Duquesne Baseball

Now look at what the Duquesne ahtletic people have started---from baseball to politics---

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Originally posted by baseballregie:

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Originally posted by Baseballdad1228:
Baseballregie,

The spewing of your opinion on softball on here is duly noted.

Oh, I'm actually holding myself back. But I'm not alone. The social engineering that's been going on in this country by the media and our politicians over the past 40 years has done nothing but blur the differences between the sexes. There used to be one and I really liked it.

It depends on your definition on social engineering. If you're talking about those who have attempted to convince society there aren't differences between men and women that's insane. If you're talking about the equal right to attend college, receive a scholarship, compete for a job and earn equal pay for equal work that's sane.

It's sane to assume a women can do an equal job in an executive business capacity. It's insane to assume a small, weak woman can carry a heavy person out of a burning building in an adequate period of time compared to a large, strong man.

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Originally posted by igball:
RJM-

The fact is the gender preference crowd is and has always been an integral part of left wing America. And Title IX is being used by that crowd to go far beyond the simple concept of equal rights for all (which, contrary to some ravings, no one is opposed to) and instead is being used as a sword to attack whatever area the left wingers think need to attacked on any given day (ie lately its higher ed science education).

The intellectual dishonesty of the gender preference crowd is in fact not dissimilar to that of Eric Holder and his ilk when they try and explain why they give free legal service to terroists in Guantanamo Bay. They would say its about supporting our Constitution but in reality its about undermining our society.

My perception is you believe equal opportunity is gender preference. My daughter is just as deserving of a softball scholarship as my son is of a baseball scholarship. They are both student-athletes. If the NCAA wants to eliminate the student-athlete term and accurately reclassify men's football and basketball players as revenue generating employees I'll reconsider.

Outside major men's football and basketball the male or female sports generating positive revenue are few and far between. Without doing the homework, I'll bet there are women's basketball teams generating more revenue than men's baseball.

I have no idea what Eric Holder and the terrorist trials has to do with gender equality.

The pontifications shared by a couple of you underscore the absolute need for Title IX.

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Originally posted by Baseballdad1228:
The pontifications shared by a couple of you underscore the absolute need for Title IX.

Well shut my mouth. I agree with the above poster in that this is a thread about Duquesne baseball and it's probably a little disrespectful to turn it into a Title 9 debate.

Lefties have no tolerance for anyone's opinions but their own anyhow.

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Originally posted by Baseballdad1228:
The pontifications shared by a couple of you underscore the absolute need for Title IX.

I am outraged by that remark!

I believe in equal opportunity across the board. If 60% of qualified college applicants happen to be women, then there is your student body. And while we're at it, let's apply those same free market principles to allocating financial resources too.
Allow the men's programs to allocate their reveunues to the men's sports and likewise with the women's big time revenue producing sports.

If you are in favor of free market principles in admissions, you should also be in favor of those same principles in allocating other resources too.

Good luck spreading that women's hoops money around.

I'm reminded how Chris Everett use to complain how the different size purses in professional women's tennis vs mens was sexist too. Maybe market force had a little something to do with it? But that's all changed now.

The sad hypocrisy of this particular situation with the Dukes baseball program is the law was recently changed that said the school's could not cite Title IX as a reason for their cuts so instead they all use budget as the offical reason why quietly admitting that they are also in compliance with Title IX.

Comrade Obama-Reid-Pelosi-and friends get their way. By the way RJM, best of luck with your son playing baseball in college. If by chance his program gets the knife just consider it collateral damage.

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By the way RJM, best of luck with your son playing baseball in college. If by chance his program gets the knife just consider it collateral damage.

Unless there are rumblings of a baseball program going under during the recruiting process, it's an uncontrollable event to be dealt with. My son will attend college for academics first and baseball second. Should the misfortune occur he will have to decide whether he's happy at the school without baseball or move on. One thing he's already been told in terms of making a decision is, choose a school you will still be happy to attend if baseball is taken away. It's meant more in terms of being injured, cut or quitting. But having the program removed would be part of that consideration.

I'm not sure what bringing Obama, Pelosi and Reid into the conversation has to do with the college baseball. To call call Obama "comrade" shows lack of respect for the office of the president and the United States. Just because the left called Bush names doesn't make it right. Scott Brown won in Massachusetts by refusing to return the insults.

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Lefties have no tolerance for anyone's opinions but their own anyhow.

Baseballreggie ..... I agree man! Let's get away from gender, and politics, and talk about this for awhile!

Whatever happened to Duquesne baseball?

While it stinks that there will now be another program not offering baseball when my son graduates in 2013 I can see why baseball faced the axe...they had not had a winning record in forever. I was able to go back to 2003 on their site to see what there record was and it isn't pretty. Here is what I found....

2009: 14-41

2008: 26-29-1

2007: 22-29

2006: 19-34

2005: 21-34

2004: 21-28

2003: 25-29


Still stinks to see another program bite the dust...especially up here in the northeast...not too many D1 options left up here. Plus when other Schools see it, it just puts the idea in their heads as well!! Uugghh

BaseballRegie,

I believe in your right to have an opinion. That, however, doesn't make you right...

Cball, I hope you enjoy being outraged. Wouldn't want to cause you any discomfort.

Won't post about this here any longer. PM me if you really want to discuss.

To those who think this thread was somehow hijacked away from the sadness surrounding Duquene cancelling baseball, I apologize for my part in that. At the same time, hopefully people understand that its downfall was not a random act but part of a larger tragedy that is befalling alot of men's programs around the country.

Have they said how much money they expect to save by cutting the baseball program?

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Originally posted by redsox8191:
While it stinks that there will now be another program not offering baseball when my son graduates in 2013 I can see why baseball faced the axe...they had not had a winning record in forever. I was able to go back to 2003 on their site to see what there record was and it isn't pretty. Here is what I found....

2009: 14-41

2008: 26-29-1

2007: 22-29

2006: 19-34

2005: 21-34

2004: 21-28

2003: 25-29

It's really a shame that this has happened, I feel badly, but I think looking at the above, nothing to do with TitleIX, a school struggling to make ends meet can't continue to have a losing program, year after year, whether it be a Women's or a Men's sport.

I respect the fact that they will keep the scholarships in tact, did they have to do that?

I agree with CD, take this unfortunate circumstance and turn it around, work hard to show off your skills when playing other teams, make contacts, look for the positive.


JMO.

Interesting debate here.

I think Title IX has been hijacked by people with a political agenda extending far beyond equity in women's sports, and I don't think this makes me anti-woman sports.

Is direct proportionality really a good rule to use when deciding scholarships? I don't think so, but the US Dep't of Education Office of Civil Rights has been dominated for years by gender equity feminists, and their rulemaking has enforced this interpretation for years.

Pointing out the bad side effects of well-meaning legislation doesn't mean you are opposed to the goals of that legislation.

How man scholarships per roster spot does women's softball receive? How does that compare to men's baseball?

Is that equitable? How many HS baseball players are there in the US compared to softball players? Are there more softball scholarships per competing HS softball player or per competing HS baseball player?

I don't think pointing out these inequities makes me anti-female. And I rather enjoy college softball.

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Originally posted by Baseballdad1228:
BaseballRegie,

I believe in your right to have an opinion. That, however, doesn't make you right...

Cball, I hope you enjoy being outraged. Wouldn't want to cause you any discomfort.

Won't post about this here any longer. PM me if you really want to discuss.

BBdad1228

I'm late to the party but being outraged is just in now. It's my new hobby.
More than enjoy it I live for it and look for it everywhere.

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Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
Have they said how much money they expect to save by cutting the baseball program?

Duquesne's athletic director says that more than $1M will be reallocated annually throughout the athletics program as a result of the move, which will discontinue baseball, men's swimming, men's golf and wrestling.

I saw that...but that's $1m for baseball, men's swimming, men's golf and wrestling. It seems a little high to me...was wondering how much baseball was of that.

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Originally posted by piaa_ump:

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Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
Have they said how much money they expect to save by cutting the baseball program?

Duquesne's athletic director says that more than $1M will be reallocated annually throughout the athletics program as a result of the move, which will discontinue baseball, men's swimming, men's golf and wrestling.

The key phrase here is, "reallocated annually throughout the athletics program..." They're not saving a dime.

You have to save money one place to be able to reallocate it elsewhere. Clearly they save money by cutting a program.

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Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
You have to save money one place to be able to reallocate it elsewhere. Clearly they save money by cutting a program.

Not sure if you're trying to be sarcastic with the rolled eyes or just thick but if an athletic program spends $5 million dollars one year and $5 million dollars the next year, how much money did they save? If they were saving $, that $1 million would have gone back into the schools funds and other programs would also have been cut.

You're looking at it one level higher than I am. they saved in baseball, etc to fund increases elsewhere so the net was the same in your example. Never mind. Seems no one knows anyway.

The crowds at the softball games should be huge next year.

I've been a Wisconsin Badger fan since my days in the womb, and after living through that umbilical cord cut in '56 I then survived the cutting of UW baseball in '91. Pat "scissor hand" Richter, the AD, and a UW baseball All-American was the "cut man". It was the days of Title IX but it was also the day that UW Regents and the State Assembly "that's enough" of running in the red to the Athletic dept. Do something, and they did.

I for one shook my fist at Title IX. However, as Ive worked at the University for 30 years I now understand cuts in all aspects of University life. No one wakes up with a chip on their shoulder and says "let's cut a sport". It is shook out, and argued at deeper level than anyone here could imagine. We look at program cuts from the heart, but at the University level it is a political, fiscal, and futuristic approach to long term planning.

Here's an article about the status of Duquesne academic financials and IMO they expect success and are used to it. I think we have to keep in mind that this is an academic institution first with Athletic programs,

article

The following article is for anyone who doubts the existence of the elephant in the rooom:

Duquesne Cuts Four Men's Sports
The bad news from Duquesne University:

Duquesne University today announced a strategic restructuring of its varsity sports program in an effort to maximize financial resources and ensure sustained athletic success. The move will reduce the number of varsity sports from 20 to 16 and keep all related scholarship and operational funding within the athletic department.
"Focusing on and strengthening a core group of sports will maximize our ability to compete at the highest level, enhance the student athlete experience, and better utilize existing funding," said Greg Amodio, Duquesne athletic director. More than $1M will be reallocated annually throughout the athletics program as a result of the move, which will discontinue baseball, men's swimming, men's golf and wrestling.

"This action is in no way meant to diminish the dedication, effort or ability of these fine student athletes, coaches and alumni. They have contributed greatly to Duquesne athletics and to the vitality and history of the University," Amodio said.


Thanks to our friends at College Swimming for passing along the bad news. Though Title IX is never mentioned, we ought to take a look at the numbers to see what the truth really is. According to data provided by the Department of Education, here's the situation at Duquesne:
The current balance between male and female participation in athletics is 284-245 (53.6%-46.4%) in favor of men. Given that the undergraduate balance at Duquesne was 3,098-2,280 (roughly 58%-42%), it would seem at first glance that the school was seriously out of compliance with the principal of strict proportionality and at risk for a law suit.

By eliminating four men's sports, Duquesne subtracts 76 athletes from the male side of the ledger, making the new ratio 245-208 (roughly 54%-46%) in favor of the women. Though that doesn't line up exactly, it's probably more than enough for the school to immunize itself against legal action.

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There used to be videos of Finch smoking Bonds and Pujols. Maybe MLB had them removed. I'm not anti-baseball or I wouldn't be on this site. I played college ball. My son aspires to play college ball. I'm just trying to enlighten the less enlightened.

Bonds and Pujols were using their wood baseball bats when they faced Finch. I guarantee that wouldn't happen if they were ising a 34" 22oz softball bat.

They also only showed Bonds and Pujols swinging and missing a couple times. The video highlights didn't show everything that happened.

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Originally posted by igball:
RJM-

The fact is the gender preference crowd is and has always been an integral part of left wing America. And Title IX is being used by that crowd to go far beyond the simple concept of equal rights for all (which, contrary to some ravings, no one is opposed to) and instead is being used as a sword to attack whatever area the left wingers think need to attacked on any given day (ie lately its higher ed science education).

The intellectual dishonesty of the gender preference crowd is in fact not dissimilar to that of Eric Holder and his ilk when they try and explain why they give free legal service to terroists in Guantanamo Bay. They would say its about supporting our Constitution but in reality its about undermining our society.

Title 9 was signed in 1972 by Nixon....a right winger.

Your point makes sense, though (except for the Gitmo comment).

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They also only showed Bonds and Pujols swinging and missing a couple times. The video highlights didn't show everything that happened.

You mean once they watched the ball instead of the pitcher they might have hit it?

As a college baseball player with many female friends who are college athletes as well, I can certainly say they women's sports are prevalent and should be taken into great consideration in terms of respect as well.

If a program or programs are cut due to a lack of monetary funds and the athletic department deeming the sport unable to continue to compete because of that, then so-be-it. It's a terrible occurence and could be viewed as selfish and punishing of the student-athlete, but lest we forget that collegiate athletics is a business after all.

If a program is cut because a larger governing body decides that the university or college is being unfair because they are favoring a particular demographic and discriminating against another, I believe this is complete blasphemy and frankly absurd.

Title IX was created to attempt to create equality amongst collegiate athletics. EQUALITY does not mean favoring a perceived minority because it is the "right thing to do". EQUALITY means that everyone deserves a chance to succeed to the highest level they can in their particular sport. To this day I still do not understand why it is OK to cut a men's wrestling program for a women's lacrosse program. Or a men's tennis program for a women's swimming program. I completely, 100% agree that women have every right to participate in sports at their desire just like men do, but I completely 100% disagree with cutting a men's athletic program in order to do away with the belief that there is an underlying sexism in allowing these sports to exist.

I feel bad for those who are involved in the Duquesne baseball program, just as I felt bad for the players and recruits of Northern Iowa and Vermont when I initially heard the news of their programs being dropped last year. I wish them the best of luck in making their academic decisions for the future.

And on a last note, just so no one accuses me of being sexist (although I think I made it clear I'm not), I have a sister who is a freshman in high school who plays field hockey and softball for the school, and used to do figure skating and basketball as well. I think she deserves THE SAME chance as I did to participate in a collegiate sport if she so desires to. But not more of a chance.

Why hasn't anyone attacked men's college football for having 80+ scholarships when there are only 22 starting positions plus 2 kickers? Why hasn't anyone attacked men's college basketball for having 12 scholarships when usually only 8 or 9 players get playing time? Is it easier to attack women's sports?

While I might not agree with everything RJM has posted on this subject. I do agree that having 80 Scholarships for football,that is close to 4 times the number of positions) is hard to take. I undertand that Football brings in the money but can't the third string right DE also be the third string left DE?

I post this with a kid that plays high school football and baseball. He might have opportinties in both sports. Is the only reason they get that many scholarships is becaue of the money they bring in?

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Bonds and Pujols were using their wood baseball bats when they faced Finch. I guarantee that wouldn't happen if they were ising a 34" 22oz softball bat.

That remark reminds me of the time Johnny Bench appeared on a Day Time talk show, Mike Douglas I think in the 70's, and he faced the pitcher for "The Queen & Her Court" (the female version of Eddie Feinter's King & His Court team ... whom I saw on a number of occasions). Anyway, she smoked two strikes by him but then on her last pitch; Bench nearly "decapitated" her!

I played "ShowCase" style fastpitch softball on a traveling Command Level Air Force Team with several, ex-minor league baseball, team members (that joined USAF to escape the draft). We played Military and National teams throughout Europe & Asia. It's a great game, not baseball, but a great game.

I have three daughters besides my son (one was an athlete) so I feel I have some understanding of gender issues. Thus, I must say, I found the over zealous, attacking response, to what seemed to me an innocuous remark, to be completely out of line. If someone felt they needed to defend "womens rights", certainly a less aggressive tone would have been more prudent. Just my opinion, from the outside looking in.

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Title 9 was signed in 1972 by Nixon....a right winger.

Nixon may have been a Republican, but he was hardly a right winger. He created Medicare, the EPA, he established wage and price controls! Some conservative!

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Why hasn't anyone attacked men's college football for having 80+ scholarships when there are only 22 starting positions plus 2 kickers? Why hasn't anyone attacked men's college basketball for having 12 scholarships when usually only 8 or 9 players get playing time? Is it easier to attack women's sports?

Plus special teams, plus substitutes, plus the money they bring in. I don't like that college football teams get 80 plus scholarships and baseball gets 11.7, but I understand, somewhat...

I read a very interesting article the other day; subject the changing demographics of college students. The essence was by the year 2018 3 out 5 graduates will be female. The implications flow through our economy and our society.

As it pertains to our little world stories like Duquesne, Vermont, Northern Iowa are just the tip of the iceberg.

Guys the world that we knew when we grew up (us Dad's) is gone.

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ILVBB quote:
The essence was by the year 2018 3 out 5 graduates will be female.

That doesn't surprise me.

What is the graduation ratio today?

What is the ratio of male/females who initially enroll as Freshman, now, and the projected ratio 2014 in regard to that 2018 grad ratio?

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Originally posted by golfball:

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Why hasn't anyone attacked men's college football for having 80+ scholarships when there are only 22 starting positions plus 2 kickers? Why hasn't anyone attacked men's college basketball for having 12 scholarships when usually only 8 or 9 players get playing time? Is it easier to attack women's sports?

Plus special teams, plus substitutes, plus the money they bring in. I don't like that college football teams get 80 plus scholarships and baseball gets 11.7, but I understand, somewhat...

Has anyone actually sat through a complete week of D1 football practices. You see injury reports on the starters all the time but you don't hear about those that are hurt from the scout teams. It's a very violent game where many are on the edge of being officially "injured". When they use the term "practice dummy", many times those dummies have a pulse and if those "3 deep" went at it every week in practice, Saturday games would be much less exciting.

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Originally posted by RJM:
Why hasn't anyone attacked men's college football for having 80+ scholarships when there are only 22 starting positions plus 2 kickers? Why hasn't anyone attacked men's college basketball for having 12 scholarships when usually only 8 or 9 players get playing time? Is it easier to attack women's sports?

Because football & basketball, and men's sports in general bring in allot more money to colleges and universities than women's sports do. In my opinion, the sports that bring in the most money deserve the most funding.

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Originally posted by td25:

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Originally posted by RJM:
Why hasn't anyone attacked men's college football for having 80+ scholarships when there are only 22 starting positions plus 2 kickers? Why hasn't anyone attacked men's college basketball for having 12 scholarships when usually only 8 or 9 players get playing time? Is it easier to attack women's sports?

Because football & basketball, and men's sports in general bring in allot more money to colleges and universities than women's sports do. In my opinion, the sports that bring in the most money deserve the most funding.

When the NCAA ends the charade the players are all qualified college students and student-athletes I might agree with you. But until the NCAA ends the charade and admits these sports are nothing but a business with many players otherwise unqualified to attend college I'll stick with equal rights for all student-athletes. But Title IX does allow a partial exemption for football due to the cost.

You also might be surprised to know once you get away from the top fifty football and basketball programs in these two sports they lose money. I'll bet Duquesne's baseball revenue is ZERO, the same as softball.