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Force Play/Run Scoring Question

R rwulf10+ posts
Situation - Bases loaded, one out. Ground ball to shortstop. Runner on second retreats to second base, even though forced to third. Shortstop tags runner while he is still standing on second (even though he is forced to third) and then steps on second. For good measure, he chases the runner coming to second (forced from first) and tags him. Meanwhile, runner from third scores. Everyone leaves the field for the inning change.

Umpires rule that the runner that was tagged while occupying second (even though he was forced) was not out after being tagged, because he was on the base. Tagging the base (or tagging the runner) coming to second was the second out. They ruled the third out because all of the remaining players abandoned their bases (thinking it was a double play), but that the run from third counted.

I protested, saying that it was a double play. The runner on second was not entitled to the base, so he was out when tagged, whether on the base or not. Subsequently tagging the base to force the runner from first completed the double play and the run should not have counted.

We then came back and won the game 10-6, so I removed my protest. But, I still want to make sure of the right call. What do the experts say?
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C cccsdad100+ posts
the only force that was removed was runner going home. It's a double play with neither forced runner reaching the next base safely, no run scores. Now had the runner from first reached 2nd then been put out after he reached 2nd ( say he overan the bag then was out before he could get back to 2nd), the run could have counted as long as it crossed home before the last out was made.
Michael S. TaylorMichael S. Taylor1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by rwulf:
Thanks for the answers. This is what I expected.

BTW - In regards to the "Him saying you have to tag the runner makes no sense." comment: I didn't mean to say that the umpire required our player to tag the runner. I was just stating what our player did and how the umpires interpreted it.


My mistake, I was thinking the umpire was saying the tag of the R1 was the force not the tag of second. Basicly he smoked almost the whole play.
C cccsdad100+ posts
I had an ump allow a run to score with two outs becuase the first baseman tagged the batter/runner there for in the eyes of this umpire it wasn't a force, and yes the batter/runner was put out before he reached first base. He hit a dribbler up the line, the first baseman ran in, fielded it and tagged the him for teh 3rd out.

The ump said it wasn't a force since he tagged him and the run crossed the plate before the out. I advised the umpire the force doesn't have to do with how the out is effected, it's because the runner is FORCED to advance.

He let the run stand, we ended up losing the game by one run. Yuck.
Last edited by cccsdad
Jimmy03Jimmy031,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by cccsdad:
I had an ump allow a run to score with two outs becuase the first baseman tagged the batter/runner there for in the eyes of this umpire it wasn't a force, and yes the batter/runner was put out before he reached first base. He hit a dribbler up the line, the first baseman ran in, fielded it and tagged the him for teh 3rd out.

The ump said it wasn't a force since he tagged him and the run crossed the plate before the out. I advised the umpire the force doesn't have to do with how the out is effected, it's because the runner is FORCED to advance.

He let the run stand, we ended up losing the game by one run. Yuck.


The reason the run shouldn't have counted has nothing to do with the play being a force situation. (And by rule, that play at first is not a force situation)

The rule states that the run doesn't count if the third out is made by the batter runner before touching first.
C cccsdad100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Jimmy03:
quote:
Originally posted by cccsdad:
I had an ump allow a run to score with two outs becuase the first baseman tagged the batter/runner there for in the eyes of this umpire it wasn't a force, and yes the batter/runner was put out before he reached first base. He hit a dribbler up the line, the first baseman ran in, fielded it and tagged the him for teh 3rd out.

The ump said it wasn't a force since he tagged him and the run crossed the plate before the out. I advised the umpire the force doesn't have to do with how the out is effected, it's because the runner is FORCED to advance.

He let the run stand, we ended up losing the game by one run. Yuck.


The reason the run shouldn't have counted has nothing to do with the play being a force situation. (And by rule, that play at first is not a force situation)

The rule states that the run doesn't count if the third out is made by the batter runner before touching first.


I didn't think I said it was a force, I thought I said

quote:
I advised the umpire the force doesn't have to do with how the out is effected, it's because the runner is FORCED to advance.


I wasn't referring to the batter, just a force play in general. Sorry I should have clarified.

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