Financing and Fall Ball/Showcases

Don't do it! Honestly is the best policy, don't finance your home to pay for travel ball, it will not return on your investment.

Continue to contact the schools and keep them informed of your interest!

With the economy going down the toilet you are going to see fewer people capable of spending $$$$$ on expensive travel sports. Look for people to play on local teams and try to play in one or two out of town tournaments during the Summer and not travel any during the Fall.

also I didnt mention is there a fall scout team he can play on. They are usually free of cost and give your player a lot of exposure.

Return on investment (If viewed that way) is impossible to calculate. How much value is a college baseball EXPERIENCE? How do you value the relationships, the discipline, the self esteem that can come from playing college ball ? When he graduates and his resume says COLLEGE BASEBALL, how do you value that ? The value is in the eye of the beholder. Only you can make this very difficult decision. There are just too many personal factors that come into play. You have however, come to the right place to get opinions, suggestions, ideas.

If you determine that you cannot afford Fall Ball you might want to find out if the coaches that are interested in him have fall camps. These camps are usually affordable. Coach gets to see him play and you get to see the school/campus. A good way to target a limited budget.

Fall is an important time for seniors to have exposure that are uncommitted.

If you cannot afford it, then you cannot afford it. These are tough times, IMO, there are more important things that need attention than baseball (like eating and paying for your mortgage). And then there is paying for college next year, with or without baseball.

Have your son contact the coaches that are interested in him. Be honest as to why he can't send the schedule. Coaches appreciate honesty. It may be wiser to spend the money that you might have to only attend their camps.

Also have him contact his HS coach, he may be helpful with suggestions, or as suggested look for a scout team that is usually less costly or a local team. Attend an uncommited showcase, if avaliable in your area.

Also remember your son has until next spring, maybe a possibility that coaches will come to watch him play in HS, if local. Or as some players are now doing, taking options closer to home, which might include local JUCOs.

Don't think that you are the only one being affected by this. There are many. Your son's talent and his grades will give him an opportunity, not your wallet.

JMO.

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How much will it hurt him to not be able to play on a baseball team this fall?

Hurt? None! My son never played on a fall ball team and I still have boxes of recruiting mail. Maybe if he'd played fall ball he'd have another letter or two. He was drafted in the 5th round out of high school but chose to go to college. All this while playing in the "flyover" state of Tennessee, never playing fall ball, bypassing all the big name showcases, and attending just two college camps. There are a great number of high school athletes that play baseball and football thus eliminating their opportunities to play fall baseball. These athletes aren't ignored because they didn't play fall ball!

It's tough to do but you need to put this recruiting ride (and especially exposure) in perspective. College coaches are working their tails off trying to develop recruits. Some coach is probably reading this post right now saying ---- "Does any one know who this big strong #12 kid is that plays first base outside of Denver? Sounds like he might be a prospect. Make a few calls."
You said: "Son (incoming senior) played on a very good travel team this summer and is getting great contacts from coaches. He has a video that he sends to all who contact him." All the coaches that saw him have EVALUATED him.

Let's separate playing baseball and getting exposure. Your son will play baseball because he loves to play baseball. You on the other hand want to make sure you "purchase" enough exposure to provide him with college opportunities.
But how much do you need to spend?? To put it in a nutshell --- Exposure is necessary but redundant exposure (overexposure) cost just as much and provides very little in return. As a player increases his exposure events, the return on the exposure investment lessens. Theoretically a player could reach a point where every coach in the nation had seen him play or showcase and the next outing would provide absolutely no benefit in exposure. However if his parents are unsure if they have done enough -- he'll be at the next exposure event. Did Babe Ruth play fall ball?
Fungo

Fungo,
Good stuff.

Thanks for the reminder Fungo! We are just starting down this path and when I see and hear about what some HS rising sophomores are already doing, or have done, I get a bit overwhelmed.

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Originally posted by 55mom:
Thanks for the reminder Fungo! We are just starting down this path and when I see and hear about what some HS rising sophomores are already doing, or have done, I get a bit overwhelmed.

I was recently approached about my son playing on a fall ball team that would do a PG event this fall in addition to other tournaments. I didn't think almost 2K for fall ball was a quality investment for a fifteen year old sophomore who should be a lot bigger and stronger next year. My son doesn't need to get on the radar screen early. He just needs to hit the target when he gets there at the right time.

Jersey12,

On the flip side of Fungo, except for the local JUCO's and some pro scouts, my son was a virtual unknown until he played with Cherry Creek the fall of his junior year. They didn't play that many games which kept the cost down. If I remember right it cost $250 to play which included all expenses for the Senior Classic and to top it off they found a sponsor for $200 of it (course this was back in 2001). $1,250 not counting travel sounds more like a fundraiser for someone.

Concerning the Senior Classic, it was where my son got all the major opportunities for college baseball. That said, some teams have a history of being better teams and that is where the majority of scouts end up. One Colorado team who was at the classic was lucky to get 4 or 5 scouts to show up while others had 20 or 30 at each game.

Good luck on your decision.

On the other hand, I could give thousands of examples where attending events in the fall, or any other time of the year, proved to be extremely worthwhile.

Regarding the financial aspect...

If you are a talented player and can't afford to do something... It is important to let people know that.

There are kids who pay (they don't pay us) thousands of dollars to play in the October Jupiter Tournament. There are others who don't pay a dime!

Did Babe Ruth play fall ball?
Fungo[/QUOTE]

I believe he did, in 1915, 1916, 1918, 1921-1923, 1926-1928, and 1932.

this has made me think. times are tough right now, and looks to be for the near future as well.
many new busines's have been created from this baseball craze we live in. travel ball teams spring up everywhere, the talent is so watered down it seems you really don't get your money's worth any more. the new showcases you've never heard of,charging 4 or 5 hundred bucks. with the talent not what it used to be.

i guess my point is,how is this economy effecting them / us? are the kids that play talented or do they just have the money? is it even worth going to ?

we have a guy in town that puts a team in a local fall league, mostly the HS varsity team so the can play together a little longer. he doesn't ask for money. i think he did it when his kids played and just keeps on doing it. it's to bad more towns didn't have guy's like that.

My son also never played on a fall ball team. And only in his Senior summer/fall did he attend (2) showcases (1 was special invite and other at a premier JUCO that is unbelievable to attend). What prepared my son to get noticed was playing on a quality, competitive summer ball team his Junior and Senior year. He always took the time in the fall to work on mechanics, run, lift, etc. It also allowed his arm a good time to heal from all the pitching he did in the summer.

55mom, I know exactly what you mean about looking around and seeing others doing this or that and wondering if you're missing out. As long as your son is doing some great and beneficial off-season training, i.e. personal training and baseball, then he isn't missing out.

During his sophomore year be trying to find him a competitive summer ball team to play on.

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Originally posted by RJM:

quote:

Originally posted by 55mom:
Thanks for the reminder Fungo! We are just starting down this path and when I see and hear about what some HS rising sophomores are already doing, or have done, I get a bit overwhelmed.

I was recently approached about my son playing on a fall ball team that would do a PG event this fall in addition to other tournaments. I didn't think almost 2K for fall ball was a quality investment for a fifteen year old sophomore who should be a lot bigger and stronger next year. My son doesn't need to get on the radar screen early. He just needs to hit the target when he gets there at the right time.

Honestly, we would like son to get an idea this fall about what to expect next spring/summer. I don't so much have an issue with early exposure - it's the Over Exposure that gets me! One pretty good pitcher seems to have lost 3-4 (or more) mph due to playing constantly this summer. Parents have to be smart about things!

In fact son has his first PG event coming up. We were really on the fence - but think the experience will be worth it. I hope he does well of course, but expect the older guys to get the attention.

2K seems like a lot for a few months though!

quote:

Originally posted by 55mom:

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:

quote:

Originally posted by 55mom:
Thanks for the reminder Fungo! We are just starting down this path and when I see and hear about what some HS rising sophomores are already doing, or have done, I get a bit overwhelmed.

I was recently approached about my son playing on a fall ball team that would do a PG event this fall in addition to other tournaments. I didn't think almost 2K for fall ball was a quality investment for a fifteen year old sophomore who should be a lot bigger and stronger next year. My son doesn't need to get on the radar screen early. He just needs to hit the target when he gets there at the right time.

Honestly, we would like son to get an idea this fall about what to expect next spring/summer. I don't so much have an issue with early exposure - it's the Over Exposure that gets me! One pretty good pitcher seems to have lost 3-4 (or more) mph due to playing constantly this summer. Parents have to be smart about things!

In fact son has his first PG event coming up. We were really on the fence - but think the experience will be worth it. I hope he does well of course, but expect the older guys to get the attention.

2K seems like a lot for a few months though!

$700 is for airfare, lodging and meals to one showcase.

This is a really good topic, no I mean this is a great topic with great advice and great opinions.

After reading my response and some others, it occured to me that out of the 4 years my son was in HS he played 2 fall ball seasons, one going into his freshman year, the other into his junior year. It also included local tounaments and his junior year the wood bat in Jupiter. The costs to join were minimal and so were tournies. No one was out to make a dime on our kids, just to help them get organized and provide instruction and a chance to get better and be seen.
If I remember correctly, there were very few coaches who attended (except for wood bat in Jupiter), now realizing possibly they are very busy with their own teams in fall practice and running camps.
I firmly beleive the best exposure is summer baseball. Fungo brings up good points, if the coaches have already seen him play, why send the schedule? If they haven't, try to get on their campus to strut your stuff.
Frank has given you great advice for someone living in your neck of the woods.
I am thinking about 20Dads post, are the kids that play often, attend every showcase, event, etc.,really that talented or can they just afford to?
And as 55mom posts, it all becomes so overwhelming to hear about what some people do these days (spend lots of money). Yes, that's their business, but never feel that is something that you have to do that to achieve your goal. It's funny, but it all comes down to being in the right place at the right time.
JMO.

Hi all -- and thanks for the great advice.

Just a note -- I didn't realize that I was using my son's outdated profile. He is an incoming senior -- 17 years old. Sorry for the confusion.

We can only afford what we can afford. It's sad that this sport is leaning towards those who have money are the one's that get to play. We'll keep looking for some type of team that we can afford for him to play with. Hopefully his skill, his grades (3.4 GPA) and his test scores (28 ACT and 1750 SAT) will get him in to a good school where he can still play ball.

Thanks again all!

quote:

Did Babe Ruth play fall ball?
Fungo

I believe he did, in 1915, 1916, 1918, 1921-1923, 1926-1928, and 1932.

Good point!

I never said fall ball or any fall event didn't provide exposure. Just about EVERYTHING a player does provides exposure. Let's just not go berserk if we can't make them all. Compare it to finding a mate. EVERY club, church, bar, university, workplace, shopping mall in town has an available woman/man. That doesn't mean you have to hit every place or event to find what you're looking for.

No matter what single event is mentioned whether it be a summer team, a showcase, a combine, a fall ball event, a scout team, a college camp, a pro workout, a recruiting service or even a high school team there will be a group, or an individual, stand up and give an honest ringing endorsement of that event. My goal is to ease the minds of parents that are trying to sort through this barrage of well meaning endorsements and help them understand they don't have to do it all. I think we need to read between the lines in Jersey12's post. Her post exemplifies the true feelings of many parents when she asks: How much will it hurt him to not be able to play on a baseball team this fall? ----- HURT? That's a strong word! People do drastic things to avoid being hurt. Does Jersey12 need to take drastic action to avoid being hurt? I say NO.
Fungo

Jersey12,

I hope this thread has given you some reassurance. Many kids do not play Fall ball for a variety of reasons ( job, others sports, choose not to, too expensive, etc. ), and the good news is, ....it still all works out.

Make sure your son stays in shape,...still works out hard, eats healthy, and keeps up with his grades. Perhaps he'd like to use this Fall time to dive into something new his senior year? ( part time job, different sport, school club, etc. etc. )

One's senior year is a busy time. Let him use this time to his advantage and be a kid. Make sure he keeps in contact with the college coaches he has made contact with and I wouldnt be afraid to tell them why he isnt playing Fall ball. Bottom line,..its just not in the family budget this year. He's not alone. There are many in the same boat.

He'll be playing in the Spring, so reassure the coaches they will get his Spring schedule as soon as it comes out.

Family comes first.

Forgive my sarcasm but it seems that if you have a checkbook somebody will convince you to get the pen and start filling in numbers.

quote:

Compare it to finding a mate. EVERY club, church, bar, university, workplace, shopping mall in town has an available woman/man. That doesn't mean you have to hit every place or event to find what you're looking for.

The divorce rate is at an all time high!

What if your most perfect mate only hangs out at the church, but you hang out at the Bar. Or vice versa!

We have found a way of approaching this problem--we do not demand that players sign up for the entire fall---if we want them to play with us and give them the exposure that we can give them we are willing to accommodate their needs by allowing them to play as few or as many events as they want---we have found that it works well and does not strangle the players family bank account.

All we ask is that they let us know in advance as to what events they will be attending so we do not come up short on players at an event. By the end of the fall season we may have as many as 40 players who have come thru the roster

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
We have found a way of approaching this problem--we do not demand that players sign up for the entire fall---if we want them to play with us and give them the exposure that we can give them we are willing to accommodate their needs by allowing them to play as few or as many events as they want---we have found that it works well and does not strangle the players family bank account.

All we ask is that they let us know in advance as to what events they will be attending so we do not come up short on players at an event. By the end of the fall season we may have as many as 40 players who have come thru the roster

We used to call them hired guns or sand baggers

Just kidding, that can help some families, as well as, programs giving scholarships to players possibly in exchange to services like helping in other functions of the group.

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The divorce rate is at an all time high!

Good point and how true! I'm sure baseball players are transferring at an alarming rate too.

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What if your most perfect mate only hangs out at the church, but you hang out at the Bar. Or vice versa!

True again but the same happens in baseball too. The college coach where the baseball player would be a perfect "fit" might be scouting a ball game in Texas and the player might be showcasing in Oklahoma.

Some can't get enough exposure no matter what the cost. We were in Wilmington, NC at the East Coast Pro and I noticed players and scouts leaving early. Seems as if both were leaving one national showcase early so they could catch the plane to attend another national event in California.

Wonder how many of them were on same flight

I can see it now - a scout in a middle seat with a player and a parent on the other, sitting next to each other for 6 hours without enough leg room.

quote:

What if your most perfect mate only hangs out at the church, but you hang out at the Bar. Or vice versa!

i'd hate to think i'd been married for 28 yrs to a woman who is not my perfect mate.................. but there is comfort in knowing she might have been the one on the short end of the stick,lol

I think that way TR does is a great idea. We often played on teams but not everyone was required to attend. As long as you let coaches know your plans, they always seemed to be ok with it. If you didn't show up when you said you would, you were off teh team. That kept costs down but costs were lower then. Not forcing players to play every game either due to finances or other commitments, family vacation, school visitations, or just to have anight off, shows the coaches commitment to do what is right, that would be giving players a team to show their skills to obtain interest, when they want to. One coach that we had, often allowed players to play on other local teams for tournaments (like wood bat) if he thought they might be sitting too much (usually position players).
During summer before son left for college, he played a summer travel team but because he had a commitment, younger players being recruited pitched before him, his biggest role was during regionals and finals. The coach loved to win like everyone else, but his program was based on helping players get exposure, not taking their money for profit.

this post hits home to me, as my '09 is playing for a high profile team this fall. Yes, it will cost alot of $$. But he hasn't had the exposure in the past that he needs to get noticed. He's not a D1 stud. He's probably a D2/D3 kid with average grades. But he really wants to play in college, and I think it will help give him structure instead of going to college to party.

Can I afford every tournament this fall? Absolutely not. But we will do what we can. I consider it an "investment", not because I think he'll get a scholarship, but because it will open doors that we didn't even know existed until now. And beyond that, he just likes to play with and against the best players he can.

(not to mention I love being there too!!)

My initial response to Fungo was, "yeah, but your kid was incredibly talented, and to be drafted in the 5th round, means that he was a known commodity", therefore your example isn't really germaine.

Then I thought back to our fall exposure experiences and thought Fungos point more valid.

Unlike Fungos son, ours was not known. He played fall ball for the HS and at the beginning of the season was throwing hard and dominating. One pro scout came to see him and was impressed.

A month later he was 8 -10 mph lower in velocity and struggling with control. Went to a showcase in GA. and suddenly control and velocity came back, and had a very favorable outcome.

10 days later at PG WWBA in Jupiter, no velocity or control and stunk up the joint. Dozens of schools that were interested almost walked away. Pitched two innings there a couple of days later, velocity still down, but showed flashes of great curveball and had control.

We found out two days after he got home, he had been suffering from mononucleosis.

I suppose the point is, that without the exposure at the showcases, he would have been much more limited in interest. Even though his performances were up and down, there was enough evidence there that he could play if the coach took the time to piece it all together. Some did, some didn't. Overall it turned out to be very important to him. He wound up pitching for and meeting his current college coach who had never heard of him before seeing him at the PG event.

I think there is enough evidence for both, needing fall exposure and not needing it. It seems though that the mitigating factor would be, how known is the quantity at the point you make the decision, and what is the sincere interest level from coaches at that point.

Tough spot you're in. I wouldn't mortgage the farm for the exposure, but I would do anything I could to get him somewhere and playing if possible, even if it were a rec league, just so the coaches could come see him.