wahoos80 - Sounds like you put thought into the decision and went with what you thought was best. That's about all you can hope for as there really is no single formula for success. Kids move forward from a number of different paths. Probably the only common thread is that they all work their tails off to get there... (and have parents who root them on)
Best of luck to your son!
PG,
First of all, great to hear from you. I haven't seen you hanging around here much lately. I was afraid you'd forsaken us for the new PG HS web board.
But as to nomenclature, I always discourage the use of the term "showcase team." I prefer "exposure team."
For one thing, calling a travel team a "showcase team" only feeds the confusion between the respective roles of showcases as one exposure venue, and team competition tournaments as a different type of exposure venue. I may be fighting a lonely battle here, but I think referring to teams like the Canes as "showcase teams" helps fuel the kind of parent confusion that we all have to work to dispel one family at a time later on.
I do distinguish between a youth travel team and a high school travel team because I see them as having two different purposes as a player progresses. The younger teams should be what I call "development" teams. That is, when a kid is 15 or younger, the primary purpose should be to teach the "how tos" of the game and game situations. But when you get to ages 16-17, sure there are still teaching points, but for the most part you're taking players who are supposed to be already pretty far along, and trying to shove them under scouts' noses to aid in the recruiting process.
That's why development teams practice and exposure teams frequently do not.
First of all, great to hear from you. I haven't seen you hanging around here much lately. I was afraid you'd forsaken us for the new PG HS web board.
But as to nomenclature, I always discourage the use of the term "showcase team." I prefer "exposure team."
For one thing, calling a travel team a "showcase team" only feeds the confusion between the respective roles of showcases as one exposure venue, and team competition tournaments as a different type of exposure venue. I may be fighting a lonely battle here, but I think referring to teams like the Canes as "showcase teams" helps fuel the kind of parent confusion that we all have to work to dispel one family at a time later on.
I do distinguish between a youth travel team and a high school travel team because I see them as having two different purposes as a player progresses. The younger teams should be what I call "development" teams. That is, when a kid is 15 or younger, the primary purpose should be to teach the "how tos" of the game and game situations. But when you get to ages 16-17, sure there are still teaching points, but for the most part you're taking players who are supposed to be already pretty far along, and trying to shove them under scouts' noses to aid in the recruiting process.
That's why development teams practice and exposure teams frequently do not.
Midlo Dad,
I've been as involved as ever here at HSBBW, just don't often post on the state/regional forums. I Still read what others post on the state forums, especially Virginia.
I just never liked it when teams are labeled "showcase teams". It really does sound like an individual thing. Heck, it's not that hard to pick out the better players (individuals) when they're playing on any team. Why does it have to be a showcase team?
We run showcases for individuals and tournaments for teams. Some of these tournaments provide the most exposure of any, as you know. Yet to me, they are just good teams with good players playing in a tournament. If they didn't care about winning, it might just as well be a showcase. Part of being a good player is the desire to have your team win.
I sometimes wonder if someone started calling themself a "showcase team" because it sounded like a bigger deal to the players and their parents. The best teams don't need to call themselves "Showcase Teams", yet those teams draw the most attention and get the most exposure for their players.
I know it's just words and not very important, but it kind of bothers me for some reason. Probably doesn't bother anyone else.
I've been as involved as ever here at HSBBW, just don't often post on the state/regional forums. I Still read what others post on the state forums, especially Virginia.
I just never liked it when teams are labeled "showcase teams". It really does sound like an individual thing. Heck, it's not that hard to pick out the better players (individuals) when they're playing on any team. Why does it have to be a showcase team?
We run showcases for individuals and tournaments for teams. Some of these tournaments provide the most exposure of any, as you know. Yet to me, they are just good teams with good players playing in a tournament. If they didn't care about winning, it might just as well be a showcase. Part of being a good player is the desire to have your team win.
I sometimes wonder if someone started calling themself a "showcase team" because it sounded like a bigger deal to the players and their parents. The best teams don't need to call themselves "Showcase Teams", yet those teams draw the most attention and get the most exposure for their players.
I know it's just words and not very important, but it kind of bothers me for some reason. Probably doesn't bother anyone else.
I think the Canes could call themselves "Jeff Petty's barnstorming band of baseball bandits" and folks would still show up to see them play. The talent level for teams like the Canes, Cardinals, etc speaks for itself. It doesn't take too long for teams to gain a reptutation (at least among scouts and coaches) for consistently boasting a roster full of top talent. Team's that try to fool people by calling themselves "showcase" teams or whatever will quickly be figured out. Talent talks and BS walks.
My point is that teams can call themselves anything, so that any lines distinguishing travel/showcase baseball have been blurred to the point where neither name means anything. I think that gets back to Midlo's point of calling it an "exposure team". Maybe that would lend some actual meaning to the name. Of course, it wouldn't be too long before every showcase team bacame an exposure team and we're kinda back where we started.
My point is that teams can call themselves anything, so that any lines distinguishing travel/showcase baseball have been blurred to the point where neither name means anything. I think that gets back to Midlo's point of calling it an "exposure team". Maybe that would lend some actual meaning to the name. Of course, it wouldn't be too long before every showcase team bacame an exposure team and we're kinda back where we started.
Well, BB (Basketball, the other BB) has seen the word "showcase" change from "team" to "event" in many parts of the country - the term was so overused that it now no longer generally identifies the caliber/class of team, rather, it more often now identifies events that advertise themselves as featuring coaches/scouts/representatives, as opposed to regular "tournaments"...
I think the whole "showvcase" business has turned baseball into an individual pursuit instead off a team sport as it once was. High School coaches have to work very hard to get kids to u derstand that the game is not about their individual accomplichments but about what the ffi al score is.
how many ti es have we all heard a kid whose team just lost say " I went 3 for 4" instead off concreni g the selves with a loss.
As a result I think college recruiters are having a harder time ffindig the kimd of competitors they need in order to win games that concern themselves witn the success of the team imstead of themselves as individuals. Leadership is getting harder amd harder to find!
how many ti es have we all heard a kid whose team just lost say " I went 3 for 4" instead off concreni g the selves with a loss.
As a result I think college recruiters are having a harder time ffindig the kimd of competitors they need in order to win games that concern themselves witn the success of the team imstead of themselves as individuals. Leadership is getting harder amd harder to find!
I always wanted to call my team The Bingo Long Traveling All Stars.
Who remembers that movie?
Who remembers that movie?
Thank you NOVABALL! We are looking forward to the rest of the HS season and the summer tournaments! Does anyone have any input on how much weight a HS coach should have in selecting a summer team? There are some coaches that seem to prefer to keep their players together locally versus some of their players going with a team that consists of talent from all over the region. It makes sense for the benefit of the HS team as a whole but what about the individual player?
quote:Does anyone have any input on how much weight a HS coach should have in selecting a summer team?
Wahoos80,
Great question. I'm interested to hear what others have to say.
I guess we would consider their input if it was provided or they seek involvement. Previously, we never considered a high school coaches involvement at any point in selecting a summer team. I have a college freshmen and high school sophomore, and I have to admit it never crossed my mind nor did we ever discuss it. My oldest son wanted to play at the highest travel ball levels, and get college exposure. We tried out for a 15U national travel team at the urging of his former travel coach. HS coach had no involvment whatsoever.
quote:Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
I always wanted to call my team The Bingo Long Traveling All Stars.
Who remembers that movie?
Can they play the Motor Kings?
Heh...
I would say that in some cases (certainly not all) the high school coach could have some input just as far as maybe having a relationship with a particular summer coach or maybe having some "insider" info on certain programs. I'm not sure this would be the case very often, but the coach can be a good resource.
However, as far as what team a player chooses to play with, I think that decision is solely up to the player/parents as far as what the best fit for them is athletically/financially etc. In the summer I think the player should do what's best for themselves, even if that's not necessarily the best for the high school team.
However, as far as what team a player chooses to play with, I think that decision is solely up to the player/parents as far as what the best fit for them is athletically/financially etc. In the summer I think the player should do what's best for themselves, even if that's not necessarily the best for the high school team.
i guess with the new VHSL rules HS coaches in some areas can have more involvement outside of tne high school season?
The high school coach should not be involved at all unless his involvement is requested, e.g., if the player asks for advice or if the player or team asks for a reference.
There is a huge potential for abuse when the kid's school coach gets involved. The worst situations are when the HS coach has his own team and the impression gets out there that you'd better be on his team, or else. When the best interests of the player get lost in the coach's effort to build a second income, someone has to step in and put their foot down.
There is a huge potential for abuse when the kid's school coach gets involved. The worst situations are when the HS coach has his own team and the impression gets out there that you'd better be on his team, or else. When the best interests of the player get lost in the coach's effort to build a second income, someone has to step in and put their foot down.
quote:Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
The high school coach should not be involved at all unless his involvement is requested, e.g., if the player asks for advice or if the player or team asks for a reference.
There is a huge potential for abuse when the kid's school coach gets involved. The worst situations are when the HS coach has his own team and the impression gets out there that you'd better be on his team, or else. When the best interests of the player get lost in the coach's effort to build a second income, someone has to step in and put their foot down.
It's going on in our area right now. It's not Chesterfield County. It's not Henrico County. Guess where?
I know of one in particular. I don't want to get into naming names publicly, but I had that situation front and center in my mind when I wrote my post above.
It's wrong and someone in authority (AD or principal) should put their foot down.
It's also worth noting that, both there and elsewhere, my observation has been that when an elite player actually does go with a different travel team, it's a case of calling the bluff, because the HS coach isn't about to go next spring without his best pitcher or best hitter. The risk might be perceived greater to a borderline player, but then, the borderline player is not looking at a lot of travel team options anyway.
The excuse commonly given is something along the lines of the coach wanting to build the team as a unit, building team cohesiveness in the off season, building for an expected big season, and then the guilt line comes -- "You wouldn't want to undermine that now, would you?"
The problem is that for the higher level player, the summers following sophomore and junior years are critical to recruiting. To subjugate his interests to the goal of milking a few more W's out of a 20-game season is just wrong. Basically it sacrifices the higher level kid's long term interests to the short term goal of aiming for a championship.
Not to mention, it also sends the message to kids who cannot pay the travel team fee that they are not welcome on the varsity team, don't bother trying out. And if the AD and the principal don't care about that, you wonder what they would care about.
It's wrong and someone in authority (AD or principal) should put their foot down.
It's also worth noting that, both there and elsewhere, my observation has been that when an elite player actually does go with a different travel team, it's a case of calling the bluff, because the HS coach isn't about to go next spring without his best pitcher or best hitter. The risk might be perceived greater to a borderline player, but then, the borderline player is not looking at a lot of travel team options anyway.
The excuse commonly given is something along the lines of the coach wanting to build the team as a unit, building team cohesiveness in the off season, building for an expected big season, and then the guilt line comes -- "You wouldn't want to undermine that now, would you?"
The problem is that for the higher level player, the summers following sophomore and junior years are critical to recruiting. To subjugate his interests to the goal of milking a few more W's out of a 20-game season is just wrong. Basically it sacrifices the higher level kid's long term interests to the short term goal of aiming for a championship.
Not to mention, it also sends the message to kids who cannot pay the travel team fee that they are not welcome on the varsity team, don't bother trying out. And if the AD and the principal don't care about that, you wonder what they would care about.
And then this leads right back into the comment that hsbasballfan brought up with regards to the sport changing from a team pursuit to an individual one a little earlier.
IMHO, while baseball might be a "team" game the advancement of the player is very much an individual thing and no player should be put into a position where they sacrifice their own personal goals and aspirations outside of the period of commitment (i.e. the particular season). If they choose to go play on a travel team that enhances their chance at the next level during summer and fall then so be it.
Midlo is right. There are periods that are critical for certain players to get the right exposure in order to have the chance to advance and isn't the purpose of coaching at the lower levels supposed to be about the helping players advance their skill? Or is it really and truly all about the coach and his job security or status in his district (bragging rights)?
Part of me really wants to say that the HS coach should count his blessings that he has the elite player on his squad. I would venture to guess that many top players could run track in the spring and turn to travel/showcase ball in the summer/fall and suffer no consequence since it seems to be the work done on those squads that propel that player forward anyway... I wouldn't want to test the theory, I'm just saying... LOL
IMHO, while baseball might be a "team" game the advancement of the player is very much an individual thing and no player should be put into a position where they sacrifice their own personal goals and aspirations outside of the period of commitment (i.e. the particular season). If they choose to go play on a travel team that enhances their chance at the next level during summer and fall then so be it.
Midlo is right. There are periods that are critical for certain players to get the right exposure in order to have the chance to advance and isn't the purpose of coaching at the lower levels supposed to be about the helping players advance their skill? Or is it really and truly all about the coach and his job security or status in his district (bragging rights)?
Part of me really wants to say that the HS coach should count his blessings that he has the elite player on his squad. I would venture to guess that many top players could run track in the spring and turn to travel/showcase ball in the summer/fall and suffer no consequence since it seems to be the work done on those squads that propel that player forward anyway... I wouldn't want to test the theory, I'm just saying... LOL
quote:...Part of me really wants to say that the HS coach should count his blessings that he has the elite player on his squad. I would venture to guess that many top players could run track in the spring and turn to travel/showcase ball in the summer/fall and suffer no consequence since it seems to be the work done on those squads that propel that player forward anyway... I wouldn't want to test the theory, I'm just saying... LOL
You've just described the state of HS Basketball, Tennis, Golf, Swim & Dive, & more in most parts of the country. My .02 is that Baseball will follow...
i think we are in danger of losing perspective regarding what it is all about and some may have already.
To me this is like going to work, getting paid for my 40 hours a week, and then having the boss tell me what I must do with my evenings and weekends as well.
It's not a question of whether the kid is a team player, and it's not an example of exalting an individual player over the team at all. To the contrary, it's about the coach having enough humility to recognize that while we very much value what he does, we did not put him in charge of the entirety of our children's lives. And it's also a recognition that overstepping one's authority to line your own pockets is way out of bounds.
It's not a question of whether the kid is a team player, and it's not an example of exalting an individual player over the team at all. To the contrary, it's about the coach having enough humility to recognize that while we very much value what he does, we did not put him in charge of the entirety of our children's lives. And it's also a recognition that overstepping one's authority to line your own pockets is way out of bounds.
quote:Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
To me this is like going to work, getting paid for my 40 hours a week, and then having the boss tell me what I must do with my evenings and weekends as well.
It's not a question of whether the kid is a team player, and it's not an example of exalting an individual player over the team at all. To the contrary, it's about the coach having enough humility to recognize that while we very much value what he does, we did not put him in charge of the entirety of our children's lives. And it's also a recognition that overstepping one's authority to line your own pockets is way out of bounds.
Not sure that it could be put any better than you just put it... Well said...
quote:Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
To me this is like going to work, getting paid for my 40 hours a week, and then having the boss tell me what I must do with my evenings and weekends as well.
It's not a question of whether the kid is a team player, and it's not an example of exalting an individual player over the team at all. To the contrary, it's about the coach having enough humility to recognize that while we very much value what he does, we did not put him in charge of the entirety of our children's lives. And it's also a recognition that overstepping one's authority to line your own pockets is way out of bounds.
precisely...I was talking with another parent from a local public school that has a "franchise" team for summer/fall. The head coach forced the players to commit or not commit to the franchise team before cuts were made for the HS spring season. Nothing like that veiled threat hanging over a 15yo head...
What that does is breed dishonesty.
Because if a coach had played that game with my son, I would have told him to go ahead and sign up, and then we could just renege after the season was over.
Then as soon as the season was over, while there was 9 months to work with, I would have sought the coach's firing.
Because if a coach had played that game with my son, I would have told him to go ahead and sign up, and then we could just renege after the season was over.
Then as soon as the season was over, while there was 9 months to work with, I would have sought the coach's firing.
in the Central Region it seems about every school is committed to only having school employees coach the baseball teams...does tnis hold true in otner areas of the state? NOVA? Eastern Region?
I think that is unfortunate in a lot of ways. There have been some extremely qualified coaches passed up at the HS level.
i think it is ideal to have a coach that is in the school and can understand why they want to but sometimes there are guys in community who are better choices....just heard about a former NFL player offeringg his services to his old higgh schhol and being turned down.
The same goes for baseball. Guys that have worked as MLB scouts and guys that have played pro and D1 college baseball not being considered. I personally think the experience and being from the outside can have it's benefits. Also, not intending to target anyone specifically, sometimes you get guys that take a position within a school at a hgher profile program when they are more interested in the coaching position. On the flip side, I have seen a prior coach run a successful baseball program who is also an excellent teacher.
quote:Originally posted by hsbasballfan:
in the Central Region it seems about every school is committed to only having school employees coach the baseball teams...does tnis hold true in otner areas of the state? NOVA? Eastern Region?
I can think of a few cases where this isn't the case, and I certainly don't think it's anything specific to the Central Region. I think it's all related to the school and/or county. In almost all cases, I think the preference would be to have a school employee coach the high school team for a variety of reasons. But you're right- to think that the best baseball coaches also happen to teach or work in the school system is wrong.
One issue is time- if nothing else, you know that if a coach also teaches at your school then he is available at practice time. Some school districts get out really early (I believe Chesterfield gets out at like 2:30 or something). Unless a non-school employee works a really strange schedule, he is simply not going to be available from 2:45-5:00 for practice. It's not as big of an issue in Hanover or Henrico because I believe school goes until about 3:30.
quote:Originally posted by Emanski's Heroes:
One issue is time- if nothing else, you know that if a coach also teaches at your school then he is available at practice time. Some school districts get out really early (I believe Chesterfield gets out at like 2:30 or something). Unless a non-school employee works a really strange schedule, he is simply not going to be available from 2:45-5:00 for practice. It's not as big of an issue in Hanover or Henrico because I believe school goes until about 3:30.
Very good point. I know Chesterfield has more than one Schedule for schools. I know the local HS gets out at like 1:50pm!! When I found that out it blew my mind. It can be an issue for my son, since he's a 8th grade who made JV. The middle school doesn't get out until 2:50pm.
dont think it is an official policy but in talking to people who had applied for the jobs outside the system that is the trend in our area.
There are some cases where coaches teach at other schools the commute over for pratice... was a situation two yars ago where practie startd at 4:00 or 5:00 to accomodate the coachs availability
There are some cases where coaches teach at other schools the commute over for pratice... was a situation two yars ago where practie startd at 4:00 or 5:00 to accomodate the coachs availability