Error on Pick-off Play

No error.

I agree. No advance, no error.

I've got no error.

quote:

Ball beats the runner, but the throw is head high while F4 goes down to his knees to block runner.

I agree that there cannot be an error if the runner doesn't advance but I have a different question.

Couldn't F4 be charged with obstruction for trying to block the runner??

Don't know about the obstruction, but you could make an argument for the error, if for example R2 was going to be obviously out with a routine catch and tag. No advancement necessary, just an ordinary effort play to make the out, like he was frozen by the PO move and only after the throw went by did he make it back.

In this case, head high, ball beat him, but F4 would have to make a catch and tag from head to leg, not an error (of course I didn't see it).

Well, if going down to block the runner isn't obstruction, then why not just have the SS stand between the base and the runner when he leads off and then pick him off? I'm sure that the defensive team will argue he was just fielding the throw but in this case it's obvious (as obvious as it can be when I haven't actually seen the play) that the 2B going down on his knees is just to block, not field, since the throw was high.

I still think it isn't an error. As the SK you can never assume he would have been tagged...just my opinion, I don't want to play umpire and scorekeeper ....Also, I prefer not to have a bunch of 'cheap' errors (where no one advances) in my boxscore so I never mark errors on dropped throws where no one advances (this often happens on pick offs to first)and even missed foul balls unless the fielder is camped under it and just flat drops it...

It may be obstruction.
FED 2-23-3. Definition of obstruction. Article 3. The fielder without possession of the ball denies access to the base the runner is attempting to achieve.

If the fielder kneels on the base, then access is still permitted. If he kneels such that no part of the base is available to an extension of the runner's basepath, then it is obstruction.

Hawk19 - I can't argue with any of what you posted. I would only score that play an error if the baserunner is completely undressed and throw gets wiffed and even then I might not bother assigning an error unless the runner ends up at third.

In terms of obstruction, I'd turn that over to the umpire's forum and let them figure it out. They usually come up with a coherent ruling for every situation. Personally, I haven't read that far into the rule book. In OBR, I'm pretty sure its a no call. In Fed, who knows? They have lots of rules for this kind of stuff, its high school after all...

(off the record now) There were several plays this season where lots of 'stuff' happpened and at the end of it, I just drew a line to the next base. Life is too short to get wrapped around the axle. Other than a few foul pop-ups dropped, I can't think of any plays I scored an error when nobody advanced. (now back on the record and proper rule interpretation)...

I'm one of those guys that 'scores at home', so I've been brought up scoring MLB games under OBR. There is a pretty high standard at that level. I used to get PO'd at the hits assigned in D1 baseball. I frequently would have 2-3 more errors than the scorer at the end of a long game.

Then my daughter started playing softball at age 6 and I scored those games, how can you not give a little girl a hit when she puts it in play?

I tend to be tough, but I'm more parochial & rule driven on this site than I am in person... It's all about what you see and at what level you see it.

When someone asks about a rule, I either know it or look it up, but feel obligated to give the most accurate answer I can, even if it over does it.

Thanks for your comments, I really enjoy these discussions.