Fearing "failure" in baseball

What you are saying is very true---we hear this from college coaches on a regular basis---Mommy and Daddy just cannot "let go"---they do not realizie that their son can handle things on his own if they let them and in most cases are annoyed with what their parents do

I pretty much am in agreement. IMHO, the sheltered players have always had a much higher washout rate.

In short, daddyball is good for little league trophies but letting your son stand on his own merits is good for life.

Good post. I agree with what the coach said. And I am sure we have all been guilty of some of it along the way. It's just not in baseball, it's everything in life, sometimes you have to fail to pick yourself back up and get back into the game so to speak, baseball teaches those life lessons, only if you allow your players to learn and find their own way.

Believe it or not, my son saw a lot of the HS game from the bench for two years. I am really glad that he had that experience, it drove him to work harder so not to see it from the bench, although as a pitcher you do watch most of it from there. We also never ran to the coach to ask for more "pitching" time, or hitting time, even though being a good hitter, he had to accept his role as a pitcher only until he became a senior. On his own he asked to be more involved in the game last year in HS.

As often happens, in college there were many failures, he was told that players who fail early in the college game seem to accept it as part of the game and learn from the experience, those that fail later on often can't handle it. Many phone calls over 3 years about doubting whether he was in the right place, we just listened and when he did lose his weekend start at one time, we never said a word. That was a good move by the coach, for a week, back up and running. I was shocked to find out that parents often DO call college coaches to ask why their son isn't playing more. Some get really upset when told, "because he isn't the best at his position". Then somehow it becomes the coaches fault. And then, worst of all, you have the parent (often dad) telling the player what to do to change things to get better, which toally screws things up even more. There were a lot of things my husband saw son doing in the college game he thought was wrong, but he kept his mouth shut and left it up to the coach to fix. If he thought the coach wasn't fixing it, he would have told him to seek better help, he actually stopped coaching son when he went off to HS. He only gave advice when asked.
Saddest thing I ever saw was a dad sitting behind the backstop at games. He did this to remind his son he was there so he would throw harder to get noticed. The harder he threw the more his mechanics became a mess.

We found excuses just like others do as to why aon wasn't performing as expected, but looking back now, I realize that this game, is all about failure, and how you come back or don't come back from it. And you have to learn to do that on your own.

BTW, I think that parents fear the failure more than their players.

One of our kids . who had his schlarship all signed sealed and delivered called me up during the latter part of his HS season to ask me " Coach what can I do. Everytime Coach comes to see meI stink up the joint." I told him it was very simple " Just call him the day before you know you are going to have a good game and tell him to come to that game."

All he did was laugh---that, to me ,is what it is all about.

I saw him this past weekend and he was still laughing

quote:

BTW, I think that parents fear the failure more than their players.

Agree 100% TPM. I remember talking about my own failures in the game with my son at an early age. I like to think it helped him better accept losing, but it also helped me keep things in perspective.

quote:

Originally posted by spizzlepop:
I remember talking about my own failures in the game with my son at an early age.

spizzlepop, I did that with mine too.
By the time I finished I hardly noticed he had left for college.

Interesting topic.

Managing failure is one of the harder things to do in baseball. They have been running a 2 hour documentary (ESPNU) on Auggie Garrido and it is clear he spends a good deal of his time teaching kids how to deal with it. The program is certainly worth watching if people get the chance.

Many players who are in pro ball have always been stand outs on their teams...... some players go from HS all the way to the MLB with out knowing what failure is.
But it will happen and if it happens on the big stage its there for the whole world to see.... Better know failure at a young age and learn to keep your head on stright.

I always knew who my better players were not when they were going good but when they were not doing so well. How did they handle failure because if you cant handle it this game will weed you out. On the way up a player no matter how good is going to get to a point where he looks around and sees that everybody is just as good or even better. Now what?
a friend of mine son was always doing well. Little league tournament teams this all star team that. Had a good high school experience. Went to college and as a freshman had limited playing time. It was a big adjustment. one that was met by my kid should be playing etc etc etc. I explained you have to pay your dues work a little harder etc etc. Maybe this was the first time the kid had to work a little. everybody was not telling him how good he was. who knows. but to all those out there players and parents. no matter how good you are or think you are the time will come when you have to prove it. things might happen to you that you feel are not "fair" a word of advice life is not fair and you better get used to it. the road to success is paved with lot of bumps. How you take the bumps has a lot to do with your navigating that road.

Good topic and some very good points. “Failure” will always be part of baseball and good players need to handle it ---- but NEVER get used to it!! I would like to point out one thing. Parents always get the “heat” for being over protective when it comes to every kid not acting the same. I know there are over protective parents but is not always the case when a kid has a “baseball problem”. Kids can become very frustrated on their own when thing don’t happen as they want (happens to me and I’m 62 years old). They can’t handle it simply because they can’t handle it and has nothing to do with the over protective parent. I used to continually point out to my son that “it’s just a game” when he became frustrated. I wasn’t being over protective but trying to help him to keep everything in perspective.

I think a lot of this is just idle talk by coaches. Coaches want their kids to play with passion but without emotion --- virtually impossible if you ask me. Understand too that coaches (at any level) don’t like parents involved in their son's sports) --- PERIOD. They want to blame parents for every idiosyncrasy that every kid has.

Winners have trouble handling failure. Looses accept failure as part of their destiny. Njbb makes a good point about players that are obvious winners. ---- “some players go from HS all the way to the MLB with out knowing what failure is.”
The newspapers yesterday included an article about Derrick Rose the University of Memphis player that was the #1 draft pick of the Chicago Bulls. I thought a point they made makes the point made by njbb. Rose wasn't used to losing at Memphis, and by joining the Bulls, he might not have to get used to it at the NBA level.

While we’re on the subject of over protective parents I want to point out that Derrick Rose also led a very protective childhood in Chicago. His brother Reggie didn’t allow him to even have friends or play on a team he didn’t coach.

From a Nov, 07 newspaper article.
Because of his background, Reggie Rose recognized the street agents, drug dealers and others ready to move in on the young star. So along with his brothers, Dwayne and Allan, they built a protective wall around Derrick and kept most everyone else out, providing the same sense of security he had felt in his grandmother's living room.
"I said, I need to cover this up right away before it gets out of hand," he said. "I didn't have any other choice."
In the support system they built, Derrick was always monitored closely. His whereabouts and even his friends were subject to constant scrutiny.

Fungo

.


Great thread! One of my favorites....So much wisdom here...

Agreed...

The simple reality is that no matter what his statistics, his resume, his genetics, his politics, his parents, his travel team, his school, his draft round...every one of our sons will reach a point in baseball(or in life) where he will be "looking up". A time when he will have to beat out or overcome a player of equal of higher ability...

...and at this point there will be no one there to "make things right" for him. No parents, no coaches, no boss, no umpire. His tools will be nothing other than his own work ethic, his passion, his perseverence, his faith and belief in himself. And he will have to get it done by himself.

Those who have already spent lifetime doing so will be a great deal more ready. Those who have spent a lifetime being are politiced, parented, slotted, into spots, will either find those skills quickly, or fail, or quit.

The challenge is clear. Develop an ability to overcome or perish athletically. As a result the path of success in baseball and in life is a great deal more about mental skills and resources and the development of them over time than it is statistics. IMO, one of the most important roles of a parent is developing mental skills, even above success. Lifetime tools are more important than short term press, resume builders, public relations and empty feel good.

44
.

.

On a related note.....based upon others postings above extolling the value of failure/challenge in the process of development....I find it interesting that conventional HSBBW wisdom that a player must always, always PLAY. That there is little value, and great athletic danger in patience, perseverance, and hunger and earning ones turn over some time...and therefore in developing an ability to overcome future failure and challenge.

44
.

quote:

Originally posted by observer44:
.

On a related note.....based upon others postings above extolling the value of failure/challenge in the process of development....I find it interesting that conventional HSBBW wisdom that a player must always, always PLAY. That there is little value, and great athletic danger in patience, perseverance, and hunger and earning ones turn over some time...and therefore in developing an ability to overcome future failure and challenge.

44
.

Excellent thoughts! Failure in the long run can be success.

What a great topic. I will admit to being one of "those" parents who was always able to work with JT, Jr during slumps from LL up thru HS...and he never had to deal with failure UNTIL a major slump his Freshman year in college. With him playing in town (and living in the basement), it was the most frustrating time I have had as a parent (and he as a player). However, as he found himself benched, he LEARNED (thru his coaches, and not me) what he needed to do to work through it...as it was mental more than anything. Eventually, he worked his way back into the starting line-up and had a fine freshman season. This year, as a soph, using what he had learned ON HIS OWN, he was able to avoid any long droughts this past season (and I learned the value of "hands off").

quote:

I find it interesting that conventional HSBBW wisdom that a player must always, always PLAY. That there is little value, and great athletic danger in patience, perseverance, and hunger and earning ones turn over some time...and therefore in developing an ability to overcome future failure and challenge.

Interesting thoughts ob44!

I think baseball is such a complex sport to master, that at the younger ages it is better to play. Say a player has a choice to join team A where there is no doubt he will play or team B where there might be some risk yet team B plays in a more advanced league or other situation. Would it be more valuable to potentially sit on team B or play on team A? Some might say team B teaches a kid how to compete. I guess I lean toward having kids play at the younger ages just so they can develop the mechanical skills necessary to compete.

As they get older, it may very well be better (in the long run) for a player to have to scratch and claw his way off the bench (e.g., in a more competitive college situation) rather than taking a safer route that might guarantee more playing time. There are no right and wrong answers here obviously as each player's circumstances, goals, and tolerance for risk are different.

I think every case is a different situation. A lot has to with the maturity of the kid as well as how much the parents have "protected" him.

I had a military dad so I can tell you there was mp protecting this kid and he was old school Italian to boot. I pretty much carried the same attitude--no protecting---learn how to fly on your own was the way it went


Again different strokes for different folks

I still beleive that a player should go where he will have the greatest opportunity to compete for a position. Failure is not about going in way above your head and not geting a roster spot, failure is about getting the job done where ever you are and then hitting the baseball "brick wall" and how one deals with it. Those that accept that this is very much part of the game can overcome it, others can't.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:
I still beleive that a player should go where he will have the greatest opportunity to compete for a position. Failure is not about going in way above your head and not geting a roster spot, failure is about getting the job done where ever you are and then hitting the baseball "brick wall" and how one deals with it. Those that accept that this is very much part of the game can overcome it, others can't.

Great point, TPM...and I would think this is one of the cardinal (yes, pun intended) rules when a player and parent looks at a college for the right fit,

I agree with TPM.

I think of dealing with failure as keeping your head during slumps, errors, injuries. keeping confidence.

Bottom line, once they get to college we as parents are done.They have to step up and take the challenge. No matter where they go, JC, D1, D2, etc there are going to be good players there who will all be competing. You do need to go to a school where playing time is within your reach, but going to a school where a coach tells you you will play right away isnt alwasy the best either. How can any coach tell you this. Go where you have a chance to compete, but remember from here on out it is going to be a battle. the players that are used to battling will be fine and will still have to take it a level higher, the ones who never have had to will need to kick it up also. From here on out its a dogfight. The players that thrive on the battle and the competition and who welcome that as part of the game will continue to do so the ones who cant handle it will soon know they are in over their heads. But even being in over your head, battle ,and keep up the fight. I have been amazed at how much a player matures in a years time. TPM would always tell me that I worried to much about strength and size and in a way she was right.As they continue to lift weights and mature so much added strength begins to happen naturally. One to two years makes a HUGE difference in who they are as players as they work hard.

Really interesting to read all of these points and find myself thinking, "Yep, that sounds right!"

I will say that a big surprise to me when our son entered college ball 4 years ago is the extent to which parents do still try and coach, influence, protect.

I admit that since I had watched my son throw more pitches than anyone in the universe...that from time-to-time I did offer my opinions and advice to him about why something might or might not be working. I always wondered if it had any effect at all?!?!

I also will tell you that the father of one of the very best hitters in my son's 4 years in college would fairly regularly drive over to school and throw his son some extra BP in the cages when things were slow or he was in a small slump.

And so while I think the coaches infieldad was talking too have got it about right...I also kind of resonate with this comment:

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo:
Understand too that coaches (at any level) don’t like parents involved in their son's sports) --- PERIOD. They want to blame parents for every idiosyncrasy that every kid has.

We parents do screw some things up and overstep our bounds...but we help an awful lot too. And as much as our kids (and we) try NOT to be like their (our) parents...the fact is they are what they are (including talented baseball players) in large part because of us!

And I would say while I don't really know what college coaches think about us all...I do know that a number of HS coaches I have known do fall into the trap that Fungo points out. Much like we gripe about the coach you can bet they gripe about us too!

And so I think our job as baseball parents is to try and find the balance. Yes, our kids will fail (part of life!) at times and we have to resist trying to fix every problem...otherwise how do they learn to fix them on their own? But I think we're ok to step in from time-to-time and try and stop the failures from getting out of hand. The really good coaches understand and appreciate that.

quote:

I think our job as baseball parents is to try and find the balance.

Amen! I might add that it appears there is no standard for balance.

Here are two COMPLETLY different approaches and both work:
Larry Jones Sr. does it one way:
Chipper's father, the senior Larry Wayne Jones, a retired high school math teacher and coach, has been Chipper's personal batting instructor all his life. The father and son, an only child, speak by phone almost every night, postgame, when the Braves are home.

fanofgame does it another:
Bottom line, once they get to college we as parents are done. They have to step up and take the challenge.

In personally think we all fall somewhere in-between “no involvement” and “extremely involved” and we as individual parents have to do as justbaseball suggest --- “try and find the balance”.

Recently in a slump, I heard that Colby Rasmus' dad came down to work with him to adjust his swing and approach.
Often Dads who have been lifelong coaches and helped to get a player where he is remain their lifelong coaches.
There's nothing wrong with making suggestions. I agree that no one knows a player better than the dad who worked with him for many years. I don't think that college coaches mind that. I have often heard husband and pitching coach discuss subtle changes in delivery and why in casual conversation. I think that one needs to consider the source, who is coaching your son and their success at their job.
A parents job is never done, even when they head off to college, or beyond only the involvement changes. The parent needs to know when to open mouth and when to keep it closed. The player also needs to know that dad (or mom) can't solve their problems on the field. He might have to learn to give it up also.

JMO.

.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM: ....The parent needs to know when to open mouth and when to keep it closed. The player also needs to know that dad (or mom) can't solve their problems on the field.
JMO.

Exactly. Many don't.

44
.

Just baseball makes a good point for a new topic...Would our sons be where they are now if not for parent involvement??? It wasn't the college coaches that developed their recruits....

This is a great topic with many well thought out posts. I for one have been moved to evaluate and re-evaluate my approach to Cody's baseball experience.

We are just at the start of the High School baseball experience. Although I haven't suggested to any coaches how often or where he ought to play I wonder if I have hovered just a bit too much. Thanks to all for the food for thought.

quote:

Originally posted by bkekcs:
We are just at the start of the High School baseball experience. Although I haven't suggested to any coaches how often or where he ought to play I wonder if I have hovered just a bit too much. Thanks to all for the food for thought.

I would stay away as much as possible except for games...but certainly be a helpful booster parent as much as possible.