Four-Year Guarantees Approved by NCAA

Agree. All it means is that they have committed the money. Doesn't guarantee playtime or a rooster spot. HC has the ability to do whatever he wants. Let's hope it all works out for the good. I was just saying it has happened although I'm told it's rare.

 

My 2013 was offered a 4 yr deal from a D1.  But, he chose a different school.

Son signed NLI and ASA (Athletics Scholarship Agreement from the school) on November 14, 2012.  I pulled out our copy of the NLI (Rev. 10/1/12) and paragraph 2, Financial Aid Requirement, stated that the institution must provide a written offer for the entire 2013-14 academic year from the institution named in the NLI. 

 

The ASA had the period of award as One Academic Year, and in a later paragraph stated, "This award is not automatically renewed."

I'm guessing the discussion with a coach on a 4 year guarantee flies like a wet mop. You're probably just opening the door to discussing why you couldn't keep your scholarship if you are playing to the ability they have already seen.

 

I can see how a 4 year guarantee might help a coach too with a kid who is a stud, wanna give him a big offer, and the family hesitates due to not being able to afford anything less than the original large percentage offer. 4 years guaranteed gives him no reason to not play there if he has the money locked up and he wants to be there. Just a matter of how bad the coach wants the player and willingness to accept the risk I guess.

I had parent tell me that 4 yr guarantee is legal per NCAA. I've heard different opinion from others who should be "in the know". It appears it is legal but just not often used. How often is 4 yr guarantee happening now?  Prevalent to one conference? one type of college?

2013 grad year was the first year for DI schools to designate on the NLI that the financial offer was for up to five years. Not sure how often ithappened in 2013, but my sons NLI ha it spelled out.

I know of a kid who is on my son collegiate summer team that was told by the HC at the yer end meeting that they did not want him back and to find another school. tha asked bout is 5 year scholly guarantee and they said that if he stayed that they would honor the financial aid, but would not play.

Just a reminder, just because it's in writing, doesn't mean your guaranteed play time. They can distill make life difficult so you leave. 

RFF, it is definitely true that not many schools have been offering four-year athletic scholarships so far.  Now that universities like Southern Cal and Indiana are coming out with "student-athlete bills of rights", they may become more common, but remains to be seen.  They have mostly been offered by DI schools in football and basketball, where the competition for the top recruits is the most publicized.  Won't change the fact that many coaches will try to convince athletes to leave if it's not working out, and athletes who aren't getting playing time will be looking elsewhere for a better opportunity.

       
       


Exactly.

As guarantees, they don't guarantee much. They don't guarantee a good baseball experience or playing time. They guarantee only that the money will be there if the player sticks it out. I don't think they offer much practical value to incoming freshmen, especially those with small scholarships, for the reasons Rick said.

They can offer value to transfer students who want assurance the new school will remain committed to them through the year-in-residence and who know their five year clock won't permit a second transfer. They have been used in transfer situations involving players leaving major conference schools for smaller D-1's.  A player who feels like he didn't get a fair look at his first school can be very receptive to evidence that the new school values him and will give him time to develop.

They may also have value to big scholarship prospects who don't want to be nudged into the pros after their junior year unless the timing is right for them. However, I haven't heard of them being used in this situation.

A nuance to be considered:  The coaches at schools whose general endowment funds allow for generous levels of need-based scholarship aid will sometimes dangle the prospect of need-based funds out there for 4 years rather than their much more precious athletic-based scholarships, which count against their limit of 11.7 (DI). I've seen instances of players and their families learning well after they're committed that the coaches were talking about need-based scholarships, making the player a recruited walk-on instead of one of the 27 on the roster receiving athletic scholarship assistance.

As a parent, i guess I don't care where the money came from. Money that was offered was money that did not come out of my son's (later) or my pocket. It has been said many times here that academic money is much more easily available. My son got a combination but the important thing for me was the total package.

I get the "money is money" point; but, if no athletic money is provided, that creates a much more precarious position for the player when the roster-thinning process takes place in many programs.

Exactly.  Anyone getting athletic aid is counted towards the roster limit (35), so it does the program no good, if they have to get down from, say, 40 to 35 at the end of the fall, to consider cutting a guy who's getting baseball money.  All the cuts are going to happen from among the guys who get no athletic aid.  Some might even be guys who would, but for this factor, have beaten out another player.

 

I would think any family sending their son to one of the pricier private universities, in particular, would want to at least ask for a four-year guarantee.  If your son is on a 40% ride at a $55,000/year school and you're shelling out $33,000/year net already, think how it would affect your budget to find out in late June that next year is going to cost you another $22,000 of your after-tax earnings.  (The same thing can happen at a public university, of course, but the dollar figures are not as severe.)  Many in that situation end up having to transfer, sit out a year, and hope to get re-recruited.

Thanks very much. I think I was able to glean what I need out of the replies!!!

Midlo,

 

That is a great point with regards to pricier private D1 schools and 4 year guarantees.  You are exactly right.  If a recruit has a some leverage that is a question that has to be asked.  The money is too significant not to ask. 

Prepster you make a very good point. Earlier this spring my son was scheduled to be a guaranteed walk on. He had academic money but no athletic. He had a remarkable 10 days, opened up his recruiting since he had other offers come his way and in the end, decided to stay at same school with very nice athletic money as well as academic. For me it was the additional money but, also, the fact that he was being recognitized as an athlete financially. My wife was very worried about "retaliation" from HC since he felt that my son had committed then reopened up, but in the end HC found athletic money for my son. My response to my wife was if they were that mad, they simply would have walked away. The fact that they came up with athletic money solidified his roster spot.So indeed you are absolutely correct.

 

Of course, it is now up to him to do well enough to get on teh field and to prove in years beyond that he deserves to keep that athletic money

Today's paper included a report that the University of Maryland is going to include 4-year guarantees in all of its scholarships in all sports from now on.

 

With any luck, this will be the first of many to follow, perhaps an indication that even in major conferences, there is a need to compete for players and to have concern for their security.

Just talked about this at a D1 camp this weekend with their recruiter.

The downfall is there will be less changeover and scholarships available from year to year. They haven't done it yet, as he mentioned the data of success or non-success is not there. Could change the ballgame.

Thoughts of going Juco and transferring later may need to be changed.

I really don't think JuCo transfers will be all that affected.

 

Most JuCo transfers are either treated as part of the incoming recruiting class of freshmen (just with less eligibility remaining), or are replacing guys who quit or transfer of their own volition.  I don't think their opportunities are that much a function of coaches handing other players their walking papers.

 

I realize it could happen here or there, it just doesn't strike me as statistically significant.

Note that Maryland's policy would still permit dismissal/revocation for instances of misconduct, coming up short academically, etc.  The player gets protection from the coach deciding he isn't worth as much money (or any money at all), from wholesale bloodlettings that sometimes accompany changes in coaches, and from upperclassmen getting reduced just because the program over-recruited in its incoming freshman class.  (Some of the higher profile programs bank on some of their signees going pro, then cover if they don't by reducing upper classmen's money at the last minute.)

Midlo dad, 2016 and I were explained basically the same thing fron HC at IU 3 weeks ago.Could be where the big ten is either going all around.

It would seem to me that the bar really has NOT been raised with this new ruling unless every other big name school follows UM's lead. I will believe it when I see it.

 

 

When my son was being recruited by St Mary's, coach Jedd Soto said his commitment lasted 4 years essentially for the same reason. He went on to tell us a story about one of his recruits who was scholarshiped in large part because of his speed. During this recruits freshman fall season he tore his ACL and was never as fast again. His movement was diminished to the point of never having played a single inning for the team, yet his scholarship was honored. He went on to say that the kid needed a 5th year to graduate, and it was covered as well.

 

As we were to find out from experience, a scholarship offer and/or guaranteed roster spot is only as good as a coaches word. Some coaches live up to their agreements even at the expense of the overall program, and others treat kids like a commodity by dumping them even if the kid gets hurt/ill.

My son was recruited by a top D1 last year as a transfer student with a guaranteed spring roster spot. He came down with strep throat in the beginning of fall ball, and the HC is famous/infamous for physically demanding conditioning. So right off the bat he was in the coaches doghouse. Then to make matters much worse, my son developed pneumonia and went from 217lbs to 185 lbs in short order. This coach called me up and said something I will never forget. He said "your son went from being projected to be in the middle of their rotation to the end of it. While he may still be able to make it back to where we originally projected him, I like winning too much to take a chance on that happening".

So needless to say that coach not only lack integrity, but had no empathy for what had happened to my son despite it being beyond his control. Yet I would note that this coach had his own kid get into serious trouble with the law, and as one might suspect, he did what he could to salvage his kids athletic college career. It just goes to show the opposite ends of the scale that reside within the college coaching ranks.

 

Sure it is a tough job for the coach who must balance winning (which equates to job security) to his own integrity as a man. Yet the Jedd Soto's of the world will always be respected for their integrity as men regardless of their success or failure on the field.

 

As to the main point of this thread, my son only has two years of eligibility left, but the coach at the school he transferred to guaranteed him two years of baseball scholarship money. I have no reason to doubt him, but you never know.

 

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Was your son a transfer with a bb scholarship or a walk on. 

Why did the coach have to call you and tell you those things?   Or did he cut your son and you had to call and ask why?

 

And finally, why did you have to give the info about the coaches son, not sure what that has to do with your son being cut.  

 

Seems to me as a transfer your son would have had plenty of opportunity to find out more info about this coach but it seems to have taken you by surprise.

 

 

 

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/s...-193905280--spt.html

 

South Carolina, not baseball yet, but supposedly working on baseball in the future

From the article above:

"......are classified as ''equivalency'' sports where coaches divide up a set number of scholarships among their roster, such as baseball having to spread 11.7 scholarships between up to three dozen players."

 

It would have been nice if the reporter knew that it was up to 27 players that the 11.7 needed to be spread, although 35 can be on the roster.  

 

Also, I found it interesting about the "weighted voting" among the 5 conferences for the 305 Div 1 schools.  

Can a coach with only 11.7 scholarships afford to be wrong handing out four year scholarships? I would imagine a kid not getting an opportunity to play would leave. But a four year guarantee could lend itself to coaching staffs doing whatever necessary to make an athlete's life miserable in order to drive him to quit. I can see where a guarantee would be appealing. Producing is a scholarship guarantee. Otherwise, does a player really want to be there?

No, not with DI baseball's restrictions on scholarships, he can't. Under the current structure, show me a coach who grants unvarying 4-year scholarships to every scholarship student, and I'll show you a coach whose program is losing too many games for him to keep his job about 3 years into the practice.

 

Too many players fall by the wayside and/or don't play up to original expectations to continue to fund their unproductive presence and have enough remaining in the 11.7-scholarship pool to continue to attract quality players into the program.

 

I wish it were otherwise, but, the combination of the requirements (11.7/27/35) is too limiting. Four-year guarantees may make more sense when every player receives a full scholarship and there are enough total scholarships to field a competitive team with high-performing players.