Has anyone had an experience with ulnar nerve problems in the elbow? My son is having trouble with it. He goes to see Dr. Conway in Ft. Worth next week. I was just checking to see what we might encounter.
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
My son had reoccurring problems with the UCL. We saw a doctor that determined that their was no permanent damage, it had basically been over streched. This pain was a suprise to me since I monitored pitch count religiously and he had pretty good mechanics. The doctor thought he was simply throwing harder than his body was capable of handling. We gave him the summer off with no throwing, but the problem emerged again the following baseball season.
What I eventually found out was that at the point of ball release my son was rotating his wrist to the side. Essentially, every single throw from warm up to fast ball was being thrown like a slider. We all know how bad sliders are for a young arm.
I have figured that if you put black electrical tape in a line around a ball so that if your son throws a two seam fast ball it should stay in a nearly perfect line as it travells through the air toward you-if his arm/wrist action is correct. If his arm/wrist action is incorrect the line will blur as the ball fly's toward you. The line represents proper release/spin or not. My son found it nearly impossible to get the line on the ball not to blur while other kids that never had elbow problems lined it up effortlessly. I eventually came up with a method to fix this problem and my son usually warms up with the line ball now as a precaution. He hasn't had elbow problems since we corrected the problem two year ago.
If you determine that this is your sons problem let me know and I will tell you how I got this stubborn problem corrected.
What I eventually found out was that at the point of ball release my son was rotating his wrist to the side. Essentially, every single throw from warm up to fast ball was being thrown like a slider. We all know how bad sliders are for a young arm.
I have figured that if you put black electrical tape in a line around a ball so that if your son throws a two seam fast ball it should stay in a nearly perfect line as it travells through the air toward you-if his arm/wrist action is correct. If his arm/wrist action is incorrect the line will blur as the ball fly's toward you. The line represents proper release/spin or not. My son found it nearly impossible to get the line on the ball not to blur while other kids that never had elbow problems lined it up effortlessly. I eventually came up with a method to fix this problem and my son usually warms up with the line ball now as a precaution. He hasn't had elbow problems since we corrected the problem two year ago.
If you determine that this is your sons problem let me know and I will tell you how I got this stubborn problem corrected.
this is one of the better sports medicine websites.
The URL below will take you directly to the Ulnar Nerve Rehab info and rehab program.
http://sportsmedicine.upmc.com/InjuriesUlnarNerveRehab.htm
The URL below will take you directly to the Ulnar Nerve Rehab info and rehab program.
http://sportsmedicine.upmc.com/InjuriesUlnarNerveRehab.htm
I have young players that have the slider spin on the ball and have ways to correct the release in order to reduce the risk of injury to a young arm but, I am always interested in hearing how other coaches were able to help resolve this. Please let me know what you have done with your son, I am curios.
I have 2 young "slider spinners" myself (10 yo, 7 yo) and would be interested in fixes also. I like the black tape idea, but it will still require the kid to "figure it out for himself" to a certain extent. Any suggestions are appreciated.
I have heard that neccesity is the mother of invention or something like that. And shear fustration and determination had me desparate for a solution. What worked for us was a bit unconventional. I went down to the hardware store plumbing section and bought a round black plastic disk. I think it is intended for spacing toilets up from the floor or something. The disk was about 3 inches in diameter with a 1.5 inch flat surface on the outer edge. I put a tennis ball in the middle hole to give the disc some weight and balance.
We basically played catch at a short distance with the disc. He layed his two fingers on the flat outer surface which made the proper release feel more natural. Rolling the wrist to the side felt weird with the disc. I think a round baseball may made rolling your wrist to the side feel natural for him. About five days a week, for about a month we would play catch with the disc (about 50 throws) and follow with about 50 throws of the line ball. We slowly worked up to longer distances. I found longer distances tended to bring out a poor release until allot of muscle memory had been created.
I don't know that this will work for everyone, but it worked for my son.
We basically played catch at a short distance with the disc. He layed his two fingers on the flat outer surface which made the proper release feel more natural. Rolling the wrist to the side felt weird with the disc. I think a round baseball may made rolling your wrist to the side feel natural for him. About five days a week, for about a month we would play catch with the disc (about 50 throws) and follow with about 50 throws of the line ball. We slowly worked up to longer distances. I found longer distances tended to bring out a poor release until allot of muscle memory had been created.
I don't know that this will work for everyone, but it worked for my son.
You can also use a chewing tobacco tin or a hockey puck.
Very creative, I used the lined ball and so far have the player place his index finger along the line, I use a tennis ball for younger players with smaller hands. I have them focus on using this finger only to point to the sky as they bring it forward to the release point, even the smallest change left or right shows the player the balls rotation. I take it the disk wobbles noticeably like the line would but easier to see due to the height difference from the tennis ball.
No two arms alike--- ever--- see your doctor as you intend to--- dont worry about what others have done--- each arm reacts differently and the therapy and methods can be different
You are very correct TR. See the Doctor and follow his instructions, These other posts are for working to correct a release point on a kid not fix an elbow. Sorry if the two messages got mixed.
Can someone tell me what I'm describing:
When I stand in the anatomical posistion, there is a ligament type cord that runs down the medial side of my elbow, in between the tip of the elbow and the ball/bump on the medial side of the elbow. What is that? I guess you could call it the funny bone.
A lot of times when I throw, I feel numbness in this nerve/ligament or whatever it is. Should I be real concerned about it, see a doctor? I usually stop throwing when I get it, but I always seem to get a numbing pain in it whenever I warm up and occasionly during games.
When I stand in the anatomical posistion, there is a ligament type cord that runs down the medial side of my elbow, in between the tip of the elbow and the ball/bump on the medial side of the elbow. What is that? I guess you could call it the funny bone.
A lot of times when I throw, I feel numbness in this nerve/ligament or whatever it is. Should I be real concerned about it, see a doctor? I usually stop throwing when I get it, but I always seem to get a numbing pain in it whenever I warm up and occasionly during games.
micdsguy -
Numbing pain is not a normal sensation ... not before, during or after pitching. Have it checked out as soon as you can.
Numbing pain is not a normal sensation ... not before, during or after pitching. Have it checked out as soon as you can.
My son had Tommy John surgery last July after the end of his high school senior season. We had been told by the training staff who takes care of area high school teams that he had the worst case of tendonitis they had ever seen. Son kept trying to pitch through the pain. Some days the pain was less than others. Bottom line. Son couldn't pitch in the state tournament. I knew it had to be more than "tendonitis" to keep him from an experience like that. We set up an appointment with an orthopedic surgeon. They operated on him and his UCL was torn completely in two. The surgeon said it was frayed on the end like the end of a rope. My advice to you is to RUN not walk to a specialist who can diagnose the problem. It could be nothing OR it could be much worse. By continuing to throw you are only making the problem (if there is one) worse.
Fortunately, son has some of the best trainers in the nation (in my book) and he is already pitching in scrimmages. D1 by the way. I regret not taking him to an orthopedist much earlier. This could have cost him his college experience and possibly a career.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Fortunately, son has some of the best trainers in the nation (in my book) and he is already pitching in scrimmages. D1 by the way. I regret not taking him to an orthopedist much earlier. This could have cost him his college experience and possibly a career.
Just my 2 cents worth.
quote:Originally posted by HotCornerDad:
I have young players that have the slider spin on the ball and have ways to correct the release in order to reduce the risk of injury to a young arm but, I am always interested in hearing how other coaches were able to help resolve this. Please let me know what you have done with your son, I am curios.
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Usually this caused by the way the ball is being held, and subsequentrly effects the release.
Where to start.
Check the grip of the fingers in relationship to the thumb.
Usually a "spinner" is thrown because the ball is being held with the middle finger and the thumb. The index finger is lazily lying on the ball. There are two ways to hold a 4-seamer. The best way to hold it for young kids is with the fingers across the "big smile" spread apart at the top of the ball in a "V" formation, and the thumb directly underneath. This assures that the ball is stabilized in the hand. However the same caution must be used in that the index finger cannot be allowed to lay on top of the ball and not used as intended to guide the ball to the target. If the index finger is not used to guide the ball it will be thrown with the thumb and the middle finger which automatically will create a curve, or slider effect.
How to fix...
Make sure that the thumb is offset beneath the ball so that the ball can only be released off the middle finger side closest to the ring finger to give the ball kind of a "screwball" effect. This will force the release to be more on top of the ball.
Pronation...
The normal release of a throw is with the hand turned inside, so that the thumb is turned down instead of up as it is ending up with your player throwing a "spinner".
So with a towel have your player practice the release so that he is using his hand so that he pulls the towel so that his "thumb ends up pointing down toward the floor.
When you play catch with him make sure you remind him on every throw to point his thumb down through the release.
left foot
Make sure the left foot is not hitting heel first. This jolts the body and causes the body to lose its momentum in the upper torso. As it reverberates throughout the body it acts as a brake to the throwing arm and truncates the throw so that it flattens out.
In stead of the throw continuing through to the 12 to 6 plane it flattens out to the 2 to 8 plane and creates the additional strain of allowing the hand to fall off the ball. This can also create the "spinner" effect.
Now there are some pitchers who use these techniques as off speed pitches, but they are not locked into it through bad throwing techniques. The correct way to throw the off speed pitch is by holding the ball deeper in the hand, not bad mechanics.
Folks
My advice with any arm problems is not to advice from websaites-- see a sports/orthopedic doctor--- I do not think there are doctors on any websitethat are giving advice---
IF YOU HAVE ARM PROBLEMS SEE A DOCTOR ASAP !!!!!
My advice with any arm problems is not to advice from websaites-- see a sports/orthopedic doctor--- I do not think there are doctors on any websitethat are giving advice---
IF YOU HAVE ARM PROBLEMS SEE A DOCTOR ASAP !!!!!
TR<hit
Please explain how to correct a natural slider.
Please explain how to correct a natural slider.
Let's move this topic to where it belongs, the coaching of throwing mechanics that is. The advice on arm problems is easy, See your Doctor. TTYL
Hot Corner Dad
I agree with you fully !!!
Did you get my response to your PM?
I agree with you fully !!!
Did you get my response to your PM?
No, I didn't, more weird stuff with the site or, you must throw a wicked curve not only did I not see the PM I can't find it along the back stop. 
PIC is right! This is really a great thread because it is my experience that this is the #1 problem with beginning throwers (kids just starting). I think it is because their hand is so small. I encourge them to use a three 3 finger grip so that they will stay behind the ball. I know I have said some bad things about the Bragg Stockton Skills & Drills video's because they are so boring. However, to his credit, he spends a lot of time and different drills on staying behind the ball. He uses the 2 colored ball (magic markered) as I do.
I play this game with my youngest. We sit across the living room from each other on opposing chairs while we watch T.V. Using a level #1 sponge ball that I colored red on one side seperated by a big black line, we try to hit the ceiling fan chain only using wrist snap with a 2-finger grip. The key is not to see a fluctuating color (slider) or all one color (not staying behind the ball). The goal is to see a half-n-half colored spinning ball headed in your direction.
REPETITION IS THE ONLY CURE FOR THIS PROBLEM!
I play this game with my youngest. We sit across the living room from each other on opposing chairs while we watch T.V. Using a level #1 sponge ball that I colored red on one side seperated by a big black line, we try to hit the ceiling fan chain only using wrist snap with a 2-finger grip. The key is not to see a fluctuating color (slider) or all one color (not staying behind the ball). The goal is to see a half-n-half colored spinning ball headed in your direction.
REPETITION IS THE ONLY CURE FOR THIS PROBLEM!
Thanks for all the advice. We will be going to the dr. next week. I was just looking for recovery times and what to expexct if there was a problem. Thanks again
My eldest son badly strained the long triceps muscle and it took 18 weeks to get his arm back to where it was prior to the injury. Don't know if this will help but, listen to the doctors advice, go slow, rebuild over time. It is OK if he misses an All-Star season. His health is the #1 priority, that's why you are going to the doctor. I wish him and you all the best and a strong recovery.
From the very beginning of posting to these boards I have taken the position against young bou=ys trying to overthrow to feed some coaches or Dads ego that his player or kid can out throw some other kid.
It is dangerous for young arms to be overthrowing above the level that they can absolutely control.
If you love your son do not let a coach or a promoter talk you into having your son overthrow. It can be very result in a very serious damge to his arm.
This is the same fight I had when I was beinging my son along starting in LL. You hve "Rock_n_fire" neantherthals who will push your son to the limits of permanent injury.
It is dangerous for young arms to be overthrowing above the level that they can absolutely control.
If you love your son do not let a coach or a promoter talk you into having your son overthrow. It can be very result in a very serious damge to his arm.
This is the same fight I had when I was beinging my son along starting in LL. You hve "Rock_n_fire" neantherthals who will push your son to the limits of permanent injury.
Who has ever advocated overthrowing beyond the ability of the mechanics to control it?
Nobody!
Nobody!
Article on proliferation of too many breaking balls being the biggest source of elbow problems. Throwing the fb is not the culprit.
http://www.baseballresource.com/hs/2005/jan/pitching.pdf
http://www.baseballresource.com/hs/2005/jan/pitching.pdf
I was reading about UCL tears and they said a symptom of it is a pop in the elbow during a pitch.
Does anyone know if you can still throw even after you hear/feel a pop? About a month or two ago my elbow used to pop, I could feel it pop, but not on every pitch. Usually it was early on in the game and then it wouldn't pop much more after the first few pitches. I just thought it was my elbow bones cracking, like when you do a push up. Would I be able to throw after the popping or would my arm just feel like crud? Also when I last threw a bullpen about 2-3 weeks ago, it didn't pop, just a numbness in the elbow.
I'm going to see a doctor as soon as I can to see if I have any problem. But if any can give me some answers.
Also would it be wise for me to stop playing racketball. I have state and national tournaments coming up, but its not like I'm the best player on the team. I could probably sit out if I wanted and not really hurt the team, but it would be hard to unless it was better for my arm.
Does anyone know if you can still throw even after you hear/feel a pop? About a month or two ago my elbow used to pop, I could feel it pop, but not on every pitch. Usually it was early on in the game and then it wouldn't pop much more after the first few pitches. I just thought it was my elbow bones cracking, like when you do a push up. Would I be able to throw after the popping or would my arm just feel like crud? Also when I last threw a bullpen about 2-3 weeks ago, it didn't pop, just a numbness in the elbow.
I'm going to see a doctor as soon as I can to see if I have any problem. But if any can give me some answers.
Also would it be wise for me to stop playing racketball. I have state and national tournaments coming up, but its not like I'm the best player on the team. I could probably sit out if I wanted and not really hurt the team, but it would be hard to unless it was better for my arm.
Chille, how did the dr appt go?