Focus Issues

I have never worried about son's eyes. Just mechanics... and landing spot.

Some just focus on the glove, hehe.

quote:

Originally posted by Mallot's Dad:
My son had a frustrating bullpen last night. He had a tough time finding the zone. He had a couple of dads telling him certain things to try, mechanically, but was still frustrated.

Part of the problem may be too much input if “dads” are making various suggestions…

Too your point however, my son used to glance down at his foot in mid foot lift and his pitching coach worked with him on keeping his head stable and focused on the target. I think it is more “where the head goes the body goes” vs the eyes however. Focus is important, and Alan Jaeger teaches kids to focus on a spot on the glove not just the glove, so yes it is important, but Okajima from Boston is an example that you can throw strikes without looking at your target. I think eye focus is part of the mental focus aspect of pitching and if your son is trying to work through issues, getting frustraited he is probably better doing it one on one with a trusted instructor away from a bunch of dads standing around distracting him.

I agree with the dad's input issue. I almost think that it would be better for him to work out with just a catcher, with no others around, and work through things, unless of course, his instructor is there. He has the mechanics going his way, I think the mental aspect now needs some work, and in my mind it starts with focus with less "thinking".

I agree with BOF and Mallot's Dad.

From your post, it seems there were two focuses for your son during this bullpen: Throw strikes and have perfect mechanics. That is hard for anyone to do.

Sometimes in off-season bullpens, it's OK to focus solely on getting mechanics right. That might mean that he doesn't throw as many strikes, but you're setting building blocks to throwing harder or eventually put him in a better position to throw strikes. Other times, the goal is to be sharp with the bullpen and throw strikes such as in-between starts.

I wrote a post in the past on this subject that might be helpful. I hope it can help: http://www.thinkpitching.com/2...chers-mechanics.html

Stu

I agree with what think pitching just said. When working on mechanics, you shouldn't worry about throwing strikes. My son goes to a high level instructor in the off season. He rarely looks at where the ball goes. In fact most of the time, he stands about 3/4 of the way between the mound and the plate with his back to the catcher and never looks at where the ball goes. It's very likely, while working on a mechanical change, location will get worse until that mechanic is perfected. In the off season, worry about mechanics and not location. During in season bullpens, focus on location and don't mess with mechanics. Save mechanics for the offseason.

I completely disagree. Much of the mechanical aspect of pitching directly relates to the ability to throw strikes and repeat your delivery. If you are throwing off a mound to a catcher and going through your whole delivery, then why would you attempt to practice things that wouldn't be instituted during game play? Mechanical work that is broken down and done step-by-step can utilize different aspects of the pitching motion and perhaps focus more on one thing than another. But if you are on the mound, and a catcher is squatted, then IMO there is no other way to throw other than to throw strikes. If you are not mechanically sound and not capable of throwing strikes consistently, then you are not ready to get on the mound and throw to a catcher.

Basketball players that take jumpshots in practice worry about the mechanical aspect of hand positioning and body balance pertaining to the shot release. But they don't take blind shots just to solely focus on their mechanics. If they are shooting the ball in a game-like scenario, they are shooting to make the shot.

If a quarterback is working on his 3-step drop and release on a flanker screen, he will focus on the mechanical aspect of the backsteps he take, and the slot in which he releases the ball. But when the quarterback runs that play in a game-like situation, he wouldn't make a blind throw just to solely focus on his mechanics. He will try to hit the receiver in the chest.

If a pitcher is on the mound, going through his full motion, throwing to a catcher, then there is no reason why he shouldn't worry about throwing strikes. If his mechanics are a causation of his inability to throw strikes, then he should step off the mound and break things down step-by-step until he figures out what is wrong. Once he fixes it, then get back up there and use the sound mechanics that he has worked on and throw the ball as if it were a game.

I don't know JH. I have agreed with most of what you have said, but, if you are working on changing a particular mechanic, I think attaining muscle memory for that mechanic is more important than the result - at that time. If a pitcher is thinking about the mechanic AND about throwing strikes, that is too much to think about in my mind. I know you will probably say that he should work on it on flat ground first. That is true, but it is different from on the mound. I almost think that strikes should come as the result of good, repeatable mechanics. Once the mechanic is ingrained in the pitcher to where he doesn't have to think about repeating that mechanic, then he can focus on throwing strikes.

Maybe I'm off, but I just think if you are in the off season, working on repeating a specific mechanic, strikes shouldn't be the focus yet. Perfect the mechanic first, then throw strikes. Hopefully, they will come together.

quote:

That is true, but it is different from on the mound. I almost think that strikes should come as the result of good, repeatable mechanics. Once the mechanic is ingrained in the pitcher to where he doesn't have to think about repeating that mechanic, then he can focus on throwing strikes.

I agree 100% with this. However, I feel that in a bullpen type situation, the mechanical aspect of things should already be ingrained for the pitcher. Until that happens, he isn't ready to be pitching in a game-like situation.

At my college, we start our throwing program on December 1st, and we aren't off a mound until around January 20th. For that month and a half, we focus solely on every positive motion we do. Once we are on the mound, repeating those actions become muscle memory and second nature.

I believe we both have a similar train of thought, just a bit of tweaking in the way we go about the specifics.

Pitching is about throwing strikes, or at least hitting your target. I agree with JH here. Understandably, as one makes changes in his mechanics, there will be a learning curve in which the control may suffer, but that ability to hit the target should be the goal. Great mechanics are pointless if you cannot hit your target on a consistent basis. The goal of consistent mechanics should be to allow the pitcher to hit his spots consistently. The location is your feedback for what you are doing correctly or incorrectly. Use that feedback to guide your work. If you ignore the feedback of location and feel that you can "flip a switch" once the season starts you will be mistaken. Every time a ball is thrown, whether you are playing catch or pitching, you should throw to a target with the goal of hitting that target. And yes I believe it is important to focus the eyes on the mitt. Once the front side leg starts any movement down, the eyes should be on the prize. That prize being the mitt.

So, basically what you are saying is that your mechanics should be totally worked out and perfected prior to hitting a mound for any type of bullpen work. Is that right? I can see that, other than things change slightly once you start to throw downhill. There may still be a little tweaking to be done at that time. I do think overall, we are on the same page.

Perhaps the OP should take note - Maybe you should work with the pitcher on a mechanical change on flat ground prior to trying to changing that mechanic on the mound, while doing a bull pen. Once you hit the mound, it should be very minor adjustments.

quote:

Are instructors and coaches focusing too much on mechanics and not enough on really dialing in your eyes on the target throughout the zone until the ball impacts the mitt, target, etc.? If a kid has good mechanics, will he be able to allow his body to go into automatic if he simply locks his eyes on the target and thinks of only that - similar to a computer guided missle system - brain is the computer, eyes are the laser guided system and the arm is the launcher. Where the eyes go, the ball goes.

This has been discussed here before.

Certain people can repeat their actions so well they can shoot free throws with their eyes closed. In fact there are several things that can be done with your eyes closed.

Obviously there is much more involved in pitching so it is harder to throw with your eyes closed. However if the mechanics were absolutely perfect and were repeated exactly, a pitcher should not need to glue in on the target.

I agree with whoever said the head is more important than the eyes. Actually there are several things more important than the eyes.

The eyes can actually cause problems with mechanics. If youe mechanics are off, the pitcher will depend on the eyes to make mechanical adjustments.

We used a drill where pitchers would find the target, close their eyes and deliver. This causes total dependency on the body and mechanics. Most pitchers can be around the strike zone fairly consistently after doing this for awhile. Then when they use their eyes, things get easy.

All that said, the eyes are important, but too much dependency on the eyes can become a problem until the rest of the body is working correctly.

Not sure if many agree, but that's my opinion.

PG,
I think you bring up a great point. Body awareness is very important for a pitcher to be successful. One of the best drills one can do is to go through his swing motion or pitching motion with the eyes closed to feel what the body is doing and to gain better body control. Throwing with the eyes closed to feel the body is a great drill. Once we start pitching and playing catch though, I think it is so important to have a very specific target to hit. Just the like free throw shooter that can shoot with the eyes closed, once they add they eyes, the percentage of successful shots improves even more. They body can do much to place the pitcher in a position to be successful, but without the visual focus, they will not reach that goal. I believe we are mostly in agreement with our statements.

I agree with you PG, and I agree with much that JH has stated. I also agree there has to be a target to focus in on, even if just for a split second before the pitch.

The OP's son is only 15, so there is a lot of development to take place as yet. I know as a younger pitcher son spent more time on flat ground working on mechanics than he did as an older more mature pitcher. Now I would be lying if I told you that once he begins BP on the mound he throws perfectly, there is some adjustment time he has to allow for. I think that has to be with any pitcher. The body still needs time to adjust.

Is this the case, is he just beginning his bull pens?

I definetly would NOT have others tell your son what he is doing wrong during a BP, but rather allow his instuctor to sort it out with him later on. Frustration DOES NOT help either, it could very well be that was what it was. There are so many things that can throw off a pitcher, especially a young one. Not to make excuses, as the pitcher should practice what they call sameness (doing the same thing no matter what the circumstances), the earlier you begin the easier it is later on.

JMO.

I don't think anyone can truly ever "perfect" pitching mechanics because quite frankly, the perfect pitching mechanics haven't truly been discovered yet. Everyone has their own opinion on things and everyone has different things that work for them.

In my opinion, at a young age such as the OP's son, the most important aspect of his pitching career is consistency. Whether that consistency has to do with velocity, location, movement, arm speed, foot landing, anything. Everything needs to be worked out individually before everything can be brought together.

I'll use an example of another facet of life to try to tie in what I'm saying. Let's say you have an algebra problem: 3x+2=8. Now being that I am in college and have gone through my fair share of math classes, I can take one glance at that and know that x=2. But if I backtrack myself to when I was in 6th grade, and just learning algebra, that problem isn't so easy. Back then, my math teachers taught me how to break this problem down step-by-step, one equation at a time.

3x+2=8

3x= 8
...-2 -2

3x= 6

x/3= 6/3

x= 2

Once the groundwork was laid out for me and I began to practice enough algebraic equations, it became second nature and much easier for me to figure out. Then, I moved onto a more advanced part of mathematics.

To me, the same concept applies to pitching. If your release point/arm slot is inconsistent, then you can't just get on the mound and think that it will fix itself in a game-like situation. If your hips fly open at different times on every pitch, you can't think that your delivery will suddenly become in sync when you are throwing off the mound. Those issues should be addressed individually and practiced. Once they are fixed, then you move onto the next step. Until then, being a consistent pitcher would be nearly impossible because of specific mechanical flaws. The best examples I can give of this are Sandy Koufax and Nolan Ryan. I don't know what issues they had in the beginning of their careers, but I do know that they threw with unbelievable velocity and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. But through repetitions over the years, things worked out, and they came out alright in the end. I don't know Koufax or Ryan personally, but I can almost guarantee that they spent plenty of time doing "sides", working on their delivery and perfecting whatever aspects of it worked for them.

To get back to the OP's original question. I couldn't agree more about having several different people trying to provide input while he is pitching. Is it bad to get different opinions on mechanical things? Absolutely not. But not at the same time, especially for a 15 year old.

I appreciate all the info you guys are providing. Is working on focus a good way to bring things back in line when you start to have control issues? Kind of a reset button, where you can shut off the mind messing with your body? Or does it come down purely to mechanics and muscle memory? He has pretty good mechanics, but I just want him to find a way to work through things during a game when he starts to have control issues.

quote:

Originally posted by Mallot's Dad:
I appreciate all the info you guys are providing. Is working on focus a good way to bring things back in line when you start to have control issues? Kind of a reset button, where you can shut off the mind messing with your body? Or does it come down purely to mechanics and muscle memory? He has pretty good mechanics, but I just want him to find a way to work through things during a game when he starts to have control issues.

Is he by any chance going through a growth period? It's not uncommon problem for growing pitchers, my son always had some issues with velo jumps, which meant dial down for awhile and concentrate on hitting spots.

This isn't an uncommon problem, if he has an instructor it's best that he diagnose any issues. Remember that this is a process that is never ending, mine is 25 and still working at it.