Field Size

These kids are playing freshman ball on 60/90 so what good would it do to play summer ball at 54/80? I don't quite get that.

I think this is more of a debate at the 13u level, especially if you start your team in the fall, after they "age up" but when most of your team is still shy of their 13th birthday. If you have a bunch of kids who are having trouble, e.g., making the throw across the infield, it's not a bad transition size until they get more used to it.

Our experience was that although we thought about going 54/80 at age 13, we couldn't find anyone to play us at that size, and we couldn't find any fields at that size. So we just went 60/90 and found out that the kids adapted faster than we ever thought possible.

I don't think 14u's should be on a 54/80 diamond. You're not doing them any favors at that age to continue "playing down". You may as well put your 14-year-old in 6th grade and then brag on his GPA. Frankly I've never heard of 54/80 at the 14u level, and I can't recall seeing any travel team worth its salt that struggled because of the 60/90 dimensions. (Maybe for other reasons, though.)

Even Little League plays 60/90 in the Junior grouping (13/14 age level). Yeah, it gets sloppy, but if they can hack it, and if kids at that age have hacked it for decades now, what's the problem?

When my son was 14 the league played 60'/90 but many tournaments offered both. We backed out of one because we were told it would be 60/90 but it wasn't. I think it was best because in fall ball in high school it was 60/90.
However I watched some of those 54'/80 teams play and there were some good ones out there. Think about trying to hit a good pitcher 6feet closer. They were bringing it. Kind of like those 12yr old little leaguers.
I wouldn't worry too much either way. They get good fielding experience by going 60'/90 but 54'/80 against a good pitcher could be tougher to hit.
Just don't bounce back and forth whichever one you choose stay with it.

I can't imagine kids heading into high school ball coming off a less than full size field. We played 60/90 starting with 13U (12 year olds) fall ball. Only the bad teams looked real sloppy. Starting with this past fall the local governing body for USSSA went to 54/80 just for 13U (12yo's) fall ball.

I remember two things from my son's first 13U game on a full size field. He had only turned twelve four months earlier. In his first at-bat he hit a one hop cannon shot (relative to age) at the second baseman for an easy 4-6-3 DP. He came back to the bench muttering he could't hit the ball any harder. The next at-bat he crushed one up the right-center gap for a triple. From the ground he looked up at the third base coach and asked if it would have been out of LL. Without cracking a smile the third base coach replied, "Son, you're not in LL anymore."

14's should be on 60/90.

Thank you all for helping me realize I'm not crazy. to me it's enabling these kids. Our kids got excited we were going to play 60/90.

The "play up" coaches believe the teams with the power pitchers are really not excited about moving up. They are going for one more year of dominance and winning.

My son and our shortstop moved to -3 bats in the fall league already.

Don't get me started on that one.

quote:

Originally posted by dazed63:
My son and our shortstop moved to -3 bats in the fall league already.

Very smart move.

quote:

Originally posted by dazed63:
Thank you all for helping me realize I'm not crazy. to me it's enabling these kids. Our kids got excited we were going to play 60/90.

The "play up" coaches believe the teams with the power pitchers are really not excited about moving up. They are going for one more year of dominance and winning.

My son and our shortstop moved to -3 bats in the fall league already.

Don't get me started on that one.

Beginning to learn control and command from sixty feet are far more important than pitching close up and dominating one more year of kiddie ball. What size bat a kid can swing is nothing but what you condition him. We swung -2 to 0 drop wood bats in LL (made from dinosaur bones).

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
We swung -2 to 0 drop wood bats in LL (made from dinosaur bones).

IMO, this issue is vastly over-thought by parents. Both distances are widely played in our area. Most travel squads around here (including the good ones) split time on both, yes even at the 14 level. Both size fields have their advantages and disadvantages.

54/80? Tougher on the hitter, quicker reaction time. Infield play and reaction times are closer to HS level on 60/90. Base running (stealing, bunting, infield hits, doubles are doubles not singles, etc...) more closely aligned to HS varsity ball. But a dominant pitcher with an 80+ fastball can over-dominate.

60/90? Yes, its the same size as a HS field. Probably good to get used to the dimensions for throws, baserunning, etc... But a slower game by a noticeable amount...slower than a HS varsity game by quite a bit. Pitchers tire more quickly.

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I don't think 14u's should be on a 54/80 diamond. You're not doing them any favors at that age to continue "playing down". You may as well put your 14-year-old in 6th grade and then brag on his GPA. Frankly I've never heard of 54/80 at the 14u level, and I can't recall seeing any travel team worth its salt that struggled because of the 60/90 dimensions. (Maybe for other reasons, though.)

I think its interesting to note that about 80% of the very top HS players in our area came out of a 54/80 program at ages 13 and 14. This includes quite a few "players of the year" (by my quick count 4 of the last 5 POYs) who went on to very high D1s and pro baseball. I don't really know why its that way and I'm not crediting base distances for that trend. But it just is the way it is. So I don't buy that argument at all...it just doesn't pan out around here.

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Even Little League plays 60/90 in the Junior grouping (13/14 age level). Yeah, it gets sloppy, but if they can hack it, and if kids at that age have hacked it for decades now, what's the problem?

LL is irrelevant IMO. They're the most screwed up on base distances of nearly any organization at every level except Seniors. They use 60/90 primarily because thats what they can rent from the local HS's.

Baseball players develop quickly when the game is fast and reaction times must be quick. Balance that against getting used to the bigger dimensions. Don't think it hurts anyone to do either or both.

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Most travel squads around here (including the good ones) split time on both, yes even at the 14 level.

justbaseball, I agree with your description of the different characteristics of big/small fields, and how they affect play. I would add that for dominant pitchers, a small field leads to so many strikeouts that neither offense nor defense gets much practice.

But I think you give a misleading impression of the availability of small field play for 14U teams. I think the only way that a 14 year old can play 54/80 is under the PONY organization. I don't think any other nationally-scoped tournament or league format offers it.

4 out of last 5 POYs? I'd hazard to guess that has much more to do with the quality of that particular program (due in no small part to your efforts!) than with the size of the field.

Well, I've seen many 13U tournaments at Twin Creeks or Rainbow Fields (which does everything at 54/80 doesn't it?) involving both of your son's recent teams on 54/80 when he was 13 and maybe even 14?

Or maybe I'm just merging many memories together?

I'm just gonna guess the 4 out of 5 is a coincidence as much as anything...but the point was it didn't seem to hurt them either like so many parents think it will.

I just believe this whole thing is over-thought, over-analyzed. My kids mixed both together...they just played baseball in whatever venue was available that week.

BTW, congrats on your son's performance in PR. I hope you enjoyed yourself on that trip!

Yes, generally tournaments for 13U players are 54/80. That's true for USSSA, Super Series, Triple Crown, AAU mostly, BPA, and also the local Hardtke stuff. And Babe Ruth/LL/Pony league play. But 14U is universally 60/90--except for Pony.

And except in COPABE tournaments! In Puerto Rico as well as Guatemala, as your son may remember, the distances were 16/24 meters, which is 52.5/78.75 feet. Keeps the infielders awake, and the rules prohibit the corner infielders from charging the plate in anticipation of a bunt.

Over the years, I have often read the sentiment that the dimensions of the baseball diamond are perfectly matched to human capabilities. Howard Cosell wrote that if the basepath were just 2 feet shorter, nobody could steal second, but infielders would have trouble throwing out batter/runners at first. My observation is that different field sizes do affect the game - as you described - but the effect is nowhere near as significant as Cosell thought.

Interesting I just looked at Triple Crown does play 14's at 54'80 but it seems like only in certain states that may have more weather issues than most. Kansas, Missouri and Colorado. They seem to have a choice in those states. The warmer states Florida, California, Georgia, Arizona, etc. all play 60'90. I would guess that the players in these states are prepared more at an earlier age because of playing year round.