Fellow Posters...need some more eyes on this situation

Cumberland or Lee?

What school is academically more desirable?
Does one have a better degree or department in what he is interested in?
What about living situation comparisons, quality of life?
Take baseball away, which school would he prefer?
For the walk on school what about specifics as far as the pitching situation? Who is there and who have they brought in? How does he stack up against the pitchers for both schools?

Are you saying your son would commute to school every day and it's 30 miles each way? If so that sounds very difficult to me. Your son will be putting in really long days and to do this commute would be dangerous. If your son selects this school could he live near by campus at your expense? One of the best parts of college for my son has been living on campus and then living off campus (near school) with baseball room mates this last year.

He has to separate his sentimentality from the D2 schools offer. It's great he feels a connection because of watching games there for years but is it really the best offer for him? What is their track record of retaining players? Have they kept walk-ons in the past? You can figure this out by reading past rosters and talking to players on the team.

How do the academics compare? Is there clearly a better fit for your son?

Good luck and keep us posted. Great "problem" for your son to have!

Take your lad, go up to Pineisle, rent one of the 56-footer houseboats and cruise around for a day......discuss all the great questions posed here, relax, enjoy....it'll come to him.

Which coach does he trust?

The 30 miles round trip isn't that big an issue, Heck we drove that far to our high school. It also sounds like he would certainly be a preferred walk on and BOF has some very good things to look out for.

I go with BOF's thinking. Unless you want to go into the coaching business, baseball for almost everyone ends when they graduate. Think long term.

What does he want to do when he graduates? Which school is going to prepare him for his next step in life. I think I'm thinking along the same lines as BOF and dominick on this one. Very few will call baseball a paying job after college. Does the D2 school offer more academic choices that interest your son? If so, what looks to be more risky may actually be a safer play for his next life step.

However, if baseball is his next life step, which school can best help him there?

YGD,
I beleive that the next step out of HS, should always be about a player's education, not the next level of baseball. Of course there are a lot of things that factor into that, being happy probably the most important. Being happy encompasses a lot of things and means different things to different people. In other words, it's very easy for us to give advice not really knowing what would make your son happy, so I do suggest a very serious discussion between you and him. I do know that we want to do what is best for our children, but we also have to look at other things as well, having your education paid for takes a burden off of you as a parent in a tough economy and a financial burden off of him later in life against student loans, etc. Make sure you understand the rules regarding the funds from the state, here in FL if you do not apply for them each year they are lost I think somewhere between the second or 3rd year out of HS(not sure about that but I remember being told son had to make sure he didn't lose his state money if he ever had to come back here).

Being a walk on doesn't mean he will take a lessor role, but make sure and understand what that means in this particular situation. I understand the coach likes him, he is putting pressure on him without a commitment on his part, are they willing to give him some money next year or when it becomes free to show some love?

I am not in favor of the commute thing, that's an hour a day 5-6 hours a week, that can be used for more productive things in an already tight situation where student athletes need to make good use of their time. Part of this experience is living with your teammates and being a part of student life on campus or close by. The total experience shouldn't be just about baseball or just about going to school. My son loved his college baseball experience, but he also loved doing and participating in other activities as well, his time off from the field and baseball was very important to him.

quote:

I am not in favor of the commute thing, that's an hour a day 5-6 hours a week, that can be used for more productive things in an already tight situation where student athletes need to make good use of their time. Part of this experience is living with your teammates and being a part of student life on campus or close by. The total experience shouldn't be just about baseball or just about going to school. My son loved his college baseball experience, but he also loved doing and participating in other activities as well, his time off from the field and baseball was very important to him.

We obviously don't know all the details here but it sounds to me like both opportunities are outstanding. Nice problem to have YGD and congrats to your son for persevering through adversity!

Wow. This is exactly why I decided to post this here because I knew all you good folks would pose questions, concerns, thoughts that I haven't even began to think of.

Let me see if I can answer some here to help clarify some of what you brought up.

BOF:

The D2 seems to be more academically desirable but they both offer Secondary Education in which he wants to be a HS teacher/coach one day. Which one has more to offer overall...? Id say the D2 clearly.

As far as living conditions and quality of life...if he chose the D2 I guess his living conditions would be superb...mom to wash his clothes, eat home cooking, sleep in his own room, etc. lol. Can't be home. (I say this without knowing 100% sure if they are going to offer room & board or not). The NAIA is in an old town with practically and literally nothing to do except fish when not practicing. However, they have a decent size large town 10min away to visit.

I guess if you took baseball away he would choose the D2 only because it's close to home and he has old HS friends who go there. However, being away from home last year (5hrs) he grew to love being away and gaining independence. Toss up on this one.

This one is the sticky one...the pitching situation for both schools. The D2 has 14 pitchers on staff for next year with at least 2 that I've read or heard of coming in. 3 are on his summer team and, well, struggle mightly which concerns me of their depth next year more than anything. The NAIA lost no pitching with the conference pitcher of the year coming back. This coach as told son that his stuff is good enough to be in the rotation but he will earn the spot. Fair enough I thought.

As far as stacking up, he feels with how he is pitching this summer that on both teams he could be both staff's #1, and with his stats I can't argue with him. Just a confidence from him which I'm glad to see after this spring.

CaBB..it's 15 miles 1 way so a 30 mile round trip. And all of you know how arduous that can be if/when they are called for tarp duty, etc. As far as living on or nearby campus is what I WANT him to experience as he has the past 2 years. This year more than ever I can't afford to pay for him to live on or near the school. I'm really hoping they will surprise him tomorrow with a solution to this. Heck, this one fact alone could help sway the decision for him because he doesnt want to stay at home and commute but also knows we can't afford to pay for a room.

The D2 has had a player or 2 each year not come back for whatever reason. I know nothing of the NAIA program but the coach is new so I wouldn't have any way of finding that out.

From a greedy "parent" point of view, the D2 would be ideal of his family to be able to come watch many games instead of having to travel 3+ hours! But I don't say this to him! I keep this fact in my head and yes, on the tip of my tongue. lol.

Which coach does he trust and like? The NAIA coach. We've never heard many positives about the D2 coach but then again he has never even talked to him. So tomorrow will be quite interesting to say the least.
Good point Collegeparent.

TPM and FOG...again...I agree with you both about the "experience" of living and being around your teammates. To me it's just the college experience you want them to have. I don't want him driving home after having their butts handed to them during practice. I want him to be nearby so he can get there in 2 shakes of a lambs tail and rest, shower, etc. As far as the "walk on" role, he is going to ask what all that means tomorrow. His biggest fear is that being a walk on and something happen in the fall the coach walks up and says he is cut with the snap of a finger.

It is a good problem to have and we are humbled to have these opportunities after the discouraging spring he had. We want to be sure that he finds that "fit" we all talk about on here often.

D-2! Become the Ace they need!

YGD,
You know by now that there's no guarantee even if he is the best pitcher on the staff that he'll get that job. Generally speaking the guys who have been there will get first shot and have to fail unless your son is so far ahead of them that he should be a starter at a D1.

I couldn't read between the lines to see if there were negatives about the D2 coach or if there was simply lack of knowledge.

It sounds like a couple good options and your son will decide.

[QUOTE]

Originally posted by CADad:

YGD,
You know by now that there's no guarantee even if he is the best pitcher on the staff that he'll get that job. Generally speaking the guys who have been there will get first shot and have to fail unless your son is so far ahead of them that he should be a starter at a D1.

[QUOTE]

CaDad, I couldn't wholeheartedly agree with you more on this statement. I've always told him that he'd appreciate his role a whole lot more if he went and earned it instead of one just being given to him. And he has found that to be true. With that being said, son never really puts a lot of weight on this point of being told he's going to be a starter, starting rotation, etc. He truly wants to go out and earn the spot.

You were perceptive in trying to determine if there was "something" about this D2 coach or not. He does have a reputation for yanking a pitcher in a jiffy, thus, earning the name Cap'n Hook. Seriously. But what coach doesn't have some kind of hiccup or reputation? You know? So I'm trying my best to not let that play too much of a role in his decision. You perform, you play. If not, you sit. I've always believed that.

Also, there are suppose to be a couple dozen 4yr schools in attendance at tomorrow nights All Star game. There were other JUCO players who were chosen that are position players. My son is the only JUCO pitcher chosen and he has 1 inning to impress. lol. Each team has 9 pitchers and each will throw 1 inning. The other 17 pitchers are all 4yr college pitchers so for them it's just a walk in the park. lol. Maybe, just maybe, we'll have a whole new set of problems to have after tomorrow.

Here's to wishful thinking anyways.

OK - It's unlikely he's going to come in and be the ace of the staff. I thought that too about my son and I was deluded like most Dads. There are too many factors that will get in the way.

The commute isn't that long, but usually college practice starts sometime after 2:30 and goes until 7 with morning weightlifting. At our son's school that was at 6:30 a.m. or earlier. Obviously it's a lot easier to get there if you live there. Otherwise, he is up at 5:30 to get out of the house to be there at 6 a.m.. No one is ever late. Ideally he will live on campus. If not, can he commute with someone on the team?

As far as cutting people - because he is a pitcher, it is highly unlikely he will be cut especially if the head coach is coming to persuade him to come to his school and he is as good as you say. You must do your due diligence and check out the coach's track record.

Fishing is fun, but every day? I would make my decision based on the academics (which several posters have already covered), and their promise of a scholarship next year.

In the end, it is easy to see which school wants him the most - tha is the one that pays the most. If the D2 cannot give him a scholarship, can they give him financial aid, training table, or a work/study job (related to his academic goals) to make it viable for you and your family?

After you think about these things and discuss it with the head coach, then let your son make the decision.

One thing to remember in all of this, although time is not on your son's side, make sure he chooses for the right reasons, and in this case don't base much of it on whether he likes or dislies a coach, chances are he will find out like many, the honeymoon is over very quickly.

Using one inning to impress coaches he doesn't know is not always the right path but as said, time is important. Coaches see players once and realize later they made a mistake, players meet coaches once and realize later they made am mistake also.

Take more into consideration where he will be most comfortable and school. If being colse to home is it, fine, if getting everything paid for is it, fine.

It's not a bad thing if coaches pull you early, they have their reasons, sometimes they see teh mechanics go downhill quickly, that's a good thing, sometimes teh game is at stake and they don't have time for you to figure it out. That's just the way it is in many situations, that shouldn't be a negative factor.

Brod, great observations.

I do feel like my son can pitch but like you said there are factors unbeknownst to us at this time that most likely will prohibit this from ever happening. At the NAIA, they are bringing their entire pitching staff back and it was a darn good one best I can tell. Talk about cracking a tough shell. Barring injury, academics, mischief, etc. it would certainly be a task. The coach knows what this staff can do. The D2 has I think 2 pitchers next year who will be weekend starters meaning that leaves 1 spot open.

He is going to ask the coach about the commute thing, i.e. problems he has dealt with in the past, when does practice/weight lifting begin each day, etc.

Son isnt a big fisherman..lol. Ball has always seemed to take precedence but what a great place to learn! lol.

Me and wife agree with you about the school/coach who wants you the most will undoubtedly show it by their different resources. In the end we'd really love son to go where he feels his heart is telling him and we'd make it work out. Long ago I use to think that whoever offered the most, that's where he'd go. Easy and simple. But it's not all about that as I've learned along the way.

TPM, I do believe that all the other schools that show up tomorrow night will just be the beginning of talks if some happen to like him. I'd skin his head if he made a choice after 1 encounter with a coach..lol.

I think after tomorrow he'll know a lot more than he does now. I've showed him this thread to read and he said that it really gave him some good questions to ask. We are both very appreciative of all your time and thoughts.

YGD

I don't see the commute thing as an issue. A 15 minute ride in the morning and in the evening is a great way to clear the mind.

My reading between the lines here sounds like the D2 is the favored option. I would not downgrade the NAIA option. There are NAIA's out there that are better than D1's.

I agree with the money argument above. The guy putting up the money is putting his money where his mouth is.

quote:

The guy putting up the money is putting his money where his mouth is.

I think it's dangerous to say "whoever offers the most $ wants me the most"

That might be true in a vacum, but what if one school has 9 scholarhsips and one has 4? What if one used most of their $ to sign guys early and don't have as much left in the summer months?

If you can afford it, pick the best school because once you get to school I can assure you that the scholarship amount means NOTHING to anyone (except maybe the parents ego).

I have no real reason to be, but I'm often skeptical of the "we have no money" pitch. I know it happens, but is it always the truth, or are they witholding some funds for some as-yet-to-be-identified golden boy?

I've heard enough horror stories from guys ON scholarship to be extra leery of guys being asked to come without one.

Colleges have budgets and NCAA/NAIA/NJCAA limitations to what they can do. When you start saying "my son is worth $$$$ amount, then you are expecting that this school is just going to say "ta da" and there it is. The reality is that almost every top level competitive school is out of money in the middle of July. The main exceptions would be a late transfer situation or a school that does credits per kid recruited (for another thread)....to expect a top level d2/naia to have $ sitting around means that they didn't do their job earlier on.

Also Krakatoa....funny how the kid they want to give the $ to in your analogy is the "golden boy" who should they be giving it to? Kids who suck?

quote:

Also Krakatoa....funny how the kid they want to give the $ to in your analogy is the "golden boy" who should they be giving it to? Kids who suck?

That's quite the unnecessary rhetorical question, don't you think? (Hey, there's another one!)

IF they have anything, they need to give it to the kid they are begging to come to their school. There's no way to know, and I'm certainly not saying that's the case here. YGD is a long-time friend of mine and I'm pulling for his kid from every angle.

quote:

The reality is that almost every top level competitive school is out of money in the middle of July.

That depends on the draft.Many kids sign late, and some schools really don't know exactly where they are at until after the draft.My son was offered his scholarship three days before the school year began, because somebody signed at the last minute and they had scolly money.

Just a quick update.

It rained for 4 HOURS before they started the All Star game last night. Needless to say, attendance was a little low except for the dedicated, die-hard family members! And about 6 MLB Scouts. They were hilarious.

So the coach never showed up. Worse thing that happened all night for son was he was getting ready in the BP to come in to pitch the 8th inning. The bottom drops out and rains cats and dogs immediately following the 7th! Needless to say, that was what he was upset about above anything else..lol.

We've had some lengthy conversations over the past 2 days and it looks like the NAIA is going to win out in his decision. He said it just feels right to him and the prospect of playing on a very talented team next year really pumps him up.

Thank you all so very much for your input. If anything were to change, I'll catch you up!

YGD

YGD,

Sent you a PM.