FOOD FOR THOUGHT

Great article--- hope the pre HS parents are reading this

My son pitched in LL and so did every other kid on the team that could throw the ball 46 ft. He played shortstop, catcher and outfield at 13 and 14. He started being a catcher only at 15. He just converted to pitcher at 18. Guess what? Scouts really like the fact that he has a "fresh" arm! The problem lies in the egos of coaches wanting to win instead of developing players. Development and winning can go hand in hand if the coach is truly a good coach.

Good coaches win and DEVELOP players at the same time

Is there a cause and effect. Is it if you throw too much or not enough? If you throw properly or improperly?

How about including poor mechanics in the formula ?

That's pretty darn sad when little leaguers are having elbow surgeries.

Uneducated coaching and parenting.

No excuse for this, none.

CV

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Good coaches win and DEVELOP players at the same time

Nothing unusual but you've got it backwards.

They develop players and then win.

TEACHERMAN

I totally have it wrong--I forgot YOU have all the answers-- **** it I hope I sleep tonight

Good coaches win at the same time develop their players. Good coaches develop their players and at the same time win. Both of you are right. I have also seen some very good coaches that did not win alot of games at the HS level. They are at programs that have very little talent and no feeder system worth a darn. Very little community support or none at all. They take what they have and do the best job possible under the circumstances and develop the players that they have. They might not win any championships but they are still very good coaches.

In 3A Final Four we had our ace pitch 7 with about 128 pitches to lose after two infield GB were mishandled to the number 1 seed.

In the losers bracket , the coach brought him back in the second game in the fourth only four hours after the first game. He pitched one inning getting the team out of a jam and the Dad when down to the dugout and said to the coach " no more". We lost that game in teh bottom of eight. Was he right or wrong....this kid is a definite prospect (11 grader)

In other sports do parents go down to the bench and tell the coach what to do?

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
In other sports do parents go down to the bench and tell the coach what to do?

No, they yell from the stands.

In the situation described, I would have done the same thing. In fact the minute he stepped on the mound in the second game I would have stopped it. Sooner if I saw him warming up.

You cannot blowout a baskeball players arm from throwing too many free throws in a game. You cannot throw out a QB's arm from throwing too many passes in a game.

This was just plain irresponsible.

You say this kid is the real deal...so therefore we can assume he has the potential to play in college...then shame on the coach for allowing his greed for a win to hamper and jeopardize the youngmans future...if I had a son,who pitched, I would have been down there in a heart beat...and furthermore...when was the last time a coach paid for the surgery, stayed out of work to care for a child who has been injured or drove them to physical therapy...this is my child and never, ever forget that!!!!!!! If you are misusing him for your own selfish motives then you would have me to answer to...

So basically with pitchers it is a different situation. If the shortstop had a sprainrd ankle and was playing etc etc etc. How about if the running back was put back in the game after suffering an injury. I am sort of stirring the pot here but somehow we have to get this pitchers thing solved.

My Thoughts:

01--no way ever does a parent come into the dugout/bench during the game--NEVER EVER--all you do is embarass your son and infuriate the coach

02-- pitching situations should be taken care of before the SEASON STARTS--if you as a parent have concerns speak with the coach before the season and reach an amicable agreement

03-- in HS the player is old enough to speak for himself so let him attend to business

I like Wills point regarding position players--in my sons senior year early on the season he pulled a groin muscle bad enough that he had trouble walking--but he never took himself out--I never intervened--it was his desire to keep playing--what I did not know he had arranged with the AD to get electric stim and therapy every day, even on game days---the AD was taking him there

If you have HS players give them their due--they are maturing young men and somehow manage to cope with situations

How did pitching cause the boy to have BOTH elbows operated on? Do you put that much stress on your glove side?

quote:

So basically with pitchers it is a different situation.

Nope never said that. I was responding to a specific situation.

Injuries are not overuse problems. A SS with a sprained ankle can tell if he can play or not, as can an injured football player. This is an Apples & oranges comparison.

Most players will not speak up in a situation like this, they will pitch until their arm falls off.

TR,

"pitching situations should be taken care of before the SEASON STARTS--if you as a parent have concerns speak with the coach before the season and reach an amicable agreement"

I agree, but have you ever had a parent com up to you and say " if he pitches 128 in the first game I do not want him pitching four hours later in the second game." ?

I would guess the answer is no because most people would presume that no coach would be stupid enough to do this.

apples & oranges - I'm not aware that playing with a "groin pull" can have the consequences of a "groin transplant surgery" followed by 14 months of "groin massage therapy"

and hey - if it becomes NECESSARY for a parent to approach the coach in the dugout area regarding pitchcount issues as described above
the embaressment is the COACH's

Admittedly it is a problem. I appreciate all positions here. However, comparing damaged elbow and shoulder joints to pulled muscles doesn't seem to me to be valid. There is a big difference between hopping around on a gimpy leg and pitching with a hurt arm. Shortstops aren't on a "balls fielded count". A pitchers livelihood is on the line and the top causes of pitchers injuries overuse and poor mechanics. I don't know of too many hs coaches who would refuse to pitch their best pitcher because they do not like his mechanics. Fewer still know how to correct the problem if they see it. I think hs coaches try to use pitch counts and do an adequate job. At leaast 80% of them do an adequate job.

As far as going to the dugout! A definite no-no. Unless then coach is putting the player in danger. The above example of 2 games in one day is a definite "ain't no way" situation. I would rather make a jerk out of myself than have the coach angry at the kid and punishing him for saying "no way" to the coach. I'll take the hit.

I personally always made sure that the coach and I had an understanding at the beginning of the season. TR is right about that being the way to handle it.

We are taught to go all out and give everything that you have. My son played hurt in football all the time. Coaches have got to be taught that arms are fragile and every pitcher is different. Some guys have rubber arms while others need 5 days rest after 3 innings. Coaches need to care and get to know their players limitations and strengths. The simple act of win at all costs is against what we try to instill in our ballplaying children. Do your best and excellence are preferred traits. Playing with honor and dignity.

by bigH

quote:

Coaches have got to be taught that arms are fragile and every pitcher is different

just find em a job where they can't harm anyone

Trhit

Parents do not come into the dugout. Years ago no brainer but go to a game today. I see them talking to their kids in between innings.

Of course I talk to my son in between innings.

That's when I tell him what pitches I want him to throw to the first batter the next inning.

After that I need to signal the pitches in, but the first batter he will already know.