Education vs Baseball

Terk7, boy, those are some great questions.
To be honest, I don't think there is any answer. Each student athlete will get out of college and baseball the discipline, dedication, energy and sacrifice they put into the process.
I can tell you our son played and roomed in the minor leagues with a former Stanford player. That young man completed his undergraduate work in 3 years and had a double major in economics and something I could not spell.
Bordeaux's son, David Stringer was the subject of a thread in June. David is also a Stanford grad and baseball player. In the CWS, it was disclosed that David had the highest GPA of any player in Omaha, something like a 3.96, again in a major I can't even spell.
One of my son's best friends graduated from Yale in 4 years as an All Ivy football player. He had a double major in econ and engineering, a 3.65 GPA, no girl friend and not much outside life...and loved it.
With all of this said, if your son is playing baseball in college, he is going to be challenged on the field and in the classroom. He will sacrifice a lot of social life to achieve in each to succeed at the highest level in each.
There certainly are some students who compromise on the academic side when they can. There are some who compromise on the baseball side. There are some who compromise on both.

Terk7 - My son just finished his senior year playing baseball at Stanford. I think he saw it as the greatest opportunity and experience of his life to date.

But to your question. I really have no idea where the data is to answer your questions with certainty. But I will give you 3 tidbits of information that are well-published for Stanford in particular.

1. Stanford baseball players graduate within the allotted NCAA APR guidelines, on average, in the 90% range...they typically rank in the top-5 or so nationally...despite losing 3-7 juniors nearly every year to the draft. Coach Marquess does an excellent job of getting the kids very near to graduation within 3 years.

2. At this past year's CWS, they were announced as having the top-team GPA. I don't remember the exact number.

3. One of this site's other posters (from time-to-time) had a son who played 4 years at Stanford, lettered in 3 of them, and was recognized at the CWS this year for his 3.92 GPA in Computer Science/Applied Mathematics.

It is tough for an athlete, no doubt about it, but as a private school they are not interested in weeding out anyone. Its also relatively small (around 1200 undergrads per graduating class) and the students get to know most of their professors personally. Competition in the classroom is stiff, but the kids they admit are fully capable and the coaches supportive.

I would talk about other schools if I knew more about them...but this was our experience. Hope it helps.

P.S. Obviously infielddad and I were typing at the same time. Agree with his post as well.

This is a great thread, indeed, and I think it can apply at any college, not just the Stanfords of the world. My son WAS majoring in something that was considered "easy," an a major in which many of his teammates were in. Last year was miserable for him...easy classes (other than accounting)...but no love. Just yesterday, 4 days into his junior year, he changed majors to something he will enjoy. A harder major, yes, but one he has PASSION about. In dealing with college athletes, and as a college professor, I think the student must have PASSION in what they study, and in what they play, or it will have the potential to be an unpleasant experience. Yes, many will major in "eligibility," but many of those are their for the sports and not the academics. My son was one of those, until yesterday. This morning he talked to me with more excitement about what he actually READ in a textbook than he has said in 2 previous years.

Hope I did not wander too far off the mark, but my advice would be for a student-athlete to major in something like enjoy, not something that will be easy. If they have something they enjoy, it will become EASIER than the cake major because of the joy of learning.

Terk7,

This may or may not help you and as you stated every person and situation is different. Also, I think it's great your son realizes that it's education first and athletics second.

In our case, my son wanted to go to either Texas or Texas A&M for a great education. He also wanted to play baseball after high school. The education part was not a problem has he was the Valedictorian of his high school and did well both on his SAT and ACT. Now the next question was, is he talented enough to (A) play at the next level and (B) at the Texas and A&M level.
Well, the Fall of his Senior year (2007 grad) he hooked up with what many consider a top travel program (DBAT) and made us think maybe he could play at the next level. As the Fall went on he didn't really get any interest from many big schools, especially the two big ones he was interested in. One day a school called, a school about thirty minutes from our house and a school that was in the Texas Longhorn System. It wasn't Texas but it was a D1 that played Texas, Texas A@M, Oklahoma among others and also had a nationally recognized program in the field that he was pursuing.
He decided to go ahead and sign early because baseball (rightly or wrongly) was his immediate goal and he was able to get a quality education and play ball with a program that played the top competition yearly. As it's worked out, he got meaningful innings his freshman year including relief appearances against both Texas and Texas A&m in which we won both games. Academically it has worked out as well as he finished his freshman year with a 3.93 GPA. For us and our son it has worked out great, but again, every situation is different.

Good luck and have fun, it's a great ride.

IMO, if attending college never compromise your education for baseball.

Most college atheletes hoping to play beyond college do realize very quickly how important that degree is, if not by their freshman year they have chosen a major by their sophomre year.

Mine was undecided for awhile, but knew he wanted to be involved in the sports world or run his own business someday, his major was sports management and he states that he will minor in business and finance when he finally gets around to finishing. He maintained above 3.0 throughout school and it took a lot of hard work to do so.

I am wondering if college baseball had not been in the picture if he would have worked as hard.

TPM,

Then would you say if a student can get into some of the top schools academically but none athletically but chooses a "respectable" school academically to be able to play baseball that is compromising?

Just curious.

Personally, I think you get out of an education what you put into it regardless of the school.

Fast: You took the letters right off my keyboard... You get out of it what you put into it.
I did read how the coaches at Princeton basically make themselves available all day for a lot of small group workouts so guys can attend enrichment lectures and workshops at various times.

quote:

Originally posted by Terk7:
My 2010 son is beginning to weigh his college options. As it concerns the possibility of playing baseball, he has made it very clear that while he would like to play baseball in college, education is more important (i.e., he would not go somewhere just to play college ball).

Fast,
This is what I meant.
The player is concerned that if he went to a more difficult academic program, his grades may suffer if he plays baseball. If baseball players did so well in general, the NCAA would not be so concerned with APR and GPA, right? It's very difficult, and the tougher the baseball program the more difficult it becomes in the classroom. The more difficult the academics, the more difficult baseball becomes.If that is a concern, education being more important than baseball, don't compromise by going to a better baseball school where the course load may be easier. Don't compromise if education is more important than the game. Example, mine did well at school, but if he wished to pursue an engineering degree at Clemson, there is no way he could have kept up with the engineering program and the baseball program demands. In fact, it was highly recommended NOT to pursue certain majors.

I hope that I explained that so you are able to understand. Yes, it is possible to do both, but some majors are a lot more difficult than others and baseball could interfere in more ways than one. It all depends on the goals for the individual and how he is able to handle it.

quote:

Originally posted by kbat2012:
Justbaseball, would you please give me the academic credential needed for a baseball player to play for Stanford? I heard you need SAT over over 1800, and GPA over 3.5 besides being a very good baseball player, is that true?

There isn't any clear answer to that question. See the link below profiling the incoming freshman class.

Stanford 2012 class profile

What does a baseball player need? No easy answer. It depends on what else he brings to the table I believe. Out of California probably easier than from within California (they like national and international diversity). Teacher recommendations, essays, parents attended Stanford?, etc..., etc... All of this is considered.

I've pointed to this book before, but its a good read giving insight (but certainly not the "magic" formula)...written by a former Stanford admissions dean and sold in their bookstore. It has a lengthy chapter (around 80 pages) on the role of athletics in admissions. It is a snapshot of the process at one point in time. See this link:

Questions and Admissions by Jean Fetter

quote:

I only have one good friend's girl admitted to Stanford as a Freshman last year, but she is not an athlete of any kind, she got SAT of 2200, GPA 4.0, and she is a good pianist. With all these credentials, she only got maybe half? scholarship, about 11,000 per year. Her parents will pay the rest. They just moved to Julie's state, MN. They said they have to tap in their life-savings to support her. Wow, it makes us feel really challenged.

Stanford (like Ivy League schools) conducts its admissions process blind to need. They do not offer academic scholarships...but only based on need. It is quite generous at income levels below $100,000 (i.e. zero tuition). See this link:

Financial aid at Stanford

My advice to anyone whose son or daughter wants to compete athletically at Stanford. If the coaches are pursuing you, they think you have a decent chance. Ask them questions. Let them drive whether or not to proceed. They will have the best advice.

Hope this all helps.

quote:

do baseball players at "elite" educational institutions compromise their education by playing baseball?

Good question. My spin has a little different look to it

IMHO baseball can compromise any student-athletes education regardless of institution and unless that student/athlete finds the right academic "fit". If not there's a good chance that education will be compromised.

Stanford and other highly academic rated schools cater to those who can qualify. Johnny who attends State U may be just as challenge at his school as Billy is at Stanford and have the same academic issues. When all is said and done, the sheepskin may not say Stanford, but the quality may be. I'm a firm believer that what you get out of a school corresponds to what you put into it and not necessarily what the school rank is.

Since reality says that baseball may not be the post college career, it's important that the balance of sports and academics is not only identified early but maintained throughout and a good fit in both areas is the ultimate goal.

quote:

Originally posted by kbat2012:
It's still interesting to know, whether if they are going to pursue a Baseball standout at any academic standard. What's the minimum requirements?

Again, there's no single answer to that question. I don't know how else to say it.

JT,

That is exciting to hear. That your son actually discussed a book. And he has chosen a harder major. Sounds like he has matured a lot in the last couple years.I wish him the best.
I think this thread is interesting and is the exact opposite of another one posted today whos son wants to play baseball while this thread the son wants the education stronger.
Every one of our sons are different. I think these boys who go to Stanford and get good grades and play a sport are amazing.
My son couldnt get into those types of academic schools. He still needs to mature and figure some things out. He is at a JC and many people thought we were crazy to let him go there. he had a 3.6 and good SATS but he is happy and thats the bottom line for us. Is it a good fit academically? Some boys are ready for more than others. They are all so different and that is why the FIT is so important.
whats good for one is not good for another.
Going through the process can be very stressful and confusing. Best of luck to all of these boys , and hopefully they all end up with college degrees from somewhere.

quote:

This is a great thread.

Justbaseball, would you please give me the academic credential needed for a baseball player to play for Stanford? I heard you need SAT over over 1800, and GPA over 3.5 besides being a very good baseball player, is that true?

Here is good rule sports adds 100 point to the SAT and about 5-10 points to the GPA. The hard part is getting in. All schools will give you a break depending on how bad the coach pushes for you..

In the Ivies they use an Academic index and balance this by the entire recruiting class.

What’s does this mean?

The coach can bring in a kid that does not meet the average for the recruiting class if he puts another kid on the list that can help to raise the recruiting class average.

Academic index
http://home.comcast.net/~charles517/ivyai.html

Folks that go to school "just to play" fill-in-the-blank usually end up not playing much or not for very long at that school. It just does not work that way.

Dad04,

Basically if the player doesnt do the work at any level, JC beyond hes not going to be playing baseball. I just commened the boys that can attend schools like Stanford, Yale Harvard and play a sport and then get a science degree. Thats not your avg. student athlete.My son coulnt of got into those schools and played and handle the work load. Doesnt mean hes not a good student hes just not that caliber of student. Wee all different and again I really commend the boys that can play and get into those types of schools.

I certainly agree. Playing an intercollegiate sport and obtaining a degree is an accomplishment for each student athlete, wherever they play and attend class. The commitment required to accomplish either is significant. To do it concurrently is special, imo.

quote:

The coach can bring in a kid that does not meet the average for the recruiting class if he puts another kid on the list that can help to raise the recruiting class average.

Very probably a very astute observation!

Again, this is why you let the coach drive the process. If he continues to recruit your son, he obviously thinks he has a chance.

I am reading my last post and had two spelling errors.Type too fast. I have myself returned to school to finish my bachelors in nursing.Wow it is hard. Lots of reading, writing, way more of a jump over the lower division classes.
Best of luck to all of our boys this year wherever they are at in college. MAy they all work hard, play hard and learn some good life lessons as well that have nothing to do with baseball or academics.