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Food for thought...

Panther DadPanther Dad5,000+ posts
May 28, 2007
Showing up opponents

I just read in a Sports Illustrated article on Milwaukee young first baseman Prince Fielder about an incident he had recently in a game against the Pittsburgh Pirates.

Apparently Fielder scored the go-ahead run and "jumped up and down on home plate, pumped his fist, and facing the pitcher, hollered like a linebacker after a sack," according to the article. Pirates catcher Ryan Doumit called Fielder's reaction "bush league."

Wow, Doumit should come to a Texas high school baseball playoff game some time, where he would have a chance to see stuff like that every other inning.

Just in the last few weeks, I've seen a player glare into the opposing dugout after drawing a walk. That same player crossed his arms at the wrists, again toward the opposing dugout, after stepping on second base for a force out. One of his teammates talked to trash to one of his opponents after sealing a 10-run victory.

I've seen an entire dugout of players rush out of the dugout twice to congratulate a teammate who scored with the ball still in play. And we've seen those same players rushing out of the dugout after a home run to congratulate their teammate, but also to talk smack to the other dugout.

All the while, the coaches seem to turn a blind eye to these blatant cases of showing up your opponents, something I've always thought was a huge no-no in the great game of baseball.

Fielder calls stuff like this "Freedom of Speech" in Sports Illustrated.

As you might have guessed by now, I'm with Doumit.

Posted by Todd Wills

------------------------------------------------------------

I must have been at the same game as Mr. Wills this weekend. I wish all teams could learn to win (and lose) with class.

Last edited {1}
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KI kevin in missouri city100+ posts
Shoot, I was at a game last week where a pitcher had some choice words almost after every inning. It's a big playoff game and the kid was emotional so I didn't really think anything of it.

After he struck out the last batter of the game to end the game and series, he was walking off the field and had some more choice words, none of which could be printed here. He did not relent from the mound to the baseline at which point the batter who had already turned his back, turned around and rushed the pitcher who had been talking all game. Well the pitcher decided to step behind a teammate and that teammate took a right hook to the chin.
K knowitall100+ posts
Panther Dad
HSBBWeb Old Timer

Posted March 06, 2007 08:28 AM
You're kidding, right knowitall? Did your boys come running home saying they were called names by Georgetown? Give us a break with this type of comment. How 'bout contributing something positive? <-- just a suggestion.

Posts: 2801 | Location: Plano, Texas, USA | Registered: December 28, 2002
Panther DadPanther Dad5,000+ posts
knowitall - I didn't write the article -- Todd Wills did. And I wasn't going to get into a discussion about a particular team or teams. But, I may owe you an apology for my comment to your post in March. I saw a few things this past weekend that were hard to take, even for those that did not have a stake in the games.

Concerning the article by Wills, my comments stand. There are teams that play with attitude and still win & lose with class. Then there are teams that do neither.

Yes, you can argue that this topic is not particularly positive....but it reveals a part of the game that is getting uglier over time. I'd like to see the trend reverse.

-PD
J jesuitbaseball100+ posts
This has been a topic of debate in the dugout at my school. Our coach doesn't allow any of this trash talking to opposing players, umpires, parents, or our own teammates.

Some kids on my team argue that in the heat of the moment you need to say things to make people understand, and still others say that when the adrenaline is pumping, you say things you might later regret.

IMO, there is no reason for this "bush league" stuff that goes on. When Barry Bonds hits a homerun and sits at homeplate and watches it, why isn't he beaned the next at bat? Why do pitchers feel the need to talk smack or throw up a "K" sign after a strikeout?

I sure as heck know Bob Gibson would've put one in Bonds' earhole, or anyone else for that matter that talked smack.

my 2 cents...
Panther DadPanther Dad5,000+ posts
TimeToStepUp -- so, are you saying that you have no issues with the on-field antics described in Wills article?

Your last two posts make little sense....especially if you are comparing throwing something in frustration to trash-talking among teams. I don't condone either act -- but they're not the same thing. One shows a certain degree of immaturity, while the other shows lack of respect for your opponent. If you're targeting me or my son....get it out in the open....I'd be glad to discuss this subject here or in private.

If your point is to remind parents that they need to be better examples during games and at home.....well, we all agree. But, ask your kid whether there is more trash talk today than a few years ago....I think you'll be surprised.

I missed it last night! Was there trash talk during the National Speeling Bee????? Big Grin
Last edited by Panther Dad
J jucobaseball7710+ posts
this sounds just like what happened to mckinney when they played at poteet...pitcher talked the whole game..their dugout was just as bad..no class through the whole team..when there kids would hit a gournd ball in the infield they would try and take out the first basemans legs from mckinney..i was really disapointed throughout the game i thought they coaches should of done something to stop that "bush" league..but hey they won the game so i guess it works just not the type of baseball one likes to see
D Dtiger1,000+ posts
I watched a thing yesterday on SC (it might've been Baseball Tonight or something) about the "unwritten rules" of baseball. Most, if not all, of these "rules" I was well aware of... "protect your fellow teammates," "don't try to break up a no-no or perfect game with a bunt," etc. My question is, one: what are some of ya'lls unwritten rules and do they warrant a "response"?
P1tickethead110P1tickethead110100+ posts
Juco,
Have you ever heard a dugout that wasn't like that in high school. You either never go to games or you set so far away you can't really hear. You wanna hear real trash talking , mix in a high school football game. You would see what goes on in baseball is pretty tame. There is always going to be a certain amout of trash talking in the dugout at the highly competitive level. You are for sure not telling the truth about our pitchers or our base runners. I personally have not seen any trash talking on the field by our kids. I am not saying it never happens but I have not seen any.

Why are you so anti-Poteet? Were you traumatized as a small child by a Pirate movie or something? hahahaha
Last edited by P1tickethead110
P1tickethead110P1tickethead110100+ posts
Dtiger,
Don't steal when you have the game clearly in hand.

Don't go home on a pass ball when you have a huge lead and the game is pretty much over.

There are a couple we always went by.

I don't know why but this reminds me about an incident that happened to my team (back when i coached) We were a 9U team and we were just killing this team , we were up like 15-0 in the 2nd inning. The other team was just so bad they could not get us out. We purposly got into a run down so they could get the 3rd out. The teams kids were so embarrased I felt like it was the right thing to do. Well I ended up getting tossed by the umpire because he said I was showing the other team up by giving up that 3rd out. Just thought I would share that story. Even when you try to so a little sportsmanship you can still get punished.
TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
Perhaps it is time to go back to the "old ways"---on the field retribution

Heard Goose Gossage talking this morning about ARODs so called "MINE __I GOT IT"---All Goose said he had better have "happy feet" the next time he steps in the batters box

Trouble is nowadays if you throw inside after a situation you, the pitcher gets ejected
LongtossLongtoss100+ posts
Couple of thoughts:

1. I didn't realize the influence our High schoolers have until a buddy of mine with a 10 year old attended some recent playoff games. Well, there was some jawing between the teams and my buddy told me I hope my son doesn't talk smack when he gets beaned next time. So, you never know who's watching.

2. I think the media can be part of the blame here, they love to promote a good brawl or trash talking at the pro level. Saw a clip this morning they love to try and stir the pot.

3. Coaches and umpires have some control over this, but don't expect a coach to sit a star when winning is everything. Umpires can step in, but where do they draw the line.

4. Parents - you have to do your part and like Texan said and I agree "Let you talking be done on the field". Control your emotions and channel this energy into your play on the field.

LT
P1tickethead110P1tickethead110100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Sandy:
Just because "everbody does it" doesn't make it right. Until the coaches and parents forbid it and there are consequenses to the behavior...boys will be boys.


This is true. Its not right. My point is not that its ok to do it. My point is there is not just one or two teams out there doing it. I wish they would just stop the talk and play ball. If you really want to get to another team, then beat them on the field. I think its important to not only lose with class but also win with class too. The latter may be more important.

There is a very thin line between confidence and cockyness. How would anyone define trash talking, Sure there are the obvious things like making a K symbol on the mound when you make a strike out. Or telling the visitors to get off your "F ing" field. But what about the borderline stuff. Like is it ok for a pitcher who just worked his way out of a jam by striking someone out and giving the fist pump. Some might say thats trash talking. Or is it trash talking for a dugout and crowd to yell out repeatedly ball four before the pitch throws on a 3-1 count? Is it trash talking if you cheer another team's throwing error that scores you the go ahead run? I think the definition of trash talking changes depending on if you are winning or losing.
Last edited by P1tickethead110
swingdoctor14swingdoctor14500+ posts
I was reminded of an incident that happened to me 18 years ago coaching against a DISD team. My club was up over 20 runs and a kid stole second. I called time out and met him at the bag and told him, "I don't know what the rules about this are but after the next pitch - if you're not back on first base, your uniform will be taken up when we get back to the school." He stole first and not one head was turned from the opponent. I allowed our hitters to hit but instructed them to run until they were tagged out. We never advanced on a passed ball from the start of the game. Ya'll are right seeing as how I never had to explain it to the players. They knew not to laugh and to show up this team. Especially after one of them had to steal first.
P1tickethead110P1tickethead110100+ posts
quote:


Thats how this momma defines trash talking.


I agree with that too Sandy. Unless its like Beast said he was tagging him out. Personally if I saw my kid taunting the other team I might bean him at batting practice (by accident of course)

I like it when I see the P1 son (P.5 Ver2) out there talking to the other team laughing with them when he is on base or whe he is covering the base. I always encouraged him to ask what school they go to or how is their season going or something like that. I told him its always good to do because you might be that kids teammate someday.
Ken GuthrieKen Guthrie1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Panther Dad:
May 28, 2007
Showing up opponents

I just read in a Sports Illustrated article on Milwaukee young first baseman Prince Fielder about an incident he had recently in a game against the Pittsburgh Pirates.

Apparently Fielder scored the go-ahead run and "jumped up and down on home plate, pumped his fist, and facing the pitcher, hollered like a linebacker after a sack," according to the article. Pirates catcher Ryan Doumit called Fielder's reaction "bush league."

Wow, Doumit should come to a Texas high school baseball playoff game some time, where he would have a chance to see stuff like that every other inning.

Just in the last few weeks, I've seen a player glare into the opposing dugout after drawing a walk. That same player crossed his arms at the wrists, again toward the opposing dugout, after stepping on second base for a force out. One of his teammates talked to trash to one of his opponents after sealing a 10-run victory.

I've seen an entire dugout of players rush out of the dugout twice to congratulate a teammate who scored with the ball still in play. And we've seen those same players rushing out of the dugout after a home run to congratulate their teammate, but also to talk smack to the other dugout.

All the while, the coaches seem to turn a blind eye to these blatant cases of showing up your opponents, something I've always thought was a huge no-no in the great game of baseball.

Fielder calls stuff like this "Freedom of Speech" in Sports Illustrated.

As you might have guessed by now, I'm with Doumit.

Posted by Todd Wills

------------------------------------------------------------

I must have been at the same game as Mr. Wills this weekend. I wish all teams could learn to win (and lose) with class.



PD-

I think the X-generation is coming forward and now we are seeing things like this on T.V.

Is there fault in it? If so, who's to blame?
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