Skip to main content

9 replies

Endless Balk Questions

C Coach_Bayer10+ posts
Our pitchers got called for 4 balks tonight. Youth (5th, 6th graders), FED Rules:

1. The ump called a balk with no runners on and the pitcher, throwing from the stretch, gets his sign from the catcher, starts to put his hands together, but stops before he brings his hands together and drops his hands again to his side and looks again at the catcher, then puts his hands together and comes set. He never made it to set and with no runners on, is this a balk / illegal pitch? Also, our local rules state a warning to the pitcher for balk calls - would this count as a warning (since technically it wasn't a balk), should it have been a ball, or if a later balk were called, should that have been the warning?

2. From the stretch, with no runners on, the pitcher didn't stop (come set) before pitching to a batter.

3. From the stretch with the bases loaded, the pitcher brings his hands together, but doesn't stop fidgeting with the ball and glove (he was trying to get his curveball grip - did I mention he was 11?). The ump balked him while he was still fidgeting. I claim since he never stopped fidgeting, he hadn't "stopped" or become set. If, once he gets his grip, he doesn't pause before he pitches, I see a balk, but while the pitcher is struggling to get the grip? The ump's explanation was that he could move his hand in the glove, but not the glove - it was the movement of the glove that caused the balk call.

4. In FED, is a balk a dead ball or does the pitch continue? Ump called a balk, pitch continues, called a ball, and everyone moves up a base (on ball 4). I thought the ump called Time on the balk, but I guess he called balk.

5. I'm still confused about what you can do from the stretch with no runners on. I know if you drop the ball while in contact with the rubber and no runners on, it's nothing. What other balk specifications don't apply if there are no runners on?

I am hoping I live long enough to understand the nuances and interpretations of the balk. It is still pretty much a mystery to me as it seems the call is more art than science.
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

T therefump100+ posts
A quick reply (I'm sure you'll get the detailed analysis from this site....they never fail) is that it occurs to me that the pitchers aren't being coached properly.
I'm seeing this all the way down at 8th and 7th grades this year. The kids have no idea of the proper motion to wind-up or set. You can't just hand the kid a baseball and say "go pitch" if you're going to enforce BALK rules and you should.

If you don't coach the kids in pitching and you only warn in balks then you're essentially dumming down the league so that when the kids move up to the next level they're unprepared. Also, it frazzles the kids when you call a balk. Their rhythm suffers.

If you need assistance of helping your kids get an umpire to go over this with your pitchers. Do this at a practice and not right before a game. Most would be more than willing to show what we're looking for. Trust me, at the lower levels esp. we don't want to call balks because a) the pitchers don't do it intentionally (most of the time) and b) THE PARENTS and a lot of COACHES don't know the balk rules.

I'm very happy you're asking for clarification. Keep the questions coming.
piaa_umppiaa_ump5,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Coach_Bayer:
Our pitchers got called for 4 balks tonight. Youth (5th, 6th graders), FED Rules:

I am hoping I live long enough to understand the nuances and interpretations of the balk. It is still pretty much a mystery to me as it seems the call is more art than science.


4 balks in an 10/11 yr old game......smells pretty OOO to me.....

But I have a few concerns anyway....

1. Why are we using Fed Rules for 10/11 yr olds..most youth leagues are OBR....
2. Why are we pitching from the stretch with no runners on base?
3. why are umpires calling balks on rules they dont know....If you cant explain it...dont call it.


regardless.... here we go...

Ok, and this is just my .02.........for this level of game, I am assuming for some reason they want balks called....so I will..........but only the most OBVIOUS and BLATANT balks that could not be missed....and I am tempering this with INTENT to Deceive....

I am not calling a balk with no runners on base period...I am not calling a balk for fidgeting in the glove...

#1 is a balk but with no runners on, Im not calling it...Im going to remind him that if he had a runner on base, I would have to balk him...

#2 technical balk per fed rules, but again Im not calling it...

#3 unless he is shaking his glove like he has palsy, Im not calling it.......a simple comment at the half inning to be more still in the glove should suffice.... if he is fidgeting to get his curveball grip, it wont be long before everyone knows when he is going to throw a curve ball, which at 10/11 he shouldnt be doing anyway.......

#4 if we are really using fed rules....balk call = immediate dead ball...

# 5 in this level game , I have more important things to do......like umpire a kid baseball game..

Isnt 10/11 baseball supposed to be fun? Whose idea was it to mess up a good day at the ball yard by using a rule set that these guys won't use for another 5-6 years?...

You are on the right track Coach Bayer.....its good that you are asking....and you are right calling balks in any baseball level is more art than science.....
Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
Forget about critiquing the coaching of the kids, this umpire needs a little trainging of his own.

One cannot balk with no runners, by defintion. (NHFS 2-3)

In FED, the old philosophy still applies that if an action is illegal in one scenario, it should be illegal in all. But, it is not a balk, it is an illegal pitch.

(See NFHS 6-1 PENALTY and NFHS 6-2-4)
Last edited by Jimmy03
C Coach_Bayer10+ posts
Piaa,

1. I'm in Oregon and our youth organization is Jr Baseball of Oregon. It's about 50 years old and they feel the kids really like to lead off and steal. It is competitive baseball and has a state tournament at the end of the season. The team stays together for the tournament - no all-star teams. At any rate, for some reason, they use FED rules, with a few modifications for age and skill level. (Mostly pitching a base differences, pitching restrictions, and a few rules like warning the first balk call).

2. Pitching from the stretch is the first position learned. A young pitcher will have runners on at some point, so he must learn to throw from the stretch, eventually. Some then also learn the windup, but some are so comfortable in the stretch, they stay there.

3. I agree.

My 2 cents. Curveballs will always be controversial in youth baseball. Most kids try it and I always see it thrown at the LL world series - which are 11 and 12 y.o.. It is effective and if thrown properly doesn't hurt the arm any more than throwing a football or a fastball (Little League published a study to this effect). The problem comes in if they throw it improperly.

Thank you very much for your comments and instruction. The cloud is lifting and I feel like I can see vague shapes in the fog...
T therefump100+ posts
quote:
# 5 in this level game , I have more important things to do......like umpire a kid baseball game..

Isnt 10/11 baseball supposed to be fun? Whose idea was it to mess up a good day at the ball yard by using a rule set that these guys won't use for another 5-6 years?...



BINGO. I knew someone with common sense would reply.

I still stand by my earlier post that if BALKS are being called as often as you said at this level then you coaches need to spend more time with the pitchers.......and the league officials on getting the umpires to back off. 'nuf said on my part.
Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by therefump:
quote:
# 5 in this level game , I have more important things to do......like umpire a kid baseball game..

Isnt 10/11 baseball supposed to be fun? Whose idea was it to mess up a good day at the ball yard by using a rule set that these guys won't use for another 5-6 years?...



BINGO. I knew someone with common sense would reply.

I still stand by my earlier post that if BALKS are being called as often as you said at this level then you coaches need to spend more time with the pitchers.......and the league officials on getting the umpires to back off. 'nuf said on my part.


My point is the umpires are calling somethings balks, that ARE NOT balks. Coaching kids and backing off the umpires are not going to help. The umpires need an education.
JMoffJMoff1,000+ posts
Sounds like a guy who likes to call balks, jeez.

When I coached young kids learning to pitch for the first time, I'd frequently put kids into the stretch to help with their ability to repeat their delivery.

In the wind up, there are many moving parts & opportunities for a young body to get out of control with pace and balance. At the leg lift in the stretch is where a pitcher from the wind up should be when he gets to the same point in his delivery. The problem is, some of them are too inconsistant in the pace or consistency in the wind up to 'hit' that balance point. They aren't balanced, their arm is early or late, etc.

Starting in the stretch at least gives them a chance to start off balanced. Once they can repeat the last half of the delivery, then they can work on the wind up and have the muscle memory to know what it feels like to be balanced and on the correct pace.

Balks with nobody on??? Jeez...

Probably explains why isn't out on the big field.

Add Reply

Post
.

Membership Required

We're sorry. You must be signed in to continue. Sign In or Register
×
Are you sure you want to remove from your Block List?
×
Loading...
×
When you block a person, they can no longer invite you to a private message or post to your profile wall. Replies and comments they make will be collapsed/hidden by default. Finally, you'll never receive email notifications about content they create or likes they designate for your content.
Note: if you proceed, you will no longer be following .
×
Advanced Search
Advanced Search
Link copied to your clipboard.
×