Everything is s perfect fit but the money, now what?

Ok, is this to sign with no $$ offers? Like the other posts?

Sue - Without know more specifics about your situation, here are my thoughts.

Our son had a dream school. But it was an expensive dream school. One we could not afford on our own. So when they came knocking, I/we were willing to take less, but only to a certain point. We figured out what we could afford 'comfortably' and kept that number to ourselves.

So when they came to offer a scholarship, I was only thinking in my mind, 'please coach, don't go below my number.' Thankfully he did not...but if he had, we would have asked once for a higher number and then headed off to another school if that didn't happen.

Point is, don't pass up the dream over a few bucks...you'll regret it if you do...but dreams can be fulfilled at other places too and there is no requirement for you to supplement your son's baseball/college career to a level that is a struggle for your family.

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
Ok, is this to sign with no $$ offers? Like the other posts?

No there is athletic money. Double what we expected but still not alot. They are Div.2 program in the process of rebuilding. Not fully funded. We knew there would be hardly any athletic money. We had just hoped to hear on the academic side earlier. Son has a lot going for him ex. leadership and such. He should get some money just not sure what.

justbaseball,

Son has a legitimate chance of starting as a Freshman. He is excited to be part of a building team. They play in a very stron Div 2 conference. They have a brand new baseball facility and the program should really grow.

On the academic side they offer all that he wants and more. He can even start right away working on campus to see if it is what he likes his first year.

It is in an area that he had never thought of before. But he has been there so many times this Summer and Fall that now he loves the area.

The other schools that are interested are a Div.1 that is not a fit and then some Div.3's that are waiting to see if he signs or not. But the Div.3's are very expensive private school's so they would end up costing about the same as this offer (without any academic money). The problem with this school is the out of state fees. If we lived in the state it would be a no brainer!!

Sounds like a family decision to me.

Given that its a "perfect fit," if it were me (everyone looks at this differently), I would look at what I was willing and able to pay if my son were not a baseball player. If the scholarship $$ bring it down to that (or below) level, then I'd take it with a smile. If its close I'd probably take it too.

If it were a BIG stretch, I'd probably move on. But thats just what I think I would do. Everyone is different.

Good luck!

Sue,
Ok I get it.

I agree with passing up the dream over a few dollars. But I do understand you do not want to be in a financial bind.

Would they waive out of state fees? Have you asked?

The only thing I found, in our case, once they find the place they see themselves being in for the next four years, it's hard to let that go.

quote:

The problem with this school is the out of state fees. If we lived in the state it would be a no brainer!!

Ditto, some schools have a waiver for certain criteria; GPA, test scores or a combo. One more piece of paper to fill out perhaps but probably worth it if its available, just a thought.

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
Sue,
Ok I get it.

I agree with passing up the dream over a few dollars. But I do understand you do not want to be in a financial bind.

Would they waive out of state fees? Have you asked?

The only thing I found, in our case, once they find the place they see themselves being in for the next four years, it's hard to let that go.

We did ask about the fees. Coach tried too. But they said no. This School does not put the athletic recruiting first when it comes to things like that I guess.

I think it is hard for us to picture him anywhere else either. Maybe I just answered my own question with that statement. It is just that our Son will have to have loans for the remainder amount that we cannot afford. That is why it is so hard!!

Wait a minute, you can afford any school. Simply file the FAFSA form which requires tax information, income, W-2's, trusts, income tax forms, loans, etc. (available through your high school counselor or online) They will give you the number they think you can pay and send it to the school. The school then makes financial arrangements based on that figure. Our policy with our daughter was to make her take out a small student loan for some of the rest - that gives her a stake in the process. Nothing wrong with that...

Depending upon his profession, those education loans can create a very significant financial burden.

Sounds like y'all are just going to have to weigh the pros & cons.

How important will he be to their baseball program? It would be frustrating to make the sacrifice and then ride the pine.

Is there any way the coach can help hurry up the financial aid office with regard to the non-athletic aid? Perhaps not, but maybe some other posters will have input on this.

Sounds like lots of prayer in store here.

quote:

Originally posted by brod:
Wait a minute, you can afford any school. Simply file the FAFSA form which requires tax information, income, W-2's, trusts, income tax forms, loans, etc. (available through your high school counselor or online) They will give you the number they think you can pay and send it to the school. The school then makes financial arrangements based on that figure. Our policy with our daughter was to make her take out a small student loan for some of the rest - that gives her a stake in the process. Nothing wrong with that...

Excuse me? Maybe YOU can afford any school. That doesn't mean anyone can.

Hypothetical situation. Out of state, so total costs probably around $20k. So the school comes back & says we will meet all your "financial need". $1k in academic scholarships, $3k in athletic scholarships, $2k in Pell Grants. Work-study program will pick up $2k and loans for $12k.

Suspect it would be extremely tough for an athlete to hold down a job. So that $2k is turned down. And the poor kid is burdened with incredible debt upon graduating.

Sue have you done a FAFSA worksheet to see what your EFC would be? As Texan pointed out though, some of the need will be met by loans.

Its a shame that the NCAA and all the "wealthy" institutions who are under their thumb, who spend thousands and thousands of dollars on college football and basketball players, can't cut into the "Steak & Shrimp Daily Banquet Fund" and up the ante for college baseball.
OHIO STATE EXAMPLE:

Baseball 37 $6,336 EXPENSES PER PLAYER PLUS PARTIAL GRANT
Basketball 15 $52,417 EXPENSES PER PLAYER PLUS FULL RIDE
Football 104 $37,639 EXPENSES PER PLAYER PLUS FULL RIDE

OLDSLUGGER8.....

Your absolutely right!! It is ashame, BUT when you have revenue producing sports, i.e., football and basketball (T.V. MONEY), concessions, alumni support, etc., baseball is an orphan compared to those sports. In most areas of the country, volleyball even gets more T.V. time than baseball, excluding the CWS. I know that baseball is on 'extra pay' cable channels, but that can be cost prohibitive. JMHO

The NCAA does not pay for college scholarships, the schools do.

Most (in fact maybe only a handful) baseball programs bring no $$$ returns for their programs. Many schools do help their programs through alumni fundraising that goes towards athletic departments to help fund programs. That's why at some schools the scholarships are more generous than others.

Ever been to any of the "rich" schools during a game, the seats are almost empty most of the time even at powerhouses. Unfortunetly this usually hits the programs that do not enjoy the better weather. One game son played at another ACC school had about 100 in the stands for that game.

Until baseball programs show profits, which they most likely will not, the 11.7 will remain the same.

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/index.asp

This iste was posted by another poster. It shows how much each school spends on their sports and on each participant.
Each school has to report how much they spent last year and the revenues. Some schools spend an average of less than $2000 for a baseball playe.
Compare BB to the big revenue sports.
My son went to the Clemsen /NC game last weekend and he said the place was packed.

Back to the original question...at least, as I interpret it:

If it's the proverbial "dream school" and you can't "make it happen" with the $$ they've offered thus far (I know there are many variables and only YOU, as a family, can answer that question), then I think you must approach the coach and explain...AND, you must be prepared that (worst case scenario) the coach might w/draw the offer and look elsewhere. However, as I see it, if he does, you haven't really "lost" anything because it was out-of-reach anyway.

Alternaively, if, out of fear of losing the opportunity, you accept their present offer and adequate additional $$ (academic, or otherwise) doesn't come through, you've potentially created a real problem for yourselves (financially) and/or your son ("committed" to a school he can't attend and from which he must seek a "release" before most other schools can even recruit him).

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
The NCAA does not pay for college scholarships, the schools do.

The NCAA makes the rules!!

Bobbleheaddoll - Thats an interesting website. Perhaps I have not dug into it far enough, but I believe there's more to it than meets the eye.

For example, if I just take one school where I know roughly what the tuition, room & board is and I take their total expenditure number and divide it by 11.7, I get a number about half of the tuition, R&B number. That might suggest they aren't fully funded? No way, they're fully funded.

So if I think further about that school, I believe all of their athletic scholarships are endowed...so that cost is never borne by the athletic department...making the expenditure number possibly just all of the other stuff (salaries, travel costs, etc...). Yet even that doesn't seem to add up either.

Then what about camps? Is that income funneled into salaries, yet not reported as an athletic department expense? Just don't know.

So like an MLB team, I'm not sure its easy to back out how much a school is really spending.

JBB,
I am assuming, may be wrong, but those are operating expenses only, not tuition.
Operating expenses would include, I suppose, equipment, meals and lodging, transportation, anything needed to keep a team operating in season and what the school spends for that.
I don't think it includes scholarships.

If the coach owns the camp, revenue belongs to him.

the figures shown are operating expenses only
.

My understanding is that it includes scholarships and all expenses directly related to the baseball program. No tuition or academic money.
It is a required disclosure of all revenues and eaxpenses directly related to the sport. MKy son's elite teams had bigger budgets than some of theses schools.
If you go to the bottom of the 1st link where you search schools it will list all 2005 schools alphabetically by hitting search without putting any criteria in.

just operating exp paid by university, not even coach's salary(s)

also not included are operating funds raised by the program itself

.

OS8,
I understand NCAA makes the rules.

Ok, let's say that the NCAA changes rules, allows baseball D1, 24 full scholarships. Coach now has 24 scholarships to divy up.

Result would be, MORE showing up in fall, more your son would have to compete against.
Larger programs who can afford giving out more $$ for scholarships overloaded with the best talent.

Most college coaches DO NOT want their scholarship amount 11.7 to increase.

I agree that baseball gets the shaft. But baseball does not bring revenue and is treated as such.

Schools with large football programs that make money helps to improve facilities. A few years ago, the locker room at sons school got a nice face lift due to school winning a major bowl game. Of course not as elaborate as the football locker room. Then a new electronic scoreboard, brought over from football field that got a new one. Then enhancements to the athletic facility, including plasma TV's and all new equipment. This is turn helps recruiting for all sports, which in turn just adds more revenue back to the school. But in no way pays for scholarships or salaries.

So being an engineer...now an engineering manager. I had to take bookkeeping101 (in other words, balance sheets for dummies!). I learned in there from a Professor from UVa. that you can keep your balance sheet pretty much however you want it. Being an engineer who strives for precision, I was stunned at this.

But there is no way, whatsoever, that these "operating" costs include salaries or scholarship $$. No way.

quote:

Most college coaches DO NOT want their scholarship amount 11.7 to increase.

In my discussions with college coaches, they do want more $$ to work with. Imagine a college football coach trying to divy up 30 grants for 80 kids?? He would need a "capologist"

By minimizing the "financial aspect" of baseball recruiting, the program, the university, and all the other aspects become the selling point to a recruit.

I have witnessed kids choose a school based on a larger offer, and witnessed first hand a kid taking the lesser offer in favor of the program.

Imagine every recruit and college coach starting off the recruiting process where money wasn't the issue. That basically leaves the coach with his program and facilties as his selling point, and the player has the program and facilities/campus/curriculum as his basis for a decision.

The numbers won't change, just the locations kids end up at. Just look at each D1 roster to determine the "in-state" percentages on the team. That is a direct result of 11.7

Maybe my experience is different, but I highly doubt it. Many opportunities were dismissed out-of-state due to financial fit, and financial fit ONLY.

.

I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, Didn't go to a "name" college...

But why in the heck don't you guys just ask the OPE what that figure includes??

44
.

The coaches salaries are on a separate sheet and there is a spot for recruiting costs.
It also says that student athletic aid may be included in the operating expenses. It is a bit confusing but all the figures are there but not necaessarily on the same page.

All coaches want more $$, but I don't think they want more percentages to give out.

At sons school the football revenue is 22,334,140 for football and 4,987,189 for basketball. ALL other sports combined 1,684,542.

So who are you going to give full scholarships to? Baseball 11.7 gets hit hard due to woman's sports.

I am in no way agreeing that 11.7 is enough. If the NCAA allowed more than 11.7 the smaller schools would be crying foul.

I agree that out of state costs make it virtually impossible for many players and parents.

I never thought mine would go out of state for school, especially with tuition paid for. However, my son does attend a school that recruits half or more from out of state, keeping a smaller roster and most likely more funds available for that purpose.

I am not understanding why, if a parent does their homework, understands school costs in state vs. out of state, private school costs and understands what little money is actually
available for bb scholarships ,would be disappointed with the system.

My son went to a game at Ckemson last week and he couldn't believe the crowd.
The largest crown he saw in BB was at Florida State and it was close to 5000. His home games pull about 130 people. His summer ball can pull the same but there is one team that gets 3000+.
No where near football.

Sue......I tounds like you have answered the question for yourself......if it feels like the perfect fit and it isn't impossible to afford, good things are likely to happen.

Congrats and good luck!

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
My son went to a game at Ckemson last week and he couldn't believe the crowd.
The largest crown he saw in BB was at Florida State and it was close to 5000. His home games pull about 130 people. His summer ball can pull the same but there is one team that gets 3000+.
No where near football.

Football, 83K+, too many people at one time in one place for me. I do believe it is or one of largest stadiums (college).
I do believe your son's school comes to Clemson this year, usually 5-6K per game in attendance.

I would most likely say that Clemson may be one of the few sachools that makes money some moeny from baseball.

TPM I checked and we don't play Clemson. Actually I am some what dissappointed in the schedule this year.

quote:

Football, 83K+, too many people at one time in one place for me. I do believe it is or one of largest stadiums (college).

83k is decent but consider....

Penn State 96K
Ohio State 105K
Michigan 100+K
Notre Dame 100+K
Tennessee is the biggest I believe at 110K - I am sure someone can set me straight on that one.
USC has to be well over 100K.
UCLA - Rose Bowl is +100K

I am also looking forward to the Clemson game this year

quote:

Originally posted by grateful:
Sue......I tounds like you have answered the question for yourself......if it feels like the perfect fit and it isn't impossible to afford, good things are likely to happen.

Congrats and good luck!

Thank you!

We were able to get some last minute info that made it easier to make the decision. We are actually really happy to have found a fit for him. He is signing tonight!! Nothing like waiting to the last minute!

I think after having known this School could be the fit for many months it would of been really hard to sway Son in another direction. He is so comfortable with their Coaching staff that it would be hard to let that go. The School itself being a fit without the sport makes it even that much better.

Bobblehead,
Ooops, I forgot, keep thinking that your son goes to Georgia Southern, had it mixed up.

CD,
That's just too many people tailgating at once for me!

quote:

He is signing tonight!!

I think after having known this School could be the fit for many months it would of been really hard to sway Son in another direction. He is so comfortable with their Coaching staff that it would be hard to let that go. The School itself being a fit without the sport makes it even that much better.

Sue - huge congrats Sounds like he found his dream school

TPM - I just can't imagine you shying away from any tailgating parties

I have been to many OSU-Michigan games and it is a blast. There are some rowdies there but the police do a pretty good job with crowd control.

Congratulations Sue!

Glad everything worked out, Sue. Best wishes for your son.

Congrats Sue to you and your son! May he have a fantastic senior year!!