Fall ball (worth it or not?)

Most of the high school coaches in our area do not coach their high school team in the Fall.  If your son is serious about baseball, playing Fall baseball is worth the "hassle" (your word) in my opinion.  For younger players, Fall baseball is about development.  Last year I coached a JV Fall wood bat team with young men from 8th to 10th grade.  It was a lot of fun, and gave the kids the reps they need to continue in the sport.  For the 8th graders, it was a eye opening experience.  They understood what they were going to have to do to prepare for Spring JV tryouts.

 

For high school juniors and seniors it is a chance to get in front of local and regional college coaches.  For my high school junior son (RHP) it is a chance for him to face a Varsity lineup top to bottom for the first time, and figure out what he needs to do over the winter to get better.   The more you play, the better you get.  I think Fall baseball is a great idea for any kid or young man if they are passionate about the game.  Fall baseball typically ends in late Oct/early Nov for us.   The kids take a 4-8 week break and then start up with getting ready for Spring baseball.

My son won his starting position in fall ball. Spring tryouts were a formality after his fall ball performance. A kid can show a lot more in ten games than three tryout days.

My son played fall ball because he loves playing baseball. I don't know if it made any difference in results, but it sure was fun. In our area it is more relaxed than summer baseball, however, almost all serious baseball players (who don't play football) play fall ball. It also gave him the opportunity to play with some different kids.

 

His high school coach never saw him play a fall game as far as I know.

Son's high school has an 18u team this fall for the first time in several years.  They play/practice on Tuesday and Wednesday against 4 other schools in the area.  This leaves the weekends open for the younger or uncommitted players to visit schools or play on a travel team.  Cost was minimal, $90, for 8 games over 10 weeks.  I'm glad there was this option for my senior to play this fall.

We played Fall ball for yrs  and now luckily our HS coach just wants us to practice instead. I was seeing a lot of sore arms in Fall because P were pitching on travel teams in Summer. They need a break. Many players around here play football too so that changes team if HS tries playing together. We will attend college camps of schools son is interested in. Want son to spend more time on academics and enjoying school too.

Fall ball was worth it to my son.  Our local fall league is based on the schools in the area, but is not endorsed or supported by the schools - cost was reasonable - about $125/player).  The league is a seperate entity.  Some varsity coaches actually coach the fall team, some do not.  Its emphasis is suppose to be about development, but the successful teams tend to also strive to win the championship.  Normally games are doubleheaders on Saturdays (5 innings each).  If a game was on a weeknight it was 7 innings, but counted as two games.  I have yet to see a coach go more than 2-3 innings with the pitchers.  So typically 4-6 pitchers will pitch on any given weekend. The season is usually about 7 weeks with 3 additional weeks to complete the playoffs/championship.

 

The head coach for my son's HS came to some games, but not all.  It gave the players, especially new players looking to tryout in the spring, a taste of HS level ball. It gave the experience players opportunities to continue to refine their skills.  It was a little more relaxed than HS ball - practices 2 nights a week and games on weekends.

 

I do believe it helped my son (now in his 2nd year of JUCO ball).  He played in the fall league for 5 years (8th - 12th grade).  His HS years he played JV (8th-9th) and Varsity (10th-12th) in the spring, Legion ball in the summer and the fall league from Sept to November. 

 

Granted the fall league wasn't the level of Legion or travel ball, but at that time of year, my son was more interested in playing some fun baseball instead of serious HS/Legion/travel ball.  

Can your son learn? Maybe he will hit or pitch to a opposing platter, now and again next spring. 

Do you wish to hear the Willie Mays story?

Every game is a learning opportunity. 

 

Bob

 

It would be nice to just practice/lift weights in the fall but in order to be able to be on the field you have to be associated with a fall league. 

 

With all of these games the kids play over the summer, it almost seems like playing fall games takes away from the anticipation from the spring season.  It's like the kids are just used to playing game after game and the excitement for the spring season is less. 

 

 

Starting with high school my kids played or worked out year round and played other varsity sports. It was their commitment to playing college ball. It never dimmed the excitement of opening day.

I was the same way.  All I could think about in high school was baseball.  I didn't care what game it was I was pumped to play the game.  I am that way as a coach.  Sometimes I think I want to win more than the players. lol

 

Fall ball has its ups and downs.  The kids do get plenty of work in the fall and I would say it does help them in the spring to certain degree.  I can also say that dealing with rainouts is a pain.  My field has been flooded for three days. 

 

Considering my son usually had a 3 month layoff (mid-November to Mid-February) of no active baseball, the anticipation for "opening day" is still there.  Even in college (JUCO) it's still there.  The fall season is limited (17 games last year, only 14 or so this year) and despite off season conditioning, he'll still be chomping on the bit to play in the spring.

There are many reasons to play fall baseball.  There are some reasons to not play fall baseball.

 

But something is wrong if playing in the fall diminishes a player's anticipation for the spring. True baseball players don't have that problem! 

Pros:

Kids get work

Evaluating the talent

Work in your system

Find out who is committed to the program

 

Cons:

Rainouts

Rescheduling

Free labor

Less time spent with family

 

 

Here is my response, based on experience.

 

If the kid plays a long, hard summer season, it is beneficial to sit in the fall.  Especially if they pitch.  Overuse is a real deal, and there are problems that can be avoided by giving players an opportunity to properly heal and recover.  Throwing is hard on arms and shoulders and while some areas do get stronger with throwing, some areas get abused with repeated microtrauma to joints.  

 

If only my son had taken off baseball in the fall when he was 12 & 13, we wouldn't be dealing with some of the problems of overuse.  Some of these are nasty and have absolutely nothing to do with mechanics, etc.  Just never had enough "down time".

Kids that are 12 years old should probably be doing something other than playing baseball. At that age the list of bad things can be greater than the list of good things when it comes to fall baseball.

 Fall was the move up season in field size so when I coached my son's team we would play a limited schedule to get used to the new field size. Most of our kids played football too so I tried to keep it light. As my son got older ( and dropped football) he played a more rigorous Fall schedule. Most,if not all, of his High School teamates played some Fall baseball.

If only my son had taken off baseball in the fall when he was 12 & 13, we wouldn't be dealing with some of the problems of overuse.

 

These are important physical development years. Growth plates, muscles and tendons aren't always in synch developmentally. This is when kids need a break from playing one sport too frequently. My kids started fall ball after 8th grade heading into high school. They also played other sports (volleyball, football and travel soccer) in the fall. My daughter was fully grown by the end of 8th grade. My son was in the middle of growing seven inches from March to October. He was awkward at times.

I am just trying to think if playing fall baseball games and practicing from September to December will have an impact on the spring season. 

The good players will always practice on their own even if they're on the fall team.  If you want to play at the next level you're going to put in the work. 

I played fall baseball in high school and practiced on my own because I wanted to play at the next level and be as good as I could be in my varsity season.  I ate, slept and drank baseball in high school. 

I do know fall baseball has some pluses.  The coaches get a chance to see how a player practices, how they play in games and how committed they are to their program. 

But wouldn't just doing strength and conditioning all fall get them better and stronger and would show who the committed ones are?

Obviously, you can't see them play games against other teams, but in the end that's why we have tryouts in the spring.

One of the things that sucks is you can't touch a baseball or bat in the fall unless you're in a league.  It's too bad they don't give you some time to practice without being in a league.  I know some schools do it but I am not taking that chance.  That's why my kids are in a fall league.  Dealing with rainouts are annoying also. lol

Just some thoughts. 

Our experience was identical as described nicely here by twotex.

PS - thoughts and prayers for your son's healing twotex.

I agree with twotex and CD. My son played fall ball because he loved playing baseball. After one year it just became what he did. Played or practiced baseball 12 months a year.

 

Passion...I believe playing and/or practicing baseball in the fall and winter has a huge impact on the spring season. Every spring high school season you could see pretty clearly the players who worked on baseball all winter. As long as burn out is not an issue I don't see where there can be any negatives to working on your game all year. This general idea works on any sport or any other interest a person has imo.

Thanks, CD.

 

My son is missing fall ball for the first time in years due to mono. He is miserable without it.

Baseball players in Latin American countries play year around.  Some get injured same as here in the states.  But it is hard to dispute the results.  The number of Dominicans and Venezuelans playing in the Major Leagues is astounding.

 

the question is... Would there be as many Latin players in the Big Leagues if they took more time off from playing when they were younger?

 

Is there really a "just right" amount of playing?

 

i like it when kids play multiple sports.  I also understand the advantage of working at one sport.  

 

What are the skills that develop to the highest levels of anything?  Do you become a better piano player by practicing all the time or some of the time?  In baseball most everything falls into the risk vrs. reward category.  Especially when dealing with arms.  You don't become a great pitcher unless you pitch a lot.  Yet, the more you pitch, the more you risk injury.  So, in order for a pitcher to reach his full potential, he will probably need to push things a bit, just like anyone trying to be the best at anything. 

 

If I were in the field of medicine, I would always recommend the safest way to stay healthy.  Pitching a baseball is not safe, throwing too much is not the safest way.  In fact, throwing too little is the safest way to go.  But is the safest way the best way to reach your true potential? Has any athlete reached the very top of his sport without extra ordinary effort and risk of over doing it?

 

So whether it is playing in the fall, playing year around, whatever... It is about risk and reward.  That needs to be determined by the player and his parents.  There is no correct answer. No need to over analyze things! You get better by playing! You have a better chance of getting injured by playing! Of course, each individual has a different situation to deal with.  Some have thrown way too much all summer long, some haven't. But then, that gets us right back to square one, how much is too much? We never really know that until we get hurt.

 

Note: This needs to be said!  Getting injured today is not what it was many years ago. I don't know the exact number, but there are hundreds that have thrown in the Big Leagues after having arm surgery.  Not trying to say it's not a big deal because it is.  Many never return to their former ability. We don't hear about those pitchers as often because they are no longer pitching.

 

 

 

 

Fall Ball worth it?

 

I never quite understood the premise of the question fully. I do understand the aspect of recruiting, exposure, etc.

 

In our family it never was "is it worth it" ... It was what do we have to do next so that our sons can continue to play baseball. The season never ends, does it? It never did in our home. We were always on the lookout for another game to play, another day to get out our "umbrella chairs" and kick up my feet on the fence right off to the side of home plate, yeah... that was me.

 

I sure am happy that I took every opportunity to enjoy baseball with my sons and softball with my daughters. Those are priceless memories.

 

If I could I would turn the clock back and enjoy the ride all over again, and always wonder where is the next game!

 

Enjoy each and every day that you can.

Great post.  There is one thing that needs to be stressed here though...

 

Adolescents in the 11 - 15 year age group are generally not skeletally mature.  There are some conditions that do not happen to skeletally mature athletes.  There are also conditions that generally do not happen to adolescents that begin to affect atheletes more when they are full grown.   Unfortunately, some of these adolescent prevelent conditions can be career ending.  Many can be avoided if athletes are given some time to rest the parts of their body that are exposed to repeated microtrauma.  Fall baseball does not allow this to happen during the critical growth years when many of these athletes are doing damage that is irrepairable and potentially career ending or limiting. 

 

The doctors that make a living treating these injuries will tell you that offseason rest of these overused mechanisms is way more important than mechanics, etc. at certain stages of development. 

 

I understand the risk vs. reward and the numbers game, but when you are dealing with your own kid and understand that taking a couple of fall seasons off to fully rest and repair these overused mechanisms could have made a difference...

 

The crappy pitchers aren't getting used up at 12 - 13 years old.  They throw 40 pitches in the first inning and never get to 80.  The good ones are getting ridden hard, and it is not just about # of pitches in a game.  Those that throw 75 and then play 4 games the rest of the weekend at shortstop, catcher, etc. are even at more risk. 

 

The orthopedist said it to me best...If professional, fully grown, mature pitchers, with access to the best trainers and care think it is a good idea to rest for minimum of 4 days after throwing 80 pitches, why is it a good idea for a physically immature athlete to play 4 more games the same weekend?  And to never take an "offseason" to fully recover?

 

 

Originally Posted by tzer:

…The crappy pitchers aren't getting used up at 12 - 13 years old.  They throw 40 pitches in the first inning and never get to 80.  The good ones are getting ridden hard, and it is not just about # of pitches in a game.  Those that throw 75 and then play 4 games the rest of the weekend at shortstop, catcher, etc. are even at more risk. 

 

That’s so true, and so misunderstood. And what’s most troubling, is that there’s absolutely no reason for it. No one’s running up to kids that age offering them a 4 year full ride to get them to commit, or shoving a 7 figure contract in their face. There’s plenty of time for them to mature and improve with them risking their future health to gather a bunch of meaningless eye-wash.

 

The orthopedist said it to me best...If professional, fully grown, mature pitchers, with access to the best trainers and care think it is a good idea to rest for minimum of 4 days after throwing 80 pitches, why is it a good idea for a physically immature athlete to play 4 more games the same weekend?  And to never take an "offseason" to fully recover?

 

Another thing that only takes common sense to understand. The problem is, common sense ain’t so common!

 

 

I agree completely regarding 11-12 year old kids.  When I referred to young players I meant high school age (14/15 And older).

 

For the record, the majority of those playing in the Major Leagues played baseball in the Fall when they were younger. The exception would be those that were also football players.

 

Also, that off season in professional baseball is very short for many.  Between Fall and Winter many professionals are playing baseball. The reason for this is so these players can continue to improve. If Major League players are still striving to stay sharp and get better in the off season, why should high school players take time off?

 

Nobody needs to go talk to anyone in the medical profession.  None of them will tell a pitcher to throw too much.  Whatever, too much is. Too much is risking injury!  Then again, too little might not get the job done if you have high goals.

 

All that said, I understand there are situations when rest is the wisest decision.  I just see all these young pitchers doing well in the Big Leagues.  Shelby Miller, Jose Fernandez, Matt Harvey, Strasburg, Cole, etc., and I remember watching them all pitch in late October when they were in high school. For every major league pitcher someone can name that didn't pitch in the fall, I think I could name 10 that did. Not sure what that means though.

 

Also, for the record, we have seen well rested and overly careful pitchers requiring surgery.  And of course we have seen others that were over worked in high school and have surgery later on... Dylan Bundy.

 

I agree completely with the very young taking time off.  There's been many good 12 year old pitchers ruined by over use.