Finding a place to play college ball

OBrady,
IMo, there are many opportunities for crafty lefties.
You can't nibble and nibble in college, it bites back at you. A starter gets too tired and a reliever has to keep his team in the game or closer has to come in for the kill. Don't tell anyone he is a nibbler.
You can't just send letters and make calls, you got to go where they can see your son play. How are his grades? What about JUCO? Sometimes it is not about what we want.
Besides it's ONLY January. Get out and do what you got to do.JMO.

quote:

At what point do you hang up the cleats because no one is going to call?

You don't hang up the cleats until he starts class next Spetember imho. Waiting for the phone to ring is a bad strategy and as you have seen has not produced results. I personally know of kids who found their opportunity in August, applied for admission in August, and began attending classes in September.

First, get that boy eating some of his mom's pasta and other goodies everyday and all the time!

Seriously, I would call every JUCO coach in a 50 or 100 mile radius this weekend and tell them what you have posted here. If he is cruising at 85 and lefty then he is a college pitcher. See if you can get a tryout with them or if they will be attending any camps in the area. Do not be bashful!

I would do the same thing with every D3 and D2 coach in the same area as well.

What you need to do is establish a base. Find a college that you are SURE he can attend and get an opportunity to play. After you have established a base level position, you can can continue to work on opportunities for higher levels of ball (if you desire) in addition to the base opportunity (continue to attend higher level showcases, camps, etc.).

As Jim Valvano said, do not give up, do not ever give up!

I think you'll get answers from a lot more people but there's still a lot of things to do. The first and easiest is to look at the Unsigned Players forum and send a PM to Mn-Mom to get his information in there.

There are still a few showcases happening prior to the season and some showcases happening after the HS season as well as college camps. Just because a player didn't sign during the early signing period doesn't mean they aren't going to be signed. You'll also hear that he has to be proactive and contact coaches of the schools that he wants to attend and let them know he is still interested. If none of that works there's still the JC route which can lead to playing at a higher level. Given your location one has to wonder if you've focused the search in your area where there's a whole lot of competition and even good players can get overlooked or if you've looked at some of the eastern schools who like to pull in a few players from the warm weather states.

The one tough question I'd ask is if he's cruising at 85+ on a Stalker or maxing out at 85+ on a JUGS. Two very different animals, but even at 85 max on a JUGS a crafty lefty has a chance of finding a place somewhere. Also, looking at your previous posts I'd guess there may be some additional information to consider that may have hindered his chances, even if it shouldn't have.

I think CD hit the nail right on the head with his quote.

Apply to as many schools as is reasonable and be ready to make last second adjustments if necessary to get the best combination of academics and athletics. As long as he hasn't committed anywhere he's free to go anywhere he needs to, whenever he needs to.

If he contacts his local JUCO coach and goes out and throws for him it is my experience he will be straight forward with him and say: 1) Come on out and you will have a spot 2) Come on out and see how you stack up against the other guys 3) Work out with the team if you want but you most likely won't make the squad

O'Brady, here's one upcoming tryout not that far from you:

Feb. 24
The Cisco Junior College Baseball Program will be holding open tryouts for all 2008 & 2009 graduates. The tryout will be held Sunday, February 24th , at 1 pm at the Baseball Field in Cisco. Players need to furnish their own equipment (bats, gloves, spikes, catchers gear, etc..). Other college coaches will be in attendance and there is a $15 fee for the workout. It will be a pro-style workout (60’s, throws from their position, pitchers throw bullpens, hit on the field). Each player will be given every opportunity to showcase their talent. If you plan on attending please send us an e-mail, we will register athletes on the day of the tryout. In case of bad weather will we move the tryout to our indoor facility. If you need further information e-mail Coach Williams at Jarrett.williams@cjc.edu or Coach Hughes at shawn.hughes@cjc.edu
http://web.cjc.edu:8080/baseball_website/Tryouts.htm

From Cisco's website:
The Cisco Jr. College Baseball Program started in the Fall of 2004. In 2007, our 3rd season of competition, our record was 36-18. The 2007 team had 9 Div I signees, and one player drafted. We compete in the Region 5 East conference which includes: Grayson, North Central, Temple, Hill, Weatherford, McLennan, Ranger, & Vernon.

One of my son's high school teammates just signed with Navarro JC. It was as simple as his pitching instructor calling the Navarro folks to tell them about him, followed by him pitching for them in a one-on-one tryout on campus. Does your son have a pitching instructor who can talk him up to some area JUCO's?

obrady,
My view is that this isn't a question of whether your son can play college baseball, it is a question of the level at which he wants to play and the school environment.
A lefty throwing 85 mph in TX. is surrounded by upwards of at least 10 very good to excellent DIII programs, many of which are also great academically.
He also would be welcome in nearly any of the SCAC schools outside of Tx with the description you have provided.
Most of these are going to be smaller schools . On the other hand, when you consider UT Tyler and UT Dallas in that group, there are more options.
The one thing I can assure you is that DIII baseball in TX can be played at a very high level, and your son being a lefty throwing 85mph would be quite welcome.

My opinion is that a LHP throwing 85 is only limited by his ability and his own belief in his ability.
D1 1 has tons of LHPs that throw 85- even in top programs.

BHD,
Normally, I would agree on that fact.
But here, obrady posted his son isn't getting any return calls and seemingly no interest.
I don't need convincing that DI coaches miss DI players.
I also know that if none are calling back, it means they either are not interested, they are missing a pitcher with a lot of potential, or they don't have a need.
My point is that is there is something to be learned from not a single DI response, and move to broaden your options, if you want to play college baseball.
They are in a hotbed of very good DIII. UT Tyler had two drafted last June, Trinity one drafted,TLU one drafted and there are probably some I missed.
As an illustration, our son played with a 5'8" lefty pitcher from Houston. He touched 92-93 and was normally 86-89 when he would pitch for 2-3 innings.
While he did not dominate competing with TX DIII's he had a terrific college and summer wood bat league career followed by 2 solid seasons in Independent ball, one of which finished in Canada.
There is a lot of talent in TX. and many great places to compete from DI to DIII, from JC to NAIA.

quote:

They are in a hotbed of very good DIII.

As infielddad has told me in the past, it is very well scouted by the pros and they don't miss D3 players in Texas. Trinity's coach has a record of getting his kids in the highest level of college summer leagues (and drafted) where they can compete against some of the best in the country.

infieldad's son was drafted by the Blue Jays and played summers in the NEBCL while Nick Vera who was drafted last year played in the Coastal Plains.

BTW, when I said establishing a base, I mean people should be as candid as humanly possible. My son had a very good D3 opportunity late in his junior year and we visited the campus in the fall of senior year. We told the coach we loved his program but there was one other opportunity we were pursuing before making a final decision. He didn't like the answer but I think he appreciated the honesty.

I agree with your point of view but I would cast a wider search and not avoid D1. My son had lots of D1 interest and we put down that he topped at 84 and pitched 81-82. It could be he just hasn't hit the right D1.
Maybe he isn't marketing himself well. 85 mph mixed in can get any batter out.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
My opinion is that a LHP throwing 85 is only limited by his ability and his own belief in his ability.
D1 1 has tons of LHPs that throw 85- even in top programs.

What is your opinion of Top D1's?
Lefties on average in the top D1 programs throw 90 or better and have electric stuff and 2-3 pitches to rely on. Lefties with much less velocity come out of the bull pen in top programs. They very rarely see starts. A 90+ FB hitter can make minch meat out of them, unless they throw junk, but rarely do top D1's make a practice of taking junk throwers (r or l).

I agree with infielddad, very few D1 college coaches miss D1 players. If that has sen your son, than he isn't a D1 pitcher. Especially in Texas and especially if they pitch like Tom Glavine. I don't think that OBrady has given us enough info to make such statments. Where has he been? Who has seen him? What are his college baseball goals? Do we really know how he pitches (not that we don't beleive you but you understand). His grades. OBrady you and I have known each other for a long time, is he effective as he should for LHP, or just nibbles all of the time?
You mentioned money, what type of money are you looking for? Baseball, academic? I don't think most players have a choice in that these days. And if a coach really wants a player, he finds ways to get him into his program.
OBrady, have you son apply to college as to where he would go without baseball, continue looking and follow the suggestions above. Don't give up and don't get in, but reevaluate the situation honestly.

JMO.

No need to even argue what level is available. Right now the answer is zero. I think a problem here perhaps may have been reliance on the telephone.

Recruiting is very much like buying an automobile. Would you buy a car, sight unseen, and based purely on a verbal or written description? Of course not. You would want to see the car and try it out before making an offer.

Tryout for every college you have the time and means for. This much I am sure of. If he only tries out for D1, he might not get to play college ball and sadly imho would miss an opportunity of a lifetime.

quote:

Seriously, I would call every JUCO coach in a 50 or 100 mile radius this weekend

Yeap,...and if they dont answer, leave a message.
Have player leave as many messages as needed until he gets a call back.

In between, send emails.
Send more letters. Ask highschool coach or summer coach, to do the same.

Get in the car and go knock on some doors.
Leave a letter of recomendation, a video,...a bio, a stat sheet,...Spring schedule, a platter of cookies with your phone number on them,......whatever you've got.

Ask highschool coach to make some calls.

Do not wait and hope the phone rings.
Go after the schools the player is interested in playing at.

Still lots of time,....but I'd get out there and start shaking that ol' recruiting tree,..and I'd do it vigorously!

It can be done!!!
It will be done.

True story:
My son sent soo much stuff over and over again to a particular university that they finally, after about three months of not a word, wrote back to him and said:
" Good grief kid, since you have been jamming my email box almost daily, how bout' you come out and hit for us and I'll take a look at you. "

Three days later,....we did just that.
Things worked out nicely!

Son may have been annoying as all heck persistant, but he got his shot and thats how it starts!

** Footnote to true story:
No matter how much hoopla my son had sent them, when he got to the university to hit, all that the coaches seemed to have " retained ", was that son was a senior and a switchhitter.
Thats it.
Son could have earned every League and MVP award from here to China and back, and that is not what they seemed to care about. What seemed to matter was what they saw in front of their face, in person, in action.

You've gotta get out in front of them and show them what you've got!
IMHO, creating that opportunity is key.

Speaking for my son only, even though I know several kids in similar situations, he's contacted every level of school from D1 to D3 to Juco and NAIA, and while a few responded with letters or emails, they were very general to just plain old information forms. As for money, that's mainly Dad's wish. He's attended a PG event (7 as a sophomore, speed has improved a lot since then), as well as several other like showcases which again got him form letters and a few general inquiries from northern schools, which he's not interested in, wants to stay in a warm state (his choice). By nibbling I meant he's good at working the corners and staying down in the strike zone. He's pitched in the 2006 WWBA, 17U & 18U and the 2007 WWBA 17U. But out on the remote fields where only parents show up. He attended a showcase at a SEC school. I asked them if they gave feedback. The coach started with the standard speal and when he asked which kid I was asking about and I said the little lefty, he named him and told me to call them in a few days. I did and he said that they had two kids that attended the showcase, as sophomores, that they were putting on their follow list, his and a friend of his that signed with a D1 and probably will be drafted in June. So I can't help but think that there's something there.

Grades good, not great, SAT 1600+

Thanks for the advice, and well wishes.

quote:

a platter of cookies with your phone number on them

A classic idea and I believe that is the first time I have seen that advice here in the hsbbweb! If I were a coach, and the first thing I saw on the way to the office in the morning was a plate of toll house cookies with a players name on it, I can assure you he WOULD get a call back

All very good post and suggestions. The coaches have a lot going on right now. They are preparing their current team for the season next month and are recruiting in between for next season’s players. It is very early in the process.

Some coaches are more “organized” or have more “staff” to help keep them organized than others. They mean well and are doing the best they can but as it has been stated, sometimes you have to e-mail, call, go for a campus visit, meet them and TRY-OUT before the bell goes ding.

Remember, most people sum up your conversation in the first two sentences. Make your point quickly and honestly.

It didn‘t really make sense to us until about the mid point that college coaches are tugged at from all angles. Don’t forget that just because your son has the ability to play at XYZ College, it does not mean that they will have a roster spot.

Look at the team’s current roster. Is the college an educational and athletic fit for the player- will they FIT in? How do you really know till you visit campus? They will know in the first 15 minutes if their heart has found a home.

My son just transferred after one semester- NAIA to D-II. Athletic $MONEY$ and friends will not make you love baseball at a school. He is now at the school with one of the lower offers but a great coach, ranked team and good education. Duh- I tried to tell him!

Sell your product and don’t give up. You have over 6 months- so go market that boy and make ALOT of campus visits.

MSgrits:
AWESOME post!!

ClevelandDad:

I'll bet with ssm's cookies they would call back ! Unfortunetly, D1 ball begins very soon, and coaches are busy with their teams. It's a tough time to start the hunt with D1 teams.

Contacts and letters at this time to schools soon beginning their program won't get answered, don't care how many you send.

Obrady, you have answered most of the reasons why. He has more or less followed what he wants and he may not be at that level that he can do that. He's not interested in any northern school that has contacted him, he attended an SEC camp, he's waiting for them to contact him again? Don't go on the premise there is something there. Sometimes it's not about what you want, but where your best options would be. JMO.

If he wants to play ball in college and you want some money, he has fair grades, JUCO seems like the most likely option to me. I don't see SEC. I would get the ball rolling asap (he's an 08 right). If that is nt appealing, he may need to move on.

Brookhaven
University of Dallas
University of Texas-Dallas
North Central Texas
Eastfield
http://www.eastfieldcollege.com/baseball/schedule.htm
Weatherford
Cedar Valley
Vernon
http://www.vernoncollege.edu/baseball/players0708/baseb...PRING%20SCHEDULE.pdf
Panola (forgot about them)
Hill
Angelina
Paris
Hardin-Simmons
http://hsuathletics.cstv.com/sports/m-basebl/sched/hsim-m-basebl-sched.html
McMurry

See who they play.

Go watch a game this spring

Introduce yourselves to the coach before or after the game.

See if your summer or high school coach knows any of the coaches at a school where you want to visit.

Juco's can give 24 scholarships

Inexpensive to attend anyway.

Probably less than summer team cost.

Pick a school.

Take a visit.

Introduce yourself.

Tell them you are looking for a place to play.

If they don't have a spot, the usually know someone that might need a player.

They ain't out looking.

They are getting ready for spring.

Go to them.

Good luck.

FO, I had a sense you would provide great local knowledge.
obrady, for what it is worth, McMurry plays Chapman on 2/8-2/9 and George Fox from 2/15 to 2/17.
They also play Marietta college on a trip where Marietta plays UT Dallas.
Those will be some of the top DIII's nationally and McMurry has a facility as good as any, and I mean any.
Chapman has two pitchers who will be low 90's and Marietta, for instance, will be really good(CD will verify, I hope?)
I hope you go to some of these games. Great baseball that I wish I could see.

So George Fox is a really good D3?thats the school my son was going to play at and has decided to go to a JC.I am so bummed. but we already covered that in another post.

Cleveland Dad said:

quote:

Waiting for the phone to ring is a bad strategy

AMEN!!
This kinda reminds me of the homeless person sitting on one side of the intersection of the roadside holding a sign that says --- "NEED FOOD" while the store on the other side of the intersection has a sign in the window that says: "NEED HELP".
Fungo

FormerObserver gave a terrific list. To that I would add Northwood Univ. (NAIA) if your son is interested in business. The head coach is a former pitching coach at DBU.

One of your first calls should be to Coach Coleman at Hardin-Simmons (D3). He is a wonderful man who would give you the shirt off his back. He most likely would be willing to sit down with you for an hour or more to discuss options at HSU and elsewhere. He's done it with us and he's done it with friends of ours. He is friends with the head coach at Abilene Christian (D2) and most likely the coach at McMurry (D3) also, and his brother is head coach at Midland J.C. I wouldn't think your son would have problems getting admitted to any of the aforementioned schools with his GPA/test scores.

Best wishes!

To add to FO's list,

Steven F. Austin
Sam Houston State
U of Houston
UT Tyler
UTA
UTSA
UTEP
UT Pan Am
Tarelton State
McClennan CC
Grayson CC
Cisco JC
Richland CC

Put your portfolio together, call the recruiter, send them your schedule, ask your summer coach to help, etc, etc, etc.
Good advise from all..

quote:

Lefties on average in the top D1 programs throw 90 or better and have electric stuff and 2-3 pitches to rely on. Lefties with much less velocity come out of the bull pen in top programs. They very rarely see starts. A 90+ FB hitter can make minch meat out of them, unless they throw junk, but rarely do top D1's make a practice of taking junk throwers (r or l).

Tpm you say JUNK like it's junk.

What is wrong with a bull pen pitcher ? Do I detect an elitist attitude ?

I consider top teams as top programs like Florida State, SC, C of Charleston, etc etc. These teams I have listened to and mny more where announcers have mentioned that some of their pitchers were soft tossers. Low 80s. The best pitcher who played at my son's school topped out at 80-81 and is in the minors. His 1st season he was 7-1 with the Red Sox. He is a starter if that means anything.
I have a hard time with people who want to pigeon hole players based on size, velo etc.
I so feel the effort has to be smart effort and SSmon and msport point out some good Msg make some good points. The effort some times has to border on persistence.
My son was referred to a D1 JC in Iowa which had been to the D1 WS 4 years in a row. I called and left messages, forwarded the DVD to the HC and had to chase him for almost 2 months to get him to look at it. He travelled all over the US lecturing on pitching. Finally I called him and talked with him and he had the video right beside him and was taking it home to watch. Next day I get a call and an offer from them.
The school he is at never responded to 2 questionaires I filled out and so I called and told him how srprised I was that he hadn't responded. He pulled it out of the stack and said I see you have a DVD could you send it. I called to see if he received it a couple weeks later and he said yes we are preparing an offer.
Persistence and some times in your face diplomacy gets it done. Yes coaches are busy especially now. There is no such thing as too busy to look at a LHP . Sometimes you have to sell yourself . In sales it is industry standard that promotional promotion has to be seen at least 3 times before people react. Push a little harder. Not all good ball players are chased by college coaches.

quote:

Originally posted by obrady:
Speaking for my son only, even though I know several kids in similar situations, he's contacted every level of school from D1 to D3 to Juco and NAIA, and while a few responded with letters or emails, they were very general to just plain old information forms. As for money, that's mainly Dad's wish. He's attended a PG event (7 as a sophomore, speed has improved a lot since then), as well as several other like showcases which again got him form letters and a few general inquiries from northern schools, which he's not interested in, wants to stay in a warm state (his choice). By nibbling I meant he's good at working the corners and staying down in the strike zone. He's pitched in the 2006 WWBA, 17U & 18U and the 2007 WWBA 17U. But out on the remote fields where only parents show up. He attended a showcase at a SEC school. I asked them if they gave feedback. The coach started with the standard speal and when he asked which kid I was asking about and I said the little lefty, he named him and told me to call them in a few days. I did and he said that they had two kids that attended the showcase, as sophomores, that they were putting on their follow list, his and a friend of his that signed with a D1 and probably will be drafted in June. So I can't help but think that there's something there.

Grades good, not great, SAT 1600+

Thanks for the advice, and well wishes.

o'brady - when I read your original post it sounded like possibly a lack of exposure which that does not seem to be the case after reading your second post. TPM's advice is blunt and to the point but seems about right here. I am sensing now a lack of aggressiveness and an unwillingness to modify your plan in view of the feedback you have gotten. If money is an issue, the JC route may still be the way to go. For example, the first two years of college may be less expensive than at a D1 where he got a 50% scholarship however any D1 scholarship at this point seems unrealistic based on what you have posted. The JC route also does not preclude a D1 opportunity after he has matured in a year or two.

Also, how bad does your son want it? I can guarantee that if the only offer my son had received was at a tiny D3 school on an Indian reservation in North Dakota that he would be going to school in North Dakota right now.

I refer nothing wrong with lefties coming out of the bullpen. Our #4 pick came out of the BP for 2 and a half seasons. He never threw junk stuff. My reply was to your comment that there are many top D1 programs where there are 85- lefties.

Junk is not used in a bad way, my son throws it but not often. That may be when his FB is not doing it's thing that day so he is relying on his secondary pitches, but that sometimes translates into a poor outing. You cannot get by in top D1 programs this way. On many occassions we have faced in midweek games softer tossers, placed in the game just to win the game by throwing off the 90mph hitters. But good hitters adjust after an inning or two.
I usually refer to ot as very little use of the pitchers FB, using everything else but the kitchen sink keep a batter off balance. FSU, SC do not rely on this to win games in the divisions they play. Not sure of C of C. Neither do most D1 programs.
Your sons friend may have done well his first season in rookie or ss, with an 81 FB he's toast as he moves up or if he moves up.
I agree with making the effort, I do not agree, with making statments regarding there's plenty of places for softer lefties (or righties) in top D1 programs (such as the examples that you mentioned) when you have not seen the pitcher. This may be the impression the player has, especially if he is weaiting for an SEC to call.
Let's give advice as to how to go about the situation realistically not knowing the entire situation. I beleive that DVD's may open doors but personally I stay far away from a coach that makes an offer on a DVD. JMO.

JMO.

I think at times people confuse pitchers who are capable of throwing mid to high 80s but choose to work in the low to mid 80s with pitchers who are capable of throwing in the low 80s. Two very different things.

TPM I don't agree Any one the depends on their fastball only is in big trouble. If you don't develope 2 strong off speed pitches and make them part of your repertoire doesn't stand a chance. The one thing that all good college and pro hitters can do is turn on a fastball, off speed another story.

bobbleheaddoll,
----------------------------------------------------
I consider top teams as top programs like Florida State, SC, C of Charleston, etc etc. These teams I have listened to and mny more where announcers have mentioned that some of their pitchers were soft tossers. Low 80s. The best pitcher who played at my son's school topped out at 80-81 and is in the minors. His 1st season he was 7-1 with the Red Sox. He is a starter if that means anything.
I have a hard time with people who want to pigeon hole players based on size, velo etc.
I so feel the effort has to be smart effort and SSmon and msport point out some good Msg make some good points. The effort some times has to border on persistence.
----------------------------------------------------
Amen



My son is 5'9 OF/RHP in last 7 innings that he took the mound he threw against some of the best high school talent in country, here is the results.

2 innings at NAIA inter-squad scrimage during an official visit 0 RUNS, 0 HITS 1 HBP
---------------------------------------------------
2 innings at PG World Wood Bat in Jupiter (against Atlanta Bluejays Squad)0 RUNS, 1 HIT, 1 HBP

Roster
Players:
Name Position Height Weight Bats Throws Grad HighSchool
Adams, Tyler MIF 5-9 150 L R 2009 Sprayberry
Austin, Jay OF P 6-0 175 L L 2008 North Atlanta
Beckham, Tim SS 6-2 200 R R 2008 Griffin
Blakey, Corbin MIF 5-11 170 R R 2009 Centennial
Brewer, Blake P 6-6 190 R R 2008 Sandy Creek
Burke, Antonio OF 6-1 190 R R 2008 Lithia Springs
Ceci, Michael P OF 6-4 195 R L 2008 Harrison
Enser, Aaron P 5-9 150 R R 2009 Sprayberry
Flamm, Elliot MIF 5-9 135 R R 2008 Pope
Frost, Ron P 6-3 195 R L 2009 North Atlanta
Gary, Harrison OF 6-1 155 R R 2008 Dutchtown
Glenn, Alex OF 5-11 170 L L 2009 Henry County
Goetz, Justin P 6-0 170 R R 2009 Peachtree Ridge
Haddock, Scott MIF 6-0 180 R R 2008 Harrison
Hahlbohn, Nick 3B 6-2 170 R R 2010 Hill Grove
Hahlbohn, Scott P 6-8 260 R R 2008 Hill Grove
Hartigan, Kevin MIF 3B 5-10 160 L R 2009 Centennial
Jerrigan, Jay 1B 6-2 230 R R 2009 North Atlanta
Kerins, T.J. P 6-1 185 R R 2008 Walton
Lusted, C.J. C P 6-1 185 L R 2008 Centennial
Mann, Jamel P 6-3 206 R R 2008 Henry County
Marshall, Ben P 5-11 175 R R 2008 Loganville
Mitzel, Ryan OF 6-0 195 R R 2008 Walton
Moore, Stephen SS P 6-1 160 R R 2010 The Walker School
Moreland, Draveon C 5-10 215 R R 2009 Columbia High School
Mylenbusch, Chris P 6-4 200 R R 2008 Harrison
Rainge, Anthony 3B 6-2 210 S R 2008 Miller Grove
Roberts, Tyler C 1B 6-1 210 R R 2009 Jones County High School
Smalls, William MIF OF 5-8 170 R R 2008 North Atlanta
Smith , Kevin C 5-11 155 L R 2008 St. Francis
Stokes, Mykal OF 6-3 185 S R 2008

----------------------------------------------------

3 innings at recent PG World Showcase in Ft Myers against a stacked (steel team) he gave up 0 runs, 0 hits, 2 HBP pitching 7-8-9 to preserve the win

STEEL TEAM ROSTER
Kyle Allen IMG Academy-Pendleton Riverview, FL
Greg Densem Northview Heights Toronto, ON
Patton Eagle Fort Worth Country Day Fort Worth, TX
Eddie Young Christian El Cajon, CA
Bryan Cooper Stamford Stamford, CT
Gregory Fisk Irvington Irvington, NY
Kevin Gottlieb Palm Beach Gardens Palm Beach Gardens, FL
Peter O'Brien Braddock Miami Gardens, FL
Nicholas Purdy St Mary's Grafton, ON
Alex Ramon Coral Gables Miami, FL
Adam Lopez Stafford Fredricksburg, VA
Tyler Wilson Armuchee Rome, GA
Richard Seaton Birchmount Park Collegiate Inst. Scarborough, ON
Jordan Glover Lawrence Park Collegiate Toronto, ON
Tristan Beadle Pickering Ajax, ON
Allan O'Neal Grand Street Campus Queens, NY

----------------------------------------------------
ALL BATTERS HBP ON INSIDE CURVE BALLS BATTERS DID THERE JOBS SOME LEANED IN.
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He never threw harder than A 82 fastball yet changed speeds with a strong 12-6 CURVE and a circle change. What he demonstrated was how to pich black to black up and down.

I am so tired off being told that the velocity isn't high enough. Got a call from Strong D2 coach who said he reviewed Ryan pitching and said he was extermely impressed and that Ryan throws a heavy ball that sinks real well. He also said that he felt that with some small mechanical changes he felt Ryan could increase velocity 5-6 mph and requested that we film Ryan from third, second, and from home (close-up on Ryan) so he could evaluate the film, He stated with Ryan's off speed pitches being so good that adding just 5 mph would make Ryan an opposing pitcher with alot of upside at all levels.

Now to me that is someone who gets it, looking at the big piture and how to build and improve on what the player already is capable of. Most high school pitchers are not even in a strong training program, yet some of these guys who claim to be coaches right away look at size and arm strength. I was told by a scout that Ryan can flat out play and has a major league 12-6 curve ball right now but unless he throws 90 at his height no-one will take him serious and that no one will recommend him based on height as a pitcher to their organization. The risk as a scout was to great. To me thats weak.

As far as a blanket statement that pitchers need to throw 90 to have a chance at next level is ridiculous. Getting outs and not give up runs is the recipe that should decide whether you can pitch or not.

I spoke with Christian Garcia a pitcher in the Yankees Organization recently and he told me that at next level OFF SPEED is more important and a mid to high 80's fastball painting the spots will get the job done. He said another friend of his is Gio Gonzalex and that he throws around 88 yet his off speed is so strong that he uses his fastball as a slip pitch and pitches backwards to the book to keep hitters off balance.

Bottom Line Outs, Outs, Outs

The JC coach is a pitching guy and the DVD was full of vides that showed my son pitching against top hitters. The coach knew the hitters in several videos. Also he had a reference from a coach who saw him throw a perfect game against the top elite team in the league at a tournament he put on.
When I listen to games like FS the announcers have access to the radar info and called several pitchers soft tossers over 3 games.
The 81 mph guy is in his 3rd year in the minors and his issue was a deteriorating disk in his back. I have read the blogs on him and he has a huge fan base. When Boston released him due to the injury there were tons of upset fans who enjoyed his performance. He may not go to the show but not many do.
I think it is wise to spread the effort around to many different colleges. We did and had a lot of interest. Yes some won't just look at the DVD and make an offer but many will depending on what they see and need.
Being too realistic can be just as bad as having no ability.

Everyone is making good points here but to me, debating the merits of what it takes (velocity or otherwise) to play D1 is WAY beside the point of the question asked in this thread.

Ryno what advice would you give to this young man and his Dad in Texas? Try even harder to get into a D1? Right now he is a D0 player and we are debating whether or not he can play D1? This is a strategy designed for failure imho.

ClevelandDad I would suggest to any player stop looking at name brands which most of our youth today do and start concentrating on Fit. Their are many strong D2, D3, NAIA and JUCO programs out there that are looking for players.

Baseball Recruiting Guidelines

Division I:

The typical Division I baseball player is 'polished' and seems to already have all the tools necessary to be successful as a freshman. As opposed to the Division II baseball player, the typical DI player needs far less development, if any. The position players possess at least 4 of the 5 measurable tools - hit for average, hit for power, arm strength, speed, and defensive abilities. The pitchers display a command of at least 3 pitches with high velocities. On average, they have the ability to throw many innings, and most often they are only used on the mound and rarely as position players. Most D1 players come from large high schools. Many of these programs are considered the best in their area or in the State. In addition, most DI players have been awarded accolades such as All-Area, All-County, or All-State.

The average characteristics by position are as follows:

Right Hand Pitchers:
-Height: 6'1"
-Weight: 180 Pounds
-Over 1 K per Inning Pitched
-ERA below 2.50
-Velocity: 88-90 MPH (Verified by neutral source)

Left Hand Pitchers:
-Height: 6'1"
-Weight: 180 Pounds
-1 K per Inning Pitched
-ERA below 2.50
-Velocity: 85-87 MPH (Verified by neutral source)

Centerfielders:
-Height: 5'11"
-Weight: 170 Pounds
-60 Yard: 6.6 (Verified)
-Velocity for OF: 86-87 MPH (Verified by neutral source)

Middle Infielders:
-Height: 5'11"
-Weight: 175 Pounds
-60 Yard: 6.8-6.9 (Verified by neutral source)
-Velocity from INF: 85+ MPH (Verified by neutral source)

Catchers:
-Height: 5'10"-6'0"
-Weight: 180 Pounds
-Pop Time: Sub 1.95 (Verified by neutral source)

Corner Infielders:
-Height: 6'2"
-Weight: 200 Pounds
-Power Numbers: 8+ HR, 30+RBI

Division II:

For some colleges, especially those in the Southern States and out on the West Coast, DII Baseball is an extension of DI. There are very few differences between the typical West Coast or Southern DII player and the average DI player. For the DII schools up North, the athletes may be a notch below the average DI and perhaps a little less polished. They may not throw as hard, play for the top high schools programs, or possess at least 4 of the 5 measurable tools. This is not always the case, as there are some very solid DII Baseball Programs up North. However, it is no secret that overall, the better baseball schools are those located in warmer climates.

The Minimum Requirements by position are as follows:

Right Handed Pitchers:
- Height: 6'0' (Preferably taller)
- Weight: 175 lbs
- Averaging about 1K per inning pitched
- ERA below 3.00
- Velocity: 85 MPH

Left Handed Pitchers:
- Height: 5'10' (Preferably taller)
- Weight: 165 lbs
- Averaging about 1K per inning pitched
- ERA at 3.00 or below
- Velocity: 83 MPH

Centerfielders:
- Height: 5'9'
- Weight: 150 lbs
- 60 Yrd Time: 6.8 or below

Middle Infielders:
- Height: 5'7'
- Weight: 150 lbs
- 60 Yrd Time: 7.1 or below
- 79-80 MPH from SS

Catchers:
- Height: 5'9'
- Weight: 175 lbs
- Pop Time: 2.0 or below

Much can be determined on film. It is very difficult to measure defensive abilities on paper. Fielding percentage cannot be used as an accurate statistic because it is difficult to calculate and it can be easily manipulated. Most Division II players have received several accolades, such as All Conference or All Area.


Division III:

Some DIII programs are stronger than others, but there seems to be more continuity with the physical characteristics of DIII players than there are for DII or NAIA. Certain DIII programs, such as Wisconsin Whitewater or George Fox, play at a superior level. However, for the most part, the range of physical characteristics was slim.

The Minimum Requirements by positions are as follow:

Right Handed Pitchers:
- Height: 5'8"
- Weight: 155 Pounds
- 1 or less than 1 K Per Inning Pitched
- ERA below 4.00
- Velocity: 81 MPH

Left Handed Pitchers:
- Height: 5'8"
- Weight: 155 Pounds
- 1 or less than 1 K Per Inning Pitched
- ERA below 4.00
- Velocity: 79 MPH

Centerfielders:
- Height 5'7"
- Weight: 140 Pounds
- 60 Yard Dash: 7.0 or below

Middle Infielders:
- Height: 5'7"
- Weight: 150 Pounds
- 40 Yard Dash: 4.9 or below

Catchers:
- Height: 5'8"
- Weight: 165 Pounds
- Pop Time: 2.1 or below


NAIA:

The discrepancies in characteristics are very severe when it comes to NAIA baseball. Some NAIA schools are playing at a DII level, while others are competing at a lower DIII level. NCSA found a mix of D2 criteria and D3 criteria make up the recruiting guidelines for this league.


Junior College Baseball:

Unlike the NAIA, Junior Colleges do have 3 divisions for the purpose of separating stronger JC programs from the weaker ones. While there may be somewhat of a drop off in talent between Division III Junior College and Division I and Division II Junior Colleges, there is little difference between DI and DII Junior Colleges. Many of the Junior College players lack the 'polish' to be considered DI players coming out of HS, but they already possess the necessary physical tools to be successful at the DI level. All they need to do is harness and polish those skills. The GPA's of most of the Junior College athletes are lower than those attending 4 year schools, suggesting that these athletes need to two years to mature academically as well.

Preferred Grades for All Divsions:
3.0 GPA +24 ACT + 1000 SAT (out of 1600)
(No scores needed for underclassmen)

In order to compile these Recruiting Guidelines, NCSA tracked hundreds of former NCSA student-athletes who have gone on to compete at the collegiate level, polled college coaches across the nation, and analyzed college rosters at all levels of competition.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Baseball by the Numbers


Schools Offering Baseball
NCAA Division I
285

NCAA Division II
247

NCAA Division III
369

NAIA
205

NJCAA
394

Total
1,500

Athletic Scholarship Opportunities
Division I (per school)
11.7

Division II (per school)
9

NAIA (per school) 12

Student-Athlete Participation
NCAA Division I
10,011

NCAA Division II
8,100

NCAA Division III
10,656

HS Student-Athletes
478,842


Note: Division III schools offer merit, academic, and need-based scholarships


You as a player must evaluate your needs and look at the programs you will fit into. And always go where they want you. Remember you will be a student athlete and not the other way around. Chase your dream but be realistic the future is all in front of you. You'll enjoy the experience much more being a contributing member of the team and your college experience will be positive.

I have seen these guidlines before and you have to be very carefull that you dan't believe everything you read.
By those guidlines there would only be a few pitchers left on each college team.

I know they are referring to HS srs.

Ryno,
You MUST have secondary pitches to move ahead and must rely on them. No argument. I do beleive yor guideleines give a good snapshot of what coaches from each level look for, but recruit on the needs of their program.
Your FB should be your strongest point, JMO. I am sorry I got off teh track, just that you can't surmise because of your stuff (lefty-righty, hard thrower soft tosser) that makes you attractive to everyone. BTW, grades are very important, GPA over ERA is the first question asked in many cases, or comes immediately after, now more than ever, that was only mentioned.

CADAD, I do agree but this in someway does have something to do with the topic, indirectly. You look for a program because it fits your talent, work in the classroom and your needs. The player wants to say south, get scholarship money and obviously a D1, with average (?)grades. That always doesn't work. And if that player should get an opportunity to atend a larger D1, does he want to do it on teh bench or the field? These are important decisions.

Bottom line if you want to go to college and baseball is your top priority, you go to play where those that believe in you will give you teh opportunity (not a half azz one but a good one). If those schools are not attractive, well then it's maybe time to decide what really IS important and start applying to schools to further your education. JMO.

I would have to think any D3 the kid can academically qualify for would be interested in an 85 mph throwing lefty. At his weight I would think they would see potential upside based on physical development.

quote:

Originally posted by RYNO:
TPM I don't agree

Ditto, but ... easy

quote:

Originally posted by RYNO:
I am so tired....

Your not old enuf to be tired...

quote:

Originally posted by RYNO:
Bottom Line Outs, Outs Outs

Ditto,
......but if that was easy, everyone could do it.

quote:

At what point do you hang up the cleats because no one is going to call? What is left for these guys? I know a lot of colleges fill spots in late spring and early summer but these guys need to apply for colleges and go on with their lives. What would you say to these guys?

My experience is that most boys don't get alot of phone calls, I know mine didn't. About halfway through his senior year of high school, mine started to worry because he had not signed. I finally convinced him that if he wanted to play at the next level, it was up to him to get to work. He got on the computer and started to contact coaches at all levels. He recieved an invite to a workout at a jc in west Texas. We went and he got a scholarship the same day.

Son decided one season of west Texas was enough. He contacted the coach at a local ranked DII. He arranged a workout with the coach during Christmas break his sophmore year. Coach told him he was welcome to walk on but he would have to earn playing time. He transfered and worked his butt off and by the end of the season, he was a starter.

My point is, for alot of boys, i think they need to approach this like I would if I was looking for a job. If they aren't calling you, you need to contact them. Good luck to your son.

TX05 that sounds like a plan.
I agree most guys don't get called so it is up to them. If you don't get a response try again until you get a no or a yes.
Try not to be too realistic you just might cheat yourself out of an opportunity.

quote:

He got on the computer and started to contact coaches at all levels. He recieved an invite to a workout at a jc in west Texas. We went and he got a scholarship the same day.

Son decided one season of west Texas was enough. He contacted the coach at a local ranked DII. He arranged a workout with the coach during Christmas break his sophmore year. Coach told him he was welcome to walk on but he would have to earn playing time. He transfered and worked his butt off and by the end of the season, he was a starter.

What an inspiring story - a hsbbweb classic