with you that Americans love a good wreck. But this was a case of the wheels of justice causing the wreck by running over innocent men. And I don't think America agreed with it. Just the mainstream media.
We probably agree more than we disagree. It is no doubt a useless endeavor to guess what the statistics would be if every rape were reported. But this stripper is guilty of making false accusations more than once. She changed her story several times but was still given the benefit of the doubt by the pandering, conviction hungry DA. She is the one doing a disservice to black women. I find it hard to believe that she would have any reservations about reporting a real rape.
I do agree with you that Americans love a good wreck. But this was a case of the wheels of justice causing the wreck by running over innocent men. And I don't think America agreed with it. Just the mainstream media.
Interesting perspectives and facts.
And tough issues to work through. Very difficult.
But one thing seems really clear to me.
That Nifong guy needs to go to jail. Immediately.
And he also needs to get hammered in civil court as well - and pay for the damage he has inflicted.
That is clear to me.
The rest of the stuff is murky IMO.
And tough issues to work through. Very difficult.
But one thing seems really clear to me.
That Nifong guy needs to go to jail. Immediately.
And he also needs to get hammered in civil court as well - and pay for the damage he has inflicted.
That is clear to me.
The rest of the stuff is murky IMO.
"She changed her story several times but was still given the benefit of the doubt by the pandering, conviction hungry DA. She is the one doing a disservice to black women."
Agreed, DOD.
Stats can be vollied back and forth with a variety of interpretations and spins, and are only as good as the data collected. As a white woman, the stats are clear on one account: I am as likely to be attacked by a white offender as a black offender with a higher probability of it being the former, while black women need primarily fear black offenders. Not comforting any way you add it up.
Agreed, DOD.
Stats can be vollied back and forth with a variety of interpretations and spins, and are only as good as the data collected. As a white woman, the stats are clear on one account: I am as likely to be attacked by a white offender as a black offender with a higher probability of it being the former, while black women need primarily fear black offenders. Not comforting any way you add it up.
it appears she just couldn't remember what story she toldquote:by Q-G: She changed her story several times but was still given the benefit of the doubt by the pandering,
btw ... go Cavs
I did not buy anything Nifong was selling. And I certainly dont feel sorry for him thats for sure. But I am not going to say that these kids were bad kids because they had a stripper over. They made a bad decision like alot of people have. That in itself does not make them bad kids. How many people have gotten behind the wheel of a vehicle after having a few too many drinks? How many people have made a poor decision in life? That does not make you a bad person it makes you human. College age kids do things. They make bad decisions. And they make good decisions. But because they make a bad decision to have a couple of strippers over does not mean they should have their civil rights stomped on by an overzeoulous legal system does it? The only difference between the guys wearing the blue uniforms and the guys not wearing the blue uniforms that want to, is the guys wearing them did not get caught when they were younger. Thats a fact.
http://wral.com/news/local/story/1492534/
North Carolina isn't too happy with Nifong.
Just thought some of you might like to follow up
North Carolina isn't too happy with Nifong.
Just thought some of you might like to follow up
no sympathy at all for the guy 
don't think his behavior is unusual ..
that case reminded me of the Akron U freshman who spent 5 yrs in prison for rape.
the prosecutor hid some evidence from the defense ...
and of course didn't let the jury see that particular eveidence
the evidence he hid??
the accuser's diary detailing her lovely consentual romance with the guy on the evening in question!
oops, that might'a been an important detail
don't think his behavior is unusual ..
that case reminded me of the Akron U freshman who spent 5 yrs in prison for rape.
the prosecutor hid some evidence from the defense ...
and of course didn't let the jury see that particular eveidence
the evidence he hid??
the accuser's diary detailing her lovely consentual romance with the guy on the evening in question!
oops, that might'a been an important detail
GOOD FREAKING RIDDANCE TO NIFONG...
....if only all prosecutors had the ethics and moxie of...
....if only all prosecutors had the ethics and moxie of...
Sad day for everyone.
They should ask all/investigate the assistants who got the information and did nothing with it, even if Nifong was not giving it to the Defense counsel.
They should investigate 3 guys paying defense attorney's over $1 million dollars for a case that is not tried.
They should ask Sharpton and Jetstream Jessie for an apology.
They should get an apology from the Duke professors who criticized the criminals and found them "guilty" befor any trial.
Let's remember, folks, this was a case of young men (likely all white) at Duke, likely many of them minors, in a rented house filled with beer and other alcohol inviting STRIPPERS (black) to a party.
They should ask all/investigate the assistants who got the information and did nothing with it, even if Nifong was not giving it to the Defense counsel.
They should investigate 3 guys paying defense attorney's over $1 million dollars for a case that is not tried.
They should ask Sharpton and Jetstream Jessie for an apology.
They should get an apology from the Duke professors who criticized the criminals and found them "guilty" befor any trial.
Let's remember, folks, this was a case of young men (likely all white) at Duke, likely many of them minors, in a rented house filled with beer and other alcohol inviting STRIPPERS (black) to a party.