Equipment Question - Baseballs

I wouldn't use the $33.95 balls lol.  Opposing coaches won't be happy.  Unfortunately good baseballs have gotten expensive.  Not a lot you can do about it.  Just put a couple new ones into play each game....and fill in with good used ones.  Nice thing about the good balls is that they are your practice balls for next winter/spring.  The $33.95 balls will be mush before this spring is over

Buckeye 2015 posted:

I wouldn't use the $33.95 balls lol.  Opposing coaches won't be happy.  Unfortunately good baseballs have gotten expensive.  Not a lot you can do about it.  Just put a couple new ones into play each game....and fill in with good used ones.  Nice thing about the good balls is that they are your practice balls for next winter/spring.  The $33.95 balls will be mush before this spring is over

Wait...I am supposed to be concerned with the emotional state of opposing coaches?  lol

I do get the idea of used game balls filling in my reserve practice balls, I was not happy after our first game and I asked my catcher where the game balls were after practice and he told me the ump kept them...WTH.  Good news is he was the ump for our next home game and he actually brought them back to me and apologized because he forgot to give them to me?

Funny story.  Back in LL 10 years ago you and your opponent provided balls for District playoffs (off an approved list. 

We had about 4 really good pitchers, and I had each one of them pick out which balls (seams) they liked the best. 

On the day that we planned to utilize 2 of those specific pitchers, we presented 4 balls to the umps (2 of each kids).......opposing coaches would bring their game balls also.  During a game our pitchers always "asked" for a new ball until they got one of theirs.  Don't know if it helped or not, but mentally it helped our pitcher, and it bothered the other team and coach.   

Baseballs definitely come in a wide variety of quality levels.  Also, different areas have different requirements for game balls.  Generally, you are going to pay about $60/doz+ for decent gamers.  The trick is finding a decent practice ball that plays and holds up fairly well and reasonably similar to the gamers you use.  To add to the confusion, most brands have multiple choices with model numbers that are very similar, even though the quality of the cover and core are totally different.  Trial and error.  Word of mouth.

We have tried some "house brand" practice balls and they went soft very quickly, negating any savings at the front end.  We usually go with something like the Diamond DOL-1 NFHS ball as a practice ball and JV gamer.  Mid price at about $40-42/dz, plays decent, holds up decent, can be used in a game in a pinch (when you come up short on your good ones) and you never have to worry about whether your baseballs are game-approved or not.  

You can get to learn balls by seeing the inside of the core and feeling the cover.  One of the sites shows a cross-section of each ball, I forget at the moment.  But the simple answer is quality goes up with price.  You also have to be aware of seams.  Raised seam vs flat seam and even then, some raised seam are quite a bit more raised than others.

when I was coaching junior high, all the league teams agreed to use one of 5 or 6 different balls.  We were very good, with some big hitters.  We were playing one of the weaker teams at their place.  Our first 3 guys all hit weak balls around the IF.  My son was pitching.  He went to the mound for the bottom of the 1st...ump threw him a ball and he just started laughing on the mound.  Ump went to check why.  They were using $1.99 Walmart balls....and the one he had in his hand was soft enough he could dent it with his fingers.  Kind of explained our 3 weak grounders in the top of the inning.    Opposing coach tried to play it off as a "mistake", but all 4 of the new ball were the same lol.  Needless to say we gave them some good balls to use for the rest of the game.  We won by some ridiculous score.  First and only time I really allowed our guys to run up the score in a game....lol 

Okay, just changed my purchase request for a better ball than the House brand. I’m not really concerned with holding hitters, whoever built our field must have expected major leaguers coming. Someone should gave also also told them the diamond is the base paths not the actual footprint of the field, so yes, dead center is right at 440’, better at the corners but still pretty deep for Varsity baseball. 

Kind of a stupid question (but that is how this post started) - what is the best way to clean up a game ball once it has been beat up a little?  Wet towel?  Handful of dry sand?  Bare palms?

Not sure how y'all do it, but we write in the district policies what type of game ball we have to use, so you may want to check and make sure that's not an issue for you.

OB1 posted:

Okay, just changed my purchase request for a better ball than the House brand. I’m not really concerned with holding hitters, whoever built our field must have expected major leaguers coming. Someone should gave also also told them the diamond is the base paths not the actual footprint of the field, so yes, dead center is right at 440’, better at the corners but still pretty deep for Varsity baseball. 

 

 

I think your range finder must be picking up the trees.  Measuring from your pic, your CF fence is right at 400, maybe 405.   Still plenty deep for HS, but not ridiculous lol

OB1 posted:

Okay, just changed my purchase request for a better ball than the House brand. I’m not really concerned with holding hitters, whoever built our field must have expected major leaguers coming. Someone should gave also also told them the diamond is the base paths not the actual footprint of the field, so yes, dead center is right at 440’, better at the corners but still pretty deep for Varsity baseball. 

 

Is this the field you fixed up over the winter? If so, great job!

2022NYC, that’s from Google maps probably from last summer. Field is not in too bad of shape really, just should have been overseeded for spring play. We’ve worked out butts off this year though so it actually looks better than that, just waiting for Bermuda to come alive. 

My church is installing a double bull pen mound Saturday and next year I plan on getting a new outfield fence and round off the outfield some. Hoping I can put a student section in left field and get the district to put in a press box behind the backstop. 

If they are genuine leather balls, they're fine for practice.  You will want a dozen NFHS balls for your pitchers to use for bullpens though.  And who says Baseball has to be a non-revenue sport?  Your team can fund raise.  We sell chocolate, minor league tickets, baseball shirts, baseball uniforms (to all students/teachers), food/chips/soda/hot cocoa at games, and the opportunity to sing the national anthem and throw out the first pitch.  

hsbaseball101 posted:

 and the opportunity to sing the national anthem and throw out the first pitch.  

As long as it brings in $$$$ lol.  I see the potential for a lot of people waiting to show up just as the 1st inning starts lol

hsbaseball101 posted:

If they are genuine leather balls, they're fine for practice.  You will want a dozen NFHS balls for your pitchers to use for bullpens though.  And who says Baseball has to be a non-revenue sport?  Your team can fund raise.  We sell chocolate, minor league tickets, baseball shirts, baseball uniforms (to all students/teachers), food/chips/soda/hot cocoa at games, and the opportunity to sing the national anthem and throw out the first pitch.  

Yeah.  Find a dad with a business.  Insurance guy, lawyer, mom and pop shop.  It's an easy donation.  

My buddy did everything he could possibly do to donate school logo golf balls to the golf team.  He's a golf nut.  Would have gotten them several years worth of the high end brand, because to him golf balls are fun (an he has more money than god).     Moron coach never got him the artwork for the logo.  

A great practice ball that mimics the Wilson A1010 is the Mark 1 from BSN Sports ( pretty sure it's them).  I've used them in JV games when I was running low on my Wilson or Rawlings baseballs.  You can also get Wilson A1010 as blem balls (blemished) fairly cheap.  It's basically the Wilson A1010 except a print got messed up somehow that you probably won't even notice.

http://www.bestbatdeals.com/be...e_id=66&country=

When I say Non-revenue sport I mean that they sport does not make enough revenue in gate to pay for itself. 

We are a basketball district, everything evolves around basketball.  In our county the 4-5th grade elementary games are packed house, standing room only and more excitement than the Memphis Grizzlies (not hard this season).  Football has just picked up from me starting a Booster Club and helping the coaching staff over the last 4 years.  Soccer has faithful parents that attend and support but all the other sports, including baseball just don't get support.  We may have 10 fans at games.  That is changing this year, amazing what winning does.  Next season I plan on making baseball a school event and see if I can get people to come out to the park, but that is yet to be seen.

NFHS rules state that the game must be played with a minimum of 3 NFHS stamped baseballs. Now every manufacturer offers balls in widely differing price ranges that come with the NFHS stamp.

The rule 1-3-1 states:

1-3-1: The ball shall be a sphere formed by yarn wound around a small core of cork, rubber or similar material and covered with two strips of white horsehide or two strips of white cowhide tightly stitched together. It shall be 5 to 5 ¼ ounces in weight and have a circumference of 9 to 9 ¼ inches. The Coefficient of Restitution (COR) shall not exceed .555.  A minimum of three umpire-approved baseballs shall be provided to start the game. Unless otherwise mutually agreed upon, the home team has this responsibility. No less than two baseballs shall be used to complete the game. The NFHS Authenticating Mark is required on all balls that will be used in high school competition.

Effective January 1, 2019, the ball shall also meet the NOCSAE standard at the time of manufacture and the mark will also be required on all balls.

Manufacturers make balls at all the lines of the spectrum in quality and cost........you can use Diamond Professional Balls at a prime price or an AD Star ball at a deep discount. The quality of manufacture and the materials used are big factors in the cost. Notice the rules do not require the ball to have a wool winding around a cork pill or solid cork center. These factors absolutely affect the performance of the ball.

The rules only require the ball to not EXCEED 5 to 5 ¼ ounces in weight and have a circumference of 9 to 9 ¼ inches. The Coefficient of Restitution (COR) shall not EXCEED .555. The higher quality balls are close or at the maximum allowed factors. Cheaper balls may not even be close.

Now to the thought in my mind..........If they meet the rule, we will use them........for both teams. I know baseballs pretty well, and I can tell by the sound if they are wool wound rubber pill or a cork center. I do look the baseballs over. I look for the required stamps and would notice the manufacturer

Lets discuss this.........

"Why would I not buy a few dozen of each and tell my catcher to just make sure we are pitching with the "Other" ball rather than the Wilson and then we have a 50/50 chance of our opponent pitching with the Wilson A1010 giving us an advantage?"

Because this is cheating.......and against the spirit of fair play......

One of the roles of an Umpire is to officiate the game so that no one team gains any advantage not in according to the rules. So...... After discovery, I would eject the Head Coach, Pitcher and Catcher under rule 3-3-1f. Under my state rules, these ejections have to be reported to the state body within 24 hours.......

Use any acceptable ball......for both teams........its not worth trying to game the system

piaa_ump posted:

NFHS rules state that the game must be played with a minimum of 3 NFHS stamped baseballs. Now every manufacturer offers balls in widely differing price ranges that come with the NFHS stamp.

The rule 1-3-1 states:

1-3-1: The ball shall be a sphere formed by yarn wound around a small core of cork, rubber or similar material and covered with two strips of white horsehide or two strips of white cowhide tightly stitched together. It shall be 5 to 5 ¼ ounces in weight and have a circumference of 9 to 9 ¼ inches. The Coefficient of Restitution (COR) shall not exceed .555.  A minimum of three umpire-approved baseballs shall be provided to start the game. Unless otherwise mutually agreed upon, the home team has this responsibility. No less than two baseballs shall be used to complete the game. The NFHS Authenticating Mark is required on all balls that will be used in high school competition.

Effective January 1, 2019, the ball shall also meet the NOCSAE standard at the time of manufacture and the mark will also be required on all balls.

Manufacturers make balls at all the lines of the spectrum in quality and cost........you can use Diamond Professional Balls at a prime price or an AD Star ball at a deep discount. The quality of manufacture and the materials used are big factors in the cost. Notice the rules do not require the ball to have a wool winding around a cork pill or solid cork center. These factors absolutely affect the performance of the ball.

The rules only require the ball to not EXCEED 5 to 5 ¼ ounces in weight and have a circumference of 9 to 9 ¼ inches. The Coefficient of Restitution (COR) shall not EXCEED .555. The higher quality balls are close or at the maximum allowed factors. Cheaper balls may not even be close.

Now to the thought in my mind..........If they meet the rule, we will use them........for both teams. I know baseballs pretty well, and I can tell by the sound if they are wool wound rubber pill or a cork center. I do look the baseballs over. I look for the required stamps and would notice the manufacturer

Lets discuss this.........

"Why would I not buy a few dozen of each and tell my catcher to just make sure we are pitching with the "Other" ball rather than the Wilson and then we have a 50/50 chance of our opponent pitching with the Wilson A1010 giving us an advantage?"

Because this is cheating.......and against the spirit of fair play......

One of the roles of an Umpire is to officiate the game so that no one team gains any advantage not in according to the rules. So...... After discovery, I would eject the Head Coach, Pitcher and Catcher under rule 3-3-1f. Under my state rules, these ejections have to be reported to the state body within 24 hours.......

Use any acceptable ball......for both teams........its not worth trying to game the system

 

Please let me clarify, I am NOT a shady character and definitely would not do this, it was really a hypothetical question of what stops a team from doing something of that nature. 

Our AD bought us Champro practice balls for, well, practice and I can definitely tell a distinct difference in even hitting those balls, let along how horribly they hold up. 

Our AD bought us Champro practice balls for, well, practice and I can definitely tell a distinct difference in even hitting those balls, let along how horribly they hold up. 

Champro....wow, they are still selling baseballs?  I had a sporting goods store for quite a while.  Champro was ok for equipment....bases, catchers gear for younger ages, etc, but their baseballs were by far the worst I ever saw.   Even their best practice ball was good for no more than about 6 hits before it had a noticible dent or worse was more the shape of an egg than a baseball lol

"Effective January 1, 2019, the ball shall also meet the NOCSAE standard at the time of manufacture and the mark will also be required on all balls."

Do current baseballs (for instance the Wilson A1010 currently include the NOCSAE stamp?  I was thinking if a coach ran across a good deal, perhaps he should stock up if the cash is available.  That said, are most NFHS baseballs being sold today going to be ineligible for play starting next season?  Should coaches work to limit purchases on non-complying 2019 balls (one might assume there could be some decent sales later in the summer on some NFHS balls missing the NOCSAE stamp).

2017LHPscrewball posted:

"Effective January 1, 2019, the ball shall also meet the NOCSAE standard at the time of manufacture and the mark will also be required on all balls."

Do current baseballs (for instance the Wilson A1010 currently include the NOCSAE stamp?  I was thinking if a coach ran across a good deal, perhaps he should stock up if the cash is available.  That said, are most NFHS baseballs being sold today going to be ineligible for play starting next season?  Should coaches work to limit purchases on non-complying 2019 balls (one might assume there could be some decent sales later in the summer on some NFHS balls missing the NOCSAE stamp).

Very good question, I just ordered 6 dozen which should get us well through this year but those would be really good practice balls with that being the case for next season. 

The catchers equipment and batting helmets all have to have that stamp next year as well don't they, or something pertaining to concussion testing?

2017LHPscrewball posted:

"Effective January 1, 2019, the ball shall also meet the NOCSAE standard at the time of manufacture and the mark will also be required on all balls."

Do current baseballs (for instance the Wilson A1010 currently include the NOCSAE stamp?  I was thinking if a coach ran across a good deal, perhaps he should stock up if the cash is available.  That said, are most NFHS baseballs being sold today going to be ineligible for play starting next season?  Should coaches work to limit purchases on non-complying 2019 balls (one might assume there could be some decent sales later in the summer on some NFHS balls missing the NOCSAE stamp).

Current NFHS baseballs DO NOT include the NOCSAE stamp.  Current NFHS baseballs by rule will not be acceptable in the 2019 season.  

It is understood that the reason this rule was announced this year (2018) with the actual implementation (2019) was to allow the manufacturers time to include the NOCSAE testing in the manufacturing process and allow HS teams to deplete their stocks of then ineligible baseballs.     

Buckeye 2015 posted:

Our AD bought us Champro practice balls for, well, practice and I can definitely tell a distinct difference in even hitting those balls, let along how horribly they hold up. 

Champro....wow, they are still selling baseballs?  I had a sporting goods store for quite a while.  Champro was ok for equipment....bases, catchers gear for younger ages, etc, but their baseballs were by far the worst I ever saw.   Even their best practice ball was good for no more than about 6 hits before it had a noticible dent or worse was more the shape of an egg than a baseball lol

Yes, Champro has historically been a budget/price point brand with relatively low quality and that has certainly included baseballs.  However, again, you can find diamonds in the rough.  A while back, they made a run at entering the high end baseball market.  A few models were quite good.  And since they were not able to gain any significant traction in the performance ball market, there were closeouts.  For two years, I was able to get a professional grade baseball from them at the price of a moderate practice ball.  Best practice ball we ever had by far.  Like I said before, if you get educated on cores and covers and get a feel for "the feel", you can shop smart with baseballs.

Conversely, Diamond was always known for a quality practice and moderately priced game ball.  But, for a 2-3 year period, they changed the cover on one of their most popular practice balls,  It was way too slick.  First time I grabbed a new one, I knew it was time for change.

We're using Champro NFHS balls this year which have higher seams than the Rawlings.  We haven't had a home game yet so I don't know how they perform but we'll see soon.  I don't like the Rawlings because after one game they look just like a Diamond practice ball.  

Buckeye 2015 posted:

hsbaseball101 posted:

 and the opportunity to sing the national anthem and throw out the first pitch.  

As long as it brings in $$$$ lol.  I see the potential for a lot of people waiting to show up just as the 1st inning starts lol

It's always visitors who enjoy it the most.  

Jeez, and here I was thinking they added the NOCSAE thing for 2019 because the baseball ball vendors wanted to generate more revenue now that the baseball bat vendors have siphoned $$$'s from the parents . Years ago when I ran our local CR league - the Treasurer and I went to our equipment supplier and asked the simple question about price of balls - it was 2 hours before we could get the owner to stop talking about all the variables. We came away more confused than we entered.  Personally, I liked the Diamond product and really disliked the Wilson product. I figured Wilson must have been providing money up the chain somewhere because the National would "require" usage of the Wilson product when you brought balls to tournament play. Could have changed since I was involved - but the moral of the story is - follow the money trail. The "official equipment supplier of" is a nice way to say we got a buttload of money from some company and in turn they need to make it back off the backs of you all, so you must buy their product.

JohnF posted:

Jeez, and here I was thinking they added the NOCSAE thing for 2019 because the baseball ball vendors wanted to generate more revenue now that the baseball bat vendors have siphoned $$$'s from the parents . Years ago when I ran our local CR league - the Treasurer and I went to our equipment supplier and asked the simple question about price of balls - it was 2 hours before we could get the owner to stop talking about all the variables. We came away more confused than we entered.  Personally, I liked the Diamond product and really disliked the Wilson product. I figured Wilson must have been providing money up the chain somewhere because the National would "require" usage of the Wilson product when you brought balls to tournament play. Could have changed since I was involved - but the moral of the story is - follow the money trail. The "official equipment supplier of" is a nice way to say we got a buttload of money from some company and in turn they need to make it back off the backs of you all, so you must buy their product.

THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^

It's all about the money.  I remember when I started 20 years ago you could get a dozen ball for about $35 and it didn't matter about practice or game ball.  They were cheap enough they were the same.  When I was in KY we switched to the Rawlings R200 (maybe R100 - can't remember now) because it was the official ball of the KHSAA.  Take a wild guess which ball was $10 - $15 more than the Wilson A1010.  Now a dozen Wilson A1010 is about $65 and it will soon need every stamp under the sun.  Already has to have the NFHS stamp, next year has to have NOCSAE on it and in NC it has to have the NCHSAA stamp.  Baseballs are turning into NASCAR racing cars.  I guarantee the price of a dozen will be up to $75 - $80 next year from all the stamps.  I wonder if I can get the local grocery store to give us a few thousand dollars and we put their stamp on the ball?