It would take awhile to explain all of this and I don't have the time right now. However, there are events held at certain times when absolutely no contact can be made. This is usually met with a simple hello we are not allowed to speak to you at this time. That includes parents! There are other time frames that are open and coaches'recruiters can talk to both players and parents all they want. Usually bthis needs to be done away from the actual event taking place.
I could be wrong, but to me the best approach is to let them contact you. If the player is good enough, he will get lots of attention. When they (the recruiters) start the communication... things are serious. At the higher levels, the recruiters go after who they want. There are thousands who want to play at there college. They receive thousands of promotional bios and videos. It's the ones they ask for that count. But just because they ask for info/video, fill out questionnaire, etc. doesn't mean they are really going to be interested. Sometimes the asking is just a polite way to end a difficult conversation.
99% of all players are found by recruiters rather than the other way around. The player with no offers from a high level college is not likely to be recruited by other top DI schools based on any promotional marketing. They find the players they want rather than the player finding them. They (the recruiters) work very hard to find players. Good players just need to be where they're at, it's pretty much that simple. The true marketing doesn't happen on the phone, via email, or mail... It happens on the field!
PG: just one question. Don't you also think it is also important to let specific schools know if you are interested in them?
birdman,
Yes, especially when other schools at the same level are showing serious interest.
Yes, especially when other schools at the same level are showing serious interest.
FWIW, I do believe it is a good idea to contact the schools that your son is interested in. Not with all the marketing malarky, videos and stats junk that some people send out (again my opinion only) but simply letting them know some basic facts and your son's schedule at tournaments that you think they will be attending.
From first hand experience I know it works. The school my son will be attending had a coaching change just about a year ago now and I faxed the new guys a note where he would be playing and that he was interested in their school. The new guys watched him every day at Stanford and for a week at PG's WWBA and offered him after the tournament.
Of course if the coaches felt he couldn't play at that level it wouldn't have mattered what I sent them. So if there's a moral to the story it might be to try and figure out what level you think your son can play at and let those schools know you're interested and where they can see him play and see what happens after that.
I do not think the message should be to just sit around and wait for Santa Claus to come calling.
From first hand experience I know it works. The school my son will be attending had a coaching change just about a year ago now and I faxed the new guys a note where he would be playing and that he was interested in their school. The new guys watched him every day at Stanford and for a week at PG's WWBA and offered him after the tournament.
Of course if the coaches felt he couldn't play at that level it wouldn't have mattered what I sent them. So if there's a moral to the story it might be to try and figure out what level you think your son can play at and let those schools know you're interested and where they can see him play and see what happens after that.
I do not think the message should be to just sit around and wait for Santa Claus to come calling.
quote:FWIW, I do believe it is a good idea to contact the schools that your son is interested in. Not with all the marketing malarky, videos and stats junk that some people send out (again my opinion only) but simply letting them know some basic facts and your son's schedule at tournaments that you think they will be attending.
Again we did all that and would not have got the offers we wanted if we didn't do it.
Pure and simple: Market your player. DVD, web site what ever it takes. It works and we did no show cases.
Two points I would make are 1) be objective and realistic about what level your son can play at in college when approaching schools and 2) with that said, things can change dramatically between the summer before sr year and spring of senior year. Mine generated a fair amount of summer interest but hit the wall in late summer and even into the fall so couldn't close the deal with recruiters. Hit the weights and benefitted from several months of physical maturity and was a different player in the spring and then recontacted those schools who showed an interest and we were interested in. Wound up with more options than we really wanted.
Moral of the story is if it doesn't work out this summer all is far from lost. You'll have to work a little harder and maybe get more aggressive but the goal can still be achieved.
Moral of the story is if it doesn't work out this summer all is far from lost. You'll have to work a little harder and maybe get more aggressive but the goal can still be achieved.
Have to agree with TR.
Baseball is a small community,they have their own way of doing business and they have been doing it the same way for years.
Baseball people talk to baseball people. Let them do their jobs.
Baseball is a small community,they have their own way of doing business and they have been doing it the same way for years.
Baseball people talk to baseball people. Let them do their jobs.
What I am saying is that you as parents and players need to relax, especially this early in the process, because you have no idea as to the total picture--I am not going to up you hopes by telling you and your son that so and so coach talked to me about your son--the next day he may see a player at your sons position that he likes better and he may never call you---but the boy is creating interest
TR is spot on here having been thru this process with my daughter... it is indeed a roller coaster. Had a D1 school (not at the top of the list) show incredible interest in her.. special camp invites, calls letters etc... then the contact stopped so after 2-3 months I decided to call and she used those exact words: "we found someone we liked better"... bigger and stronger as she put it. It wasnt the dream school but it still stung a bit as all rejection does.
I am sure the kids and families that play for TR know his method of operation. You have to research and have a comfort level with what you are getting into. Trust is a difficult thing to have one person for another in today's society but its a component of this journey.
TR is spot on here having been thru this process with my daughter... it is indeed a roller coaster. Had a D1 school (not at the top of the list) show incredible interest in her.. special camp invites, calls letters etc... then the contact stopped so after 2-3 months I decided to call and she used those exact words: "we found someone we liked better"... bigger and stronger as she put it. It wasnt the dream school but it still stung a bit as all rejection does.
I am sure the kids and families that play for TR know his method of operation. You have to research and have a comfort level with what you are getting into. Trust is a difficult thing to have one person for another in today's society but its a component of this journey.
I agree with TR's approach, if they want you, they know how to get hold of you. Son's college coach told him a big school was asking about him. To my knowledge they never contacted him. Hearing about XYZ schools can make a kid get lazy and stop the outreach process they have to do themselves.
Son is convinced he is good enough and coach will come through, in a few months we'll find out if that is true.
Also, I know it sounds tough, but don't believe all the hype coaches may say about your sons. I still hear it, my eyes say otherwise. If son is so good, why hasn't any program contacted him???? The proof is in the phone calls from coaches, nothing else means anything.
Son is convinced he is good enough and coach will come through, in a few months we'll find out if that is true.
Also, I know it sounds tough, but don't believe all the hype coaches may say about your sons. I still hear it, my eyes say otherwise. If son is so good, why hasn't any program contacted him???? The proof is in the phone calls from coaches, nothing else means anything.
How timely.
Just returned from Stanford. Son got no calls on 1st. By the time camp was over, he had what appeared to be major interst from several schools.
He just called me and said he had gotten his 1st call. From one of the schools at the very top of his list. "We are very interested in you and want to get you up here soon to tour the campus."
Wow. 13 years of blood, sweat, hard work and not only a few tears. Hopefully a dream is about to come true. I have a lump in my throat.
Just returned from Stanford. Son got no calls on 1st. By the time camp was over, he had what appeared to be major interst from several schools.
He just called me and said he had gotten his 1st call. From one of the schools at the very top of his list. "We are very interested in you and want to get you up here soon to tour the campus."
Wow. 13 years of blood, sweat, hard work and not only a few tears. Hopefully a dream is about to come true. I have a lump in my throat.
quote:Wow. 13 years of blood, sweat, hard work and not only a few tears. Hopefully a dream is about to come true. I have a lump in my throat.
TR,
Very good advice.
However, don't you think that its important for the family to know something in order to let the school know that they are serious about "that" school especially if they are out of state.
In my experience Recruiters really try to figure out if a player would even want to go to their school, especially the out of state school.
That seems to be a huge hurdle for players is to convince that school that they indeed would want to go their over the in state options.
That is only one reason, even at the early stages to let the family know. You of course would advise them on what to send, say etc so as not to put them off.
Very good advice.
However, don't you think that its important for the family to know something in order to let the school know that they are serious about "that" school especially if they are out of state.
In my experience Recruiters really try to figure out if a player would even want to go to their school, especially the out of state school.
That seems to be a huge hurdle for players is to convince that school that they indeed would want to go their over the in state options.
That is only one reason, even at the early stages to let the family know. You of course would advise them on what to send, say etc so as not to put them off.
In my experience recruiters first watched the players and talked to the coaches to find out type of player son is and maybe get some back ground info on him.
Coaches some times pointed out players to a recruiter who coach thinks may fit into their program.
Coaches have to be honest with the colleges.
I know of a college who made offer to a players they never saw play based on the coaches recommendation. So I imagine if asked the coach will also inform the recruitor he thinks your son can't play at that colleges level
The next step was up to the recruiter if he is interested he will contact you and find out how serious you are in his school
Coaches some times pointed out players to a recruiter who coach thinks may fit into their program.
Coaches have to be honest with the colleges.
I know of a college who made offer to a players they never saw play based on the coaches recommendation. So I imagine if asked the coach will also inform the recruitor he thinks your son can't play at that colleges level
The next step was up to the recruiter if he is interested he will contact you and find out how serious you are in his school
quote:Originally posted by njbb:
In my experience recruiters first watched the players and talked to the coaches to find out type of player son is and maybe get some back ground info on him.
That's the way I saw it happen at Stanford last week. Sons coach said 6 or 7 coaches came by during the "big game" on Sunken and, asked about "Jonsie over there. Tell me about him. etc." Next day came contacts from those same guys.
quote:Originally posted by gonefishin:quote:Originally posted by njbb:
In my experience recruiters first watched the players and talked to the coaches to find out type of player son is and maybe get some back ground info on him.
That's the way I saw it happen at Stanford last week. Sons coach said 6 or 7 coaches came by during the "big game" on Sunken and, asked about "Jonsie over there. Tell me about him. etc." Next day came contacts from those same guys.
I thought Louisiana was a better nickname but thats just me....
btw your son and I were on the same team
Marketing and recruiting is different for different players. Player "A" could do very little other than play baseball and be swamped with offers. Player "X" could do a great number of exposure events with very little to show for his time and his parent's money. It's ALL about talent. This sounds simple enough ...... the real problem is knowing whether you have player "A" or player "X" ------- OR some other letter! I suggest parents spend more money on getting better than getting seen.
Fungo
Fungo
Fungo brings up some interesting points and so do others, IMO. Each situation is different also, some players play in summer for the exposure, others play to get better for the fall.
All travel coaches do things differently, this should be established when you agree to sign up and spend money to play with that coach.
My son's travel coach did things differently, he let each and every player know when there was interest, and no interest. It cost a lot of money to play for the summer, he was pretty up front if he didn't see the interest, to allow the player and their family to decide whether to continue with his particular program or not.
All travel coaches do things differently, this should be established when you agree to sign up and spend money to play with that coach.
My son's travel coach did things differently, he let each and every player know when there was interest, and no interest. It cost a lot of money to play for the summer, he was pretty up front if he didn't see the interest, to allow the player and their family to decide whether to continue with his particular program or not.
quote:Originally posted by Fungo:
Marketing and recruiting is different for different players. Player "A" could do very little other than play baseball and be swamped with offers. Player "X" could do a great number of exposure events with very little to show for his time and his parent's money. It's ALL about talent. This sounds simple enough ...... the real problem is knowing whether you have player "A" or player "X" ------- OR some other letter! I suggest parents spend more money on getting better than getting seen.
Fungo
question: what if what sets your son apart is a skill more refined and harder to see.. say an exceptional batting eye... patience at the plate.. incredibly low to non existent strike outs.. high OBP?
When you get to a certain level of play everybody can run/hit/throw but the true athletic freaks and 5 tools are easy to spot. I have seen this first hand with a couple of girls who played on my daughters FP team.
In short how hard is it to get beyond the "blue jeans" as Billy Bean said..?
Love these types of threads.
How can anyone not see the value of marketing your player. Yes there are players and situations where you may not have to market a player. Yes there are situations where players get schools they want to attend make them an offer. May not need to market.
For the rest marketing is mandatory. It may be showcasing, top travel team etc but direct contact with colleges that you like is a great way to get where you want to go.
Lets say you are Jeff Francis. Lets say you are a tall LHP who barely breaks 80mph as a SR in HS. What do you think your chances are of getting a BB scholarship or even a look from a US college BB program ? I'm not sure if Jeff marketed himself but I do know that no US college coach gave him a second look.
If you think there is some kind of gage to judge talent I would love to see one.
Only a fool would sit back and wait for a BB god to find them.
What successful company doesn't market their product even when they are on top of the pile ?
How can anyone not see the value of marketing your player. Yes there are players and situations where you may not have to market a player. Yes there are situations where players get schools they want to attend make them an offer. May not need to market.
For the rest marketing is mandatory. It may be showcasing, top travel team etc but direct contact with colleges that you like is a great way to get where you want to go.
Lets say you are Jeff Francis. Lets say you are a tall LHP who barely breaks 80mph as a SR in HS. What do you think your chances are of getting a BB scholarship or even a look from a US college BB program ? I'm not sure if Jeff marketed himself but I do know that no US college coach gave him a second look.
If you think there is some kind of gage to judge talent I would love to see one.
Only a fool would sit back and wait for a BB god to find them.
What successful company doesn't market their product even when they are on top of the pile ?
quote:question: what if what sets your son apart is a skill more refined and harder to see.. say an exceptional batting eye... patience at the plate.. incredibly low to non existent strike outs.. high OBP?
Thats a good question. I'm interested to hear others' answers.
These types of things don't often show up in one viewing of a player and it is commonly (I think) a source of 'fretting' by parents. Sometimes these extras pay off when a player just gets a chance.
I think one thing that can help with a player that fits your description is an advocate. A coach, scout...someone highly respected that is familiar with the player and can talk with the next level up (e.g. college coaches) and convince them that the player brings other dimensions with his game.
Those 'advocates' can sometimes be hard to find. Great HS coaches, established and respected summer coaches, established scouts.
quote:question: what if what sets your son apart is a skill more refined and harder to see.. say an exceptional batting eye... patience at the plate.. incredibly low to non existent strike outs.. high OBP?
Unfortunately, college recruiters will rarely get to see a player for a long enough period of time/games to appreciate those skills. Those aspects can be communicated by a HS or Summer/Travel coach.
The college recruiter likely will have to see something in the players skills or athleticism that he likes in order for him pursue the next level of questions about how he plays the games in the way you are describing.
With that said, the skills or athleticism won't need to be the same in the eyes of a mid to lower level DI, DII or DIII coach as contrasted with a major DI program.
Fungo, as usual, is so accurate in his comments. Talent must be developed and present before marketing is very useful. Providing a player with a lot of exposure and marketing when he does not yet have the skills to compete is a questionable allocation of resources, in my view.
quote:Originally posted by justbaseball:quote:question: what if what sets your son apart is a skill more refined and harder to see.. say an exceptional batting eye... patience at the plate.. incredibly low to non existent strike outs.. high OBP?
Thats a good question. I'm interested to hear others' answers.
These types of things don't often show up in one viewing of a player and it is commonly (I think) a source of 'fretting' by parents. Sometimes these extras pay off when a player just gets a chance.
I think one thing that can help with a player that fits your description is an advocate. A coach, scout...someone highly respected that is familiar with the player and can talk with the next level up (e.g. college coaches) and convince them that the player brings other dimensions with his game.
Those 'advocates' can sometimes be hard to find. Great HS coaches, established and respected summer coaches, established scouts.
Just... you have hit my nail on its head! Yes I do fret. I know I am his dad but his approach is light years ahead of other kids his age. We have worked tirelessly on his plate approach because I was building on his greatest talent.
I feel like he will have strong advocates when we reach the higher level of showcase ball in his organization.. his skill set will be competitive when he arrives at the summer of his junior year but even in his organization there are other catchers at this point that you would "pick out of the lineup" and he will be 6ft tall 175 by that time.
I don't understand why parents fret over the future. Why not take each game one at a time ? I have seen so many players who look like the next coming and they go no where. I have seen players invited to MLB scouting Bureau and they go nowhere.
Trying to see the future is a waste of mental energy.
Trying to see the future is a waste of mental energy.
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
I don't understand why parents fret over the future.
Simple. Human nature. Asking parents not to fret would be like asking the tide to stop coming in.
Maybe they should put more energy into planning the future.
quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Maybe they should put more energy into planning the future.
We put everything we have into it bobble and we plan.. hence the question. If he were Josh Hamilton in training wheels I would not be posting.
I understand that but all your fretting takes away from the experience and makes no difference in the outcome.
Jeff Francis is a great examkple a player who amde it big in MLB signing multi million dollar deals. He couldn't get a US college coach to look at him. According to Coach Whitely at The University of British Columbia he worked his tail off and developed a 90+ mph fast ball.
It's simple. Fretting won't help one bit.
Jeff Francis is a great examkple a player who amde it big in MLB signing multi million dollar deals. He couldn't get a US college coach to look at him. According to Coach Whitely at The University of British Columbia he worked his tail off and developed a 90+ mph fast ball.
It's simple. Fretting won't help one bit.
quote:I understand that but all your fretting takes away from the experience and makes no difference in the outcome.
I agree with this.BUT, I did it as well.It just comes with the territory for most.I will say I wish I hadn't so much.It really does take away from the moment.Some of us parents have players that are not the highly rated players that will get 50 schools looking at them.But what I learned most aren't.
Sometimes between HS and first year of college players can really develop and soar.Just be patient.
Always keep in mind Junior college, if not getting the looks they want.
I will say this once interest is there you will no doubt know.Coaches all talk and they go after the same players.
quote:Originally posted by gonefishin:quote:Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
I don't understand why parents fret over the future.
Simple. Human nature. Asking parents not to fret would be like asking the tide to stop coming in.
I have to agree with BHD's opinion on this one, but sometimes it's easier to look back than look ahead. That's why I am a big advocate of trying to enjoy today and not fretting about tomorrow because there are so many things you have no control over. And one of it is how your son matures and develops, physically and mentally.
We also tend to look at our players when they are younger as being far ahead of others, yet as pointed out things change over time, those that are light years ahead sometimes find themselves light years behind as they mature and everyone "catches up".
I'll give you a good example. Matt Latos, I watched pitch when he was in HS, many times, he was good but not that good. Watching him pitch in 9th, 10th grade, you would never suspect he would be where he is today. So BHD is correct, things change.
There is a reality in all of this, as pointed out by Fanofgame. Most players aren't the next Josh Hamilton, they are very few of them out there, but there is a lot of talent out there you do have to compete with, but yu should compete on the level of your skill. Not every coach is looking for the next Josh Hamilton to play for him. In college recruiting, coaches are looking for players that are coachable, team players, good students. Yes the top programs are looking for the top prospects, but not everyone they give opportunities are those guys, because there is only so many of them to go around. To many coaches the players approach at the plate or their velocity may or may not matter.
Attend good reliable showcases to evaluate talent, attend milb try outs (scouts are always refering coaches about players they have seen), and above else try to enjoy what you can when you can, not worry about the future.
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I have to agree with BHD's opinion on this one, but sometimes it's easier to look back than look ahead. That's why I am a big advocate of trying to enjoy today and not fretting about tomorrow because there are so many things you have no control over. And one of it is how your son matures and develops, physically and mentally.
We also tend to look at our players when they are younger as being far ahead of others, yet as pointed out things change over time, those that are light years ahead sometimes find themselves light years behind as they mature and everyone "catches up".
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I agree, very good points TPM! I'm kicking back here in my hotel in Georgia, while my son and his buddies are running around having a great time, and it made me think back. I had a conversation with another "Travelball Dad" a couple of years ago that had gone through the journey with his older son, and was now much more relaxed the second time around with his youngest. Those of us on the journey for the first time tend to seek advice from those that have already been on this ride! Not only did my friend point out the physical and mental maturation process, but he also acknowledged other outside influences...girlfriends (sometimes early pregnancy issues), drugs/alcohol, hanging with wrong crowd, etc...you never know what the future holds? BUT, we all want what's best for our kids now...and in the future.
The advice we get from you and others on this site is the reason why so many people come on here to visit. Some people post, but many people come on here just to read and learn. It's helped me tremendously, I've received good advice...but honestly, I'm still learning...so I'll keep visiting!
I have to agree with BHD's opinion on this one, but sometimes it's easier to look back than look ahead. That's why I am a big advocate of trying to enjoy today and not fretting about tomorrow because there are so many things you have no control over. And one of it is how your son matures and develops, physically and mentally.
We also tend to look at our players when they are younger as being far ahead of others, yet as pointed out things change over time, those that are light years ahead sometimes find themselves light years behind as they mature and everyone "catches up".
[/QUOTE]
I agree, very good points TPM! I'm kicking back here in my hotel in Georgia, while my son and his buddies are running around having a great time, and it made me think back. I had a conversation with another "Travelball Dad" a couple of years ago that had gone through the journey with his older son, and was now much more relaxed the second time around with his youngest. Those of us on the journey for the first time tend to seek advice from those that have already been on this ride! Not only did my friend point out the physical and mental maturation process, but he also acknowledged other outside influences...girlfriends (sometimes early pregnancy issues), drugs/alcohol, hanging with wrong crowd, etc...you never know what the future holds? BUT, we all want what's best for our kids now...and in the future.
The advice we get from you and others on this site is the reason why so many people come on here to visit. Some people post, but many people come on here just to read and learn. It's helped me tremendously, I've received good advice...but honestly, I'm still learning...so I'll keep visiting!