Earned run - define

I am certainly no authority but I would say the answer to your question is an unearned run.

According to my understanding (of which there isn't much ) in the following scenario all runs scored would be unearned. With the first two batters going down in order, the third batter gets on due to an error, then any runs scored after that would be unearned in that inning no matter how they came about, home run or whatever.

In a different scenario where the outs and errors are interspersed with each other it gets too complicated for me to keep up with.

I'd love to hear from someone in the know.

Beezer...unearned.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bkekcs:
I am certainly no authority but I would say the answer to your question is an unearned run.

According to my understanding (of which there isn't much ) in the following scenario all runs scored would be unearned. With the first two batters going down in order, the third batter gets on due to an error, then any runs scored after that would be unearned in that inning no matter how the came about, home run or whatever.
QUOTE]

See, now I would think that the player getting on due to an error would be an unearned run but if they score from legit hits like the HR you mentioned, those are earned.

[See, now I would think that the player getting on due to an error would be an unearned run but if they score from legit hits like the HR you mentioned, those are earned.[/QUOTE]

You may well be right. I hope someone in the know will clarify it for us.

quote:

Now here's my question - if a batter gets on base due to an error in the field and then scores when driven in on a hit, is that an earned run?

If somebody gets on via error, that run can NEVER be earned, no matter how it is driven in.

If there are two outs and an error occurs THAT WOULD HAVE RESULTED IN AN OUT, all runs after that are unearned ,no matter how scored.

Not all errors would result in outs. EG, single to the OF, ball gets by OFer' resulting in extra base.

I have talked to a lot of high school scorekeepers and most don’t understand how to determine earned runs. If they do understand earned runs, they have a problem calculating the ERA from their data. Some use 7 innings and some use 9 innings and some use the actual innings of the game being played. DUH, Of course we all know how many innings are used in high school to calculate ERA.
First of all...NO run that is scored by a batter that becomes a runner as a result of an error or a passed ball will ever be scored an earned run.
The earned/unearned run is complicated but simple if you understand the concept. Earned runs are the report card of a pitcher and nothing else. An earned run is equal to a missed question on a pitcher’s test. If he missed too many he fails the course. To judge a pitcher’s ability (to pitch), we should only judge him for what he has control over. A pitcher should not, and is not, blamed for someone else’s mistakes like fielding errors and passed balls. A pitcher is not even held accountable for his own errors as a fielder...remember his ERA is used ONLY to judge him as a pitcher not as a fielder. To determine earned runs you must go back and reconstruct the inning as if it were error free and without passed balls. A wild pitch is the result of a pitcher’s inability to control his pitch, therefore, wild pitches are used when calculating earned runs.
As a score keeper you learn to project earned runs as the inning unfolds and calculate where runners would be had no errors or passed balls occurred. Things change all during the inning. For instance. First batter gets a single and advances to third base on throwing error and a passed ball. He then scores on another passed ball. While it appears that run is going to be unearned, it can only be determined if his run is earned or unearned after that half inning is completed. If you get confused....you give the pitcher the benefit of the doubt.
Fungo

so if there is 2 outs and shorstop makes error- pitcher gives up 4 straight home runs- none of them are earned- not a very good report card-

Wavehog,
That part most likely gets recorded in the L column. There are also a lot of relief specialists with unrealistic ERAs. A reliever comes in with bases loaded and two outs and gives up a couple hits allowing all three runs to score and all the runs get charged to the previous pitcher. He then gets one out to end the inning and improves his ERA.

It would probably be more "fair" for a reliever to inherit a runner for each out there is when he enters the game. At the least with two outs a runner on first should belong to the reliever not the starter.

Wavehog,
That's right...all unearned. He did his job. He got the ground ball to get the team out of the inning and the SS booted the ball. Of course the batting average against the pitcher goes up and the HR's allowed goes up...but not the ERA.
CADad, good points. I have seen starter give the relievers a hard time because the allowed their runs to score or even blow the save and grab the win... Sometimes it looks like it was planned .
Fungo

I have a question which has been bothering me. if the pitcher over throws it to first (3 times by the way/ only one got by, the 1st baseman got the rest) would the one kid that got on count as an ER even though it was an error.


Thanks
plp56

NO...
From the rules:
(b) No run shall be earned when scored by a runner who reaches first base (1) on a hit or otherwise after his time at bat is prolonged by a muffed foul fly; (2) because of interference or obstruction or (3) because of any fielding error. (c) No run shall be earned when scored by a runner whose life is prolonged by an error, if such runner would have been put out by errorless play. (d) No run shall be earned when the runner's advance is aided by an error, a passed ball, or defensive interference or obstruction, if the scorer judges that the run would not have scored without the aid of such misplay. (e) An error by a pitcher is treated exactly the same as an error by any other fielder in computing earned runs

I just started some scoring and the earned run thing is a huge problem for me...

The easy part is when a player reaches first on an error, then you can count him as an out and when you got 3 outs no run after that is earned, right?

But what do you do, when a runner steals 3rd and the catcher overthrows and the runner scores. The runner would have been save on third, even when the throw would have been good.

quote:

In determining earned runs, the official scorer must reconstruct the inning as it would have occurred without the errors

Do you count the runner as an out, even though he wouldn't have been out?
Then it would be easy, you can just count every single run with an error in it as an unearned run.

Here an example, that happened recently on a juniors game:
R1 steals 2nd, is save sliding, the throw from the catcher goes past the infielders and the Runner goes on to 3rd. Then he scores on a single.
So I scored him:
1B: HP
2B: SB
3B: 2-E6
home: batted forward

after that, R1 is caught stealing and then 2 strikeouts to the following batters, is this run earned?

quote:

just started some scoring and the earned run thing is a huge problem for me...

The easy part is when a player reaches first on an error, then you can count him as an out and when you got 3 outs no run after that is earned, right?

Right, Plus, that run that reached 1B on an error can NEVER be counted as an earned run..EVER.

quote:

But what do you do, when a runner steals 3rd and the catcher overthrows and the runner scores. The runner would have been save on third, even when the throw would have been good.

At the time the run scores you don't know if he will be earned or unearned. Let me give you a "for instance". If there were two outs when the errant throw allowed him to score, and the following batter flies out to RF the run will be unearned because the inning would be over without him scoring...but..if there were less than two outs and the batter flied out to deep RF you would have to score it an earned run because he could have scored anyway on a sac fly. You have to re-play the inning out in your mind as if there were NO errors.

In determining earned runs, the official scorer must reconstruct the inning as it would have occurred without the errors

quote:

Do you count the runner as an out, even though he wouldn't have been out?
Then it would be easy, you can just count every single run with an error in it as an unearned run.

No. Most of the time you won't know if a run is earned or unearned until that half of the inning is over.

quote:

Here an example, that happened recently on a juniors game:
R1 steals 2nd, is save sliding, the throw from the catcher goes past the infielders and the Runner goes on to 3rd. Then he scores on a single.
So I scored him:
1B: HP
2B: SB
3B: 2-E6
home: batted forward

after that, R1 is caught stealing and then 2 strikeouts to the following batters, is this run earned?

The run will more than likely be an earned run because with errorless play he is at second base with no outs. (HBP and SB) Following his SB the following batter singles. In your opinion would the single been sufficent to score the runner from second base? If so, it is an earned run. If not, the run is unearned.
Fungo

Hey that's great, I think I got a beter idea now, thanks
So it's quite important to mark those earned runs already while scoring.
I've been handed some old scoring sheets, where you just can't say if that fly out was deep enough to score or things like that

quote:

with the benefit of the doubt always being given to the pitcher

So when you don't do it in the game already, then you'd probably say, the runner only gets 3rd on a single and doesn't score
(our field is not that big...)

Well, I'm trying to work those bugs out, gotta score some MLB games so i can check with the official boxscores later

One more thing to be aware of and possibly confuse folks. It is correct to say that any runner who reaches via an error and scores will be scoring an unearned run. And that when reconstructing an inning, when it is decided that 3 outs should have been recorded that any run scoring after that is unearned. *Except when you change pitchers in an inning. Whenever a relief pitcher enters the game, the count starts over as far as 3 outs is concerned, but only for the hitters which he personally faces. For instance, with 2 out and a runner on 2nd who reached on a double off of the startiing pitcher, a relief pitcher enters game. The first hitter he faces hits a grounder to ss who throws the ball over the 1st baseman's head, out of play and the runner from 2nd scores. That run is unearned for the starting pitcher. Now the next 2 hitters hit home runs off of the relief pitcher. The runner who had reached on the error by the ss scores, and that run is unearned but the runs scored by the home run hitters are both earned and counted against the relief pitcher as earned even though the inning should have been over with the grounder to ss. Every pitcher who enters a game does so with a clean slate as far as number of outs, earned runs etc. Confused yet? I almost confused myself while trying to explain this, but please trust me, I know about this stuf.