Experienced advice needed

quote:

I have kept telling my son to just stay focused on his goal and NOT get caught up in what other PWO's are doing or their negativity. Essentially to not even give any coach a reason to believe he does not think he is good enough to make the team. HE IS HITTING while a whole bunch of others (including returners) are not!

Outstanding advice you gave your son!

FWIW, my son was a recruited walk-on (for all practical purposes) and he still essentially is even though his college career is over.

The underdog thing can serve your son better than almost any other emotion. Playing with a chip on your shoulder. BTW, he is not in competition with other PWO's, he is in competition with the 9 starting guys the coach currently has "imagined" in his head.

Scholarships mean nothing now. It's all about performance. Is the scholarship guy going to get more rope (looks) than your son? Yep. But so what? So what....

At the level your son is at, the physical talent discrepancies are much closer than they were in high school. Those who can win the mental game win imho. This is about vision. This is about keeping your mouth shut and letting your bat/glove/arm do all the talking. If he does that, he will overcome.

Really appreciate the feedback and support.

Agree about his competition.

His plan going into this was not to just make the roster but to crack the starting line-up!!!

Fact is, I was not happy former rec coord told my son he had a guaranteed anything--and we have never rested on that either. He has been taught there are NO guarantees in this game (any game for that matter) and no replacement for a dedicated, work ethic minus any whining. Day 1 all players knew over the summer they had to run 2 miles in under 14 minutes he did it in 12:15.

It is tough because his roommate who has zero hits and 9 K's has already cashed it in and the negativity permeates his room--but it is what it is.

Just wondering why coaches are not gving him more playing time?

quote:

It is tough because his roommate who has zero hits and 9 K's has already cashed it in and the negativity permeates his room

None of this is about what the other guys do or say. The only thing that matters are the positive thoughts your son thinks and controlling only those things he can control. If this is a 35 man roster, then your son has already moved himself up on the depth chart to at least #34 (if the roomate has in fact cashed it in) and that is a positive thing.

A story I heard told once by Jack Nicklaus himself...

A three-player playoff was set to determine the championship for some golf tournament. Before the playoff began, the skys opened and the weather turned nasty. Nicklaus heard both of his competitors constantly worrying out loud about the conditions. Each said in essence, "Surely they won't play this because of the conditions."

Nicklaus prayed for the play to continue. He knew that he already had the other two beat because the other two were only focused on the weather and not the competition. After several hours of rain delay, the tournament was resumed and sure enough, Nicklaus won on the first overtime hole.

This is all about attitude and vision.

Great golf game analogy and in-line with how he perceives situations. Control that which you can!

He is not a stud but rather a quiet team contributor. He has had to overcome similar adversity throughout his HS playing days where he put together impressive enough #'s to be named team MVP even though other teammates got their names plastered all over headlines and much better press coverage.

QUESTION: Are D1 coaches able to make cuts anytime they want in the fall or are they mandated to give a PWO the full 45 days of fall playing time period before they can "officially" cut them?

I know it sounds negative and NOT what we are focused on but he was told by "others" (not heard from coaches) there may be more cuts this coming week? Can they do this is the question?

Thanks.

bb2dy321 - How many are players are currently coming out for fall practices? If they have 35 or less then I would not think there would be any cuts, if there are more than 35 then they will need to get down to 35 before the spring schedule begins.

It is wise to listen to ClevelandDad, his son has been there/done that and his words are so spot on.

Here are a couple of my thoughts, FWIW:

Just wondering why coaches are not gving him more playing time?

Maybe the time they have seen him they have already been satisfied with his performance -- and choose to give the other guys more looks. I have heard that Scholly players have to prove they can't (sometimes they are given longer) and non scholarship players have to prove they can.

I think the coaches at all levels can cut anyone at any time, Scholly players or walk ons, they just don't get that scholly roster spot back.

It is good to work hard for a starting position, then he will be ready when that day comes. Just don't get discouraged with the way it may play out. I agree with CDad that the coach has the starting 9 in his mind. Your son has at least 4 years ahead of him, enjoy each one of them while you have the oppportunity. You can worry a whole season away and then look back and wish you hadn't.

One final thing, your son should be playing with confidence that he has his scholarship in hand regardless of how this ball thing works out, as long as he takes care of the books. There are undoubtedly players on the team that this is not true for, that will struggle with ball and academics throughout the experience.

Good luck!

I'm sorry but I have to comment on your story Cleveland Dad, I too heard that exact story from the mouth of Arnold Palmer himself, his side....with the oncoming weather, Mr. Palmer was sure the day was over. He headed to the bar and in 2 hours proceeded to down a "few" Ketel Ones, (his favorite drink to date) and was thinking about dinner when the word came to continue. He went out but never had a chance. That's one of only a few Jack got from him ;-).I just had to laugh when I heard your story.
Great advice, keep your head down, do what they ask, give them no reason to even think about cutting you.
Laying down a few "perfect" sac bunts doesn't hurt either, always seems to be a little thing that helps to keep a guy on a team.

Welcome to the HSBBW.
CD gave good advice, the only person he should worry about is himself and continue to work hard.

As far as fall practice, no one can figure out what a coach is thinking, even the players with bb scholarships. Not sure we can give you advice on that.

How many players without bb scholarships showed up, did the HC help in getting your son academic aid??

I do beleive that coaches can cut down whenever they want, and it is sometimes best to do it asap so the player can go consider other options, that's only fair, isn't it?

Great story CD! Love it!

bb2dy321,
There are very few guarentees. A NLI or returning scholarship player will receive his financial aid assuming he meets minimal behavioral and academic standards and stays in school. However, no rule assures anyone playing time, or even a position on the team, and cuts can occur at any time. (Players with scholarships must be included on the official 35 man spring squad list, but a team could choose to cut such a player and go with a 34 man or fewer actual roster.)

PWO is an informal term which is not mentioned in the NCAA Bylaws.

I do think that a "guarenteed" roster spot should mean throughout the year, but that is actually up to the coaches.

Your son (and every other player, too) should do the very best he can. That's all he can control.

quote:

Originally posted by Diamond Dog AZ:
I'm sorry but I have to comment on your story Cleveland Dad, I too heard that exact story from the mouth of Arnold Palmer himself, his side....with the oncoming weather, Mr. Palmer was sure the day was over. He headed to the bar and in 2 hours proceeded to down a "few" Ketel Ones, (his favorite drink to date) and was thinking about dinner when the word came to continue. He went out but never had a chance. That's one of only a few Jack got from him ;-).I just had to laugh when I heard your story.
Great advice, keep your head down, do what they ask, give them no reason to even think about cutting you.
Laying down a few "perfect" sac bunts doesn't hurt either, always seems to be a little thing that helps to keep a guy on a team.

I heard Jack tell it and I am sticking to my version

Another way of looking at it is that Jack won more, therefore Arnold must be "fibbing."

Yes.

They were at 51 on Day 1 and now due to the self-cut/weeding out whiners process they are at around 44.

He was told they plan on keeping 5-6 OF where 4 seem already set on roster. Simple math says he has to be in remaining 2 group.

Other issue- online fall roster list 23 players including 10 who either signed NLI or transferred from JUCO.
No PWO has yet to be named to that roster (hmmmmmm???)

So using the 35 man # that leaves 12 spots left where 2 are for OF.

Long shot??? Suppose but again---this is a team that has been last in offense over last 2 seasons with team total of 399 K's last season--would think keeping a contact switch-hitter who puts the ball in play at a pretty good clip would be a no brainer but obviously--just not feeling it which is why the questions on here.

quote:

would think keeping a contact switch-hitter who puts the ball in play at a pretty good clip would be a no brainer but obviously--just not feeling it which is why the questions on here.

Here's a thought...

The "not feeling it" part may be called good coaching. They aren't there to be your son's friend or make him feel good about himself. They are there to coach him up. If that means they play on some perceived inferiority complex over scholarship guys, then so be it. This is hardball. It is about getting the best out of everybody.

I'll would like to ask TPM to comment on this issue again. Are college coaches (in general) nice to players?

quote:

Maybe the time they have seen him they have already been satisfied with his performance -- and choose to give the other guys more looks.

I was sitting here thinking about posting that because its a concept rarely expressed.

I still read some, and, try not to post, but I love the subject of the transition to the D1.

As an incoming freshman to a D1, you must adjust your expectations some.

If you make the fall cuts, that's a good sign.

You can't base it on playing time in the fall.

Check the hitting stats in the dressing room and see where your son is.

They keep them, just like in the spring.

Best to be in the top 9-11. That's about how many will play most of the innings in the spring.

He has to have good hitting success against his team's pitching. If he can't hit his own team pitching, then he won't be able to hit in conference.

Hitting is the key. They can all play defense and run. But, they can't all hit D1 pitching.

Stay in shape over the winter break, and, be prepared to step up and perform in the first couple of weeks of early spring practice.

The step off even the best of high school program stage to the D1 stage is a huge leap.

Your coach, if he is a good coach, and, he probably is or he wouldn't be a D1 coach, knows that it is a leap and will work his best young players into the lineup slowly so that they have some small successes and build confidence.

The incumbent players have been tested by fire, and, no matter how good your son is, they don't know how he will respond until they test him.

Don't forget that your son is a FRESHMAN and D1 experience is something that he does not have.

Be happy with ANY playing time, and, late game pinch hits with a couple of defensive innings.

Those are opportunities..................

Cleveland,

I actually see it the same way as far as the coaches are concerned. I suppose that they have not said yeah or nay means they are still watching and waiting to see what the 2 remaining OF'ers they are observing are made of.

Reason I have suggested to my son to just keep focused on the positive, keep working and keep puttin' the ball in play while sticking to the fundamentals.

Former Observer,

Well said! These coaches all know my son opted out of playing summer Legion ball like his HS teammates did (no offense to others who may have) and instead played in a men's wood bat league where he admits he faced even better pitching than what he is facing right now. It was a wake-up call transition for sure but he held his own and stepped up his daily hitting regimen to meet the new demand.

Other PWO's and especially his roommate keep complaining they never faced this level of pitching before suggesting (not fair) they needed more time.

Be in shape, ready to play, and hit when you step on D1 campus.

You might only get 10 official fall ABs........

The nod to a scholarshipped player over a walk on is not very much.

The best 9-11 hitters will play somewhere regardless of how their tuition is paid.

The coaches have 45 days and two or three official games.

You don't get more time.

And, go to class.

I saw a starting player get cut the day they found out he hadn't been attending class and before he was ever officially declared ineligible.

Daddy---relax----you sound as if you are more nevous than your son--- he is a freshman without a scholly so the a situation will be precarious until he makes it or breaks it.

Trust me he knows the situation for what it is---you need to relax because from what you post, and I am not trying to be a hardnose here, you sound like a HS parent

and your nervous nellie feelings will transmit to your son and that is not a good thing

Crack open a cold brew and turn on Sunday nite baseball, putg your feet up and chill

a friend of mines son went to an ivy league school as a non recruited walk on. no cuts made until the spring roster was to be final. he said the coach was mentaly demeaning every day.worse than some boot camp's. the team had a way of self cutting the roster. in the end he made the team ,played 4 yrs for the team. the toughest thing he's done, also most gratifying.

if it was easy, everyone would be doing it.

good luck to your son, let us know how this play's out.

Cd is spot on.

Tell your son to control what he can and continue to work his rear end off. Coaches can let players go whenever they see fit, and will (no matter who the player is) if they don't see the player in a position to help the team win. It was ever thus.

Your son must have done a whole lot that's already very good to get him where he is now. Tell him to work even harder and, if nothing else, he'll know he left it all there on the field. Good or bad, that's all any of them can do.

OBC

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:

quote:

would think keeping a contact switch-hitter who puts the ball in play at a pretty good clip would be a no brainer but obviously--just not feeling it which is why the questions on here.

Here's a thought...

The "not feeling it" part may be called good coaching. They aren't there to be your son's friend or make him feel good about himself. They are there to coach him up. If that means they play on some perceived inferiority complex over scholarship guys, then so be it. This is hardball. It is about getting the best out of everybody.

I'll would like to ask TPM to comment on this issue again. Are college coaches (in general) nice to players?

CD is right, most players (as I said even the bb scholarship guys) don't get those warm fuzzy feelings their first fall or even returning in spring. The ever so delightful guy that recruited your son or spoke with your son, isn't there when he gets to the field, it's all business now, for everyone. This is a big part of the coaches making freshman grow up fast, some will do everything they can to beat you down, they also want to know what "stuff" you are made of. CD is right, this is hardball now.

My player had a nice bb scholarship,
his first fall he couldn't figure out where he would fit in the scheme of things, and didn't until his first season ended. But his coaches also did not have 51 show up in the fall, only those that would be on the roster.

That doesn't mean that relationships don't grow and bonding doesn't take place and lifelong friendships aren't made later on, but most will tell you, no matter where you go, this is how it is.

Former Observer gave some great advice to think about and pass on.

The only players mentioned on a fall roster should actually be the bb scholarhip players, everyone else is still in try out phase for spring.

I have to agree with TR, you need to relax.

Unfortunetly when you are a recruited walk on (and 3FG is correct that a PWO is still a walk on as far as the NCAA is concerned), and with 51 arriving for 35 spots, maybe already 27 on scholarship, this is how it is gonna be.

Thank you Posters,

OK aside from TR Hit whose nervous nellie comments are a bit off -you must have missed my original post in motivating my son to just keep pluggin' away -but I accept that as part of the territory in coming on here.

Though would seem not so due to this being a baseball forum but academics are first and foremost and like I said - he chose this school because of the academic $$$ offered and it also offerd his major interest.

Baseball is his passion and yes so what if it is also mine (why it is his in the first place) but this is not about daddy or living vicariously through my son (he is way better than I ever was because he has worked at it and wanted it more).

Also he is not required to attend mandatory baseball study hours (6-9 per week) as he is in the honors program. So I told him those same guys getting all the extra playing time are the same ones getting all the extra study time too!

Somebody on here said it best, he will still have his academic scholly and more opps for baseball down the road.

Thanks to all!

Suppose it is all a gamble and game of odds when you come right down to it nd agree--so far so good!

Thanks for support

quote:

Originally posted by FormerObserver:

I still read some, and, try not to post, but I love the subject of the transition to the D1.

FO - Please keep reading and posting, I always enjoy your insight and advice!

Good thread!

Here's my 2 cents!

First of all, let's be careful that we are sure who IS on scholarship and who isn't. (Unless you have a copy of their NLI) Just because they are only allowed 27 on scholarship doesn't mean they have that many.

On my Son's D1 team, at least one returning player was told his scholly was not being renewed, but he is back this Fall trying to make the team.

Secondly, there is a reason that these other kids are there on baseball scholarship; Talent and Potential. Most coaches want to make sure that those players get the chance to justify the recruiting decision that was made. Otherwise, their recruiting pitch to those kids and parents might appear to have been less than genuine and that hurts a program.

Finaly, this whole situation could definitely work in your Son's favor by this time next year. By then, the NLI's for his competition will be up for renewal. If they know your Son is there and is productive without baseball money, they can re-allocate the money for new recruits.

This is a Coaches dream!

I happen to know of a player who is now in the majors that attended a D1 college and was never on baseball scholarship, only academic. He was drafted and signed after his Junior year, and his pro contract included a full scholarship for his remaining costs to complete his degree.

I doubt that a 25% minimum baseball scholarship is worth anywhere near the $24,000 that he is getting for academics? (Maybe not even a 50%?)

I'm guessing most parents of players on his team would gladly trade places with you.

Let it all play out and I think you will be happy with the results. It sounds to me like he is getting a decent look.

Best Wishes!

Awesome response!

Yes a 25% bb scholly would amount to about $10K so son is indeed getting more than even a 50% bb scholly would have provided him.

However, I am not sure that plays at all into a coaches decision because it is not HIS baseball money anyway but...it is a lot of $$$ for which we are thankful for his academic prowess.

BTW, I also agree with your contention if coaches decide to cut a player who signed an NLI they darn well better be able to justify why they did and not just to that player but to the parents as well.

Being able to tell that player (parents) --look we gave you (your son) twice as many opportunities to show us you (he) could hit at this level and you/he had fewer hits and was not as productive than another player who had half as many at bats--sure covers the coaches in their decision making.

Hope it pans out that way because baseball is and always has been a big part of our sons (yes our) lives.

bb2day321,

With the process of experience through college, summer wood bat leagues and MILB, and now having a son who is part of a college coaching staff, my suggestion is to realize there is nothing you can do.
As your posts reflect, be proud of the effort your son is demonstrating in the college transition.
For the most part, though, the stats of your son and comparing his stats to others is a bit hollow, in the big picture of the transition that is occurring.
I don't mean to sound harsh as I know those stats and comparative stats seem like they should mean something for your son, to his coaches,and to you.
Only his coaches know if they do or don't and only his coaches know what they mean, if they do mean anything.
Fall Ball is like a season. It is not made up of one game, one week or any part looked at in isolation.
Just like a baseball season, Fall ball is a series of practices and scrimmages over about a 45 day period.
An individual day, AB, scrimmage isn't likely to mean too much in the big picture.
For freshman, proving your talent level involves what is happening in those early morning weight training sessions, what is happening in the classroom, study hall, how hard the player works, is he early to practice, does he stay late, is he coachable, is he getting better at the college game and how do the coaches see his talent when measured against what they know is needed when an umpire yells "play ball" next February 18 or so.
If your son senses he isn't getting as many reps as others, it is his job to get extra reps before and after practice so that every time he gets his number/name called, he is ready and can perform.
I cannot emphasize the importance of your son getting himself mentally and physically ready by doing the extra work on his own.
Unless his talent is demonstrably better than the competition, which it may not be, his intangibles, combined with work ethic, combined with improvement may equal success when his number is called.
He can control those parts of the equation and he needs to do so.
The big risk of college baseball, Summer wood bat leagues and every aspect of baseball beyond HS is associated with talent, drive and getting better day, by day, by day.
The differences in talent are slim. Talent gaps are closer than every before.
College coaches recruit talented players they feel can succeed. Good college coaches teach them to play the college game during the Fall. They provide teaching on how to succeed.
It is the player who needs to listen to the teaching and to apply it and to perform...and to get better.
Freshman, especially, who are not far better players when Fall ball ends will have an uphill battle for playing time/making the team, if they make it that far.
Your son needs to have a goal along the lines of setting, then outworking his expectations each and every day.
He also needs to have a goal to be a better player tomorrow than he is today or was yesterday.
What he does not accomplish in practice, he needs to get done before and after practice. There will days he won't feel like he made it. He cannot get down. Each day is a new one. His job is to make the best of each and every day and opportunity as they arise, and to be prepared, maximally, when they do.
It is a new idea for me,as a parent of a coach, that, especially during the Fall, coaches don't limit their evaluations to what players do; they look to what players can and should do, how much better can they get and are the players willing to do "whatever it takes" to get there. Their job is to teach and to drive players to levels the player does not ever see possible for himself.
When the player is satisfied, coaches often are not.

I came to this site believing I could get some advice-I in fact asked for experienced advice.

The many well thought out responses I received have overwhelmingly assured me this is the ONLY place any parent with questions on recruiting should come to and in fact, they would be foolish not to.

"The short-cut to the right way is almost always found on the path of experienced wisdom."

My son is doing all that he can with his god given talent and does go above and beyond in working to improve his skills. Whatever baseball opportunities exist for him beyond tomorrow remains to be seen and will ultimately be decided by someone other than himself. "I get it" (thanks all) it is beyond his/my control.

Whatever baseball opprotunities exist for him beyond tomorrow remains to be seen and will ultimately be decided by HIM.

Baseball is a marathon not a sprint. Its not where you start but how you finish. Grind it.

I remember being buried on the depth chart my freshman year in college. My position coach told me "You can not control what these others guys are doing or will do. What you can control is what you are doing. You don't have to be better than all of them. You simply have to outlast them. You simply have to out grind them. Some will get hurt. Some will not take care of business in the class room. Some will lose focus. Some will simply not perform. Be ready for your shot. And when you get it grab it by the throat and never give it back."

I didnt see the field outside of special teams the first 6 games of the season. By the 7th game I was starting. Everything coach said was true.

You take care of your business and you prepare yourself for success when your opportunity or opportunities come. And you never concern yourself with things you can not control. If you focus on taking care of what you can take care of you will be just fine.

Tough times make tough guys tougher. Tough times bury the weak.

Sorry Coach May--but will respectfully disagree.

I did not fabricate what he has done since stepping on the D1 field nor have I embellished his work ethic-- or his commitment to improving at the game on a daily basis.

If it were really up to my son as you suggest on whether or not he can play at this level and play it well--I assure you -- you never would have heard from me on this forum.

There remains a lot of fall ball ahead and more opps for him to either keep putting up or yes- fizzle out --this I do know.

Because it has been his pattern, no question if he was given twice as many hitting opps as the others--his bat/offense would have put up even better numbers. Not sure why any coach would not have been more interested in seeing that but am comfortable with what some posters suggested might be the reason. Essentially why I came on here in the first place.

All that said-- 3 coaches and more likely just one holds the next phase of my son's baseball career in HIS hands. And if you do not believe that to be true in "some" cases--I would ask you read up on David Eckstein and how he was completely overlooked coming out of HS to where no D1 college coaches even gave him the time of day. He did NOT quit the game for which you will say meant it was always in HIS hands--where I say a whole bunch of D1 coaches did their level best to ignore him and he got REAL lucky in his path to baseball stardom.

Where is Eckstein now? Who determined that outcome? Those coaches or him?

You see it is up to your son. As soon as you start thinking it is out of your hands and in someone else's hands your beat.

If your son continues to produce if continues to grind it out he will ultimately determine his own fate.

We will just have to disagree on this one.

I've enjoyed every post in this thread!

Look, I have posted the following article before, and for those who have read it, I apologize in advance for forgiveness...

There are several ways to succeed in college and beyond. One tried and true way is to out-talent the other guy. Another way is to out-desire the other guy and be ready for your ONE chance like Coach May is talking about. Some guys are so gifted that they can both out-talent and out-desire the other guys.

In the following article, the whole issue is about out-desiring the other guy. Out blue-collaring him if you will. I wish I could take credit for my son's philosophy, but these things all come from him and those who have coached him... this article appeared a few days before my son's college career ended... in tears... like almost all of his season's end...

quote:

Thursday, May. 28, 2009
Bortnick's heart set on taking Coastal Carolina to College World Series

By Josh Hoke - jhoke@thesunnews.com

CONWAY -- After motoring around the bases and sliding head first into home plate for an inside-the-park home run at last week's Big South Baseball Championship, Tyler Bortnick jumped up, pumped his fist and let out a yell.

It was a rare moment of flash during a career built on substance.

Coastal Carolina coach Gary Gilmore has molded his program with players many of them a little too small or a little too slow who share his blue-collar principles. Bortnick, the team's 5-foot-10, 175-pound senior third baseman, may epitomize that mold better than any other player in Gilmore's 14 years as head coach.

"He wills himself to be the best player on our team," Gilmore said. "Whatever he weighs, a large portion of it is in his heart. We're going to miss what he brings to us in passion and desire far more than what we'll miss in ability, even though he's a great player."

Bortnick is the unquestioned heart and soul of this year's Chanticleers. Players like David Anderson, Cody Wheeler and Nick McCully have more star power, but Bortnick's desire to lead his team to Omaha is unrivaled even on the coaching staff, a point that Gilmore made on Senior Day two weeks ago.

His desire to reach the College World Series is why he has willingly changed positions twice since his junior season ended.

After playing both third base and shortstop as a freshman in 2006, Bortnick started all but one game at shortstop in 2007 and 2008. But he moved to second this year, allowing talented freshman Taylor Motter to fill his shoes, and then moved to third after Scott Woodward was injured midway through the season.

"I'm here to do whatever it takes to get this team to Omaha," said Bortnick, whose team begins its quest against Kansas today in the NCAA Chapel Hill (N.C.) Regional. "If it means I've got to play short, third, second or catcher, it doesn't matter. As long as it puts the best nine out there, I'm all for it.

"And I like being that utility guy, being able to play here and play there. Hopefully that gives me a better chance to get on the field at the next level."

Bortnick has been an integral part of the cause this season, morphing himself from a role player into one of the team's most consistent hitters.

He is batting .374 with 11 home runs and 44 RBIs, all career highs since he became a regular starter as a sophomore. Now batting cleanup, Bortnick's production at the plate has helped protect Anderson, who bats third behind Rico Noel and Adam Rice.

He spent hours upon hours many of them by himself honing his swing in Coastal's batting cages.

"The way you get better is when no one else is watching," said Bortnick, who models his game after a player with similar intangibles, Boston's Dustin Pedroia. "You can do all you want for the coaches and let them see what you do, but the only way you'll really get better is when you're out there on your own."

Though his Coastal career will end after the Chants' final postseason game this season, Bortnick's work ethic and competitiveness have left an indelible mark on Gilmore's youth-laden roster.

"He works hard every day," Motter said. "He's the hardest worker on this team. He loves the game. He loves winning. He wants this program to win a national championship more than anybody in the world."

I hope you have that framed somewhere CD. That is simply awesome stuff right there.

quote:

"The way you get better is when no one else is watching," said Bortnick, who models his game after a player with similar intangibles, Boston's Dustin Pedroia. "You can do all you want for the coaches and let them see what you do, but the only way you'll really get better is when you're out there on your own."

That right there is some awesome true stuff!

CD,

Tyler's comments reminded me of when DK was a frosh at CU, two of the freshman guys used to get up at 3-4AM in the morning to go hit in the cage.

CD,

Thanks for posting that article again, and don't apologize...that was Great Stuff!

Agree--great article, great story. I not only read it but have a copy of it in my office.

Look my son (any kid) could go the Eckstein route but let's face it folks--that true story is less about Ecksteins skills (he always had D1 level skills and proved it and his work ethic) and is filled with a whole bunch of incredible odds and a ton of luck.

May even be a once in our lifetime storyline that is how lucky Eck really was in getting his D1 chance which was the catalyst for his pro career.

I would suggest there are thousands of Eck players out there who had ample D1 skills but were also overlooked for multiple reasons by college coaches. To imply every D1 level coach never makes such mistakes is just not realistic. In those instances when it does happen it is not in the hands of the player but remains uncontrollable.

I will agree however every player has the chance to rebound from such a scenario to prove themselves again if the desire and fire are there. But bankin' on the Eck route IMHO is now an empty bank fairy tale already used up once in our lifetime.

bb,
I would fully agree with you that DI college coaches make recruiting mistakes and they can happen with some regularity. Sometimes they miss kids who are DI players. Other times they recruit and offer players who end up not performing at the level required.
Such is the process of recruiting.
But this thread is a very different one and the Eckstein comparison, in my view, does not really fit here, because once he got on campus, he was of a mold similar to CD's son, Tyler.
Once a player gets on a college campus as a recruited baseball player, good college coaches don't miss them. If the player does the work we have talked about in this thread, good college coaches who see them day after day after day normally don't miss the ones who can compete and be successful, and those who cannot.
DI coaches get paid to win. If they don't win, they usually get fired or asked to leave.
IMO, there are far, far fewer mistakes made once the recruit is on campus and competing than there are mistakes in the process of getting them to the campus, in the first place.

quote:

Originally posted by infielddad:
IMO, there are far, far fewer mistakes made once the recruit is on campus and competing than there are mistakes in the process of getting them to the campus, in the first place.

That is 100% true.

That explains the temptation to over-recruit imho.

quote:

Originally posted by bb2dy321:
Have read with interest informative post on here in regard to preferred walk on (PWO). A label for my son currently as a freshman at D1 school who is getting about $24K in academic scholly/aid.

Not sure how to read his situation (ok more so the coaches) as to where he stands so far in the fall ball scenario--any insight from experienced posters greatly appreciated.

Suppose it makes sense NLI players are getting more playing time than PWO's but they ain't hittin' to good (some not at all?) and so far in the 4 "limited" intra-squad games my son has played/batted in he has a hit in each game (3 singles and 2B) only struckout his first AB but not since in 13 PA, 1BB, 3 SB, 3 rbi's and 2 runs scored.

He has done this from both sides of the plate as a legit SH.

Ran a 6.75 60 handles workouts with ease --and is fundamentally sound in playing CF/LF positions.

Does not have cannon arm but is fast to the ball, hits relays and and it is plenty of arm for those positions.

OK- were told by (here is one issue) now "former" recruiting coord--after official visit last fall our son had a "guaranteed roster" spot which helped him make the choice to attend this college (OK that plus $24K in academic $$$).

Current Coaching staff seems more focused on "newer" recruits based on imbalance of playing time but as I have read on here-every team ends up carrying some PWO's just because the logistics in BB scholly money mandates it.

While there are other PWO's self-cutting themselves due to inequities they see in playing time and or because they asked the coach where they stood and did not like the answers they got--I have kept telling my son to just stay focused on his goal and NOT get caught up in what other PWO's are doing or their negativity. Essentially to not even give any coach a reason to believe he does not think he is good enough to make the team. HE IS HITTING while a whole bunch of others (including returners) are not!

Any reason(s) coaches may not be giving him more playing time to this point?

Is there reasons we should be concerned given these circumstances?

Did "guaranteed roster spot" mean at least or only through the fall season? or can coaches make cuts anytime during the fall before the end of fall season?

Thanks!

I think we have addressed the main issues here.

But, we can't answer the question that you really want answered.
And that is; "Will my Son be on the Spring roster?"

Only the Coach can tell us that.

While his stats so far are OK, that is probably not what the Coach is looking at?
Have his AB's been against the pitchers that are projected to be the front-line starters and relievers?
Were his hits line-drives or bloopers?
Were his outs productive?
Are the other players averages low because of bad swings or hard luck?

My Son hit less than .200 in the Fall scrimmages last year as a Freshman, but was the starter when the Spring season came around.

My suggestion is to try not to analyze stats or worry about anything right now.
I'm sure your Son is doing everything he can!

Make sure he is having fun playing the game! Have him encourage and cheer-lead his teammates and always show positive body language. Coaches do pick up on that!