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Freshman playing Varsity

lsc59lsc59100+ posts
Many a post a few months ago discussed the large number of the 2006 "elite" players that would be moving up to the varsity level this year. At Downers Grove South, one freshman, the head varsity coaches son moved up to the sophomore level. He is deserving of the promotion though not considered one of the dominating players. He is lefty and I understand that he has been throwing fairly well. Two sophomore will be playing on the varsity squad.

CoachB25 stated that he has one freshman that is getting a "shot at winning a varsity spot".
Not sure if he played travel on a "select" or an "elite" team. I think some of the names of teams mentioned that had a number of players that would probably varsity ball as freshman would come from "elite" teams such as the Seminoles, DuPage D-Back, Sparks, and Clubbers among others. I know that DGS has at least one player from one of those teams. He did not move up.

Now that most team selections are complete, I wonder how many of the "elite" travel team freshman are playing varsity and what schools do they attend?
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Bulldog 19Bulldog 195,000+ posts
We had two move up last year as freshman and pitched a few times. One had played on a team that travelled quite a bit playing at places like OK State, Kansas, those types of places and doing a lot of travelling. The other played on a "select" team but I dont think it was a team where they travelled more than an hour or two for games.

Year before that we also had two move up to varsity. One pitched some and he played on the Jr. Legion team the summer before. I dressed, but only got into a game once and that was to pinch run. I had played in what most would probably consider a rec league the summer before making trips just outside of town to play.

So, out of 2 years and 4 freshmen on varsity there was only the 1 who had played at what would most likely be considered an "elite" level.
Baseball14Baseball14100+ posts
I don't think its so much the ability of the player as it is the "necessity" of the team. My older son was moved up to Varsity on the eve of his first Freshman game because of a injury. He ended up leading the team in batting average and breaking the schools hits record as a Freshman that year. My younger son, who is further along offensively as well as physically has already been told that they do not like to move Freshman up unless they absolutely have too. So I really think it is a team by team issue and not so much the abilities of the players.....
K karlsdad10+ posts
In MHO, Freshman don't belong on varsity teams. Freshman year, sports teams are for social reasons as much as competition. (I wouldn't want my 14 year old son hanging with 17-18 year old teammates.) Let them play with their classmates/friends. Half way into the season, if dominating and need challenge, move them up to Sophmore level.

If a Freshman is playing on varsity right from the start, the program must be extemely weak with very limited depth or the coach has wilted under the pressure put on by an overbearing, selfish parents looking to promote their kids over the good of the program.
B bballdad1954500+ posts
You may conclude that a varsity team that brings up a freshman player does not have depth, but to say it is because the parents influenced the coach is a statement from thin air. What high school caoch would put a kid on the varsity team to appease a parent who wants to "promote their kid over the good of the program"? Sounds like you have an agenda that is not too hidden.
B bballdad1954500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by bballdad1954:
You may conclude that a varsity team that brings up a freshman player does not have depth, but to say it is because the parents influenced the coach is a statement from thin air. What high school coach would put a kid on the varsity team to appease a parent who wants to "promote their kid over the good of the program"? Sounds like you have an agenda that is not too hidden.
play baseballplay baseball1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by bballdad1954:
quote:
Originally posted by bballdad1954:
You may conclude that a varsity team that brings up a freshman player does not have depth, but to say it is because the parents influenced the coach is a statement from thin air. What high school coach would put a kid on the varsity team to appease a parent who wants to "promote their kid over the good of the program"? Sounds like you have an agenda that is not too hidden.


bballdad1954:

Your kidding or else you are dreaming. It happens. Particularly when the baseball coach is not a baseball guy.
Last edited by play baseball
D DiamondFan100+ posts
It is generally very difficult and rare that a freshman can play and contribute on varsity. As good as many (mostly parents and travel coaches) feel these kids are, they are just not on a level yet physicaly or talent wise to play at a decent high schools program level. They are truly better off playing everyday at the freshman or sophomore level to continue to develop. That being said there will be exceptions to this, but that is not the norm.
B bballdad1954500+ posts
Diamondfan, there were only two kids mentioned that will be playing. I think that shows that it indeed the exception. Of course parents have higher opinions of their kids, they love thier kids and see the best in them. What I don't understand is why there is the feeling that the parents can pick the high school team and what levels their kids will play on. I feel a coach that would let parents oick the team is a greater exception than freshman who can help out the varsity with their ability.
S sulltiger24500+ posts
Play baseball

I cant imagine any parent having that kind of leverage over the varsity coach to the point that the parent can force his kid onto the varsity squad whether deserving or not . That would turn out to be a situation that is not good for all parties involved , including player . It would seem to me that there would be a negative reaction by the rest of the team toward their new freshman teammate .

Parents need to realize what the repercussions could be due to their actions and how it may affect their kid. Its okay to have a conversation with the coach before the season to see where you stand . If you dont agree , then i would consider transferring , not pushing the issue with the coach .JMO
K karlsdad10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by bballdad1954:
You may conclude that a varsity team that brings up a freshman player does not have depth, but to say it is because the parents influenced the coach is a statement from thin air. What high school caoch would put a kid on the varsity team to appease a parent who wants to "promote their kid over the good of the program"? Sounds like you have an agenda that is not too hidden.


Wow, because I brought up the fact that parents could "potentially" have influence, I have an agenda? Slow your roll! Believe me, I have no agenda on that matter. Maybe it's you who has an agenda? Don't be naive, parents can have influence over a program.
K karlsdad10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by styles2310:
karlsdad- the freshmen could be just that good...... i wouldnt consider my school to be a weak team with no depth and there was a kid that was a freshmen playing varsity and he did just fine


You are correct, there are always exceptions. A kid could be an "older" freshman (held back in grammar school) or just maybe matured a little earlier than other kids, it happens. My point was that in most cases a Freshman plays varsity because there is a need on the varsity level. If there is a need on the varsity level, it is most likely due to a lack of depth in a "weaker" program. Again, there are exceptions!
play baseballplay baseball1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by sulltiger24:
It would seem to me that there would be a negative reaction by the rest of the team toward their new freshman teammate .

Parents need to realize what the repercussions could be due to their actions and how it may affect their kid.


I absolutely agree with you.

It's sad what some parents do "to" their kids in the name of trying to do "for" their kids.
B baseball200910+ posts
I disagree with the fact a parent can have that much of an influence on a High school coach. What kind of High School would allow this to happen. Maybe the parents are $$Boosters? I still don't agree with a parent able to talk a coach into taking a freshman on a varsity team. If a freshman player moves up and plays sophmore or varsity, the only reason should be because of TALENT and that Talent fits into the program the Coach is running (not the parents)
Mike FMike F100+ posts
High school baseball programs are as individual as the coaches who run them. I am 100% sure that there are programs where the players' parents have zero influence on the coach's decisions just as I'm sure there are programs where politics play a part.

In big schools, it would be rare for freshman to play varsity ball, while in small schools, there may be times that a frosh is one of the best players in the school and is badly needed for the team to compete.

As to the parental influence thing, here's a hypothetical question. Would you feel parental influence if you were the varsity basketball coach at Loyola and Michael Jordan's two sons were coming through? You might. What if Michael, for his convenience, wanted both boys playing varsity when the young one was a freshman?

Just a thought... noidea

Mike F
Baseball622Baseball62210+ posts
soxnole,

I really do agree with you. I started on varsity as a freshman and albeit at a small school but I imagine it isn't much different for a 15 year old to fit in with 17 and 18 year olds at a big school. It really does depend on the player. I was able to acclumate to the situation pretty well, but there was another player on our team who had all the athletic ability and skills to play up as a freshman but he just didn't feel comfortable and wasn't able to play up to his ability. You really have to have the right frame of mind to play on varsity as a freshman, and to excel at it. It is not an easy thing to do.
R Ratboy100+ posts
Something else to keep in mind is that there are Freshman players in many schools that could play varsity, but that doesn't also mean that they should.

Scott Sexton at Oak Lawn started there as a frosh, and maybe he could've started at any number of other schools -- but he probably wouldn't have.
In that area alone:
* Richards had Whitney and Kyle something (signed with St. Joseph).
* Reavis had Mueller starting as a soph - and he lost out on varsity time as a frosh because they had 3 capable SS (the older Mueller, Lucas, and a kid named Joy).
* St. Laurence had a kid playing that might have been all-league
* Marist had a handful of kids on that side of the infield that were all-conference
* Brother Rice had a kid from the Berwyn Bulldogs

My point is that he had the talent (at least offensively) to play for all of those schools, but wouldn't have been the varsity starter because they didn't need him to be.
deucedocdeucedoc500+ posts
Not argueing your point but are you saying that a kid is locked down to one position? You just said at least Offensively he could have.
So if your a varsity coach that has a kid who as you stated could hit at that level you wouldnt make an adjustment to better your teams offense. I think most would. I saw a couple 8th graders last Fall who were in 18u tournys and more then holding their own. One was catching 87-89 and hitting off of Redmond. I think there are some that can and others who shouldnt.
K karlsdad10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Mike F:
High school baseball programs are as individual as the coaches who run them. I am 100% sure that there are programs where the players' parents have zero influence on the coach's decisions just as I'm sure there are programs where politics play a part.

In big schools, it would be rare for freshman to play varsity ball, while in small schools, there may be times that a frosh is one of the best players in the school and is badly needed for the team to compete.

As to the parental influence thing, here's a hypothetical question. Would you feel parental influence if you were the varsity basketball coach at Loyola and Michael Jordan's two sons were coming through? You might. What if Michael, for his convenience, wanted both boys playing varsity when the young one was a freshman?

Just a thought... noidea

Mike F


Best post on this subject so far! Kudos to Mike F!!!!!!!!
K karlsdad10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by deucedoc:
Not argueing your point but are you saying that a kid is locked down to one position? You just said at least Offensively he could have.
So if your a varsity coach that has a kid who as you stated could hit at that level you wouldnt make an adjustment to better your teams offense. I think most would. I saw a couple 8th graders last Fall who were in 18u tournys and more then holding their own. One was catching 87-89 and hitting off of Redmond. I think there are some that can and others who shouldnt.


8th Graders holding their own against U18's? I'm not doubting what you claim and not trying to argue but I find that hard to believe. How many of the U18's were actually 17-18 year olds? What was the quality of the tournament? Who were these kids, where were they from (TX, FL etc) or local kids? Maybe Barry Bond's has started a youth travel team!
R Ratboy100+ posts
Deuce - sticking with Scott Sexton, since I cited him to begin with ... at another school he could've switched positions, but at Reavis he wouldn't have been at 3B (older Mueller slid over), or 2B (White .. at MVCC now) , 1B was occupied by the designated bat, C was Rojas (at MVCC now) or Gotsch (at St. Francis) and I don't know how he would've been in the outfield.
DH was usually the pitcher because it would've been an everyday player.

I think my example might speak more to Coach Erickson than any particular player -- he strikes me as a guy that wants kids to play as much as possible and doesn't waste kids on the varsity bench.

Of course, I probably picked a bad example because Sexton can hit.

KarlsDad: I have seen local IL kids entering their Frosh season (summer between 8th and 9th grade) play on 18U teams and hold their own. When you get down to it, at that age 17U/18U = Varsity; so it isn't too hard to imagine.
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