First Example of Politics in HS Ball

Better according to whom?

 

It seems quite often parents of athletes that are cut cry "politics" when their kid doesn't make a team.  Too often they are looking through rose colored glasses and don't see what the coaches "see".

 

Nice to hear your son made JV.

For the eight years my two kids were in high school (they're five years apart in age) I heard "politics" every year when baseball and softball teams were announced. Not once was the parent correct. Sometimes a kid cut or sent to JV was marginally better. But he/she was a behavior, coachability or academic issue the varsity coach didn't want to deal with. 

 

When my son was a freshman he played JV while some seniors played for a 6-16 varsity. Could my son have started on varsity? Sure. But playing JV as a freshman was the best thing for his development. He started as a soph on a winning varsity team. Freshman year my daughter started the season on JV. Four games into the season a senior failed. My daughter started on varsity the rest of the year. Sometimes it's a matter of patience and keep plugging.

Geez it seems to never end

 It's not always politics, give the Coach a little credit that he may be a bad evaluator of talent. I have seen Coaches preach and preach about how to make their team to only use a total different criteria come tryouts. I have seen a kid play 1st for 3 years that can't bend over and touch his shoes, but because he is left handed he must be a 1st baseman. I know coaches that lack the skill to keep 24 kids busy for 4 hours so he runs them to death. So anyway it might not always be politics.

There is also the factor of some kids...not necessarily yours, but SOME kids go into the tryout "knowing" they are on a really good travel team and they are an automatic lock for Varsity so they don't ACTUALLY give 100% effort in tryouts.  While some of the more "less talented" kids give their heart and soul during the tryouts...whom would you take?

This is a repost from another discussion on another thread that went OT into politics....

 

Friday was final cut day at our HS. Fortunately my son made the team. they ended up cutting 7 players total. I hear today from one of the parents today, "it's all politics man". uh you do realize they cut the superintendent's son and two players whose fathers teach and coach at the high school or one of the feeder jr highs?  Yea but 1/3 of those they took all play for same travel team. Hey you realize my son plays for that team right?  went on to explain to him that we play two towns over, have never seen the HS coaches at one of our practices, games or events. We play in a "closed league" and have never seen HC sons team during the season. Maybe the reason so many of our kids are making the team is our travel program puts on a hell of an off season program and the kids that made it worked their butts off during the off season. 

I have seen a tendency to keep JR & SR on varsity if the talent is somewhat close and in our league SR cannot play JV.. This is in my opinion is hard on coaches who have coached and taught these seniors 4 years, to flat out cut them.I do find it somewhat difficult to watch JV because with the lack of good coaches around it's more of let's get everybody equal time on the field..Paying your dues for 2 years is hard to take and sometimes hard to watch..Being a coach myself I struggle with this same problem in a different sport.What it comes down to is how bad do you wanna play and how much crap can you put up with to play..

With as many posters that come to this site.I'm sure now and then it might be politics.In reality I think its more like what the Doc stated.Person/people making the decisions just aren't making the best decisions.When our Jr. class was in 8th grade we had 2 kids out for a week because of grades.It couldn't have come at a worst time.it was late in the state playoffs.I think sectionals and super sectionals.I'm thinking who will play the 2 open spots.We had been a "only 9-10 kids team".The 2 kids that were brought off the bench I could'nt believe.We p[layed 2 games that week.The kid that played 2nd should have in no way been on the bench that year.NO way.The other kid at the very least should have been getting AB.He went on to HR at state with his only AB.Was this politics/I really don't think so.I think the whole situation came down to not seeing the talent in front of you.Did these kids practices badly?Couldn't tell you.After the whole thing was over kid and I talked about it.He told me none of the kids could figure it out.Does that make it political?In MY case I tend to think its not politics but something even harder to understand.

Yep.  I always say that you can't fool the kids.  They know.  

 

I have seen it first hand and unknowingly have had the coach "admit" it.  When the coach says player x is my favorite player and the light bulb goes off -- so that's why he played so much.  

Speaking in generalities, HS "politics" happens and it can seem arbitrary and capricious depending on an individual's perspective. At our HS, seniors are almost never cut from V, even if they limped-in from JV and will never get meaniningful playing time. I'm cool with that. However, in stronger years, kids might get cut moving from JV to V as juniors and, unless something happens, they will be out of baseball by their senior year. Etc.

In my area, the credentials to coach a school sports are onerous.  This leaves the HS (and MS) team at the mercy of the current education employees.   One can not expect and increasingly female profession to have enough male employees who are willing, not to mention knowledgeable, to coach boys baseball.

 

I suspect politics plays a part but the inability to assess baseball ability, much less project it, is more the reason for decisions we disagree with.   Just because someone tries their best doesn't mean it is the best.

Has anyone done peer-reviewed research on the effect of politics on roster selection in  high school baseball?  I'm guessing no.

 

All we have to go on is opinions based on anecdotal evidence, personal observation and personal stories told with personal bias, which are essentially worthless as proof that politics plays any role in HS baseball.

 

Here's my 2 cents based on personal observation:  There is some impact, but not nearly as much as most aggrieved people assume.  Most of the impact I have seen relates to blood relatives. I've seen clear evidence that some coaches' sons get preferential treatment on HS rosters and playing time, just like they often do in youth baseball, though there are far fewer cases as players go up the ladder.  As for the kids of prominent boosters, coaches' friends or other VIPs getting a spot on a team in front of more deserving kids?  Nope, never seen it.  Or  players getting roster spots just because they played on a certain travel team?   Nope.  However, certainly a kid whose talent and work ethic is already known to the coach may have a leg up initially.  But the unknown kid has equal opportunity to prove himself, from what I've seen at the schools I follow.  In fact, I'd consider my kid in that category. He didn't play on the "right" travel team. He's not the son of a big booster. Yet he's playing in front of kids who are both.

 

Coaches want to win.  Most of the time they put the team on the field that they think will give them the best chance of winning.   

 

Of course, not everybody is a great judge of baseball  talent.  So what looks like politics to you could be just somebody not judging talent very well.  It could be the coach, or it could be you.   We'll never know.

 

If a Coach had a reputation for wanting to win, playing to win, developing to win, a bunch of other variables would go away. He could make some bad decisions, but parents would know that he made them with the intent to win.

(Coach X runs a tight ship and he always plays to win) I like the sound of that.

Doc your 110% right.I also think the "real" politics happens a level or two above the players.How about this.A lower coach gets the HC V job and 1 year later wins a state championship.Who that on.Everyone watching the kids grow and devolop knew long ago when that group had thier chance they would be very good.While the championship can never be taken away.Is there a point with the program that the state championship means nothing.Is not relevant to where the program is stuck at?The next town is a good example.It is extremley well run.From the early 70's to earlty 90's the HS football program has the same HC that his first team way back when was undefeated.The HS program is less than irrevelant other than those first 2-3 years.After coach retires the program goes thru a couple of new coaches over a 2-4 year period.Since mid 90"s and thru 2 HC there a small school power house.Are the kids just better FB players beginning at the same time the new coach showed up?How about the program thats basically a .500 team for 10 yrs. with a state championship right in the middle of the .500 run.Is that the coach?The kids?The kids with help before HS of a good group of parents?

In our state the coach doesn't have to teach at the school or even in the district. He doesn't even have to be a teacher. He just needs a teaching credential. Our AD used this rule to bring in the top assistants from every nearby high school and rejuvenate the sports programs.

The mistakwe some parents make regarding politics is they're thinking 7u to 14u baseball accomplishments. The high school coach is thinking what can this player do for me now and the next couple of years?

Rjm Your completly right on that one.I think the problem that goes with that is theres not enough my way or the high way coaches that year in and out are rolling over the competition for the most part.I think  the my way or the highway type coach that when the kids and or parents aren't around puts all the negitive on anyone but himself that causes alot of problemsIn those situationsalot of things look politicl. You tend to see this sort of thing in the smaller programs.In the bigger/more profile schools theres more accountability.More of a chance of others (non parents) asking whats up?I also think theres too much I don't want to say disrespect, how about no respect to all the players on teams.Alot of times that can be percirved as politics.I know on a good portion of the posts here its just parents blowing off some steam.They have no other place where someone might "get it".Alot of times we just don't do a very good job picking the right words and come off sounding like one of those parentsThe politics word is thrown around here often.In reality I wish it was only that.For those of you that have one of those my way or the highway coaches that is winning year in and out.You should go over to thier house and give them a hand with the spring yard clean up so they can have more time with your player.

The most amazing HS coach I've ever known...coaches at a powerhouse HS athletic program, has lots of cuts every year.  From freshmen, JV and Varsity teams.  He wishes he didn't have to cut anyone, but the massive numbers basically require it.  Every year the parents line up the next morning to meet with him about 'why did you screw my kid?'

 

There is really no way to accuse this man of politics or favoritism at this point.  Long time coach, no kids in program, tenured teacher, is fine with private lessons, is fine with travel ball, but doesn't require it at all.  A local legend.  Doesn't owe anyone anything.

 

He told me that in reality, it is rather stunning just how easy it is to draw the line.  Who to cut and who to keep.  He doesn't go for a number, but rather draws it where it should be drawn, based on where the talent drops off.

 

Still, this complaint comes at him every year.  He's a pretty good guy so he will talk with the parents.  I doubt many of them agree with his staff's (9 coaches in all) assessment.

Sadly for Northern CA, he is retiring after this year.  Maybe he's a dying breed?

 

I'm sure, somewhere, there's some coaches who bend over to politics or favors or whatever.  I just don't think they are as common as is reported here and elsewhere.

 

 

With so many good summer programs and travel teams, it's probably hard to live up to some parents expectations. HS coaches have a limited time to develop. So I don't mind if they chase the wins, and leave the developing up to the parents and paid coaches.

+1 + several more

Wildcats21 - 

 

My 2017 just completed tryouts for his high school.  He did not make the Varsity team. He is on the Sophomore team. (No JV here) Only one Sophomore made varsity.  I see nothing political about this at all.  My son may be better than some of the juniors on varsity (truly I have no idea if he is) but he should get plenty of playing time on the Sophomore team.  Perhaps this the Varsity head coach's plan - getting the younger kids more at bats and innings on the mound to prepare for Junior and Senior year.

 

One thing I like about my sons school (catholic - 1400 students) is that it has no booster club.  All donated money goes into the general fund and is distributed as needed by the administration.  In the last year a new football stadium and with new turf has been built as well as academic facility upgraded.

 

One thing that would help get better responses would be if all posters indicated the size of the school in question.

 

 

 

Very well-illustrated example of the reality of the situation... even a legend with proven track record of fairness and success is subject to multiple parent complaints every year. 

Even with nine coaches spending hours with the players on a daily basis and collaborating with their unbiased assessments, some of the parents know better and are certain that their kid was screwed.

 

I just wish that those coming here sharing stories of political injustice would provide the same level of detail and background that you have.  Admittedly, I don't fully understand all of the OP's description of the situation ("Other experienced travel kids were taken to make time for room for some less talented players." ???). So, I'm missing part of the story.

 

When complaints are stated here about coaching, I try to ask myself if I, as a coach, am acting in such a manner that is similarly detrimental to our program.  I sincerely hope that parents who read stories such as yours can open their minds and ask themselves if they may be acting in such a manner that is detrimental to their sons and their programs. 

 

Very sorry to hear that such a good one is leaving the game.