FOR THOSE WHO LIKE IT SOFT---WAKE UP !!!!!!

TR - Does baseball ever reach a level where we parents stop griping?

I don't think I've been around it yet. Maybe its just a part of the great American game?

Nowadays I dont' think it ever stops--- I hear stories regarding parents physically attacking coaches at college and universities simple becuase they did not agree with how the coach was using their "child" !!!!

And it is not just in baseball !!!!!

Players with known "baggage" get dropped from the radar screen real quickly

TR

I just want to say I think pretty much all college coaches are too tough on us. If he thinks I should be getting out of bed at 5 a.m. to go on a 5-mile run ...

OH, you were talking about tough on my kid. Never mind.

Run him 'til he breakfast is a sidewalk memory.

"Trouble." Begins with "TR."

We know you like to stir the pot, Tom!

PAMOM

Not stirring--Just the facts maam--nothing but the facts !!!!

Let me tell you, I'am old school and proud of it. My HS Football coach would probably be put in jail today if he were still coaching. But let me tell he knew how to make us tough and win ball games. He fed us salt tablets, NO water on the practice field and we practiced in the hot & humid Virginia heat twice a day until school started. NO water, the only water we got during games was at half time using our hands to scoop it out of the spigot in the locker room. He had an assistant who walked around with a broom that the handle had been shortened and the bottom taped up with athletic tape, you got out of line you got your rear end lifted up off of the ground promply. We had to piggy back our team mates up and down this big hill, Let me tell you it was tough as H***. But I survived it and a better person for it. Do I advocate coaches hurting players?, absolutly NOT. Do I think kids today are too soft, affrimative.

My opinion...

CV

TR, you are right......most kids become soft because of parents coming to their rescue....as a matter of habit, usually.

TR,
Gosh darn it. Why'd you have to go and wake me up? I li ..zzzzz...

TR

AMEN!

cvsting---

NO WATER?! That is just plain STUPID, among other more appropriate adjectives. Good thing no one died under his watch...did they?

In the age of Korey Stringer, some morons still defend coaches who are brain dead.

Christ.

PAMOM

When I played it was the same-- salt tablets before the game--water only at breaks--no bottles being passed into the dugout or bench area by "doting" parents and God forbid you brought food into the dugout

Yes the times have changed--for the better --I am not quite sure

We only got water at breaks and we didn't get salt pills. Modern athletic training has made things better and safer.

But the point remains the same: Many of today's athletes are babied through the high school years, by coaches but far more by parents and hangers-on, so to speak.

The speed, pace and intensity of the game goes way up in college. And TR give out a warning to those fortunate to stay in the game.

Congratulations, but you ain't seen nothing yet.

It's a warning well heeded.

TR,

You are correct about the kid's in the USA being soft. That is why so many Latin players are making it to the MLB. They are tough kids that take on the challange of hard work. Another plus for them is they are drafted at 16 and have no reason to return home. Even living with 2 or 3 other players in very small living quaters is better than what they have at home.

When my son was in 8th grade he was lucky to have a young and energetic coach with lots to offer...

<When my Dad coached at UMaine he had assembled a coaching binder, filled with information he used to teach his team. The ss on the last team he coached copied the material in the binder for his own use as he started out in the coaching ranks. When my son was old enough to start playing call he sent me a copy of the binder>.....

We passed the binder on to this young coach at the middle school and going through it we chuckled at a few pieces of info in it.....
One of them was this:
Stay away from water...If you are in shape you will not need it!

TR,
I agree kids have to get tougher and parents need to let them grow up. But for all of you old school types, here is alittle info of the necessity of water. If you are thrusty, your already 20% dehydrated. The average body is reduced in efficiency 25% by losing 1 1/2 quarts of water, and during strenuous activity in hot weather this much can be perspired in an hour. Salt tablets only replace sodium chloride not water. The rule of thumb for activities like hiking and cycling is drink and drink often.

Ball players should bring their own or have the coach supply it no argument with that.

Also, if you've ever experience dehydration to the point of serious fatige, your not a better person for it. Hopefully a smater person to never let it happen again.

Jazzman

You did not read my post--salt tablets before the game and water at breaks

TR,
I did read your post and my point is that in athletic activities hydration is essential and water often is the only way to maintain proper hydration. All the other sports drinks will not maintain hydration better than water. Watch any sport on TV today and you see athletes drinking all the time. Over the years we have learned more about the body, nutritioin and what it takes to perform at its peak athletic levels.

Too much water can lead to other problems--cramping etc

Yes that can happen, but the flip side is worse.

Dehydration and Prehydration are essential to athletic performance. It is fact and not up for dispute.

Optimizing Hydration
By DOUGLAS J. CASA, Ph.D., ATC, FACSM
Assistant professor and director of athletic training education at the University of Connecticut (Storrs, CT)

During the Spring of 2000 the National Athletic Trainers' Association released a Position Statement titled Fluid Replacement for Athletes.1 This document provides extensive recommendations for all levels of athletics and six key concepts of the position statement are highlighted below:

1. Educate athletes and fellow staff about hydration process
The perpetual struggle to keep athletes properly hydrated is much easier to accomplish when the athletes and staff are aware of the role that proper hydration plays in optimizing athletic performance and minimizing the incidence of heat illness. Also, all athletes should become active participants in their own hydration process and be educated about monitoring hydration status and encouraged to rehydrate based on individual needs.

2. Individualize the rehydration process

1. Athletes lose fluids via sweat and urine at different rates for many reasons and thus should replace fluids based on individual requirements. Determine athletes? sweat rate if possible by this calculation for a range of environmental conditions, practices and competitions.

Sweat Rate =
(pre-exercise body weight
- post-exercise body weight
+ fluid intake
- urine volume)
________________________
÷ exercise time in hours

2. Athletes choose to drink different amounts and should be encouraged to monitor how much they drink to be sure it matches the amount that is being lost.

3. The confines of different sports and positions dictates how an athlete optimizes the rehydration process based on individual access to fluids.

3. Drink appropriate amounts before, during and after exercise
Pre-Exercise

Approximately 17 to 20 oz, 2 to 3 hours before activity
Consume another 7 to 10 oz after the warm-up (10 to 15 minutes before activity)
During Exercise

Approximately 28 to 40 oz every hour of play (7 to 10 oz every 10 to 15 minutes)
Develop a hydration process that includes drinking based on fluid needs (see above), monitoring fluid intake and having a plan based on the confines of sport
Post Exercise

Encourage athletes to rapidly replace lost fluids (sweat and urine) within two hours after activity to enhance recovery by drinking 20 to 24 oz for every pound body weight lost through sweat
4. Choosing a beverage
Provide the optimal **** rehydration solution (water, carbohydrates, electrolytes) before, during and after exercise. The ideal fluid replacement solution should include approximately 70 to 1266 mg sodium/8 oz and 14 to 17g carbohydrates/8 oz (6%-7% carbohydrate solution).

5. Make sure fluids are accessible and cooled
Hydration is much more likely to be maintained if the fluids are conveniently located for the athletes to drink during practice and rest periods. Keep individual containers on ice in a cooler so an athlete can access it during practice and increase fluid intake.

6. Recognize dehydration
All coaches, athletes and medical staff need to recognize the common signs and symptoms associated with dehydration. They include:

Thirst
Irritability
Headache
Weakness
Dizziness
Cramps
Chills
Vomiting
Nausea
Head or neck heat sensations
Decreased performance
General discomfort
Be aware that an athlete will likely only exhibit a few of these signs and symptoms.

1Casa, D. et al. J Athl Train 35(2):212-224, 2000

Jazzman, I am not a doctor and don't pretend to be one, but your comment about "nothing hydrates better than water" is somewhat irresponsible and a little incorrect.

-------------------------------------------------

For years, heath care and fitness professionals have stressed the importance of fluid intake and replacement in preventing dehydration. Therefore, most health conscience individuals are educated about dehydration and cases of dehydration have decreased in recent years. Yet, in some cases, people may take dehydration prevention a bit too far and unintentionally drink too much water. Drinking an excessive surplus of water can lead to over-hydration or hyponatremia. Although hyponatremia is rare and seen primarily in serious endurance athletes, such as marathon runners, it can be dangerous and fitness enthusiasts should be aware of the condition.

The medical dictionary defines hyponatremia as an abnormally low concentration of sodium in the blood. Hyponatremia is also known as “water intoxication.” Sodium (salt and chloride) is an electrolyte, which helps the body distribute water. This is essential for water balance and for your muscles and organs to function effectively. Electrolytes are lost through sweat. When exercising, our body temperature rises and we sweat to keep cool. The more we sweat, the more sodium lost. Sweat loss varies from as little as 16 ounces to over three quarts during each hour of exercise (Gatorade Sports and Science Institute). For this reason, it is important to replace lost body fluids during and after exercise. To completely replace these fluids, you must not only replace water, but also sodium and chloride. Those who consume excessive amounts of water after exercise can further deplete sodium and chloride levels, leading to electrolyte depletion and possibly over-hydration
--------------------------------------------------

Without sodium in your body, your body cannot absorb water the way it needs to. Last year a Fraternity decided to be funny and at initiations they had the kids drink water instead of beer or whisky, thinking they would be ok. Well, one kid died of hyponatremia, he basically drowned himself in water.

Gatorade isn't just some sugary drink designed to simply taste better, it was developed by scientists at the University of Florida in a laboratory to solve this very problem of hydration and sodium replacement.

While hyponatremia usually only occurs in marathon runners or long distance event athletes (cyclists, triathalon), I would imagine practicing for 3 or 4 hours in the middle of texas or Florida in August or September would suffice.

If you eat properly before a game, there should be enough sodium in your body and water will usually suffice for a game, but some games are hotter and longer than others and some and not all athletes will have their bodies respond the same way.

TR, you are sooo right, especially at the academies. They are not mean, or hateful or even to a personal level...they are tough. There is no room for parent "input". But at the same time, the team is well run...win or lose. If you don't like the rules, the team run by the coaches, and hard work, don't come to the academies...I am not saying other places are not tough...but I know the academies are. I think baseball, of the three major sports, is still the most consistent at the college level because of this this type of mind set.

ahsbb

I know of kids who turned down scholarship offers when the coach described for them how he ran practice and they read his team rules.

Or maybe it was the parents who turned it down ............. Little Johnny might get sick or hurt

Admittedly, hydration knowledge is better now than in the early 70's. We practiced in the thick August Blacksburg, Virginia heat and the trainers would spread a plastic sheet and dump out ice cubes-we each got two. Knowledge has changed as we had a doctor present every day and a training staff, but the state of hydration knowledge wasn't what it is today. Gatorade had just been developed and was sold mainly in cans.

"Back in the day", coaching was different, harsher to be sure, and none of us minded, so from that respect, things may be "softer" today, but I see our high school ball players working their rears off, in intense workouts, and they certainly aren't "coddled". The "blue" language may be somewhat milder than in years gone by, and as CV said, some things coaches did "back then" would put them in jail, but they did it trying to improve their players, not because they were sadistic nutcases.

College baseball is hard work, and it's all year long, and as TR suggests, those that can't or won't commit to doing the work will wash out. My son will at times grumble (to me) about whether he thinks some particular drill might be helpful or not to a college pitcher, but he always acknolwedges that it would be hard for anyone to work themselves to the level that the college coaches push them and that he has never been as well conditioned as he is now.

It's called "the next level" for more than one reason.

iowakiddad

Thanx for the compliment--it sure says a lot about you and your thinking

(another newbie poster with the name calling)

Go back and read my posts--I never said limitation--I said too much can be no good.

TR, my hat off to you.

Something I keep hearing this summer.....

The Coach who recruited me last year is not the same guy who is on the field with me this year.

Across the board, all divisions.

Perhaps someone can speak to the regularity with which "personality" changes from one phase
<recruitment> to the next phase <first year on the field>.....

CHill

This is why it is advisable for a player to see the team play a few games where he can see the coaches in action before, during and after the game.

All too many players go in blind not knowing how the coaches are in practice and on the field.

Chill---

You know I'm NOT going there.......

While I can agree with y'all that the coach doesn't seem the same as when he recruited your sons.......just as often the shoe is on the other foot; the player isn't the same kid that the coach recruited.